Wow, the hatred is finally getting to me. (political rant)

[G-Man]

Since the last Presidential election/campaign, I have heard such hatred from so many people aimed towards individual candidates and at the "other" party in general.  And I have to say, I hear and read more hatred from one side than the other.

Disclosure:  I am an independant with right leaning conservative and libertarian views.

As someone who grew up and went to school in NYC, I am surrounded in life (real and internet) by those that call themselves Liberal.  The absolute hatred that comes from some folks that call themselves liberal is astonishing.  I always thought that "liberal" meant "live and let live" for the most part.   

The other side is not so innocent either, but most of the hatred I've been exposed to from the Right is from the extemists, but not from everyday conservative/repubs like I've seen from the Left.  And whether you agree or not, the TEA Party has NOTHING to do with race, it is a conservative movement. They are surely right wing, but definitely not nuts.

I just read horrific lies about Santorum and Romney posted on Facebook by folks I went to school with.  These folks are not politically connected or invloved in anyone's campaigns, but yet they fire off such ugly lies, that the leftwingnuts put out there, without even finding out if there is any truth behind it.  And when you call them on it, they provide the link to the huffingtonpost and and attach your knowledge.

I can't wait till this election is over and the hatred can go back to being aimed at minorities and Jews.   

[doubletee]

I agree with your overall sentiments about politics. I believe what we have in the US is the best thing going, and I wouldn't trade it for anyplace else in the world, but I, too, am sick to death of the "bashing" and hatred. It's so polorized and so out of control these days.

My experience, though, is the hatred is strongest from the right directed at the left. I believe much of that is because where I live is predominately right-leaning. (Complete disclosure:  I identify mostly with Libertarians, but I really don't claim to be part of any party.)

As with you, I can't wait for this political "season" to end.

[Serk]

political "season"

Question - If it's Political Season..... Where do I get my tags, and what's the bag limit?!?!?! 

[Jack]

political "season"

Question - If it's Political Season..... Where do I get my tags, and what's the bag limit?!?!?! 

 

[G-Man]

political "season"

Question - If it's Political Season..... Where do I get my tags, and what's the bag limit?!?!?! 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bob E.]

G-man...on that we can agree!    Well, mostly...I'd differ on which side is more guilty of the hatred, but that's to be expected.  It is natural that the side you disagree with would be perceived as more hateful.

This is why, when I participate in these political threads, I try to be respectful in conveying my point of view without belittling those I disagree with.  When the conversation turns to personal attacks and name-calling, that's when I usually jump out.  It is sad that our politicians cannot always stick to the topic being discussed without the "spin".

You and I have had a couple disagreements on these topics, and for the most part, it has stayed above the line.  And for that, I thank you.

[G-Man]

G-man...on that we can agree!    Well, mostly...I'd differ on which side is more guilty of the hatred, but that's to be expected.  It is natural that the side you disagree with would be perceived as more hateful.

This is why, when I participate in these political threads, I try to be respectful in conveying my point of view without belittling those I disagree with.  When the conversation turns to personal attacks and name-calling, that's when I usually jump out.  It is sad that our politicians cannot always stick to the topic being discussed without the "spin".

You and I have had a couple disagreements on these topics, and for the most part, it has stayed above the line.  And for that, I thank you.

I'm with you Bob!  I also try to stay respectful. 

[texaninsouthfl]

G-man...on that we can agree!    Well, mostly...I'd differ on which side is more guilty of the hatred, but that's to be expected.  It is natural that the side you disagree with would be perceived as more hateful.

This is why, when I participate in these political threads, I try to be respectful in conveying my point of view without belittling those I disagree with.  When the conversation turns to personal attacks and name-calling, that's when I usually jump out.  It is sad that our politicians cannot always stick to the topic being discussed without the "spin".

You and I have had a couple disagreements on these topics, and for the most part, it has stayed above the line.  And for that, I thank you.

Bob, while I disagree with you on nearly everything, I do have to give you props on your reasonable and courteous way of presenting your positions. You're still mostly wrong of course... but at least you're nice about it... 

[Bob E.]

G-man...on that we can agree!    Well, mostly...I'd differ on which side is more guilty of the hatred, but that's to be expected.  It is natural that the side you disagree with would be perceived as more hateful.

