Jets for Dummies. poor idle and popping fix, New Video!

[whitestroke]

Been reading about the carb settings and my head is spinning. Am I correct and if not please correct me.

There are 3 jets, per carb?

Pilot Jet=Idle Jet
Slow jet=below 3000rpm
High Speed Jet=above 3000rpm

Pilot Jet is set by ear to between popping and overloading?
Slow speed jet is initially set to 1 3/4 with a #38?
High speed jet I've got no clue how to set?
And which jet is used to sync carb with a vacuum guage?

Can someone straighten me out. ???

PS.  this is my first post. Buying my Valk tomorrow.

[PhredValk]

I have no idea what to say here, but welcome to the boards. I bought my 99 Interstate two years ago, have put 24,000 miles on her since and have never touched the carbs.

You may be over thinking this issue. Unless you're having problems, don't sweat it. I would pull the rear wheel and check the lube on the splines and drive shaft, check the brake pads and bleed the lines just to be safe but the carbs may be fine.

Just get on her and ride for a month, then come to us with any concerns you have. You're gonna love this machine.
Fred.

[whitestroke]

My concern is that I got a good deal on a Valk that is popping on decell and seems to miss at idle, but runs good when you get on it.  Owner says it needs a carb sync.  Well after much reading here, it sounds like a vacuum leak.  I think previous owner has been getting the carbs synced all the time to keep up with the vacuum leak getting worse ( the dealer loves him $$ ) When I get it home and fix the vacuum leak I think the carbs will then be out of wack.  So i'm hoping to know how to attack the carb problem.  Is there any write-ups with pics of the jet locations and the sequence to start the adjusting.
Is this thinking logical ? Found plenty of articles on the vacuum leaks and what to look for, but still very fuzzy on the carbs.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

If it hasn't been desmogged you might want to start there. Then do a carb synced. My valk pops some on decel but I don't mind it and I'm running straight pipes so the pops are kind of part of the system. If I install my mufflers the pops go away. Welcome to the board .

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

In my opinion most carburetor problems are caused by folks that should'nt be taken a screwdriver to them in the first place....I've got ( 3 ) Valkyrie's and nothing has ever been done to the carburetor's and each one of them runs like a sewing machine 

[Don07tncav]

Check the carb boots from the airbox to the carbs for tightness also.

[Quicksilver]

Congratulations ! 
The years of fun are about to begin.

[9Ball]

The carb sync is the last step of the whole process.  If you have stumbling at low rpms then you might have plugged slow jets...I say might.

You're going about it right.  Eliminate all sources of vacuum leaks first.  If you still have stumbling below ~2500 rpms, this is your clue that the slow jets may be clogged.  If you decide to remove the carb bank and replace the slow jets, then be sure to clean the pilot circuits and replace/inspect the pilot o-rings.  Set them to your starting setting before replacing the carb bank on the motor.  While you're in there it's a good time to replace vacuum lines or desmog (not a fan) and intake o-rings.

Good luck..ask questions as needed.  A lot of us have been in your shoes with carb issues.  I've done or helped with 4 different carb cleanings and it resolved the problems each time.

[John Schmidt]

The pilot jets are the only adjustable ones. Most riders will have them set from somewhere around 1 3/4 turns out to as much as 2 1/4, depending on which slow jets are installed. Many riders with #38 slow jets installed will set the pilots at around 1 3/4. The slow and high speed jets are fixed. After setting the pilot jets to whatever setting you want/need, then sync the carbs. But, don't do anything until after making certain you have no vacuum leaks.

Hope this helps a bit.

[salty1]

Looks like John S. finally answered your specific questions. You might want to make sure you've got a good battery and change out the spark plugs. A desmog would probably be a good thing too. Does your new Valk have stock exhaust? My gal has a 6 into 6 system and runs like a scalded dog, but have never been able to totally eliminate a small amount of decel pop when she's at operating temperature. I also use a K&N air filter, stock jets (slow speed is a 35), desmogged it, replaced all vacuum lines, new intake Orings, etc. and the pilots are turned out 2 1/2 turns.

Best of luck and enjoy that new ride!!!   

[Ricky-D]

There's only two things you should do right away.

Correct any vacuum leaks.

Run a few tanks of gas with an additive to help clean up the fuel system.

If you start messing with the adjustments, without proper knowledge, you will end up frustrated and unsatisfied.

If you need guidance, there are many on this forum to help you.

***

[Skinhead]

I'm not an expert (did the Holiday Inn thing once though) but If my understanding is correct, Carb syncing merely balances the power output of each cylinder, i.e., ensuring that each of the 6 throttles is flowing the same amount of air.  If one or more throttle is flowing more or less air, there would be differential power pulses each time those cylinders fire, resulting in less than smooth idles, and possible uneven power on launches.  If you are experiencing popping on decel, I would Desmog, check/replace the intake o-rings, check exhaust header nut tightness, and the intake clamps.

