Harley Question

[3fan4life]

My brother in Florida bought a 2008 Sportster 883,

he likes riding slow through the National forest, checking out wildlife and is wondering:

Just how slow is TOO slow on a hot summer day ?

He's concerned about keeping enough air flowing over the motor to keep it from burning up.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

My brother in Florida bought a 2008 Sportster 883,

he likes riding slow through the National forest, checking out wildlife and is wondering:

Just how slow is TOO slow on a hot summer day ?

He's concerned about keeping enough air flowing over the motor to keep it from burning up.

I've been with Big Al going thru Gatlinburg checking out the women and seen him cutting the motor off between lights....I'm so glad I did'nt buy a Harley in 1998 

[RoadKill]

Oil temp. gauge will help him keep an eye on the changes. 

[The Anvil]

My 1999 X1 was in a much higher state of tune than any 883 and I never had any overheating issues, even on very hot days. Nor did I ever have any overheating issues on my FLSTF for that matter. Most of the horror stories you hear about H-D's and their heat problems are myths, ignorance and paranoia.

Now, they WILL overheat on on hot days while sitting still but it takes a while. Tell him to run 20W50 synthetic, use the extended capacity Dyna filters and if it's run a lot in high heat then change it more frequently. Remapping (especially late model H-D's that are very lean from the factory) or re-jetting will help further but I think he'll be fine.

[fudgie]

If he is moving, he is good. In Sturgis, I've been in line going thru town which takes 15 min to go 2 blocks and none had any issues. Even when its a 100 out. But back in 02 when the road to the Chip was 2 lanes, its now 4, we counted 112 bikes pulled over waiting for the line to decrease. Took a half hour to go a 1/2 mile. They had heat issues. It was night time to.

[bigfish_Oh]

I did just get a LeNale Cooling Fan last week I'll be putting on, the company is on ebay.

Harley does make a "parade fan". I've read, twice the $ as this and not as good

[dave011182]

They do not like to sit or move slow in high heat, The police bikes have the fan on them.
It wasn't too hot out the day I borrowed my dads electraglide for me and the wife to go out before I got  my valk and you could tell it didn't like the heat. Somewhere in the 90's. It gets pretty humid here in Virginia Beach too, the wife commented on the heat from the bike also. Even with 20-50 I found myself constantly watching the oil pressure gauge concerned, listening to all the engine chatter whenever we stopped, but everyone I've talked to said this was normal for them.

[art]

back in 99 my friend had a 1200 sporty an I had an 1100 shadow aero going on up to jerome az. slow traffic he could not make it .he overheated an I had to stop an wait for him.my shadow never skipped a beat.

[Tropic traveler]

Rule of thumb with automobiles is above 35 mph airflow through the radiator is enough to render the fan useless. I would imagine that roughly the same speed would be required to keep an air cooled motorcycle properly cooled. I'm fairly sure the rear cylinder of a V-twin would catch most of the hell from lack of airflow at low speeds.
I don't plan to ever find out first hand about air cooled V-twin powered motorcycles low speed cooling problems, but I have witnessed many bumper to bumper traffic situations {Bike Weeks} where a very noticable amount of American made non-water cooled motorcycles were taking cooldown time outs on the sidewalks.
But while they did take their time-outs, they looked totally bad-assed!         

[Johnnycomel8ly]

Pretty good old HD but give the Valkyrie her due, cuzz I know she's better than you.

[BigAl]

Does not matter what kind of bike I ride, when it's a 100 degree day.

It ain't fun stoppin.

and startin for 3 miles.

On a bike.

Your buddy will be fine on the smallest Harley they make now the 883.

As long as he does not sit still for more than 10 minutes and keeps moving an air cooled all aluminum Harley will not melt down.

The old Iron Jugged and Iron Headed ones however may have problems.

110's have problems as well.

But I would not set that long on a Valk, you have a water cooled bike but it ain't like a car, 20 minutes max

is all the manufactureer of water cooled bikes recommends as length of time to set still without air

going though the radiator. My Vulcan Mean Streak says that in the manual, when I had one.

The little fan just helps for a while.

[Jess Tolbirt]

My harley has a thing that it goes into parade mode if it gets hot.. the rear cylinder cuts off and basically becomes an air pump to cool it down then its like a single cyl 750cc one lunger,,at least thats what the manual says,,,

[Valkahuna]

IT'S AIR COOLED!!!! That means that some airflow is required. It's why when you put it onto a dyno they put a big a$$ fan pointing at it.

