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Davet261
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2011, 01:49:25 AM » |
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If you ever go to a Boss Hoss maintenance website the only antifreeze they say can be used is Evans. If it can keep a 502 or a 606 cool with the size of their radiators I am sure it would work with ease on a Valk......
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fordmano
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Posts: 1457
San Jose, CA. 1999 I/S 232 miles when bought 11/05
San Jose, CA.
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2011, 03:54:33 AM » |
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I have been running Engine Ice in my dirt bikes for the last few years and the Valkyrie as of about a year ago and the Valk never over heated but did seem in my opinion to run a bit on the hot side. I was able to drop 10-15 degrees or so with Engine Ice. Now you share this product, damn I guess I better get my wallet open and try this stuff out. I will definitely buy enough to swap out the coolant in My old 68 Mustang 351 bored .060 over and pushing well over 435HP that car tends to run a BIT hot maybe this will solve some of that issue. Sure sounds almost too good to be true.   |
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PAVALKER
Member
Posts: 4435
Retired Navy 22YOS, 2014 Valkyrie , VRCC# 27213
Pittsburgh, Pa
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2011, 06:59:31 AM » |
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I would recommend a flush of the system to get the old coolant out, but that might introduce more "water" into the system. You should open the system up, blow it out and let it dry out good. They said the coolant will tolerate up to a 3 percent water solution, otherwise corrosive and overheating issues will remain. 3 percent isn't all that much I don't think. And if you are investing 39 bucks a gallon, you might want to check and clean the thermostat and or water pump, and check/replace your hoses as well. And .... the Myan calendar says the world will end Dec 21 2012 so do you really want to invest in that pricey coolant now.... I'm waiting to complete my 2012 Christmas shopping and getting that coolant til Dec 22nd 2012 or so. |
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John  |
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KW
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2011, 08:24:26 AM » |
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Good post MarkT . . .I’ve heard of the stuff, but never knew anyone who said they ran it. This product does look interesting. I guess I’m ‘old school’ but I may check it out for the 69’. Despite the big 4-core, it’s always runs hot. The monster headers don’t help and they’re even ceramic coated. I’ve never had a problem or any issues with the Valk overheating though . . . Has anyone else? Fordmano; Sounds like you have a nice ride my friend. I’ve been looking for the ‘right’ 68 for my wife for about 2 years now. . . It has to be a 302 (either one, F or J code. It’s MY requirement) and an auto (HER requirement!) and it HAS to be Blue (HERS!) with the " little pony on the grill"!  I’m curious if you put the 351 in yourself? It wasn’t an engine option in 68, was it? Is your 351 a Windsor or a Cleveland? I’ve always wanted to swap one out myself on a car I owned. I’ve just helped on a few. Let me knon if you try this stuff in your Stang. |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2011, 09:12:11 AM » |
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I always found it odd that they claim it's "100% propylene glycol" but yet they have 3 different formulas?
I have 55 gallon drums of inhibited 100% propylene glycol at work. we use it in our product cooling systems.
I pay about $15 a gallon for it. It's sold by weight.
Brand name Dow Frost.
Never have tried it in the bike though.
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Magellon
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 09:23:34 AM » |
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Evans says "1 gallon of Prep Fluid is recommended for all motorcycles converting to NPG+ or NPG." To me looks like the price just doubled but never have to change coolant again. Still may be worth it. http://evanscooling.com/products/coolants/prep-fluid/ |
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Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5227
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2011, 11:05:08 AM » |
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MarkT: So I was looking through the tech archives to see if I could find when I put Evans NPG+ in my Valk (turned out it was 2002) when I found my reply to your March 10, 2003 message talking about your second water pump failing, suggesting you switch to NPG+. I said: Evans NPG+, no water, no silicates, no corrosion, no cooling system pressure required, no hot spots due to spot boiling in the head. Heat transfer rate isn't quite as good as regular coolant, but slightly higher engine temperatures never lead to boil over. KW: Evans NPG coolant WILL NOT help your truck run cooler, as PG is not as good at transferring heat as water is, but a hotter engine is not necessarily a bad thing when boiling is not an issue. Be sure to read all the technical info they have on their web site before switching to Evans products. All: With Evans coolant there is no reason not to modify your radiator cap so it doesn't hold pressure. This puts less stress on hoses and seals, helping them to last longer as well. My radiator still looks clean as a whistle inside. A quote from Vince from April 10, 2003 in the tech archives: This is my second bike to use evans in.
