Helmet laws

[f6john]

 http://www.motorcyclepartsandaccessoriesblog.com/a-mandatory-helmet-law-could-be-in-your-future/2011/12/15?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=2012-january-newsletter-active&utm_term=helmet_law_article&spMailingID=38209910&spUserID=NDM0NTIzMTg2NgS2&spJobID=125002944&spReportId=MTI1MDAyOTQ0S0

 I know there are varied opinions on the subject but thought this would be of interest

[WamegoRob]

The comments on that page are a good read, too, and ouch.. it's rough to get caught without a lid in Europe.

[Tundra]

If everyone wears a helmet, how will we know who the cool guys are? ???
  Silly me, never mind they ride Harleys (just a joke)

[junior]

hey waite a min i dont wear a helmet and i dont ride a harley.....so where do i fall into that equation?

[fudgie]

hey waite a min i dont wear a helmet and i dont ride a harley.....so where do i fall into that equation?

+2 

[Momz]

The MRF, ABATE, and the AMA (to a lesser extent) have been warning us for sometime now.
Wearing a helmet does not prevent accidents, as the NHTSA and insurance companies would have you believe. They are a secondary measure and not a preventative.

"Let those who ride decide"

[sandy]

Just like seatbelts, helmets are a piece of safety equipment. Why don't we hear a lot about mandatory seatbelt laws? I'd never promote the use of helmets but I would not promote the removal of a mandatory helmet law either. I "wear" all the time. Back in the day: I rode bicycles daily. I read an article which explained that when a motorist saw a bicyclist with a helmet, they (psychologically) saw the cyclist as a safe person and gave them more respect. Could this be true of us too? When we wear safety gear, do motorists afford us more respect on the highway. I wear a high visibility helmet (reflective tape) and safety clothing. Other than the occasional tailgator, I have very few close calls in traffic. To each his own.

[Chrisj CMA]

I think the more important issue is size of Government and the power grabbing administration we have.  The actual decision to make wearing a helmet the law is no different than the seatbelt law in my book.  I guess time will tell if this is merely a safety issue or a move towards eliminating motorcycles from American roads.  Why would I say such a radical thing?  Maybe because after seeing and going through highway stops aimed soley at motorcycles and laws written to unfairly target bikes, it just doesnt seem off the charts that there might be a hidden agenda out there.

Uncle sam (BIG Brother) is getting more intrusive....thats the issue I think not who has to wear a helmet

[Rocketman]

The MRF, ABATE, and the AMA (to a lesser extent) have been warning us for sometime now.
Wearing a helmet does not prevent accidents, as the NHTSA and insurance companies would have you believe. They are a secondary measure and not a preventative.

"Let those who ride decide"

I've never seen anyone try to claim that they prevent accidents, simply that they protect the wearer in the event of an accident.  Where was the prevention claim made?

Mark

[T-Bird]

I think the more important issue is size of Government and the power grabbing administration we have.  The actual decision to make wearing a helmet the law is no different than the seatbelt law in my book.  I guess time will tell if this is merely a safety issue or a move towards eliminating motorcycles from American roads.  Why would I say such a radical thing?  Maybe because after seeing and going through highway stops aimed soley at motorcycles and laws written to unfairly target bikes, it just doesnt seem off the charts that there might be a hidden agenda out there.

Uncle sam (BIG Brother) is getting more intrusive....thats the issue I think not who has to wear a helmet

+1 

It ticks me off the goverment still won't make seatbelts mandatory on school buses, but will ticket you in your car!

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Just like seatbelts, helmets are a piece of safety equipment. Why don't we hear a lot about mandatory seatbelt laws? I'd never promote the use of helmets but I would not promote the removal of a mandatory helmet law either. I "wear" all the time. Back in the day: I rode bicycles daily. I read an article which explained that when a motorist saw a bicyclist with a helmet, they (psychologically) saw the cyclist as a safe person and gave them more respect. Could this be true of us too? When we wear safety gear, do motorists afford us more respect on the highway. I wear a high visibility helmet (reflective tape) and safety clothing. Other than the occasional tailgator, I have very few close calls in traffic. To each his own.

