Arc welding ?'s

[YoungPUP]

So I'm teaching myself how to arc weld. Wasn't by choice, the mig was out of shielding gas when I went to weld my jack adapter together. Not good yet, but not horrible either. I only stick the stick every once in a while, and the beads don;t look bad if your name is Ray Charles or Helen Keller.  What I'm wondering is how do I keep shocking the hell out of myself? I don't think I touching anything I don't get it....

[BF]

No idea.  But I'd love to learn how to tig. 

[michaelyoung254]

Assuming that you're not standing on a wet floor or it's very damp where you're welding, I'd check the ground. Maybe the connection where the cable attaches to the clamp is dirty and/or loose. Plus if you're using a welding table where the ground clamp is attached to the table instead of what you're working on, try to move the clamp closer to the workpiece.

[NCGhostrider]

Interesting that you keep shocking yourself.   Usually, it happens when your gloves are damp, and you have a tendency to hold the electrode holder with a finger or thumb against the bare end of the welding rod, or perhaps an assembly screw in the holder.  I have seen some "cracker box" welders that have a tendency to shock more than others...but I can offer no explanation for that. Damp floors/ground might be suspect also.

I do a lot of welding nowdays, but use engine driven equipment as a rule, getting shocked is part of it occasionally, but I do what I can to avoid it.   The new "chopper" technology found in modern Lincoln engine driven welders will "light you up."   I still prefer my old grey lincoln, it is what is prefered in my environment...it shocks when you are wet, but doesn't surge trying to maintain the arc!  Can you say OUCH!

On a bad day, it usually beats sitting behind a desk like I used to do managing IT systems.....LOL

holler if I can help...

Craig
NcGhostrider
99 I/S

 

[GreenLantern57]

The (60XX) red sticks are a puddle and pull away type weld. Think stacking nickels.  The (70xx) gray sticks are a puddle and flow type weld.  The gray sticks are more like the wire weld when you are flowing toward you.
 
Best way I know how to describe it for the red sticks, they are a wide disperse type weld that is mostly a surface weld and we used to use them for the root passes on pipe welds, when doing that, you do more of a keyhole weld.

Either way, it just takes lots of practice and determining the right amps for the job to be done.

You should not be shocked as a regular part of welding. The rod holder should have insulated grips and you should be wearing gloves.  Your gloves not only add another layer of insulation from the electrical power, but also protect you from the heat generated. If your ground is in good shape and is not directly connected to the piece of metal being welded, use a pair of vise grips to make sure the work piece has a good ground to the table/stand you are using.

[olddog1946]

Have no idea why you'd be getting shocked. I've got an old , old, stick welder that I used on my engine run stand and the carry all for the back of the Valk and never gotten shocked from it.  May be a poor connection at some point..

As to the welds , well.......that's what they make grinders for.

[R J]

Is the power outlet you are plugged into, grounded?

In other words does the ground wire go from the receptacle to the main box?

This wire I refer to is attached just to the side of the input current, and runs back to the Breaker box ground plate.

Your best bet is to just hire a licensed electrician and have him check it out..

[YoungPUP]

Found the problem last night. not too many strands in the ground cord still connected to the clamp. Definitely an enlightening experience.

[olddog1946]

Glad you found it , now all ya need is that grinder..

[YoungPUP]

Gonna keep working with this.  The mig is nice because its quick and convenient, but for some reason I seem to be enjoying the stick welding. Plus with the ancient Lincoln I've got its capable of heavier work than the little 110v knock off lincoln mig that I was given.  Plus the lincoln was Grandpa's  so it just kinda seems right.

[bscrive]

Even though I have a 180 amp mig, if I want to weld thicker than 1/8", I usually use the arc welder.  Seems to work better for me.

And like olddog says, that is what grinders are for, just make sure you get good penetration on both pieces metal.

Brian

[Patrick]

Glad you figured this out. I was going to suggest a ground issue as RJ did. You shouldn't get a shock unless you're very wet. I production welded my way thru college and we wouldn't really get shocked,but, we 'tingled' all the time when it rained and we had to stand in a few inches of water..
It sounds like you're trying to use an old Lincoln AC 'buzz-box'.. They are a good old welder and the more familiar you get with it the better your MIG welds will be..