What sold me on it was when I used to commute on my Wing. My drive from Seattle to Tacoma was 37 miles. It could sometimes take up to 1 1/2 hours to travel that distance.
The wing would heat up to where the fans would run constantly. With a wing you have to keep the RPMS's up or the battery will drain while the fans are on.
With regular anti-freeze it would ping and knock with the engine that hot. I would sometimes smell anti-freeze as well. This tells me it was pumping into the overflow tank.
I switched to evans and the pings and knocks went away and in fact ran better when the engine was that hot.
This was the only real thing that I could tell changing the coolant accomplished, that is until I bought the Valk.
I purchased a 1999 Valk in 2001. The bike had 1,700 miles on it. Still had the original fluids from the factory in it.
I purchased a chrome water pump cover from Rattlebars and when I pulled the old one off I just about had a heart attack. All four of the bolts were VERY corroded and rusty. The water inlet was starting to pit. I could only imagine what the water jacket in the engine looked like.
I ordered new bolts from honda and replaced the coolant with evans immediately.
I also run evans in my wifes van. She just rolled 200,000 miles on that thing with 150,000 of that with evans in the radiator. Last time I pulled the radiator cap the insides looked brand new.
Your mechanic that stated that water cools better is correct. The best cooling you can do is water with redline water wetter added. This is great if you are out racing every weekend and store your car or bike in a nice heated garage the rest of the time.
I have never taken the time to look, but if a hotter thermostat could be put in the Valk the advantage of Evans would become more apparent. A hotter engine would be more fuel effecient and have more power.
Gotta check into that sometime. |
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« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 11:07:18 AM by Gryphon Rider »
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BF
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2011, 02:43:14 PM » |
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So which one to use in the Valk........the NPG+C?
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I can't help about the shape I'm in I can't sing, I ain't pretty and my legs are thin But don't ask me what I think of you I might not give the answer that you want me to  |
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Gryphon Rider
Member
Posts: 5227
2000 Tourer
Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2011, 04:05:03 PM » |
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So which one to use in the Valk........the NPG+C? When I bought and installed it they hadn't added the "C" designation and didn't offer the "powersports" version. They don't provide any information about what distinguishes "powersports" from the NPG+C, so I can only assume it's simply packaging and price and their desire for more profit. NPG+ is doing the trick for me. |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2011, 04:16:37 PM » |
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Diesels have been using propylene glycol for years, it's nothing new. But coolant temperature is not directly indicative of cooling efficiency. All other things being equal if your coolant temp is lower with this stuff than it is with traditional antifreeze it just means that the heat the combustion process is generating is probably not being transferred as efficiently.
Frankly, I think that the stuff is largely a waste of money if you're not experiencing problems already and the problems you're experiencing may not be cured by it. The only real benefit I see with this stuff is the higher boiling temp and in a properly functioning system it's irrelevant.
Since powersports applications are often employing a lot of aluminum engine parts (block, heads etc.) the "C" may stand for "corrosion inhibitor" or somesuch crap. Could also be a gimmick.
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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MarkT
Member
Posts: 5196
VRCC #437 "Form follows Function"
Colorado Front Range - elevation 2.005 km
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2011, 04:26:15 PM » |
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Shee-it. Mr Know-It-All don't like it. Guess I'll hafta tell Mr Leno and he should forget about putting it in any of his antique car collection. I'll hafta forget it and continue to corrode my cooling system. Dam. How in the world do I get Mr Know-It-All's blessing? Or maybe I'll just continue to discredit all of his posts.
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The Anvil
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2011, 05:45:22 PM » |
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How in the world do I get Mr Know-It-All's blessing? You can start by having a clue. Buy one if you have to because you're not having any luck the old fashioned way. Then you can try not being such a sensitive c**t when someone has an opinion you don't agree with. Give that a try. Odds are I'm still gonna think you suck though. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Jeff K
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2011, 06:23:11 PM » |
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alph
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 05:32:58 AM » |
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I use to spray propylene glycol on aircrafts when I worked for NW a long, long time ago, what’s the difference in that and Evans? I’m pretty sure they’re the same since the plane would be dripping wet with the stuff and I was told that it wasn’t harmful to the environment, and that it was safe enough to drink also…… anyone know?
