Overpaid teachers?

[RoadKill]

America was not founded on Socialism.

If you want to pay for your childs education and pay exhorbadant salaries,...go ahead. That is free enterprize (the basis of our government).

I'm no flaming conservative nor am I some bleeding heart, so my opinions are based on Constitutional Law and the fact that as a taxpayer and a product of the public school system and I have strong opinions based on personal experiences.

I grew up poor and in our school system the "less than fortunate" were not encouraged to persue higher education, but rather find work in the auto plants and supplier industries.

My wife grew up in the more affuent side of Dearborn and there was a distinct dispairity in teaching styles and career and professional development for the students.

My parents would have liked to send my brother and I to a private school or at least cross-town.

We payed dearly for our daughters education and we would sacrifice again if we had to. However the pay that is given as compensation to inept teachers and the salaries of the school administrators is sinful to say the least.

I firmly believe that any presidential candidate worth even worth listening to should address the abolition of Socialized Education. How many of the people on this board want Socialized Healthcare? It would be a start a fixing our nations economic problems as well and as a disinsentive for illegal immigration. Paying to educate those that refuse to learn is just throwing taxpayer money away.

Like I said before FLAME AWAY!

  
 

I agree that you should pay for your own child's education. But I have seen some smart (uneducated or even self educated) children come from parents too stupid to count 1 dollar bills. I dont mind kicking in a little $ for them to have a chance. If I chip in for that child,why not yours too?  The problem is when I chip in and some teacher that can not spell education gets 10% of it and school admin spends the rest on their own salaries and new equipment for the football team instead of learning tools!   Revamp a few socialist systems we have and they CAN work! Especially with the amount of money being spent (Misappropriated) already.   Take out the middle man and the teachers will get better.

Taking the feds out and taking it back to a local or state level would be a start at reducing the greedy palms that are getting greased along the way.

[Tony Z]

Nobody bitches when a truck driver pulls down 80 grand (nor should they, odds are you are underpaid no matter what you do) but teachers seem to be favorite targets of certain groups. 80 grand is NOT a lot of money in 2011. It's just not. Are there teachers who suck? Sure (though I must honestly say that I can't recall meeting one recently). But the good ones are worth their weight in gold.

But even so, what's so wrong with getting a good education, applying that education in a noble field and then earning a decent living wage doing it, maybe even enough so that your own spouse can raise your children without having to work full time themselves? If that concept bothers you then you should re-examine your values because they're not really compatible with the American dream.

Or maybe some people are just jealous because some other people made something of their lives and don't toil at something they hate.

I have nothing against the teaching profession, and have no problem with their pay scale. What bothers me are the ones that look for accolades. Personally, I believe that anyone has the right to make however much money, in whatever way they want.

The only reason I posted to this thread in the first place is because I am tired of hearing the "woe is me", and "I'm entitled" bullcrap!. Teaching is a noble field, and should be looked upon as such.

Just stop complaining about forever being "overworked and underpaid".

[RTaz]

has anyone even watched the video ?   

[RoadKill]

has anyone even watched the video ?   

I'm sorry RTaz. I never took the time to respond to it. All I can say is 

I had a TON of crappy teachers and I can not even remember most of their names.  One of the great ones left us Dec. 9th . I wonder who is gonna fill his shoes...or if it can even be done ?

James Coleman an 8th grade language arts teacher for USD 383 in Manhattan, KS from 1977 to 2002, passed away December 9th at the hospice house in Manhattan KS after a long battle with Frontotemporal Degeneration.                    

[Tony Z]

has anyone even watched the video ?   

Yes, and all I heard was  Toot, Toot, Toot.

[RTaz]

has anyone even watched the video ?   

Yes, and all I heard was  Toot, Toot, Toot.

Are you sure it's coming from the video? Toot,Toot,Toot.

[Jabba]

Being a teacher at a private school where parents were involved, and kids had some respect would be a great job.

In a public school setting, where parents are uninvolved, or directly confrontational, teachers have zero authority, and the students get away with verbal and physical assault on a regular basis.

If you made school funding local... then the inner city schools would get nothing, as their constituents are the poorest ones.  I am Mr. Libertarian and even I think those kids deserve a chance.  There are a few that succeed despite their school systems, and parents.

I went to college to be a teacher, until I found out what they made to start out.   

I know quite a few teachers.  they work hard during school, but they get time to travel and cruise and vacation way more than any of my non-teacher friends.  You sort of pick your poison.

Jabba

[G-Man]

If you made school funding local... then the inner city schools would get nothing, as their constituents are the poorest ones.  I am Mr. Libertarian and even I think those kids deserve a chance.  There are a few that succeed despite their school systems, and parents.

I recall a story about two school systems in New Jersy, in the poorest of the poorest neighborhoods, where the amount of money spent per student was the highest in the country.  How much money do we have to take and throw at a 4th grader so he'll learn?  Is $35K not enough, or $45K, how about $55,000 per student? 