I've been in a lot of traffic jams with my HDs, both past an present. When riding in a Vet Parade at stopping and then walking pace, they get hot enough to actually shut-down. In a long traffic jam, I turn on the 4 way flashers and slowly run the break down lane to the next exit. When in towns like Daytona during bike week, with traffic it's hot enough to ping like crazy and shut-off. Same with DC and rolling thunder. And yes Anvil, I am not paranoid, have probably put a ton more miles on my bikes than you have, keep my bike in excellent mechanical tune. IT'S AIR COOLED!!! and if there is no air flow, you are screwed. Even my old air head beemer gets so hot the pipes glow when standing still for extended period of time. Like I said, they are AIR COOLED.

If your buddy keeps his HD moving, even slowly, he'll be fine. Remember, there have been MCs for a lot longer than there have been liquid cooled engines, and folks did not park them in the summer. BTW, I brought the HD to Connecticut, and the Valk down here to Florida for exactly the reason that a liquid cooled motor is vastly superior to an air cooled in the heat, when not moving. And since I can't always control the heat, or the movement of traffic, the choice was easy.

BTW- this "Parade Mode" crap that HD claims to alleviate the temp issues is a band aid simply because of the stuff I stated above. All they do is to shut the fuel off to the rear cylinder injector, and the rear cylinder just "free wheels"  being turned by the front cylinder. Far from perfect, and actually kind of archaic. I will not own a HD after they started with the 96 inch motor in 2007, until they start putting liquid cooled engines in them. And I basically love HD, but not with the after 2006 engines. When moving, it's as good a bike as any out there, but like I said, I can't control the weather or traffic. JMOYMV.

[The Anvil]

I've been in a lot of traffic jams with my HDs, both past an present. When riding in a Vet Parade at stopping and then walking pace, they get hot enough to actually shut-down. In a long traffic jam, I turn on the 4 way flashers and slowly run the break down lane to the next exit. When in towns like Daytona during bike week, with traffic it's hot enough to ping like crazy and shut-off. Same with DC and rolling thunder. And yes Anvil, I am not paranoid, have probably put a ton more miles on my bikes than you have, keep my bike in excellent mechanical tune. IT'S AIR COOLED!!! and if there is no air flow, you are screwed. Even my old air head beemer gets so hot the pipes glow when standing still for extended period of time. Like I said, they are AIR COOLED.

Actually to say they're "air cooled" isn't entirely accurate. They're actually air/oil cooled which is why your oil capacity and the type you use can make a considerable difference.

Have you ridden more miles than me? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't really see why that matters. If you had paid any attention you'd see that we actually agree on the subject.

[PAVALKER]

Hmmmmm     the "air" cools off the oil in the oil cooler as it does the rest of the engine (over the heads/fins).... so it is air cooled.  Without the air the oil doesn't cool.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

My harley has a thing that it goes into parade mode if it gets hot.. the rear cylinder cuts off and basically becomes an air pump to cool it down then its like a single cyl 750cc one lunger,,at least thats what the manual says,,,

WOW ....That makes me want too rush out and buy one   

[Johnnycomel8ly]

Harley is the most over rated bike on the planet . I owned an 06 ultra Classic sold it found me a real bike((Valkyrie Interstate)) 

[The Anvil]

Hmmmmm     the "air" cools off the oil in the oil cooler as it does the rest of the engine (over the heads/fins).... so it is air cooled.  Without the air the oil doesn't cool.

Air cools the coolant in your radiator so without the air your engine doesn't cool so your Valkyrie is air cooled.

Do you see the flaw in your logic?

[Jess Tolbirt]

My harley has a thing that it goes into parade mode if it gets hot.. the rear cylinder cuts off and basically becomes an air pump to cool it down then its like a single cyl 750cc one lunger,,at least thats what the manual says,,,

WOW ....That makes me want too rush out and buy one   

why the sarcastic come back? i was just telling what it does?

[BigAl]

With it flaws I will take ole Blue over any bike made.

Valkyrire has plenty of flaws in its own right.

Getting a little bit warm is not that bad.

Water cooling don't keep the splines lubed, or the fuel mileage good.

At least I can get parts for my out moded ride.