[Grumpy]

Glad you figured this out. I was going to suggest a ground issue as RJ did. You shouldn't get a shock unless you're very wet. I production welded my way thru college and we wouldn't really get shocked,but, we 'tingled' all the time when it rained and we had to stand in a few inches of water..
It sounds like you're trying to use an old Lincoln AC 'buzz-box'.. They are a good old welder and the more familiar you get with it the better your MIG welds will be..

I got knocked on my rear a couple years ago,Was welding a 3 axle trailer frame together. Every thing was going great till I sat on the wet frame, went to change the rod, knocked me completely off the frame. I learned real quick, water and welding do not mix.

[The Anvil]

I suck at MIG welding. Sadly, it's part of the curriculum in my class, so I lean on another instructor to teach electric welding. Gas welding I'm much better at but I'm still not great. I'm one hell of a lot better than I was though. Welding is an art and I really wish I were better at it. I wish I had more time to practice because when you run a really nice bead it's very rewarding.

[Challenger]

I use a mig at work and really like it, I have a Licoln arc welder also. but "as Anvil said" there is nothing better than knocking the slag off of a stickwelded bead and seeing a beautiful weld under there.

[GreenLantern57]

If you are doing good at gas welding, there is no reason not to get a really good MIG weld. Just a matter of getting your puddle started and working it. I always listened for the weld as much as looking at the flow. A really good MIG weld had a very tunable buzz.  Too hot and you have to speed up the feed. Too cold and you have to slow it down and really stay at the bottom of the weld. With MIG, you have heat, wire feed, and arc distance working together. Tune it with you ears. Once you have that sound, you will always recognize it and could even close your eyes and just listen to the buzz and have a great looking weld.
I was very lucky to have a teacher that could take anyones problems and correct them.  Lots of patience and praise when deserved.

[Blackduck]

Not sure about the "coloured" sticks but for general use 60XX are the go.
There are some marketed for smooth finish (usually for light gauge material requiring a good finish).
Main point is clean,clean and clean. Even mill scale on new iron should be ground off to have clean steel to weld. If you are worried about cracking pre heat the steel until the moisture film disappears.
All steel holds some moisture.
Store rods in a moisture tight container, if needed bake them for and hour or so before use.
After getting good on steel try Aluminium, its fun!
Cheers Steve

[alph]

i'm not a profesional welder!  (never been taught, all self taught)

that being said, i've got a stick welder, we've got a MIG, and TIG welder at work, i love both of 'em!!  much easier to use then the stick!  easy as pie to get a good weld bead with a wirefeed then it is for a stick!!  if i had to buy a welder i'd get a TIG welder, don't know the brand of the one at work but you can hook up a stick to it if you want plus you can do aluminum or stainless.  i've got some stainless sticks for the stick welder, but it's not as "pretty" as the TIG.

we've got a Plasma torch at work also, could someone explain to me why you'd ever want to use an oxygen/accedoline torch if you've got a Plasma? 

al.

[Bigwolf]

  My advice is to not trust any weld you make unless you have credible experience or have done some practice welds that you have put to a stress test to be sure they will hold.  In my working days I saw a lot of people that thought they could weld really well but when their work was put to the test it would fall apart very easily.

 I saw a lot of mig welds that had beautiful looking beads that would just fall off because they were not bonded to the parent metal.  With migs, the shielding gas is critical to the depth of penetration and other characteristics of the weld.  The variables possible with a mig are many.  Too much to go into in this thread.

  I like stick welding for heavy junky stuff that I am throwin together. 

After getting good on steel try Aluminium, its fun!

  Welding aluminum with a stick requires a DC reverse polarity machine.  An AC buzz box will turn that aluminum rod into a sparkler.

  There are some great books on welding at the book store.  Pricey but worth every penny if ya really want to know how to weld.

Wolf

[GreenLantern57]

Felt great the day I passed the coupon test for my overhead flux-core wire.  Uphill was a bitc*, but I managed that way faster than the overhead.

What is the cost of plasma cut per ft versus Oxy cut?  I know the plasma is the bomb for thin material, but with the right tip and pressure, I can get a 90 degree cut in a 3 in plate using Oxy torch.

[RP#62]

Felt great the day I passed the coupon test for my overhead flux-core wire.  Uphill was a bitc*, but I managed that way faster than the overhead.

What is the cost of plasma cut per ft versus Oxy cut?  I know the plasma is the bomb for thin material, but with the right tip and pressure, I can get a 90 degree cut in a 3 in plate using Oxy torch.

Once you go above 3/8" plate O/A is cheaper - maybe not as convenient, but cheaper.
-RP

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I wish I had more time to practice because when you run a really nice bead it's very rewarding.