(This isn't directed at you, Jabba, just continuing the debate.)

Yes, there will always be a kid or two who will stand out and learn within these systems.  I feel that child would benefit even more by being removed from a school where they are the most absolute minority and placed in a school where their hard work will benefit them even more.   

[Jabba]

No problem G-Man.

They already spend (as you sort of refer to) 2X as much per student, corrected for inflation, as they did 25 years ago, yet results are worse. 

The schools in the poorest neighborhoods get the MOST funding, and the schools in the affluent districts get the least, even though the home owners there pay the most.

And the education people are constantly stammering with their hands out wanting more, more, more and it won't help.  The trouble is at home.

I want public school to have corporal punishment.  Kick out the disruptive kids.  Send them home to their parents when they mis-behave.  If the parent has to take time off work... (assuming they have a job to begin with) they can teach the little bastid some manners and respect.

I give my sons teacher permission to take away his video games and TV at home.  All she has to do is drop me a note of call, and I will enforce her decision to take away stuff at home.  When he realized that his two worlds were not separate, and overlapped, we saw a distinct improvement in his behavior at school.

Jabba

[Tony Z]

has anyone even watched the video ?   

Yes, and all I heard was  Toot, Toot, Toot.

Are you sure it's coming from the video? Toot,Toot,Toot.

Yes, from the video.  What are you insinuating?

[B-Taz]

Yes, and all I heard was  Toot, Toot, Toot.
[/quote]


Sorry dude...  I'm a drummer not a horn player.   

I don't think I complained about what I do.  I complained about how a lot of opinions of the teaching profession, which thank you for calling noble, are being changed.  I'm not looking for accolades or feeling entitled.  Just hoping I can reach a few people that may not know what being a teacher is like.  We are being targeted a lot and it is getting worse.  Just trying to change public opinion.

But you know what they say... no matter how hard you try... you just can' reach everybody... 

[B-Taz]

When was the last time a Teachers union made any contractual consessions? Many other workers have had to make severe sacrifices to keep their jobs.

Flame Away!

Sorry man but teachers have made concessions for YEARS taking no increases in salary to keep the benefits they have.  Well now the benefits are gone and they are attacking retirement.  They do this with the support of the public because they have created a negative spin on teachers blaming them for inadequacies of the youth of America.  Teachers are expected to be superheroes!  I was 24 years old and had parents asking me how to raise their kids!  I'm not going woe is me.  I'm not an idiot either.  I knew exactly what I was getting into when I chose to be a teacher, and still wouldn't trade it for anything else.  The point of my post was to address the ignorance many people have about teachers and public education, which is obviously epidemic in nature!

[The Anvil]

When was the last time a Teachers union made any contractual consessions? Many other workers have had to make severe sacrifices to keep their jobs.

Flame Away!

Sorry man but teachers have made concessions for YEARS taking no increases in salary to keep the benefits they have.

This kind of proves my point about occupational envy. Just because everyone else has made concessions that have seen their standard of living deteriorate doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else should have to. Instead of admiring them for their unity people bitch and moan because they've allowed their own rights to erode and they'd rather put it on someone else. That way they can avoid feeling like suckers.

But you're also right that teachers have made concessions. They have not been immune to the economic effects.

[Momz]

No child left behind!  That certainly doesn't apply to the Detroit School system.
Administators, Principals, and even teachers themselves are part of the graft and corruption that now has the system under close scrutiny by the State of MI.

Senator J.Hune is looking into the possibility of completely revamping MIs entire education system and there will be a lot of teachers looking for other work in the near future. Teacher unions don't seem to want to be part of the solution, so there membership is going to wane.

Oh,...by the way I am no coservative Republican, rather a registered Democrat that sees what a bad economy and union demands are going to do to themselves. And it is not going to be pretty.

[buzz]

Our educational system is failing (from top to bottom).  It should have been revamped long time ago.  We're falling behind compared to the European and most of the far east countries.   

[valkmc]

As a teacher it is difficult to read these post for two reasons. One I know some of what is said about teachers is true and second because of the negative perception some citizens have of teachers.

I came to teaching after a being employed in the private sector and owning my own small business. I also went to college late in life and paid every cent of it myself. No help from mommy or daddy or financial aid. I do enjoy the 14 weeks a year off. I also do not understand why any student would go to college run up debt and then teach for 32K in our district under the condition they are subject to.
I do not work 12 hours a day, I work from 8am until 6pm with a 20 minute lunch, I do not consider that long hours. I do spend some of my own $ in the classroom because basic supplies like paper or pens are short and parents and school districts seem to expect me to supply them. I have a difficult time seeing kids going without basic stuff they need to learn. I see 190 14 to 18 year old students everyday in 6 periods, yes that is more than 30 per class. I am known in school as a tough take no non-sense teacher from either the kids or parents, I am also known as the guy who will go the extra mile to help kids. I went an got a school bus license on my own time and dime so kids and sports teams could  go to field trips and games because our county does not provide transport for these things. I am not paid while I drive.