For the most part, I quit wearing seatbelts when they made it mandatory although I'll hook the belt under my knee to avoid paying fines. When it's voluntary it's a safety issue. When it's mandatory it's a FREEDOM issue.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.''
-- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964

[KSDragonRider]

And then there are guys like me.... I wore a seat belt before it was a mandatory thing... I wear a helmet in a no helmet state.  I have seen crashes where the seat belt killed the person.  I have have seen 5 times that where they saved a life.
Never seen a crash where a helmet killed anyone... seen a bunch where even a skull cap saved someones life.

I skullcap in summer, full face in winter.  Have rode less than 10 miles in the last 5 years without a helmet.

[Big Rig]

If they make it manditory to wear a helmet, will all those who do not wear one not ride anymore???

[Tundra]

If they make it manditory to wear a helmet, will all those who do not wear one not ride anymore???

Yes, they will wear the smallest novelty skid lids available and glue DOT stickers to them.
That's what we actually did back when Florida had helmet laws 

[fudgie]

If they make it manditory to wear a helmet, will all those who do not wear one not ride anymore???

Yes, they will wear the smallest novelty skid lids available and glue DOT stickers to them.
That's what we actually did back when Florida had helmet laws 

Thats what I got!  'Cept I didnt glue mine on, it was a sticker. 

[fudgie]

Just like seatbelts, helmets are a piece of safety equipment. Why don't we hear a lot about mandatory seatbelt laws? I'd never promote the use of helmets but I would not promote the removal of a mandatory helmet law either. I "wear" all the time. Back in the day: I rode bicycles daily. I read an article which explained that when a motorist saw a bicyclist with a helmet, they (psychologically) saw the cyclist as a safe person and gave them more respect. Could this be true of us too? When we wear safety gear, do motorists afford us more respect on the highway. I wear a high visibility helmet (reflective tape) and safety clothing. Other than the occasional tailgator, I have very few close calls in traffic. To each his own.

For the most part, I quit wearing seatbelts when they made it mandatory although I'll hook the belt under my knee to avoid paying fines. When it's voluntary it's a safety issue. When it's mandatory it's a FREEDOM issue.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.''
-- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964

Some guys at work hook the seat belt in the buckle and then sit on it. Another has a old ford buckle he just puts in the latch. We have 'tattle tale' boxes in the truck and the boss knows if we dont wear one.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

If they make it manditory to wear a helmet, will all those who do not wear one not ride anymore???

I'd probably wear an old football helmet with horns glued on instead of my $300  lid when I'm going back and forth to work. I'd ruin a helmet every week if I had to wear it home in the summer time after working in the sweat box I work in.

The other thing is, I'd keep track of the politicians who sold me out and took away my Freedom. And I'd vote against them every time they ran for anything for the rest of my life. And, I'd write letters to the editor before every election urging everyone else to vote against them too, again, for the rest of my life or as long as they run for public office.

I helped get a well thought of local career politician voted out this way after he voted to make seat-belts mandatory in pickups. I devoted quite a bit of time to letting everyone I had any contact with know he had voted away our freedom while our boys and girls were overseas fighting to protect it. I still wonder if he got a permanent insurance discount in exchange for his vote.  He's passed away now so I guess even if he did it's over now.

Occasionally we are able to regain lost Freedoms, just as we did in Indiana years ago with the repeal of our helmet law. But, for the most part, you seldom regain a freedom once you lose it.

And, after all that being said. With the exception of the occasional ride home from work without a lid I almost always wear one. I like the protection from the wind, sun, insects and rain. And, I like to have my tunes rocking in my helmet when I'm droning on the superslab. But, it's my choice to do so.

We may, though evil or idiocy eventually lose our Freedom here in the US. But as long as I breath, I'll do what I can to protect every little piece of it.

Better to live 10 seconds as a free citizen than 100 lifetimes as a slave to the safety Nazis.