This is why, when I participate in these political threads, I try to be respectful in conveying my point of view without belittling those I disagree with.  When the conversation turns to personal attacks and name-calling, that's when I usually jump out.  It is sad that our politicians cannot always stick to the topic being discussed without the "spin".

You and I have had a couple disagreements on these topics, and for the most part, it has stayed above the line.  And for that, I thank you.

Bob, while I disagree with you on nearly everything, I do have to give you props on your reasonable and courteous way of presenting your positions. You're still mostly wrong of course... but at least you're nice about it... 

Thanks...I think...LOL!!!

[Oss]

How to disagree while remaining civil is indeed an art, one missed by many otherwise
intelligent folks on and off this board.

 G you raise a great point about social media

Today on the way into work I heard on the news that because some Kardashian tweeted
is cher dead that literally millions of more tweetes went out and most believe it because

Hey it was on facebook or tweet

Expect the virtol level to rise thru November and after that to go up again against the winner
in the electoral college (popular vote dont matter as we have proved at least 2 times that I recall)

[bigguy]

BOB:
I stay out of most of these threads because I get too heated. I appreciate the way you are so often able to say what I'd like to say, but in such a well considered and pleasant way. I agree with most of what you say, including the stuff I didn't know I agreed with until I read it. 
Keep up the good work.

[Bob E.]

BOB:
I stay out of most of these threads because I get too heated. I appreciate the way you are so often able to say what I'd like to say, but in such a well considered and pleasant way. I agree with most of what you say, including the stuff I didn't know I agreed with until I read it. 
Keep up the good work.

Thanks man! 

[RoadKill]

I second EVERY motion on this thread  !   

[98valk]

saul alinsky, community organizing and rules for radicals

Liberals in their meetings utter bold words; they strut, grimace belligerently, and then issue a weasel-worded statement 'which has tremendous implications, if read between the lines.' They sit calmly, dispassionately, studying the issue; judging both sides; they sit and still sit. (Alinsky 1971: 4)

The Radical may resort to the sword but when he does he is not filled with hatred against those individuals whom he attacks. He hates these individuals not as persons but as symbols representing ideas or interests which he believes to be inimical to the welfare of the people. (Alinsky 1946: 23)

Tactics for radicals
The bulk of the rest of Rules for Radicals is concerned with tactics,

5) Ridicule is man's most potent weapon (Alinsky 1972: 128).

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/alinsky.htm

[The Anvil]

saul alinsky, community organizing and rules for radicals

Liberals in their meetings utter bold words; they strut, grimace belligerently, and then issue a weasel-worded statement 'which has tremendous implications, if read between the lines.' They sit calmly, dispassionately, studying the issue; judging both sides; they sit and still sit. (Alinsky 1971: 4)

The Radical may resort to the sword but when he does he is not filled with hatred against those individuals whom he attacks. He hates these individuals not as persons but as symbols representing ideas or interests which he believes to be inimical to the welfare of the people. (Alinsky 1946: 23)

Tactics for radicals
The bulk of the rest of Rules for Radicals is concerned with tactics,

5) Ridicule is man's most potent weapon (Alinsky 1972: 128).

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/alinsky.htm

That's some serious double-talkin' jive right there.

Newsflash; not all radicals are liberals.

[RoadKill]

saul alinsky, community organizing and rules for radicals

Liberals in their meetings utter bold words; they strut, grimace belligerently, and then issue a weasel-worded statement 'which has tremendous implications, if read between the lines.' They sit calmly, dispassionately, studying the issue; judging both sides; they sit and still sit. (Alinsky 1971: 4)

The Radical may resort to the sword but when he does he is not filled with hatred against those individuals whom he attacks. He hates these individuals not as persons but as symbols representing ideas or interests which he believes to be inimical to the welfare of the people. (Alinsky 1946: 23)

Tactics for radicals
The bulk of the rest of Rules for Radicals is concerned with tactics,

5) Ridicule is man's most potent weapon (Alinsky 1972: 128).

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/alinsky.htm

That's some serious double-talkin' jive right there.

Newsflash; not all radicals are liberals.

 
Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

[3fan4life]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

[RoadKill]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

I never said it was a bad thing    Crazy extremist is what we prefer now a days! 

