13.9 Percent

[x]

How is it that someone who made 21.6 million dollars in 2010 only pays 13.9 percent in income taxes, whereas the average working stiff pays a lot more than that?  It's even worse if you factor in Social Security.  To put that into perspective:  That is $500,000 per week.  It takes him one day to earn what the average stiff earns.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-24/romney-s-tax-return-release-set-to-inflame-debate-over-15-investment-rate.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/mitt-romney-tax-returns-released_n_1225247.html
 
What the hell is it with the Republican wing nuts who continue to push for lower tax rates for the rich when they already pay less than the rest of us?  The philandering, corrupt Newt Gingrich wants to make capital gains tax zero.  Guys like Romney would essentially pay nothing in tax.

It's not only Romney, it is the vast majority of the super rich who pay less tax.  And for the same reasons.  Part of the problem is 'carry interest'.  Hedge fund operators get to call the earnings they make capital gains, when in reality, it is the earnings from the invested money of others, not their own money.  Part of the problem is Social Security... capped... so the payments required mean nothing to the super rich.
 
Hell, Warren Buffet gets the message... the richest man in America... Rich folks should pay their fair share... and if they did, the budget deficit would be a hell of a lot lower.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/warren-buffett-tax-me-more/

[junior]

must be someone didnt quite make it into the next tax bracket................lol

[wdvalk]

simple,rich people run the government

[junior]

simple,rich people run the government

well if the rich got taxed acordinly they goverment would have more money   

[Romeo]

For every issue, there is at least two sides to the story. I suspect the same premise applies here. The sad truth is when the left  rails about unfair taxation, they refuse to admit that if EVERYONE was taxed at that same "obscene" low rate of 13.9% and ALL the people actually paid something, and we didn't have the entitlement mentality that the left has perpetuated with "their" way of doing things, we wouldn't have the problems we are now experiencing. It's not the evil republicans fault, they just do what the law allows, just as the folks who constantly rip off the system, and have become permanent drains on the economy are.

[LL]

Who made the rules then?

[Dubsvalk]

Did he do anything illegal?  Is the IRS after him for tax avoidance? The simple thing is, he paid the taxes he was told to pay.  Do you think that his taxes have not been scrutinized by the IRS when he announced his bid for the presdency?  Should he pay more taxes?  Would you pay more taxes if you didn't have to.  Answer these questions honestly and you will see the light.  Does our tax laws need changing?  Of course.  Fair Tax has been on the table for several years now and no one wants to touch it.  We need to clean house on BOTH sides of the isle and vote for people who will serve this great country instead of their greed.  We need term limits for Congress, Fair Tax, Spending cuts that make sense, stop foreign aid, illeagel immigration.  The list is too long.
Dubs

[Psycho]

I didn't read anything about the people that pay no taxes.  Is that fair?  Who pays their share?  They seem to get freebees, that are paid for by others.  Just saying.

[LandElephant]

Answer honestly?  I don't hear anyone asking about the Presidents taxes, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried?  Or is it just the republicans?

I would challenge everyone to look at their taxes and determine exactly what % they pay every year.  Not what's taken out before you file, but the final total.  You may be surprised to find that you are paying a lot less than you think.

I made 6 figures last year and my final % was 11.6%.  Is that unfair? I followed the tax code.

Don't hear anyone screaaming about the tax hike that was sold as a tax cut by the administration to supposedly create jobs.  Have you figured that one out? What about the robbing of Social Security and Medicare by this administration?

For me, I don't want to give any of these fat hogs to the feeding bucket anymore money to waste until they figure out how to cut the deficit (for real where the actual deficit goes down) and create an economy that is solid and stable.

This post appears to be another stir the pot and then hide behind the keyboard to see what the conseratives start saying.

Flame suit on.

Charlie Morse
Land Elephant

[hubcapsc]

How is it that someone who made 21.6 million dollars in 2010 only pays 13.9 percent in income taxes, whereas the average working stiff pays a lot more than that?

