Is stupidity running rampant, or am I just intolerant? (Way long)

[Momz]

Had a couple of frustratingly bad days lately, so I decided to go for a short ride, sit by the river and contemplate at a nearby park. I got a cup of coffee at the concession stand and found an empty picnic table overlooking the channel.

This is a popular spot for bikers to stop and gather, but I just wanted to sit and reflect on the past days events. There were two other bikers at another table and they were just BSing loudly and their conversation started to turn to old motorcycles. I would guess they were about my age (50 - 60) and these guys were going on about Ariels, Vincents, and other old makes. But everything they said was WRONG or mistaken or just plain stupid.

OK, I will admit that I'm a weird sort; a history buff and a motorcycle trivia nut. I've grew up in Mowtown and I've been riding for close to forty years and have always been facinated by cars and motorcycles, thus my intellectual moto-trivia.

At one point in their conversation, one guy starts to talk about a local M/C shop owner that had a 1942 Indian four cylinder and he stated that when the owner would start that old Indian, that it was so smooth and quiet running that it would be mistaken for a Moto Guzzi. (MOTO GUZZI?.... MGs are air cooled V-twins and not known for a smooth idle) (Oh,...by the way I also know that M/C shop owner, a former neighbor)

The other guy starts in about a 1977 HD that was the most reliable bike he'd ever owned, due to the fact that it had a Bendix carburator. He then goes on to say that the government and the EPA banned the use because it was too good. (Too good?......I thought that it may have not been able to allow for proper EPA emission levels)

One guy was saying that HD and Indian were rivals back in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and fifties. (True) But they did things directly opposite to each other to confuse consumers. (?) He said that HD had a right hand throttle and that Indian had a left hand trottle. (WRONG) HD had a front brake on the right bar and Indian had it's rear brake control on the left bar. (Must be the medication) HD had their carb on the right side and Indian had theirs on the left. ( Not all harleys dude!) HD and Indian had their drive chains on opposite sides of the rear wheel because the Indian motor ran backward. (?...I'll have what he's smoking) He also claimed that Indians did not have oil tanks under the seats (true) and ran the oil in the frame. (wrong again.....oil was carried in the upper portion of the left tank) He then went on to say that they were such rival companies that the factories were directly across the street from each other. (He may have failed Geography....HD were made in Milwaukee WI and Indians were made in Springfield MA....more like 1/3 the way across the country than across the street) He also said that Indian went bankrupt in 1967 when Royal Endfield refused to sell Indians in Europe. (Indian ceased production in 1953.....however there were several makes that had bought the rights to the Indian Brand name and there were some Endfields badged as Indians)

I heard them talk about how Triumph bought BSA (more like the other way around) and the Norton "Golden Commando". (BSA made a model called the Golden Flash and several Gold Star models, while Norton made Commandos and Combat Commandos in several variations).

I did not want to listen to their ramblings, but what I did hear was as stupid as just about anything I've ever heard. These two could probably find work as a comedy duo. I could have interrupted them and corrected them on most every point, but I was at the river to just to think. But now,....I know now.......YOU CANNOT FIX STUPID!!!!

[T.P.]

HEY MOMZ !  What a great story, you sure do hear lots of the wrong info from bikers who think they know it all.

[Dogg]

there was a bsa that was modified with a norton "commando" motor, hence giving it a name like "golden commando". It was primarily used by original  cafe racers in england. the bsa was lighter, the norton motor stronger giving it that unbeatable rep for a while.

I dont know how it came to be nor the exact details of it. I dont even know how long they lasted. but at the motorcycle museum that used to be in maggy valley, he had one and he said yes, it was wicked fast.lol

I am not claiming to know ANYTHING, lol, just stating what I have seen, heard and read. If you know MORE about this bike, I would like to know, since it has bothered me not being able to find a source of information for it. Thanks.

and I agree, you cant fix stupid.

[f6john]

 in ten or fifteen years those two guys will think back to that day with fond memories of some free time spent together talking about old times and old motorcycles. I've met a lot of people who don't seem to be able to remember things just as they were and the need to embellish seems to rise to the surface. Heck they might even remember that good looking gal over at the next table that seemed to be listening to their conservation but never said anything

[Madmike]

company that used to make the Ariel motorcycles???  This is something that I have wondered about from time to time ..... if the motorcycles was their start........