[Bob E.]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

I love (hate) it when someone tries to justify their position and beliefs by defining the position and beliefs of others.  Based on your 3 points, I wouldn't necessarily classify you as a right-wing extremist just because you are a veteran who goes to church and values constitutional rights. You might be, but I can't tell from here based on your description. 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Nothing wrong with being radical or extremest under some circumstances. I'd think most if not all of the founders of the US would have been considered radical and extreme at the time.

But that's off topic. I couldn't agree more with what you are saying about the hatred. I think on both sides, hatred is used to hide a lack of rational thinking.

[art]

Since the last Presidential election/campaign, I have heard such hatred from so many people aimed towards individual candidates and at the "other" party in general.  And I have to say, I hear and read more hatred from one side than the other.

Disclosure:  I am an independant with right leaning conservative and libertarian views.

As someone who grew up and went to school in NYC, I am surrounded in life (real and internet) by those that call themselves Liberal.  The absolute hatred that comes from some folks that call themselves liberal is astonishing.  I always thought that "liberal" meant "live and let live" for the most part.   

The other side is not so innocent either, but most of the hatred I've been exposed to from the Right is from the extemists, but not from everyday conservative/repubs like I've seen from the Left.  And whether you agree or not, the TEA Party has NOTHING to do with race, it is a conservative movement. They are surely right wing, but definitely not nuts.

I just read horrific lies about Santorum and Romney posted on Facebook by folks I went to school with.  These folks are not politically connected or invloved in anyone's campaigns, but yet they fire off such ugly lies, that the leftwingnuts put out there, without even finding out if there is any truth behind it.  And when you call them on it, they provide the link to the huffingtonpost and and attach your knowledge.

I can't wait till this election is over and the hatred can go back to being aimed at minorities and Jews.   

i agree politics gotten so dirty an peoples attitude is just as bad .I am sick of hearing it too.As far as race hatred is concerned that too should stop ,not that I don't have an opnion I just don't want to hear anymore crap about it.Enough is enough already.Lets pick on harley bikers Ha Ha

[BigAl]

To sum up.

Politics is just a point of view.

1. Right to Life is a sticking point for both and all.

2. Big Government and how big it is, is all the rage and has been.

3. Hatred is rampant as you say, but the Hatred is most definitely more venomous from the left.

They are Queer, Drug Legalizers, Share the Wealth Socialists, Occupyers, Eliteist Media, Elitieist Academics, but the hate is

there for all to see.

Consevatives and Independants and Some Staunch Democrats just want to get on with it.

But the Harry Rieds of the world and a Prez of the staunchest and stiff necked variety wants compromise all on their side until this

damn election gets over and there we are deadlocked until 2012.

Hatred is out there, so is hope, I hope Hope wins and not the hatred.

[3fan4life]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

I love (hate) it when someone tries to justify their position and beliefs by defining the position and beliefs of others.  Based on your 3 points, I wouldn't necessarily classify you as a right-wing extremist just because you are a veteran who goes to church and values constitutional rights. You might be, but I can't tell from here based on your description. 

Bob you both miss and make my point at the same time.

There are people within the current regime who believe that ANY SINGLE one of the points that I listed MAKES someone a RIGHT WING EXTREMIST. 

And MANY left wing liberals would agree with them.

I don't believe that I am, but they would.

[Bob E.]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?    

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company.  

I love (hate) it when someone tries to justify their position and beliefs by defining the position and beliefs of others.  Based on your 3 points, I wouldn't necessarily classify you as a right-wing extremist just because you are a veteran who goes to church and values constitutional rights. You might be, but I can't tell from here based on your description.  

There are people within the current regime who believe that ANY SINGLE one of the points that I listed MAKES someone a RIGHT WING EXTREMIST.  

Name one...with some sort of unbiased link that can be verified.  And how does my statement make your point?  You are the one trying to define what others believe.

[Serk]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?    

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company.  

I love (hate) it when someone tries to justify their position and beliefs by defining the position and beliefs of others.  Based on your 3 points, I wouldn't necessarily classify you as a right-wing extremist just because you are a veteran who goes to church and values constitutional rights. You might be, but I can't tell from here based on your description.  

There are people within the current regime who believe that ANY SINGLE one of the points that I listed MAKES someone a RIGHT WING EXTREMIST.  