Mitt Romney released his 2010 tax returns and an estimate for 2011 showing he is likely to pay $6.2 million on income of $42.5 million over the two-year period.

Dang, SE, he's ripping you off... you need to round up the villagers and head out to his place with the
pitchforks and torches!!!

-Mike

[Bob E.]

The question isn't whether he broke the law or not, but whether the tax law is fair.  Romney knew he was the poster child for the "Buffet Rule" and given the level of dissatisfaction over the growing level of wealth disparity in the country, he expected it would be a problem for him.  So he tried to avoid it by not releasing them...which was something else that could be a problem for him.  The ironic thing is that the tradition of politicians running for office releasing their tax returns was his father...which was something else used against him.

[Full_Throttle]

How is it that someone who made 21.6 million dollars in 2010 only pays 13.9 percent in income taxes, whereas the average working stiff pays a lot more than that?  It's even worse if you factor in Social Security.  To put that into perspective:  That is $500,000 per week.  It takes him one day to earn what the average stiff earns.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-24/romney-s-tax-return-release-set-to-inflame-debate-over-15-investment-rate.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/mitt-romney-tax-returns-released_n_1225247.html
 
What the hell is it with the Republican wing nuts who continue to push for lower tax rates for the rich when they already pay less than the rest of us?  The philandering, corrupt Newt Gingrich wants to make capital gains tax zero.  Guys like Romney would essentially pay nothing in tax.

It's not only Romney, it is the vast majority of the super rich who pay less tax.  And for the same reasons.  Part of the problem is 'carry interest'.  Hedge fund operators get to call the earnings they make capital gains, when in reality, it is the earnings from the invested money of others, not their own money.  Part of the problem is Social Security... capped... so the payments required mean nothing to the super rich.
 
Hell, Warren Buffet gets the message... the richest man in America... Rich folks should pay their fair share... and if they did, the budget deficit would be a hell of a lot lower.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/warren-buffett-tax-me-more/

Since we are talking about fair, how about you post up your 2010 taxes???

[Jabba]

so this guy paid $3M in income tax... (I only did the math as posted) and din't pay his fair share?

I call bull-feces. 

Poor don't pay more tax than that!  They might pay a higher percentage... but not more TAX.

as a side note... I am a big advocate of the FairTax, which taxes what you SPEND, rather than what you make.

WAY better for everyone, except the lawmakers.  Which is why we don't HAVE it.

We should fire them until they enact it.

Jabba

[DFragn]

 
Hell, Warren Buffet gets the message... the richest man in America... Rich folks should pay their fair share... and if they did, the budget deficit would be a hell of a lot lower.

Factually, Buffet is 20 Billion shy of Bill Gates

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

[Rams]

Jealousy is an ugly thing.  He has what he has.  I have no problem with his or Barrack Obama wealth.  As long as they pay what the tax code says is their fair share.   

Now, I do have a problem with the tax code, I'd like to see a flatter rate tax and see both the rich and those not so rich pay a share.  I'd also like to see most of those entitlement programs end but, that's just me.  I've only got one vote and those receiving those entitlements out number me by a long shot  As I see it, it's not this particular individual's problem but, there's a lot of politicians catering to those entitlement recipients to get votes.  Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me.  I  know, you weren't asking me.

[Bob E.]

Jealousy is an ugly thing.  He has what he has.  I have no problem with his or Barrack Obama wealth.  As long as they pay what the tax code says is their fair share.   

Now, I do have a problem with the tax code, I'd like to see a flatter rate tax and see both the rich and those not so rich pay a share.  I'd also like to see most of those entitlement programs end but, that's just me.  I've only got one vote and those receiving those entitlements out number me by a long shot  As I see it, it's not this particular individual's problem but, there's a lot of politicians catering to those entitlement recipients to get votes.  Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me.  I  know, you weren't asking me.

Would you consider corporate tax subsidies...like we pay to the oil and big agricultural industries...as entitlements that should end?  We pay out a pretty large amount of money...maybe even more than we pay for poor people to be able to eat. That's the problem.  We are attacking funding of programs that help the poor who actually need it while protecting entitlements that help large industries that do not need it.