With that said there are several teachers at our school who should not be teaching and there are many students who should not be there either. I work in the field and do not have all the answers but given the chance would change the following:

School should not be free if parents had to contribute something they maybe more involved.

Students who repeatedly abuse the rules and system should not be kept at school, let them work or something else but one child can keep a whole class from learning and that is not fair to students who are trying.

Teachers should be paid more, we need good teachers and I do not see an incentive for the best and brightest to go into the field.

Far away so called experts (politicians) should get the heck out of education and let the parents and local people, teachers included run the schools.

I like what I do because I know I have made a difference for many children and families, however I would not become a teacher right out of college, no economic incentive. I made my $ first and I can't see how I could have done it any other way.  

[Momz]

valkmc

School should not be free if parents had to contribute something they maybe more involved.

Students who repeatedly abuse the rules and system should not be kept at school, let them work or something else but one child can keep a whole class from learning and that is not fair to students who are trying.

On these points I totally agree.

[The Anvil]

No child left behind!  That certainly doesn't apply to the Detroit School system.
Administators, Principals, and even teachers themselves are part of the graft and corruption that now has the system under close scrutiny by the State of MI.

Senator J.Hune is looking into the possibility of completely revamping MIs entire education system and there will be a lot of teachers looking for other work in the near future. Teacher unions don't seem to want to be part of the solution, so there membership is going to wane.

Oh,...by the way I am no coservative Republican, rather a registered Democrat that sees what a bad economy and union demands are going to do to themselves. And it is not going to be pretty.

Teachers making a decent wage commensurate with their level of education and responsibility is not the problem.

That so many people buy into the concept that the WORKER is the problem with America is shocking. I really thought Americans were smarter than that. Every once in while it happens and when it does I'll admit it so here goes; I was wrong.

[Momz]

Anvil

That so many people buy into the concept that the WORKER is the problem with America is shocking. I really thought Americans were smarter than that. Every once in while it happens and when it does I'll admit it so here goes; I was wrong.

I have to agree with you on that.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

No child left behind!  That certainly doesn't apply to the Detroit School system.
Administators, Principals, and even teachers themselves are part of the graft and corruption that now has the system under close scrutiny by the State of MI.

Senator J.Hune is looking into the possibility of completely revamping MIs entire education system and there will be a lot of teachers looking for other work in the near future. Teacher unions don't seem to want to be part of the solution, so there membership is going to wane.

Oh,...by the way I am no coservative Republican, rather a registered Democrat that sees what a bad economy and union demands are going to do to themselves. And it is not going to be pretty.

 I'll admit it so here goes; I was wrong.

What a historic day in VRCC history.....


 I can hear Roosevelt now....."A date which will live in infamy".

[Tony Z]

No child left behind!  That certainly doesn't apply to the Detroit School system.
Administators, Principals, and even teachers themselves are part of the graft and corruption that now has the system under close scrutiny by the State of MI.

Senator J.Hune is looking into the possibility of completely revamping MIs entire education system and there will be a lot of teachers looking for other work in the near future. Teacher unions don't seem to want to be part of the solution, so there membership is going to wane.

Oh,...by the way I am no coservative Republican, rather a registered Democrat that sees what a bad economy and union demands are going to do to themselves. And it is not going to be pretty.

 I'll admit it so here goes; I was wrong.

What a historic day in VRCC history.....


 I can hear Roosevelt now....."A date which will live in infamy".

 

[Farther]

I really thought Americans were smarter than that.

There you go.  No matter how you slice it, half the population is below average intelligents.

[Willow]

I really thought Americans were smarter than that.

There you go.  No matter how you slice it, half the population is below average intelligents.

And just to complicate things a bit more, very few of us have a realistic view of where we fall on that scale.  

And it's my teachers' fault.   

And if they'd only been paid more they would've been better teachers.      

[Romeo]

 

+1

If I were king of the forest, we'd pay cops, teachers, and firefighters the way we pay sports and movie stars, and we'd pay sports and movie stars they way we currently pay teachers, cops, and firefighters.
I don't blame the celebs for taking what they can get. I would too. The problem is that we value the celebs more than we do firefighters, teachers and cops. What ever rational somebody wants to use, we as a nation demonstrate our priorities with our money. It's a sad indictment on values.

I could not agree with you more.  The whole pro sports thing and the contracts the players get, I can't believe there isn't more of a ruckus made about it.  Then there are the owners and what they are able to fleece from people willing to support their teams.  I for one will not do it.  There is no way I would pay for tickets to any of their events.  And don't even get me started on the Superbowl tickets. 

Fella's the market drives it. The market is a reflection of what "we the people" think is important.