Name one...with some sort of unbiased link that can be verified.  And how does my statement make your point?  You are the one trying to define what others believe.

This was from a state level government, not the federal, but I believe what they were referring to was the MIAC Report. According to it, the fact that I have a Ron Paul for President sticker on my car means there's a good chance I'm a domestic terrorist and thus should be watched closely...

Wikipedia unbiased enough?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Information_Analysis_Center

I'll admit I've never given it enough credence to read the whole thing, I just have read of it's existence. If you're so inclined, this appears to be a copy of the actual report:

The Modern Militia Movement-Missouri MIAC Strategic Report 20Feb09


Uhoh! Just glancing through it, I guess the Gadsen Flag I have on my bike AND the Molon Labe sticker ALSO mean I'm a terrorist... Guess if I get the Gadsen Flag license plate that's now available in Texas I might as well be buying a one way ticket to Gitmo!

[Bob E.]

This was from a state level government, not the federal, but I believe what they were referring to was the MIAC Report. According to it, the fact that I have a Ron Paul for President sticker on my car means there's a good chance I'm a domestic terrorist and thus should be watched closely...

Wikipedia unbiased enough?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Information_Analysis_Center

I'll admit I've never given it enough credence to read the whole thing, I just have read of it's existence. If you're so inclined, this appears to be a copy of the actual report:

The Modern Militia Movement-Missouri MIAC Strategic Report 20Feb09


Uhoh! Just glancing through it, I guess the Gadsen Flag I have on my bike AND the Molon Labe sticker ALSO mean I'm a terrorist... Guess if I get the Gadsen Flag license plate that's now available in Texas I might as well be buying a one way ticket to Gitmo!

Serk...A couple points:

First, I was challenging  3fan4life's rather disparaging and accusatory statement that "There are people within the current regime who believe that ANY SINGLE one of the points that I listed MAKES someone a RIGHT WING EXTREMIST. "  Neither of you links have anything to do with the "Current Regime" or specifically the POTUS.

Second, both of your links are essentially descriptions of the Militia movement going on in various parts of the country, and specifically Missouri.  And they mention some ways that law enforcement can use to identify potential militia members.  But those aren't absolutes.  And frankly, none of them are related to the 3 descriptors used by 3fan4life...veterans, church goers, and supporters of constitutional rights.  They talk about identifiers like the Gadsen Flag and others.  But those are just symbols that are militias tend to use to identify themselves...not the other way around.  And furthermore, thats no more  proof that someone is in a militia or an extremist than someone who wears a patch in the shape of a marijuana leaf is a pot head or that someone who rides a motorcycle is in a biker gang.

[ComradBlack]

Its all about Pie

Everybody wants a piece.

Most Americans work very hard for their piece of pie and dont mind sharing a little bit.

Some just want their pie handed to them.

Others still ... work for their pie but wish to hand pie out to everybody else who dont have pie
Unfortunately the have more selfrightous nobility than pie ... so they demand others that share pie ... share even more pie.

Thus the question is raised by those that work hard for their pie and dont mind sharing but take offence at being demanded to share more.

"What are you doing with all this Pie" ?

In return they are told they are stupid, racist and bigots and to stop clinging to their pie and pie crust.

And thus a food fight breaks out.

[x]

Its all about Pie

Everybody wants a piece.

Most Americans work very hard for their piece of pie and dont mind sharing a little bit.

Some just want their pie handed to them.

Others still ... work for their pie but wish to hand pie out to everybody else who dont have pie
Unfortunately the have more selfrightous nobility than pie ... so they demand others that share pie ... share even more pie.

Thus the question is raised by those that work hard for their pie and dont mind sharing but take offence at being demanded to share more.

"What are you doing with all this Pie" ?

In return they are told they are stupid, racist and bigots and to stop clinging to their pie and pie crust.

And thus a food fight breaks out.

Ohhh... that explains it all... NOT!

[G-Man]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

You're also a racist!   

[3fan4life]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?    

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist.  

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company.  

I love (hate) it when someone tries to justify their position and beliefs by defining the position and beliefs of others.  Based on your 3 points, I wouldn't necessarily classify you as a right-wing extremist just because you are a veteran who goes to church and values constitutional rights. You might be, but I can't tell from here based on your description.  