As Smokin' Joe said and I agree, most owners cause their carb problems by messing with them, when the problem lies elsewhere.

[whitestroke]

That answers all questions, except, what adjustment syncs the carbs?  Thats i'm on my way to pick up new toy. will post pictures when i get her home. 7 hour drive.

[Stratnick]

My concern is that I got a good deal on a Valk that is popping on decell and seems to miss at idle, but runs good when you get on it.  Owner says it needs a carb sync.  Well after much reading here, it sounds like a vacuum leak.  I think previous owner has been getting the carbs synced all the time to keep up with the vacuum leak getting worse ( the dealer loves him $$ ) When I get it home and fix the vacuum leak I think the carbs will then be out of wack.  So i'm hoping to know how to attack the carb problem.  Is there any write-ups with pics of the jet locations and the sequence to start the adjusting.
Is this thinking logical ? Found plenty of articles on the vacuum leaks and what to look for, but still very fuzzy on the carbs.

My 2000 I/S had the exact same symptoms that you described. Here's what I found when I pulled the carbs. Intake runner orings had hardened and shrunk so they we no longer effective. Vacuum caps on intake pipes were split and  leaking vacuum. Slow jets and main jets were dirty...I replaced them after thoroughly cleaning the carbs. While I was in there, I did a desmog. I had run several tanks of sea foam treated gas through it and it helped only temporarily. I also replaced the pilot screw orings which were flat and hardened as well. Got all my orings, etc. from Redeye.
Result: A super smooth running Valk that does not pop, stumble, or miss at all...at any rpm or speed. She is pure pleasure to ride now. Like someone else mentioned, tending to the vacuum leaks may be a good place to start...much easier than pulling the carbs out. Best wishes and congratulations!

[John Schmidt]

That answers all questions, except, what adjustment syncs the carbs?  Thats i'm on my way to pick up new toy. will post pictures when i get her home. 7 hour drive.

My suggestion....follow Ricky-D's thoughts first. Then come back here and talk about what you've experienced. Smokin Joe is on target re. problems and the causes, so proceed with caution. The sync is done using the allen head screws at the side of each carb. The #3 carb has no adjustment and is used as the base unit that you sync the other five to. You have to remove the chrome linkage covers to get at the screws to adjust, and use the vacuum ports sticking out in back of each carb.

[9Ball]

That answers all questions, except, what adjustment syncs the carbs?  Thats i'm on my way to pick up new toy. will post pictures when i get her home. 7 hour drive.

you need a carb sync set of gauges...there are postings on how to make your own.  I purchased a set of the Morgan Carbtune II gauges.  There's also a brand called TwinMax.  Neither of these use mercury.  You need to buy the Honda service manual or download the manual from Dag's website (search function is your friend).  The carb sync instructions are spelled out clearly.  The carb sync is the last thing you do after all the other maintenance and adjustments are made.

[Patrick]

I agree with what most have said.. Fix any vacuum leaks.. Set the pilots [ D screw] to 2.25 turns for 35 jets.. 1.75  for 38s.. 1.75 turns is what most are originally set at[35s].. Like was said, sync last and to #3 cylinder.. Keep the engine speed the same throughout the sync process [at idle speed only]and if the fan comes on wait till it goes off.. You don't need anything more than some vacuum hose, forceps, T, and a plain ole vacuum gauge with a dampner.. Also make sure the exhaust gaskets are not leaking, they can sometimes be a PITA.. The one thing you never want to do is adjust something like a pilot setting by' the seat of your pants'..

[GreenLantern57]

Been reading about the carb settings and my head is spinning. Am I correct and if not please correct me.

There are 3 jets, per carb?

Pilot Jet=Idle Jet
Slow jet=below 3000rpm
High Speed Jet=above 3000rpm

Pilot Jet is set by ear to between popping and overloading?
Slow speed jet is initially set to 1 3/4 with a #38?
High speed jet I've got no clue how to set?
And which jet is used to sync carb with a vacuum guage?

Can someone straighten me out. ???

PS.  this is my first post. Buying my Valk tomorrow.

Would be easier for someone to offer personal help if you at least put in a state in your profile. 

[Madmike]

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/carbtun.html

http://www.drpiston.com/Cvcarbs.html

http://www.valkyrienorway.com/download.html

[whitestroke]

Got her home. To dark to take pics. Tomorrow I'll unload her.  Actually try this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&item=290646706690&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_500wt_1182
Maybe some of you know this bike and can tell me something about it?
Anyway before I loaded it up I poured half bottle of Techron in about half a tank of gas and went for a 20 min. ride. Hoping it does some serious cleaning sloshing around in carbs on the way home. Seems like its only running on half the cylliders at idle.  Seems to run fine once it comes off idle a little.  Very easy to stall taking off.  Will take off tank and airbox tomorrow and see what the vacuum lines look like. Thanks for the info. will let you know what I find

[F6BANGER]

Definitely has 2 bros exhaust. Looks like you got yourself forward controls. If your tall, you will like those. You wont like those chrome wheels....you better take them off and send them to me. Nice bike, welcome to the insanity

[whitestroke]

Couldn't stay away I'm Valk Obsessed.  Does this sound like the order to attack things tomorrow.