I answered my own question but I'll share the results, Ariel Corp came about because of the founders interest in motorcycles and early ownership of an Ariel bike...


http://www.arielcorp.com/ariel.aspx?id=459

[R J]

One guy was saying that HD and Indian were rivals back in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and fifties. (True) But they did things directly opposite to each other to confuse consumers. (?) He said that HD had a right hand throttle and that Indian had a left hand throttle. (WRONG)

 

Indians and Harley were competitors of each other TRUE. but you missed it on the throttle location.

Harley was right hand and Indian was left hand.   I think it would be pretty hard to handle a hand shift on the right and also the throttle with the same hand.

Indian, throttle left side, spark advance and gear shift on left side, don't remember on the front brake, but I think it was on the right side also.

My dad owned a old 4 cylinder Indian and that was the 1st bike I learned to ride on.......  I put many a mile on that old girl in the pasture, rain, sun and even snow a couple of times.

I would love to see a link in the cyber land that verifies your statement.   In the meantime, I'll do some digging to back up my statements.......

Sorry.....

 http://community.motozania.com/_Finished-47-Chief-a/photo/2309910/29029.html

Picture wouldn't post, but this link will take you there.

I do believe that is a gear shift on the right side, and it looks like the front brake was on the right side also, cause it had a foot clutch.

[Momz]

Madmike,
Ariel became part of BSA in 1944 and ceased production in 1970. The Ariel company in your post is not the same company, but an interesting bit of histroy anyway.

Ride happy

[Momz]

RJ,
The Indian throttle was rotated forward to give it more throttle, every other M/C I've ever seen was just the opposite. That is you rotate the throttle toward you to give more throttle . There may have been both right hand as well as left hand tank shifters if the bike was odered as a a "Police Duty and Pursuit" unit.


1953 Roadmaster w/left side shift

However the rear brakes were never controlled by a right side hand lever.

Ride happy

[Tropic traveler]

Yes, stupidity does run rampant.

Wanna know the worst part of the ignorant people syndrome?...  THEY CAN VOTE TOO!!!!!   

[Doc Moose]

Wanna know the worst part of the ignorant people syndrome?...  THEY CAN VOTE TOO!!!!!   

And they did!   

[..]

Tribsa - Triumph frame with BSA engine

Triton - Triumph frame with Norton engine

Norvin - Norton frame with Vincent engine

Good photos here
http://www.caferacermag.com/galleryi.html

[R J]

Wanna know the worst part of the ignorant people syndrome?...  THEY CAN VOTE TOO!!!!!   

And they did!   

And they also reproduce...........

[R J]

RJ,
The Indian throttle was rotated forward to give it more throttle, every other M/C I've ever seen was just the opposite. That is you rotate the throttle toward you to give more throttle . There may have been both right hand as well as left hand tank shifters if the bike was ordered as a a "Police Duty and Pursuit" unit.


1953 Roadmaster w/left side shift

However the rear brakes were never controlled by a right side hand lever.

Ride happy

My dad's 4 banger Indian had a roll towards ya left hand throttle, right hand shift, front brake on the right handle bar along with the spark advance and a right side rear foot brake.....

Never rode a Police Indian so I can't vouch for them.

I wish I still had all those pictures of it and my CHP career.   Lost em in a flooded basement in about 1976 I think it was.  It was mom's basement.  We had been shipping stuff to her to keep so we wouldn't have to move it if I got reassigned again.

1st reassignment we moved with 2 cars and 2 trailers.  Next move was a straight truck, 2 trips, and the 2 cars and trailers.   After that it went to semi's, and 1 car trailer, then 2 cars & trailers.  When we moved back here it was 2 semi's and they hauled everything, clothes, toys, furniture, dishes, lawn mower, motorcycle(s) 3 cars and other misc junk.   We got on a flyin machine and was here in 13 hours........

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

That kind of thing happens on all subjects.

I bought some lead for bullet casting recently from a really nice father and son. The dad was a fellow NAHC life member and NRA life member.

However, they wanted to make sure I knew that lead bullets were illegal for self-defense. Not true to my knowledge. Then they shared many other untrue bits of legal and firearms lore with me.

It’s been my experience that the more you know about most subjects the more you realize you don’t know so I just nodded my head and thanked them for the info in case they were somehow privy to info which I was not.