[SANDMAN5]

This post appears to be another stir the pot and then hide behind the keyboard to see what the conseratives start saying.

 

[fudgie]

Jealousy is an ugly thing.  He has what he has.  I have no problem with his or Barrack Obama wealth.  As long as they pay what the tax code says is their fair share.   

Now, I do have a problem with the tax code, I'd like to see a flatter rate tax and see both the rich and those not so rich pay a share.  I'd also like to see most of those entitlement programs end but, that's just me.  I've only got one vote and those receiving those entitlements out number me by a long shot  As I see it, it's not this particular individual's problem but, there's a lot of politicians catering to those entitlement recipients to get votes.  Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me.  I  know, you weren't asking me.

Would you consider corporate tax subsidies...like we pay to the oil and big agricultural industries...as entitlements that should end?  We pay out a pretty large amount of money...maybe even more than we pay for poor people to be able to eat. That's the problem.  We are attacking funding of programs that help the poor who actually need it while protecting entitlements that help large industries that do not need it.

I dont like paying the 'poor' that dont need it. By that I mean the baby factory moms that dont work. Not the ones out of a job.

[Rams]

Jealousy is an ugly thing.  He has what he has.  I have no problem with his or Barrack Obama wealth.  As long as they pay what the tax code says is their fair share.   

Now, I do have a problem with the tax code, I'd like to see a flatter rate tax and see both the rich and those not so rich pay a share.  I'd also like to see most of those entitlement programs end but, that's just me.  I've only got one vote and those receiving those entitlements out number me by a long shot  As I see it, it's not this particular individual's problem but, there's a lot of politicians catering to those entitlement recipients to get votes.  Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me.  I  know, you weren't asking me.

Would you consider corporate tax subsidies...like we pay to the oil and big agricultural industries...as entitlements that should end?  We pay out a pretty large amount of money...maybe even more than we pay for poor people to be able to eat. That's the problem.  We are attacking funding of programs that help the poor who actually need it while protecting entitlements that help large industries that do not need it.

Honestly, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.   I have no problem with a helping hand, I have a problem with hand outs.  I have no problem with tax incentives that put people to work, I have problem with political give aways.  Much depends on your/my definitions.  

Defense spending always seems to take huge swings which in some ways is as it should be but, we've all seen where politicians stick their noses in to a situations where they secure large contracts for corporations that are located in their states.  It's all about buying votes.  I'm a capitalist, I believe in capitalism and have absolutely no faith in socialism.  Feeding the poor is not something the government should be doing as the norm and yet, it's a booming industry.  I see a problem with that.  I don't have a problem with the government helping in things like diaster situations.  But, that assistance has to end and people have to be forced to go back to work.  There are many good/bad examples of folks that live off of entitlements and have for generations.  Most of us have seen it.  I have examples of this in my own family.  They've learned to work the system and there are folks out there who help them rather that force them to find paying jobs.  

That about covers it.  I know some will never agree with me but, that's the way things are.   If folks want to feed the poor, I've got no problem with that but, spend your own money, not those who simply pay their taxes and work for what they earn.

[tank_post142]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 i looked i don't see where it says: to provide the general welfare

[Serk]

Wayne, you're smarter than that... You know that income tax is not the same as capital gains tax, but just in case I overestimated you, income tax (What most of us pay) is tax paid on money you make the first time around...

Capital gains tax is money made with money you already have (And thus already paid the higher income tax on, or inheritance tax on, or some other tax).

So... Capital gains is a tax on money that has ALREADY BEEN TAXED (at least) once before.

But... you already knew that, and were just playing into the latest talking point from the Obama reelection campaign and their latest attempt at class warfare...

[musclehead]

smoke mirrors and distraction, that's what he paid on his investments. he's one of those unemployed dudes.

for perspective if you took his 22 million and applied it to running the government. the gov could run for a little more then 7 minutes. we are spending 188 million per hour.

ya know he IS such a greedy SOB he gave millions to charity, how much did Joe Biden give?