[Clark]

hey waite a min i dont wear a helmet and i dont ride a harley.....so where do i fall into that equation?

IDIOT

[x]

I think the more important issue is size of Government and the power grabbing administration we have.  The actual decision to make wearing a helmet the law is no different than the seatbelt law in my book.  I guess time will tell if this is merely a safety issue or a move towards eliminating motorcycles from American roads.  Why would I say such a radical thing?  Maybe because after seeing and going through highway stops aimed soley at motorcycles and laws written to unfairly target bikes, it just doesnt seem off the charts that there might be a hidden agenda out there.

Uncle sam (BIG Brother) is getting more intrusive....thats the issue I think not who has to wear a helmet

For all you conspiracy theorists out there, my only question would be, why is there "a move towards eliminating motorcycles from American roads"?

Who wants this?  Rick Santorum?  Obama?  Crazed little old ladies longing for the days of prohibition?  Can you identify the group or groups pushing for this?

[sandy]

It ticks me off the goverment still won't make seatbelts mandatory on school buses, but will ticket you in your car!
[/quote]

The reason there's no seatbelts on schoolbusses is that enforcement is impossible. Also some kids will swing them around and smack the kid next to him just for fun. PS: I've been a Scottsdale SB driver for 7 years.

[hal47]

If helmets are so good and they truely are concerned with our safety, why doesn't everyone have to wear one? I don't ever  remember a race car driver without one,  so surely every person driving a car would be safer.      LET THE INDIVIUAL DECIDE

[john]

It ticks me off the goverment still won't make seatbelts mandatory on school buses, but will ticket you in your car!

The reason there's no seatbelts on schoolbusses is that enforcement is impossible. Also some kids will swing them around and smack the kid next to him just for fun. PS: I've been a Scottsdale SB driver for 7 years.
[/quote]
 hey sandy           
do you drive shuttle bus for salt river tubers during the summer ?       
         an e ticket ride ...     

[Psychotic Bovine]

I think the more important issue is size of Government and the power grabbing administration we have.  The actual decision to make wearing a helmet the law is no different than the seatbelt law in my book.  I guess time will tell if this is merely a safety issue or a move towards eliminating motorcycles from American roads.  Why would I say such a radical thing?  Maybe because after seeing and going through highway stops aimed soley at motorcycles and laws written to unfairly target bikes, it just doesnt seem off the charts that there might be a hidden agenda out there.

Uncle sam (BIG Brother) is getting more intrusive....thats the issue I think not who has to wear a helmet

For all you conspiracy theorists out there, my only question would be, why is there "a move towards eliminating motorcycles from American roads"?

Who wants this?  Rick Santorum?  Obama?  Crazed little old ladies longing for the days of prohibition?  Can you identify the group or groups pushing for this?

Some people would have all bikes banned.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/citylink/sfl-auto-erotica-its-time-to-ban-the-motorcycle-20110613,0,4414821.story

And here is a group who wants to ban ALL off road vehicles and sport watercraft.

http://www.stopthrillcraft.org/vision.htm

Just like the media and their "assault weapons", this group hopes to demonize the owners by calling the vehicles "thrillcraft".

[PhredValk]

As long as my taxes go to fund health care, I'm for seat belts and helmets. "Freedom" guy wants to ride without a helmet, let him pay for his own hospitalization. Now that you southerners have "health care", count on helmet laws in every state. Insurance companies will demand it.

I know of at least 4 people who would have left wife and kids behind without seatbelts, and 2 without helmets. They save lives and reduce injuries. It's not the rider that pays, it's his family. Think of your Mom and Dad crying at your funeral.
Fred.

[junior]

hey waite a min i dont wear a helmet and i dont ride a harley.....so where do i fall into that equation?

IDIOT

how does that saying go? "dont judge unless he be judged"?

[junior]

and a helmet woyld have prevented this injury?

[junior]

If helmets are so good and they truely are concerned with our safety, why doesn't everyone have to wear one? I don't ever  remember a race car driver without one,  so surely every person driving a car would be safer.      LET THE INDIVIUAL DECIDE

and howmany racecar drivers have died with thier helmits on?