There are people within the current regime who believe that ANY SINGLE one of the points that I listed MAKES someone a RIGHT WING EXTREMIST.  

Name one...with some sort of unbiased link that can be verified.  And how does my statement make your point?  You are the one trying to define what others believe.

Is an official Homeland Security Document an acceptable source ?

http://www.wnd.com/images/dhs-rightwing-extremism.pdf  


Here are a few excerpts:

Military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities
could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists
capable of carrying out violent attacks.

Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are
attractive to rightwing extremists. DHS/I&A is concerned that rightwing
extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to
boost their violent capabilities.


The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist
groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from
the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.


Proposed imposition of firearms restrictions and weapons bans
likely would attract new members into the ranks of rightwing extremist groups,
as well as potentially spur some of them to begin planning and training for
violence against the government.


Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and
adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups),
and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration.

I BELIEVE that Veterans, Constitutionalist's and the Religious are all covered.

And do you recall or current POTUS' comment about people living in small towns across America ?:

Barack Obama's small town guns and religion comments	powered by Aeva

"it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion"

And then VP Biden calls The TEA PARTY a "TERRORIST" group:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60421.html


And as for your last question, are you not trying to define WHAT I believe ?  

You can take all the exception that you want with my original post.

But, You will not change my stance or my opinion.

I wrote it,

I BELIEVE it to be accurate

and I'm standing behind it.  

[musclehead]

saul alinsky, community organizing and rules for radicals

Liberals in their meetings utter bold words; they strut, grimace belligerently, and then issue a weasel-worded statement 'which has tremendous implications, if read between the lines.' They sit calmly, dispassionately, studying the issue; judging both sides; they sit and still sit. (Alinsky 1971: 4)

The Radical may resort to the sword but when he does he is not filled with hatred against those individuals whom he attacks. He hates these individuals not as persons but as symbols representing ideas or interests which he believes to be inimical to the welfare of the people. (Alinsky 1946: 23)

Tactics for radicals
The bulk of the rest of Rules for Radicals is concerned with tactics,

5) Ridicule is man's most potent weapon (Alinsky 1972: 128).

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/alinsky.htm

That's some serious double-talkin' jive right there.

Newsflash; not all radicals are liberals.

 
Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

the right wing extremists do think that violent revolution is kinda OK, in that aspect they reflect similar views as those occu-pinheads.  I've heard that line of talk from Alex Jones, and he was talking to *gasp* Jesse Ventura!

if anyone you know starts spouting rhetoric involving hate-violence-takeover-crash the system. RUN DUDE!

[b1rks]

Politics in Canada is boring. All the parties try to occupy the centre. Conservative party not much different than Demacrats. But things get done. In a boring kind of way.       American politics is a blood sport compared to us. Allot of screaming , minor changes. Fun to watch. But I'll take our form of Government any day.

[Bob E.]

3fan4life...I'm not trying to "define" what you believe.  I'm trying to change it because you made statements that are FACTUALLY wrong.  Furthermore, they are rather inflammatory and disparaging to the president, his administration, and anyone who might agree with them.  And they are illustrative of the types of comments that I think lead G-Man to start this thread in the first place.  Read the title of the thread.  So, for those reasons I challenged you on your statements.

As to your "facts"...

The DHS document does not support your arguement and here's why.  The DHS document is describing the types of people that often make up right-wing extremist groups...people like veterans because of their skills in military tactics and weapons.  But that's a far cry from stating that all vets are right-wing extremists.  In fact, your own quote states, "...a small percentage of military personnel..."  So your arguement is like stating that police know that most rapists are men...therefore police believe that most men are rapists.  That's ludicrous.

Second, as to the President's "clinging to guns and religion" quote...he wasn't even talking about right wing extremists.  So it isn't relevent to your statements.  He was talking about how people, especially in rural areas, react when they are insecure and scared about their futures.  And if you think it isn't true, just look at this board as a microcosm of society.  Look at how many threads, especially back in 2008-2009 that mentioned stocking up on ammo and how there is an ammo shortage because of all of the people stocking up.  Hell, there's a live thread on here now with some posts about this very subject. Similarly, would you argue with the statement that many people turn to prayer when times get tough...like they were back when the economy was crashing?  It wasn't a disparaging comment as many of the conservative media spun it.