Not something you ole boys can say.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

My harley has a thing that it goes into parade mode if it gets hot.. the rear cylinder cuts off and basically becomes an air pump to cool it down then its like a single cyl 750cc one lunger,,at least thats what the manual says,,,

WOW ....That makes me want too rush out and buy one  

why the sarcastic come back? i was just telling what it does?

Did'nt mean to be sarcastic ....If you dig that sort of thing more power to ya    Myself I don't do parades or porker runs for that matter.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

With it flaws I will take ole Blue over any bike made.

Valkyrire has plenty of flaws in its own right.

Getting a little bit warm is not that bad.

Water cooling don't keep the splines lubed, or the fuel mileage good.

At least I can get parts for my out moded ride.

Not something you ole boys can say.

Just a quick Google came up with about 10 pages of Harley forums. I can lube my splines and I have gas money and the biggie I'm not ridin' a bike that looks like every other one on the road  

[Westsider]

Run a GOOD oil cooler, if he isnt allready. and like anvil said remap or rejet richer.. hd sells them way to lean to get past e.p.a.  


2008 guessing a remap

[Chrome]

With it flaws I will take ole Blue over any bike made.

Valkyrire has plenty of flaws in its own right.

Getting a little bit warm is not that bad.

Water cooling don't keep the splines lubed, or the fuel mileage good.

At least I can get parts for my out moded ride.

Not something you ole boys can say.

Then what are you doing here?

Chrome

[Jess Tolbirt]

My harley has a thing that it goes into parade mode if it gets hot.. the rear cylinder cuts off and basically becomes an air pump to cool it down then its like a single cyl 750cc one lunger,,at least thats what the manual says,,,

WOW ....That makes me want too rush out and buy one   

why the sarcastic come back? i was just telling what it does?

Did'nt mean to be sarcastic ....If you dig that sort of thing more power to ya    Myself I don't do parades or porker runs for that matter.

sorry, i took it wrong,,,i dont do parades either and last summer i did get into stop and go traffic but only for a few minutes and i didnt notice any thing happening...o yea,,mine doesnt look like every other bike out there,,if it did they would all look alike,,

[Valkahuna]

I've been in a lot of traffic jams with my HDs, both past an present. When riding in a Vet Parade at stopping and then walking pace, they get hot enough to actually shut-down. In a long traffic jam, I turn on the 4 way flashers and slowly run the break down lane to the next exit. When in towns like Daytona during bike week, with traffic it's hot enough to ping like crazy and shut-off. Same with DC and rolling thunder. And yes Anvil, I am not paranoid, have probably put a ton more miles on my bikes than you have, keep my bike in excellent mechanical tune. IT'S AIR COOLED!!! and if there is no air flow, you are screwed. Even my old air head beemer gets so hot the pipes glow when standing still for extended period of time. Like I said, they are AIR COOLED.

Actually to say they're "air cooled" isn't entirely accurate. They're actually air/oil cooled which is why your oil capacity and the type you use can make a considerable difference.

Have you ridden more miles than me? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't really see why that matters. If you had paid any attention you'd see that we actually agree on the subject.

Most of the horror stories you hear about H-D's and their heat problems are myths, ignorance and paranoia.

While the rest of your post is factual, this part is not, and is the part I take exception to. Not a big deal, but even if you do all the things you mention, in hot weather they still get hot, ping, burn the crap out of your inner thighs, and even shut down when hot enough. I (and most HD seasoned riders, or the dealers when the rider complains, which most do) have done all the "preventive measures" and it still gets hot. And yes, I realize that in the Twin Cam motors, they do direct a "jet" of oil spray at the underside of the piston to try to cool it down. Problem is that at Idle (which is what you get sitting or barely rolling) the oil pressure in most modern HDs goes to almost nothing.

Bottom line, no comparison to a liquid cooled engine, and IMHO, the weak point of HD.

Keep in mind that I still love my HD, but they could really fix this part and it would be a lot better. 

[BigAl]

With it flaws I will take ole Blue over any bike made.

Valkyrire has plenty of flaws in its own right.

Getting a little bit warm is not that bad.

Water cooling don't keep the splines lubed, or the fuel mileage good.

At least I can get parts for my out moded ride.

Not something you ole boys can say.

Then what are you doing here?

Chrome

Free Country son, a lot of these folks don't won Valkyries, I could name a bunch. Just take a chill pill it will be allright.

[BigAl]

With it flaws I will take ole Blue over any bike made.