Yep. I'm waiting on a deep burn on the top of one foot to heal because I didn't want to stop in the middle of a good bead. A large chuck of meg splatter landed in the crease of my pants leg above my boot, then burned through and landed in my boot. I kept trying to ignore it and finish the bead. Then I had to give up and "do the dance". 

I've never used a stick or meg in the rain but I have gotten tickled a few times when my sweaty self was leaning against the welding bench while I changed rods barehanded or with a wet glove.

6013's are a very forgiving rod when used with AC. Haven't tried them with DC. They have worked well for me on thin steel that was re-cracking when welded with a meg. Also held up well for me when used to weld a cracked frame on an old Massey Ferguson garden tractor which cracked where it flexed when mowing my rough, uneven yard and field. Don't turn the heat up too high on them and you'll get good looking beads.

I've got a 250amp tig in the barn right now I'm trying to teach myself to use. I thought being able to meg and stick weld would make it easy. Nope!!!

[hotglue #43]

Welding is fun.... especially if ya don't have to do it for a living...LOL..
I was a pipeline welder for a major oil co. for years....  every weld was 100% x-ray and hydrotest...
I enjoy it a LOT more now that I'm retired, but had to buy my own equipment...Alway had a little crackerbox, but didn't use it much when I had a 250amp 100% duty cycle machine on my truck (company supplied)
  Bought a Miller Bobcat 250...250 amp/100% duty cycle.. sweet macine, smooth arc, Burns 3/16" rods with ease!!!!   AC/DC, straight and reverse polarity, constant voltage/constant amp settings.  Does stick, mig, and tig... runs on gasoline, also is a 10kw generator.

Practice, burn rods, play with your amp settings, watch what your puddle is doing.....If ya don't see your puddle.......Practice, burn rods, play with your amp settings..................................

  I pulled up to a filling station for diesel in my company welding truck, and a guy walks up and asks.
"Hey, are you a welder"?  My 1st thought was ....'Here's yer sign'
I told him " Nope, I just found this silly looking cap..... No way I could be a welder...my parents are married"  
  

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Welding is fun.... especially if ya don't have to do it for a living...LOL..
I was a pipeline welder for a major oil co. for years....  every weld was 100% x-ray and hydrotest...
I enjoy it a LOT more now that I'm retired, but had to buy my own equipment...Alway had a little crackerbox, but didn't use it much when I had a 250amp 100% duty cycle machine on my truck (company supplied)
  Bought a Miller Bobcat 250...250 amp/100% duty cycle.. sweet macine, smooth arc, Burns 3/16" rods with ease!!!!   AC/DC, straight and reverse polarity, constant voltage/constant amp settings.  Does stick, mig, and tig... runs on gasoline, also is a 10kw generator.

Practice, burn rods, play with your amp settings, watch what your puddle is doing.....If ya don't see your puddle.......Practice, burn rods, play with your amp settings..................................

  I pulled up to a filling station for diesel in my company welding truck, and a guy walks up and asks.
"Hey, are you a welder"?  My 1st thought was ....'Here's yer sign'
I told him " Nope, I just found this silly looking cap..... No way I could be a welder...my parents are married"  
  

I've grabbed a hood and watched pipeline welders a time or two. Now that's an art. 

[The Anvil]

  My advice is to not trust any weld you make unless you have credible experience or have done some practice welds that you have put to a stress test to be sure they will hold.  In my working days I saw a lot of people that thought they could weld really well but when their work was put to the test it would fall apart very easily.

Yeah, you can run a really nice bead but fail to get good penetration. I see that a lot in my students. They come to me all proud that of their nice looking bead and then practically cry when I put the two pieces in a vise and break them easily. But then some of them come in with no experience and put down a better weld than I do. That makes ME want to cry.

[YoungPUP]

Thanks for all the info and insight. I finished making my jack adapter for the Valk ( modified version of the Ross lift for the car floor jack) I used what was available at the local steel supply yard, so its all done with 3/16" wall box square tube, and the base plate is 1/2"  instead of 3/8"  ( thats me being cheap, they wouldve had to cut me a piece of 3/8"  but the piece of 1/2" was in their scrap box). I welded it together with an old lincoln stick welder, and tested it WAY overkill by llifting and old junk ford truck at my buddies shop. Some of my welds are down right embarassing looking, but thats what the grinder is for....