[junior]

ok lets change helmets to condoms................
and with all due respect to all the married men here...............

how would you feel if BIG BROTHER told you it was manitory to wear a rubber while bangging your wife?
try this dont tell her let it be a surprize,and when she asks tell her its for her safety, the goverment says so

[Clark]

hey waite a min i dont wear a helmet and i dont ride a harley.....so where do i fall into that equation?

IDIOT

how does that saying go? "dont judge unless he be judged"?

[vanagon40]

As long as my taxes go to fund health care, I'm for seat belts and helmets. . . .

I do not have any data to support this theory, but I would not be surprised if injuries (including deaths) from the lack of use of seat belts and helmets would result in lowering overall health care costs.

Does anyone have any data to support the theory that wearing safety equipment reduces overall health care costs?

[Clark]

welll I aint no rocket surgeon but I will take a stab at it.. lets say ya have a million dollar health ins. policy.. ya ride yer mc. without a helmet and ya crash.. yer brain dead but still alive.. yer in intensive care for several weeks... there goes yer million bucks...now who's gonna pay??well I suppose your family could sell the house and property but how long will that money last.. so Then the hospital eats it and writes it off.. so to recoup their loss they raise their rates... so then the insurance company raises their rates and on and ON

[Chrisj CMA]

ok lets change helmets to condoms

I never saw one big enough, and no they wont meet DOT.  Might be hard to see...In medical school we used to stretch latex gloves over our heads and blow them up with air so you look like some kind of alien chicken thing (kids do stupid things).....I do remember you cant see through that stuff very well.....not a good idea


Yeah, silly response to a silly post.  sheesh

[Gary]

lets say ya have a million dollar health ins. policy.. ya ride yer mc. without a helmet and ya crash.. yer brain dead but still alive.. yer in intensive care for several weeks... there goes yer million bucks...now who's gonna pay??well I suppose your family could sell the house and property but how long will that money last.. so Then the hospital eats it and writes it off.. so to recoup their loss they raise their rates... so then the insurance company raises their rates and on and ON

Same story for those that were wearing their helmet. They (helmets) don't prevent that brain dead patient, they only might coulda reduced the risk of, no guarantee's. 

[Clark]

lets say ya have a million dollar health ins. policy.. ya ride yer mc. without a helmet and ya crash.. yer brain dead but still alive.. yer in intensive care for several weeks... there goes yer million bucks...now who's gonna pay??well I suppose your family could sell the house and property but how long will that money last.. so Then the hospital eats it and writes it off.. so to recoup their loss they raise their rates... so then the insurance company raises their rates and on and ON

Same story for those that were wearing their helmet. They (helmets) don't prevent that brain dead patient, they only might coulda reduced the risk of, no guarantee's. 

only might coulda... I like that.. butttt.. le me ask ya Gary ole buddy.. if you had a choice would you raTher smack he pavement with yer bare noggin or with a helmet on it?? and remember..THIS IS THE NO SPIN ZONE

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

As long as my taxes go to fund health care, I'm for seat belts and helmets. "Freedom" guy wants to ride without a helmet, let him pay for his own hospitalization. Now that you southerners have "health care", count on helmet laws in every state. Insurance companies will demand it.

I know of at least 4 people who would have left wife and kids behind without seatbelts, and 2 without helmets. They save lives and reduce injuries. It's not the rider that pays, it's his family. Think of your Mom and Dad crying at your funeral.
Fred.

My wife and one of my sons have been saved from serious injury by wearing seatbelts. One of my brothers was killed in an accident he would probably have survived if he had been wearing a seatbelt. I had to wake up my Mom at 2AM and tell her Larry had been killed at 44 years old. I'm the only one of the three of us brothers who is still on this side of the grave.

Would I change that and bring him back if I could by making seatbelts mandatory? No. I loved him dearly as did his son, his wife and all of the family. But, in my world, Freedom always comes first.