[Dogg]

Tribsa - Triumph frame with BSA engine

Triton - Triumph frame with Norton engine

Norvin - Norton frame with Vincent engine

Good photos here
http://www.caferacermag.com/galleryi.html

I knew there was a mix for a while. just got the bikes mixed up. Thank you sir!!

[PharmBoy]

Stupid can be fixed, but I think that you could go to jail for fixing it, so let the stupid rave on and be happy thinking that they really know something...JTL   

[alph]

SO NOW WE KNOW THE TRUETH!!   RJ IS STILL LIVING IN HIS MOTHERS BASEMENT!! 

Sure it was back in '76....

Just joking, those guys must have been Cliff Klaiven and his twin brother (from "Cheers").

You’ve really have to enjoy people like that though, they probably saw Momz cycle and wanted to be part of the real cycle crowd 

Al.

[Skeeter (Va)]

Had a couple of frustratingly bad days lately, so I decided to go for a short ride, sit by the river and contemplate at a nearby park. I got a cup of coffee at the concession stand and found an empty picnic table overlooking the channel.

This is a popular spot for bikers to stop and gather, but I just wanted to sit and reflect on the past days events. There were two other bikers at another table and they were just BSing loudly and their conversation started to turn to old motorcycles. I would guess they were about my age (50 - 60) and these guys were going on about Ariels, Vincents, and other old makes. But everything they said was WRONG or mistaken or just plain stupid.

OK, I will admit that I'm a weird sort; a history buff and a motorcycle trivia nut. I've grew up in Mowtown and I've been riding for close to forty years and have always been facinated by cars and motorcycles, thus my intellectual moto-trivia.

At one point in their conversation, one guy starts to talk about a local M/C shop owner that had a 1942 Indian four cylinder and he stated that when the owner would start that old Indian, that it was so smooth and quiet running that it would be mistaken for a Moto Guzzi. (MOTO GUZZI?.... MGs are air cooled V-twins and not known for a smooth idle) (Oh,...by the way I also know that M/C shop owner, a former neighbor)

The other guy starts in about a 1977 HD that was the most reliable bike he'd ever owned, due to the fact that it had a Bendix carburator. He then goes on to say that the government and the EPA banned the use because it was too good. (Too good?......I thought that it may have not been able to allow for proper EPA emission levels)

One guy was saying that HD and Indian were rivals back in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and fifties. (True) But they did things directly opposite to each other to confuse consumers. (?) He said that HD had a right hand throttle and that Indian had a left hand trottle. (WRONG) HD had a front brake on the right bar and Indian had it's rear brake control on the left bar. (Must be the medication) HD had their carb on the right side and Indian had theirs on the left. ( Not all harleys dude!) HD and Indian had their drive chains on opposite sides of the rear wheel because the Indian motor ran backward. (?...I'll have what he's smoking) He also claimed that Indians did not have oil tanks under the seats (true) and ran the oil in the frame. (wrong again.....oil was carried in the upper portion of the left tank) He then went on to say that they were such rival companies that the factories were directly across the street from each other. (He may have failed Geography....HD were made in Milwaukee WI and Indians were made in Springfield MA....more like 1/3 the way across the country than across the street) He also said that Indian went bankrupt in 1967 when Royal Endfield refused to sell Indians in Europe. (Indian ceased production in 1953.....however there were several makes that had bought the rights to the Indian Brand name and there were some Endfields badged as Indians)

I heard them talk about how Triumph bought BSA (more like the other way around) and the Norton "Golden Commando". (BSA made a model called the Golden Flash and several Gold Star models, while Norton made Commandos and Combat Commandos in several variations).

I did not want to listen to their ramblings, but what I did hear was as stupid as just about anything I've ever heard. These two could probably find work as a comedy duo. I could have interrupted them and corrected them on most every point, but I was at the river to just to think. But now,....I know now.......YOU CANNOT FIX STUPID!!!!

   MOMZ...My very first bike was an early 50s....650 Twin.... BSA Golden Flash I bought in 1955....very nice machine.

[Momz]

Skeeter,

I still have my first BSA. A 1966 650 Lightning (thats a keeper).
I also have a 650 Spitfire desert sled, a 64 Triumph 650 TiR6, and a 73 750 Bonneville.
I've owned my share of motorcycles throughout my riding career, and repaired and sold a lot more.
So I figure that I can "walk the walk" and "talk the talk".

There may come I time when my memory starts to fail me, and I hope that when that happens, I might just say a few dumb things now and then.