And finally, Biden's comment regarding the Tea Party is similarly irrelevant to your original statements.  It had nothing to do with right-wing extremists at all.  It didn't have anything to do with veterans, religion, or the constitution.  He was agreeing with someone who likened the tactics of the tea party representatives as being like negotiating with terrorists because they were holding America hostage during the debt ceiling debate and because they were actually willing to hurt the country to get what they wanted.  And they ended up succeeding in hurting the country by having our credit rating lowered.  And S&P specifically called out this group of Republicans and their behavior as the reason they lowered the rating.

You can believe what you want.  It's a free country.  And you are right, I'm unlikely to change your mind.  But when you make those sorts of comments, you should be prepared to defend them when someone like me challenges them.

[3fan4life]

Bob,

Look back at my original post:

According to the current POTUS and most many liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

As you can see I am willing to change the word most to many but that's it.

As far as comments that might be disparaging to Mr. Obama and his supporters,  I do believe that the current POTUS harbors a great disdain if not even an outright hatred of the citizens that he highlighted in his "Religion and Guns" remark during his campaign.

To me his remarks were NOT simply a statement of fact as you seem to believe. I think that these remarks were the man's "True Colors" shining through, revealing his contempt for people that have the "Audacity" to turn to GOD or SELF RELIANCE and not look to the government for help in times of trouble.       

Actually given his unprecedented level of arrogance he might even feel that way towards "ALL" of his constituents (and no I don't know this as a fact it's just a supposition).

I drew this conclusion by listening to his comments with my own ears, not by listening to "conservative" media.

I don't even watch or listen to the so called conservative media, Not because I dislike or distrust them, I just have better things to do with my time.

The DHS document calls out Veterans, Religious groups, and people upset about gun control (2nd Amendment) as potential terrorists.

That pretty much covers all three of my points.

No it doesn't say "ALL" but it doesn't specifically exclude anyone either. 


Biden's comments comparing the Tea Party to terrorists is relevant in light of reports that DHS was filming participants at Tea Party rallies around the country.

My question is why have Tea Party participants been investigated as "potential" terrorists and the Occupy Wall Street participants have not ?

In my opinion the latter group is much more radical. 

AS far as defending my comments, Quite frankly I cannot understand why you felt compelled to take exception to them.

I was simply stating that there are those within the current administration and the left wing that would consider myself or anyone else who fits "ANY" of the listed criteria a right wing extremist. 

If you are trying to argue that NO liberals believe these things, you're on some pretty "shaky" ground.

I have had people with liberal leanings tell me face to face that I am an extremist for simply owning a gun. I was actually told that there was NO reason for ANYONE in America to own a gun, because the POLICE are there to protect you.

I have had people call me a religious extremist for believing in God and for believing that the Bible is his word.

I haven't had anyone personally attack me for being a veteran, but my two older brothers who are Vietnam Veterans have.

I don't consider myself to be a right wing extremist by any means. The way I see it my views are moderate,  leaning just slightly to the "right" of center.

But to anyone leaning way to the left, my views are so far from theirs that I may be a "Right Wing Extremist"  in their eyes. 

[3fan4life]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

You're also a racist!   

Sadly there are many who "THROW" the race card the minute that someone doesn't agree with the current POTUS.

To me people who insist that the "ONLY" reason to not agree with or like the man is the color of his skin are the "RACISTS".

Personally there are many things about the man that I dislike and disdain, the COLOR of his skin is NOT and has NEVER been one of them.

[Bob E.]

3fan4life...The only reason I took exception to your statements is that I believe them to be factually wrong, and fly in the face of the original topic of this thread.  So I merely asked you to back up your rather broad-brush negative statements, especially with regard to Obama and his administration, with verifiable facts.  And when what you provided didn't hold water, I questioned that and pointed out what I believed to be the faults with those "facts".

With regard to the DHS, you are still clinging to the same arguement that since the DHS identifies extremist groups as often being made up of veterans, then the DHS must have it out for all veterans.  I already demonstrated why this is not a valid arguement. Also you mention the DHS doing surveillance of Tea Party Rallies, but not Occupy Rallies.  How do you know that DHS isn't watching them?  I'd be willing to bet they are...and should be.  That is their job, to monitor potential movement groups for possible terrorist activities and to protect the public from them.  But that doesn't mean that they believe they are terrorists. 