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!!   |
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8731
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2012, 06:59:54 AM » |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2012, 07:22:32 AM » |
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I use to spray propylene glycol on aircrafts when I worked for NW a long, long time ago, what’s the difference in that and Evans? I’m pretty sure they’re the same since the plane would be dripping wet with the stuff and I was told that it wasn’t harmful to the environment, and that it was safe enough to drink also…… anyone know?
It's pretty much the same stuff but de-icing fluid used in aviation has a number of additives that something used as an engine coolant may not. A desirable trait for de-icing fluid is for it to stick at speed and corrosion inhibitors are almost always present. TKS fluid on the other hand (the stuff used in weeping wings and wet props) is ethylene glycol based, or at least it always was when I put it in the tank. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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MarkT
Member
Posts: 5196
VRCC #437 "Form follows Function"
Colorado Front Range - elevation 2.005 km
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« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2012, 09:36:55 AM » |
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How in the world do I get Mr Know-It-All's blessing? You can start by having a clue. Buy one if you have to because you're not having any luck the old fashioned way. Then you can try not being such a sensitive c**t when someone has an opinion you don't agree with. Give that a try. Odds are I'm still gonna think you suck though. Tell ya what mccarthy. You can have the Last Word. I'm back to ignoring you, and you can go back to generating hate, which you do so well. |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2012, 12:47:22 PM » |
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How in the world do I get Mr Know-It-All's blessing? You can start by having a clue. Buy one if you have to because you're not having any luck the old fashioned way. Then you can try not being such a sensitive c**t when someone has an opinion you don't agree with. Give that a try. Odds are I'm still gonna think you suck though. Tell ya what mccarthy. You can have the Last Word. I'm back to ignoring you, and you can go back to generating hate, which you do so well. Yeah , I was totally generating hate with my opinion. Wow, I mean really?  Actually I think I was being pretty nice. I could have said that anyone who would pay 40 bucks for a gallon of coolant (that you can get for about 15 bucks at any industrial supply) is a moron but I chose tact over expressing my true feelings. Well eff-it. If you're going to get sand in your vagina when I'm being nice then I just won't bother being nice in the first place. |
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« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 04:45:18 PM by Scott in Ok »
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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junior
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« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2012, 01:53:19 PM » |
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How in the world do I get Mr Know-It-All's blessing? You can start by having a clue. Buy one if you have to because you're not having any luck the old fashioned way. Then you can try not being such a sensitive c**t when someone has an opinion you don't agree with. Give that a try. Odds are I'm still gonna think you suck though. Tell ya what mccarthy. You can have the Last Word. I'm back to ignoring you, and you can go back to generating hate, which you do so well. Yeah McDouchey, I was totally generating hate with my opinion. Wow, I mean really? Actually I think I was being pretty nice. I could have said that anyone who would pay 40 bucks for a gallon of coolant (that you can get for about 15 bucks at any industrial supply) is a moron but I chose tact over expressing my true feelings. Well eff-it. If you're going to get sand in your vagina when I'm being nice then I just won't bother being nice in the first place. i dont think your as mean as you think you are................... |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2012, 01:55:07 PM » |
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How in the world do I get Mr Know-It-All's blessing? You can start by having a clue. Buy one if you have to because you're not having any luck the old fashioned way. Then you can try not being such a sensitive c**t when someone has an opinion you don't agree with. Give that a try. Odds are I'm still gonna think you suck though. Tell ya what mccarthy. You can have the Last Word. I'm back to ignoring you, and you can go back to generating hate, which you do so well. Yeah McDouchey, I was totally generating hate with my opinion. Wow, I mean really? Actually I think I was being pretty nice. I could have said that anyone who would pay 40 bucks for a gallon of coolant (that you can get for about 15 bucks at any industrial supply) is a moron but I chose tact over expressing my true feelings. Well eff-it. If you're going to get sand in your vagina when I'm being nice then I just won't bother being nice in the first place. i dont think your as mean as you think you are................... I don't think I was mean at all! |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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junior
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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2012, 02:00:19 PM » |