[MP]

smoke mirrors and distraction, that's what he paid on his investments. he's one of those unemployed dudes.

for perspective if you took his 22 million and applied it to running the government. the gov could run for a little more then 7 minutes. we are spending 188 million per hour.

ya know he IS such a greedy SOB he gave millions to charity, how much did Joe Biden give?

+1.

He actually gave more to charity that the IRS took. Between the two, over 30%.  How many of us give away 15% or our income?  I would hazard that very few do.  Koodoos to Mitt and his family.

MP

[98valk]

How is it that someone who made 21.6 million dollars in 2010 only pays 13.9 percent in income taxes, whereas the average working stiff pays a lot more than that?  It's even worse if you factor in Social Security.  To put that into perspective:  That is $500,000 per week.  It takes him one day to earn what the average stiff earns.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-24/romney-s-tax-return-release-set-to-inflame-debate-over-15-investment-rate.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/mitt-romney-tax-returns-released_n_1225247.html
 
What the hell is it with the Republican wing nuts who continue to push for lower tax rates for the rich when they already pay less than the rest of us?  The philandering, corrupt Newt Gingrich wants to make capital gains tax zero.  Guys like Romney would essentially pay nothing in tax.

It's not only Romney, it is the vast majority of the super rich who pay less tax.  And for the same reasons.  Part of the problem is 'carry interest'.  Hedge fund operators get to call the earnings they make capital gains, when in reality, it is the earnings from the invested money of others, not their own money.  Part of the problem is Social Security... capped... so the payments required mean nothing to the super rich.
 
Hell, Warren Buffet gets the message... the richest man in America... Rich folks should pay their fair share... and if they did, the budget deficit would be a hell of a lot lower.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/warren-buffett-tax-me-more/

so u have a problem with somebody following the tax laws of the United States? why do u even care?
does it bother u that somebody is making more than u and is maybe smarter?
didn't u leave the United States of America to avoid paying taxes, for your business and personal taxes?
I'm done with u.

He'll pay a hugh amount of taxes when he retires. its the law.

"Most of us aren't that lucky, and it's easy to be envious, but there's nothing illegal about working hard and being a good money manager.

Of course, that begs the question of whether this was a good strategy. Some WSJ experts concluded that it wasn't because it means that Romney will have to pay ordinary income taxes on money he takes out of the IRA -- and by law, he'll have to start taking a large amount out in five or six years when he turns 70 1/2.

I'm no tax whiz, so I'm going to leave this question up to Bankrate's tax expert and blogger Kay Bell. But even if that puts Romney in the 35 percent tax bracket, it's still a great problem to have.

Read more: Romney's retirement plan | Bankrate.com http://www.bankrate.com/financing/retirement/romneys-retirement-plan/#ixzz1kPaCSLlz"

[WamegoRob]

With America's current tax laws there are so many credits, deductions and exemptions that lots of folks don't pay any tax.
I will postpone considering who's not paying enough until everyone is paying something.

One can't help but wonder if it's all money well-spent, though, when looking at the long list of entities that depend on our dollars for survival.  Take a minute (or 10) to scroll through those and ponder how many are actually needed for America's success, let alone specified in the Constitution.

[Farther]

I have never met anyone that is not paying at least some tax.  Maybe someone could point me in the direction of some "facts" that support the opinion that there are people who pay no tax.

[MP]

I have never met anyone that is not paying at least some tax.  Maybe someone could point me in the direction of some "facts" that support the opinion that there are people who pay no tax.

The taxes we have all been talking about are Income Taxes, not any of the others.  About 46% of the population pay 0 Income Taxes.

MP

[tank_post142]

with 3 children and a wife. 2009 and 2010, me making in excess $50.000. i had no federal income tax liabilities, living in florida we pay no state income tax. at the same time these children mean i am spending big $ to keep them in clothes food etc. and total outlay in sales tax for 2009 was $13,310
2010 was $14,436  this is not counting property taxes.