Valkyrire has plenty of flaws in its own right.

Getting a little bit warm is not that bad.

Water cooling don't keep the splines lubed, or the fuel mileage good.

At least I can get parts for my out moded ride.

Not something you ole boys can say.

Just a quick Google came up with about 10 pages of Harley forums. I can lube my splines and I have gas money and the biggie I'm not ridin' a bike that looks like every other one on the road  

Except one thing all Valkyries look the same and that is the truth.

[The Anvil]

I've been in a lot of traffic jams with my HDs, both past an present. When riding in a Vet Parade at stopping and then walking pace, they get hot enough to actually shut-down. In a long traffic jam, I turn on the 4 way flashers and slowly run the break down lane to the next exit. When in towns like Daytona during bike week, with traffic it's hot enough to ping like crazy and shut-off. Same with DC and rolling thunder. And yes Anvil, I am not paranoid, have probably put a ton more miles on my bikes than you have, keep my bike in excellent mechanical tune. IT'S AIR COOLED!!! and if there is no air flow, you are screwed. Even my old air head beemer gets so hot the pipes glow when standing still for extended period of time. Like I said, they are AIR COOLED.

Actually to say they're "air cooled" isn't entirely accurate. They're actually air/oil cooled which is why your oil capacity and the type you use can make a considerable difference.

Have you ridden more miles than me? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't really see why that matters. If you had paid any attention you'd see that we actually agree on the subject.

Most of the horror stories you hear about H-D's and their heat problems are myths, ignorance and paranoia.

While the rest of your post is factual, this part is not, and is the part I take exception to. Not a big deal, but even if you do all the things you mention, in hot weather they still get hot, ping, burn the crap out of your inner thighs, and even shut down when hot enough. I (and most HD seasoned riders, or the dealers when the rider complains, which most do) have done all the "preventive measures" and it still gets hot. And yes, I realize that in the Twin Cam motors, they do direct a "jet" of oil spray at the underside of the piston to try to cool it down. Problem is that at Idle (which is what you get sitting or barely rolling) the oil pressure in most modern HDs goes to almost nothing.

Bottom line, no comparison to a liquid cooled engine, and IMHO, the weak point of HD.

Keep in mind that I still love my HD, but they could really fix this part and it would be a lot better. 

Note that I said "most" of the horror stories and I stand by that. There's a ton of misinformation about H-D out there and the idea that a properly tuned H-D overheats at the drop of a hat is just wrong. Neither of my H-D overheated even once and I rode them in traffic in 95 degree weather on several occasions. Yes they got hot, yest they could roast your leg (particularly my X1) but they never once stopped running due to heat.

OTOH, my liquid cooled ZX7 DID overheat on a couple of occasions and it was liquid cooled. Why did it overheat? Because the radiator and coolant capacity was too small. My 954RR never shut down on me but got very close a couple of times and for the same reason.

It's a flat-out myth that air and oil cooling is inherently less reliable than liquid cooling. A poorly designed liquid cooling circuit will shed engine heat less effectively than a properly designed air/oil cooled engine will under certain conditions. They made many thousands of air/oil cooled VW bugs and Porsches, many of which are still running. Same with aviation reciprocating engines as almost all of them currently flying are air/oil cooled. If you lose the "water" coolant in your engine due to a burst hose or fitting then you are HOSED. Not having it in the first place means not needing it at all, bonus for simplicity and reliability. Air/oil cooled Honda XR motors are practically indestructible. Liquid cooled CR-F motors? They go pop on a regular basis.

I'm sorry but there's no real-world justification for your bias against air and oil cooling.

[fon1961]

harley related threads always seem to create alot of tension no matter how innocent the thing starts out  .
 

[The Anvil]

harley related threads always seem to create alot of tension no matter how innocent the thing starts out  .
 

There's no tension over here, I just like to keep the facts straight. There's a fundamental lack of understanding among many people in the motorcycle community and both sides are guilty.

[fon1961]

anvil, my post was applicable to the thread in general not your post(s).  just cause i don't always agree with you doesnt mean that you cause me tension (or that you're wrong for that matter).   

[Johnnycomel8ly]

I"m with you macdoesit you just said it all.

[BigAl]

Well let's see it started off,I HAVE A HARLEY QUESTION,

DUH DUDE.

SO we answered the dude and every body goes to hatin the Harley like wow don't aska dumb question if you

don't want an answer.