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How in the world do I get Mr Know-It-All's blessing? You can start by having a clue. Buy one if you have to because you're not having any luck the old fashioned way. Then you can try not being such a sensitive c**t when someone has an opinion you don't agree with. Give that a try. Odds are I'm still gonna think you suck though. Tell ya what mccarthy. You can have the Last Word. I'm back to ignoring you, and you can go back to generating hate, which you do so well. Yeah McDouchey, I was totally generating hate with my opinion. Wow, I mean really? Actually I think I was being pretty nice. I could have said that anyone who would pay 40 bucks for a gallon of coolant (that you can get for about 15 bucks at any industrial supply) is a moron but I chose tact over expressing my true feelings. Well eff-it. If you're going to get sand in your vagina when I'm being nice then I just won't bother being nice in the first place. i dont think your as mean as you think you are................... I don't think I was mean at all! after seeing your postsmost of them make alot of sence.but you have to remember we are a monoitity here. and ifin yo aint in the click yo aint dick......so you better get used to it |
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alph
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2012, 02:20:23 PM » |
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that you can get for about 15 bucks at any industrial supply really? under what name? what do i ask for? what kind of "industrial supply"? hey JR, hows that trailer coming?? |
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!! |
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junior
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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2012, 02:32:12 PM » |
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that you can get for about 15 bucks at any industrial supply really? under what name? what do i ask for? what kind of "industrial supply"? hey JR, hows that trailer coming?? its comming along real good, i have 2 in the works that singlr wheeled on and a teardrop,depends on what i take a liking to the most depends on what one i keep |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2012, 03:15:53 PM » |
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that you can get for about 15 bucks at any industrial supply really? under what name? what do i ask for? what kind of "industrial supply"? Just ask for propylene glycol antifreeze at a supplier that offers bulk chemicals for the auto industry. We buy it locally along with our bulk oil and traditional auto anti-freeze. Most sell to the public in single gallons but some sell only in 5 gallons or more. Actually I just had a hunch and looked to find that Tractor Supply sells propylene glycol based anti-freeze. About half the price of Leno's snake-oil. http://www.tractorsupply.com/sierra-reg-automotive-antifreeze-1-gal--0836045 |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Fudd
Member
Posts: 1733
MSF RiderCoach
Denham Springs, La.
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« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2012, 04:16:29 PM » |
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So which one to use in the Valk........the NPG+C? When I bought and installed it they hadn't added the "C" designation and didn't offer the "powersports" version. They don't provide any information about what distinguishes "powersports" from the NPG+C, so I can only assume it's simply packaging and price and their desire for more profit. NPG+ is doing the trick for me. I could not get the video from Mark T's original post to play, so I found a youtube video on the subject of "evans in motorcycles." That video says to use NPG+R in motorcycles because of it's lighter viscosity is easer on small water pumps.
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 Save a horse, ride a Valkyrie |
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Robert
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« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2012, 04:39:52 PM » |
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I found a few things interesting,
First Leno has full time mechanics and has millions of dollars in cars and cant maintain the cooling system on them. You and I have aluminum cooling systems and we have no problem with corrosion. Next they list it as a plus that the cooling system is actually hotter because no matter how you say it water is still the most efficient at heat transfer , which Evans pointed out. I use water wetter and water with a touch of antifreeze and have in fact lowered the temp and pressure of my cooling systems. On my truck I have indeed lowered the radiator cap pressure and have no problems at all. All my vehicles that I do this with actually run cooler not hotter like the Evans. Which any vehicle with a well designed cooling system should be able to do. Higher engine temp does translate to more efficiency but not necessarily more power. I Have not changed the solution of my cooling system since I changed the thermostat awhile ago and it looks as clean as the day I put it in. Evans wouldn't work except for the fact that it has a wetting agent in it that allows the heat to be transferred more efficiently. I am not against Evans and being here in SFla I dont really need alot of antifreeze so it does have its place. But If you protect your engine with antifreeze water wetter and distilled water I really see no advantage. Especially when antifreeze never changes never goes bad. Evans also pointed out, only the additives fall out these additives are what actually clog the radiator. They recycle antifreeze which involves filtering it and adding additives upping the concentration but it doesn't change the base. One other thing believe it or not it is used in alot of our cosmetics and some food stuffs.