[Thespian]

  Is it the poor that are breaking the back's of the tax payer?

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=pie+chart+of+us+budget&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1C2CHFX_enUS462US462&biw=1117&bih=751&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=jjs6zNt8OktUwM:&imgrefurl=http://www.barryhermanson.org/&docid=bfEabcUHqe4adM&imgurl=http://www.barryhermanson.org/home/pie.gif&w=312&h=316&ei=bzIfT8vrBqWc2AWdzKGjDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=285&vpy=276&dur=3715&hovh=226&hovw=223&tx=88&ty=124&sig=113451703017255095183&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=128&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0

 Are the rich paying a fair share? They own the government and wright the tax code to benefit themselves.

[9Ball]

I often see people in the supermarket line ahead of me swiping their food stamp card and eating better than we do on two incomes.  Now they get free cell phones and 250 free minutes/month while we pay our own wireless phone bill each month.  It's a great way for the politicians to buy votes...and it's a pathetic state for our country to be in.

Almost 1/2 (47%) pay no income taxes....once it gets greater than 50% who is going to be paying?

[MP]

  Is it the poor that are breaking the back's of the tax payer?

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=pie+chart+of+us+budget&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1C2CHFX_enUS462US462&biw=1117&bih=751&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=jjs6zNt8OktUwM:&imgrefurl=http://www.barryhermanson.org/&docid=bfEabcUHqe4adM&imgurl=http://www.barryhermanson.org/home/pie.gif&w=312&h=316&ei=bzIfT8vrBqWc2AWdzKGjDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=285&vpy=276&dur=3715&hovh=226&hovw=223&tx=88&ty=124&sig=113451703017255095183&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=128&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0

 Are the rich paying a fair share? They own the government and wright the tax code to benefit themselves.

We have enough income, we have a massive spending problem.

MP

[Buda]

All I know is that my wife and I have extra taken out of each check on top of claiming 0 and still usually
 have to pay a bit at the end of the year.  I feel that we are paying our share.

[Bigdog]

EXACTLY   MP   EXACTLY

[Chattanooga Mark]

You have to understand the difference between wealth, capital gains and payroll income.

Simple if you care to look at the facts. Confusing if you want to throw around lies and half truths.

Mark

[Thespian]

So thank God for John rich guy who keeps the ball rollin, but Joe employs no one and should not

be rewarded like John rich guy.

 So John puts someone to work out of the kindness of his hart? Or because John Q public creates demand.

 The rich feed off us, they don't build us up for the common good.

[x]

Answer honestly?  I don't hear anyone asking about the Presidents taxes, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried?  Or is it just the republicans?

Because at least the President and Vice President have already released their tax returns.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/18/president-obama-and-vice-president-biden-s-tax-returns-and-tax-receipts

Obama paid $453,770 on income of $1,728,096, for a tax rate of 26.3 percent.  Biden paid federal taxes of $86,626 on income of $379,178 for a tax rate of 23.4 percent.

So, if you were more informed you'd know this information was/is already available.

I would challenge everyone to look at their taxes and determine exactly what % they pay every year.  Not what's taken out before you file, but the final total.  You may be surprised to find that you are paying a lot less than you think.

I made 6 figures last year and my final % was 11.6%.  Is that unfair? I followed the tax code.

The same for Romney holds true.  He followed the tax code as well.  The question is:  Is it fair for someone to pay far less than the average working stiff just because their income is "investment" income?  I don't see that as fair at all, and yes, before you go running off that you need low capital gains taxes to spur investment, be aware that there is little correlation between capital investment and capital gains tax percentages.  Warren Buffet is well aware of this, and as a huge investor, advocates increased capital gains taxes.

Don't hear anyone screaaming about the tax hike that was sold as a tax cut by the administration to supposedly create jobs.  Have you figured that one out? What about the robbing of Social Security and Medicare by this administration?