To sell our freedom in the name of safety is to turn our backs on our Founding Fathers and the doctrine of civil liberties and freedom which led to the creation of our county. I wouldn't do that to save my own life, the life anyone else or the life of everyone else.

As Benjamin Franklin said sometime around 1775, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I couldn't agree more.

   

[Willow]

As Benjamin Franklin said sometime around 1775, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I couldn't agree more.

Although I agree in principle with much of the argument against mandatory helmet laws, it appears to me that Ben Franklin's quote has once again been applied well out of context.

To get the proper feel for Ben's statement, one must not ignore the modifiers.  One should carefully determine what exactly are essential liberty and temporary safety.  I'm pretty sure the author of that quote didn't have in mind seatbelts and helmets.

As to the expensive head injury argument, it would be pretty easy to prove that a helmetless contact at significant speed is more likely to result in death while a helmeted impact of the same sort can result in either no significant injury or that expensive debilitating injury that was most feared.

Just so you know how my behaviors influence my thinking, I live in a free state (Kansas).  I normally ride with a helmet (half shell mostly) but have been known on occasion to choose to ride with my hair in the wind.

I support the rider's right to choose and applaud the rider's right choice.        

[czuch]

I'm a helmet believer. Thats for me. I wont tell you to wear one.
I HAVE given gloves to complete strangers. Saw a dude who really wished he had some as he was looking at the flap-o-palm hanging on to his badly leaking hand.
It tourques me no end I have to wear my seat belt but I dont have to wear a helmet.

[Psychotic Bovine]

I am a believer in helmet, gloves, jacket (leather or ballistic), and boots.  I know my jeans won't take much of an impact, but they are better than bare skin.  If I could just find a pair of comfortable riding pants that look decent for day to day wear, but protect well, I would be all set.

[Rocketman]

lets say ya have a million dollar health ins. policy.. ya ride yer mc. without a helmet and ya crash.. yer brain dead but still alive.. yer in intensive care for several weeks... there goes yer million bucks...now who's gonna pay??well I suppose your family could sell the house and property but how long will that money last.. so Then the hospital eats it and writes it off.. so to recoup their loss they raise their rates... so then the insurance company raises their rates and on and ON

Same story for those that were wearing their helmet. They (helmets) don't prevent that brain dead patient, they only might coulda reduced the risk of, no guarantee's. 

This logic doesn't fly.  There's a finite probability of getting a brain injury even while wearing a helmet, so why bother wearing one?
By the same reasoning, the upstairs floor in my house doesn't prevent me from falling to the ground floor, it only might coulda reduce the risk of, no guarantees.  There's a finite probability of falling through the floor, so why bother having a floor in the first place?
Yes, that's an exaggeration for effect, but not as much as you might think.  I don't know numbers, but the probability of a brain injury without a helmet is significantly higher than with.  For low impact wrecks, probability without a helmet is in the medium range, while probability with a helmet is in the negligible range.  For mid-range impact wrecks, probability without is in the high to severe range, while probability with is in the medium range.  For high impact wrecks, probability without is in the "guaranteed" range, while probability with is in the high to severe range.  Just because someone you know was in a high impact wreck that overwhelmed the helmet's ability to protect, doesn't mean that you should give up the benefits of one.
That being said, make your own choice.  I won't tell you to wear one or not.  However, I don't want people to pretend there's no safety to be gained by wearing one.  Pretending that is at best making excuses to yourself or others for your choice.  If you have made an informed choice to not wear one ("I know the pros (safety, wind/bug protection, etc.) and the cons (hot, uncomfortable, no wind through my hair, etc.) but choose not to"), then a free country should allow that.  I know the pros and cons but choose to wear one.  A choice should be made accompanied by knowledge, not propaganda from EITHER side.

Mark

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I am a believer in helmet, gloves, jacket (leather or ballistic), and boots.  I know my jeans won't take much of an impact, but they are better than bare skin.  If I could just find a pair of comfortable riding pants that look decent for day to day wear, but protect well, I would be all set.

They won't help in an impact but for cool weather riding comfort, flannel lined jeans are hard to beat.