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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MarkT
Member
Posts: 5196
VRCC #437 "Form follows Function"
Colorado Front Range - elevation 2.005 km
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« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2012, 05:51:32 PM » |
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I don't claim to be an expert on cooling or even know much about it, I have to trust those that are until such time as I find out differently. Corrosion horror stories scare me; all that damage going on inside your engine, unseen but it's still happening. This idea of paying more for Super Coolant of some high-tech mix, even if it costs a lot, but requires seldom if ever, changing - as Evans claims - seems like a no brainer to me. Yeah I'll pay a lot for "snake oil", if it's actually good stuff, protects my investment, and I don't have to do it regularly. I tend to trust Leno - he has tons of money, so probably doesn't need to be on the take, helps out the little guys on his web site, and I don't have any reason to think his testimony is tainted by a conflict of interest. So I'm gonna try this stuff out. It's not a big loss if it is snake oil - and if he's right - well cool, for about $40 I'm done changing antifreeze, and radiator worries are over.
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Robert
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« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2012, 06:23:33 PM » |
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Mark first, hello, I have been procrastinating sending you my exhaust.
But with that said just a little more info if you use water wetter and straight propylene glycol bring the freeze point to where you want it, the mix will work better than what they offer. I know that Leno doesn't need the money but that is also the problem he is not a mechanic and if anything breaks he can take the pocket change out and fix it. Anyone that would have a Deusenburg, manufacture a aluminum side cover and trust that it is ok with what someone would have told him is to me suspect. If he didn't have enough knowledge to know that the plate on the side of that expensive car would go bad how the hell is he sure about this? If you do it please tell about the results, thanks.
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8731
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2012, 07:32:36 PM » |
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If you're going to get sand in your vagina when I'm being nice then I just won't bother being nice in the first place.
Shows how much Mr. Know-it-all knows..... It's MANGINA, only a female has a vagina. |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2012, 09:03:49 PM » |
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If you're going to get sand in your vagina when I'm being nice then I just won't bother being nice in the first place.
Shows how much Mr. Know-it-all knows..... It's MANGINA, only a female has a vagina. I think you're giving Mr. T too much credit. I think it was spot-on. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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The Anvil
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« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2012, 09:07:25 PM » |
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Please keep in mind that Jay Leno is a notoriously backs-stabbing son-of-a-whore who will do anything to make a buck. I would not put it past him to schill something the benefits of which are suspect.
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Chattanooga Mark
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« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2012, 10:51:56 PM » |
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It would have been great if Honda put the Evans Antifreeze in at the factory. I bought my 1999 Interstate in May of 2009 with only 6500 miles on it. One of the things done to it prior to me buying it was a radiator flush. But the 10 years and only 6500 miles is likely the worst case scenario for the cooling components. They sat around for a long time not being used. But it maintains a very consistant oil and water temperature regardless of the ambient temperature. As far as I know, my cooling components are all oroginal. Maybe some of my cooling parts (water pump) have corrosion, maybe not. Would the Evans stuff stop any corrosion that may already be their?
Truth be told, I'm not going to keep the Valkyrie for the rest of my life anyway. Normal radiator flushing every 3 years is likely a good practice to continue.
Happy New Year,
Mark.
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...do justice, love kindness, walk humbly... The Bible: Read, Apply, Repeat 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour, in all its pearl white beauty www.bikersforchrist.org |
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Robert
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« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2012, 07:57:58 AM » |
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Hey Anvil I wouldn't want you to be shy or hold back or anything please tell us how you feel |
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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MarkT
Member
Posts: 5196
VRCC #437 "Form follows Function"
Colorado Front Range - elevation 2.005 km
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« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2012, 10:49:26 AM » |
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If you're going to get sand in your vagina when I'm being nice then I just won't bother being nice in the first place.
Shows how much Mr. Know-it-all knows..... It's MANGINA, only a female has a vagina. I think you're giving Mr. T too much credit. I think it was spot-on. You're one brave SOB, given the anonymity of the computer and great distance. In person? Not so much. Gonna show your face at any ride-ins? I look forward to meeting you. |
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