It is unfortunate that you have such disdain for our president.  I wish I knew why that was.  But your disdain distorts your views such that you cannot see the good and actually look for the bad.  You heard his "clinging to guns and religion" comment as arrogance.  I heard it as empathy and understanding of those people fearful of their futures.

So I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one. No hard feelings.

[Bob E.]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

You're also a racist!   

Sadly there are many who "THROW" the race card the minute that someone doesn't agree with the current POTUS.

To me people who insist that the "ONLY" reason to not agree with or like the man is the color of his skin are the "RACISTS".

Personally there are many things about the man that I dislike and disdain, the COLOR of his skin is NOT and has NEVER been one of them.

Some people are racist and should be called out for it.  But not everyone who disagrees with the president is accused of being racist.  Look at Romney and Gingrich.  Both of them disagree, but only Gingrich is being accused of being racist.  His racism is subtle, but real.  And if he wasn't so intelligent and "good" at debate and firing up his supporters, I might even think it wasn't totally intentional.  But I believe he knows exactly what he is doing and saying. And I've even seen other more respectable Republicans say that some of his comments are inappropriate.

[98valk]

Do you think maybe the term 'RIGHT WING EXTREMIST' fits into the term 'radicals' ?   

According to the current POTUS and most liberals:

1. I am a Veteran and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

2. I believe that the government should not violate my constitutional rights and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

3. I go to church and I believe that the Bible is the word of God and that makes me a right wing extremist. 

I am willing to bet that "MOST" of the members here fall into one or more of these categories and are therefore also considered to be right wing extremist.

Which I think puts me in with some pretty good company. 

You're also a racist!   

Sadly there are many who "THROW" the race card the minute that someone doesn't agree with the current POTUS.

To me people who insist that the "ONLY" reason to not agree with or like the man is the color of his skin are the "RACISTS".

Personally there are many things about the man that I dislike and disdain, the COLOR of his skin is NOT and has NEVER been one of them.

Some people are racist and should be called out for it.  But not everyone who disagrees with the president is accused of being racist.  Look at Romney and Gingrich.  Both of them disagree, but only Gingrich is being accused of being racist.  His racism is subtle, but real.  And if he wasn't so intelligent and "good" at debate and firing up his supporters, I might even think it wasn't totally intentional.  But I believe he knows exactly what he is doing and saying. And I've even seen other more respectable Republicans say that some of his comments are inappropriate.

obama is white, newt is white, is this white racism u talk about?

a concerned european-american

[The Anvil]

Politics in Canada is boring.

I was going to say that I'll take boring but effective over entertaining but stagnant 10 time out of 10 but you kind of beat me to it.

[JimmyG]

Has anyone read, "How to Kill 11 million people"?   I find it hard to believe that any of us would believe any of them (politicians).
OK, I am going to confess, I am a County Commissioner. I do not consider myself a politician or a big shot. I try to be a servant to the folks I represent.  I am a Veteran, Christian, Southerner, and I am an independent thinker that really tries to look at all sides of a question. At best it is difficult to please anyone when involved with government, even on my small scale,(county of about 15,000). when asked if I am Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal, my answer is,"I am an American".  You can ask me anything and I will answer, if it is a clear choice to answer.  Sometimes I answer,"I don't know, let me study it and get back to you on that". 
Now to try to get back on context a little anyway. One of the questions asked in this very short book is in so many words, who, of the senate or congress, believes that the current tax  code is easy to understand and is fair and needs no fixing at all?  Well, the answer is none of them will admit to that, they all say it needs to be revamped, revised, made easier, etc,etc.   So why don't they fix it?  Yeah, kind of a simple example I know, but it does bring ya back to zero a little.  All them guys,(generalizing here),  are for themselves. Does anyone really think any of them understand how we live, or are trying to just get by and pay our bills without any frills?  I agree with one thing, we need honorable, truth telling, America serving representatives doing what's right for our country. Yeah, idealistic I know, but heck, would you rather have , lying, cheating,  :roll:dishonorable, self serving, un-american representatives running this country?