What in the world are you talking about and what does it have to do with the subject matter, namely the tax rates of rich individuals?  FWIW, SS and Medicare collections have been 'invested' in US Treasuries for decades... why the jab at "this administration"?

For me, I don't want to give any of these fat hogs to the feeding bucket anymore money to waste until they figure out how to cut the deficit (for real where the actual deficit goes down) and create an economy that is solid and stable.

This post appears to be another stir the pot and then hide behind the keyboard to see what the conseratives start saying.

Flame suit on.

Charlie Morse
Land Elephant

Why do you call it stirring the pot when I ask a legitimate question?  What's the matter?  Are you afraid that the answer rings true, that your Republican buddies put the rich ahead of you?

[Thespian]

We have enough income, we have a massive spending problem.



MP
[/quote]

 Taxes are at the lowest they have been in decades, and are lower than most other industrialized countries. I didn't want the payroll tax break to be extended. After all I didn't feel it when it went into effect. I do want more for what I am paying for.

  No more Fascism, that being singular control of our society by Corporations!

[x]

How is it that someone who made 21.6 million dollars in 2010 only pays 13.9 percent in income taxes, whereas the average working stiff pays a lot more than that?

Mitt Romney released his 2010 tax returns and an estimate for 2011 showing he is likely to pay $6.2 million on income of $42.5 million over the two-year period.

Dang, SE, he's ripping you off... you need to round up the villagers and head out to his place with the
pitchforks and torches!!!

-Mike

Why?  I didn't say he is doing anything illegal.  I did say that he pays a lot lower tax rate than the majority of wage earners, and that number is even larger when you include the social security payroll tax... that's an income tax as surely as is your federal tax return.  Because social security payments are made only on earned income and are capped, the rich pay a very small percentage in social security tax.  That's 15.3 percent up to $110,100 for the average working stiff.

Why do folks like you attempt to tar the messenger for a legitimately asked question?  Are you afraid of the answers?  Or is it that you don't have any original answers, just the often repeated talking points of people like Gingrich who would cut Romney's taxes to close to zero?  You think that's good?  You think Romney should pay zero taxes?
 

[x]

How is it that someone who made 21.6 million dollars in 2010 only pays 13.9 percent in income taxes, whereas the average working stiff pays a lot more than that?  It's even worse if you factor in Social Security.  To put that into perspective:  That is $500,000 per week.  It takes him one day to earn what the average stiff earns.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-24/romney-s-tax-return-release-set-to-inflame-debate-over-15-investment-rate.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/mitt-romney-tax-returns-released_n_1225247.html
 
What the hell is it with the Republican wing nuts who continue to push for lower tax rates for the rich when they already pay less than the rest of us?  The philandering, corrupt Newt Gingrich wants to make capital gains tax zero.  Guys like Romney would essentially pay nothing in tax.

It's not only Romney, it is the vast majority of the super rich who pay less tax.  And for the same reasons.  Part of the problem is 'carry interest'.  Hedge fund operators get to call the earnings they make capital gains, when in reality, it is the earnings from the invested money of others, not their own money.  Part of the problem is Social Security... capped... so the payments required mean nothing to the super rich.
 
Hell, Warren Buffet gets the message... the richest man in America... Rich folks should pay their fair share... and if they did, the budget deficit would be a hell of a lot lower.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/warren-buffett-tax-me-more/

Since we are talking about fair, how about you post up your 2010 taxes???

Why?  Why don't you post your taxes and show us how "fair" Romney's taxes are?  Like Romney, I pay what I am legally obligated to pay.  I favor an increase in the capital gains rates.  You, on the other hand, seem only capable of attacking the messenger, with nothing to say about the topic.  Why bother to post at all?

[x]

I have never met anyone that is not paying at least some tax.  Maybe someone could point me in the direction of some "facts" that support the opinion that there are people who pay no tax.

The taxes we have all been talking about are Income Taxes, not any of the others.  About 46% of the population pay 0 Income Taxes.

MP

Correct.  But what does this have to do with the tax rates of the very rich?