1...Check exhaust nuts 7ft. pounds

2...Check intake clamps
if either item 1 or 2 is loose tighen and go for ride....

3...remove tank and airbox and replace vacuum lines/caps with stuff from kragen/oreilly?
if these look bad replace and go for ride....

4....remove tank again this time pull carbs replace pilot orings and adjust, replace slow jets, clean carbs well and put back together with new intake runner orings...
go for ride...

5...If it runs good time to sync carbs.

ALL DONE.

Does that sound like the right order to do things?
Did I forget anything?

One more question.

what is the easiest/quickest way to desmog I'd like to leave all parts attached and just cap or clog all vacumm lines.  Ca. is talking about yearly smog checks.

With the 2 bros. exhaust do I want the 38 slow speed jets or is that just user choice?

[Bone]

You need to look at the top of this page for Shoptalk. Click on that for a ton of knowledge. Here is a link for one version of desmog done by Quexpress.


http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/desmog.htm

[9Ball]

you might want to wait til you have all your parts in hand, otherwise you'll be sitting waiting for one thing or another.

It does sound like you have plugged slow jets.  The carb bowl screws are soft and tend to weld themselves into place.  This along with the fact that they are JIS and not true phillips screws tends to cause one or more to bugger the heads.  I have allen head screws in mine that came with the factoory pro jet kit, but redeyetech also sells replacement screws.  I recommend you get these while you are ordering parts.  He sells reversible desmog kits too...several varieties.  I have no experience with these but others may chime in.  I choose to keep my bike's smog system stock even though it requires periodic replacement of the vacuum hoses.  You'll have a good opportunity to clean all around the engine once the carbs and airbox are out of the way.

Be sure to clean the pilot ports thoroughly.  I don't have compressed air, so it takes 2 to 3 cans of carb cleaner to properly clean everything (this is my experience).

Once you have it up and running again be sure to treat your gas if the bike has the possibility to sit for more than a few weeks without riding.  Running it in the garage is not a good substitute for actually riding and getting the oil and coolant up to operating temperature.

Another thing to consider while you have it apart is running wires and installing an aux fuse box with relay to power your accessories.  With all the stuff out of the way you can neatly run wires along the frame and wire tie everything professionally.  This way, when you decide to run driving lamps, stebel horn, gps, leds, whatever you already have the hard part done.

Have fun...and enjoy your new bike.
Good luck and ask questions...it's not a hard job as long as you take your time and follow the service manual.

[Skinhead]

Couldn't stay away I'm Valk Obsessed.  Does this sound like the order to attack things tomorrow.

1...Check exhaust nuts 7ft. pounds

2...Check intake clamps
if either item 1 or 2 is loose tighen and go for ride....

3...remove tank and airbox and replace vacuum lines/caps with stuff from kragen/oreilly?
if these look bad replace and go for ride....

4....remove tank again this time pull carbs replace pilot orings and adjust, replace slow jets, clean carbs well and put back together with new intake runner orings...
go for ride...

5...If it runs good time to sync carbs.

ALL DONE.

Does that sound like the right order to do things?
Did I forget anything?

One more question.

what is the easiest/quickest way to desmog I'd like to leave all parts attached and just cap or clog all vacumm lines.  Ca. is talking about yearly smog checks.

With the 2 bros. exhaust do I want the 38 slow speed jets or is that just user choice?

You didn't mention how log this bike sat.  If I were you, I would

1b  Replace o-rings, can be done without removing the carbs and could be the source of the popping. 
if popping persists desmog
Then

2b take a couple low speed (below 3000 rpm) long cruises with tecron in gas with several long soaks along the way.

See if that cleans your slow jets out before tearing the carbs apart.

If that fixes things,

Change plugs if they haven't been in the last 30,000 miles and then do the carb sync

[YoungPUP]

"seems to run fine after it comes off idle"  Sounds like plugged or slightly plugged slow jets.  Finish the current tank of fuel, and then give it a full tank of fresh fuel with a full container of yuor choice of fuel cleaner, (techron, B12, or seafoam) and then run it out and see where that leaves you.

[Brian]

The ad states "custom tuned"????????? Can the PO explain what was done to make that statement and this low mileage, how long as it sat with the old gas in it? A good cleaning of the carbs and replacing all the o-rings and maybe the needle valves might just be the ticket before messing with any of the settings. When I brought my 97 home and started this process I knew it had sat for 2 years, I ended up replacing all the float needles because three were draining gas right through the cylinders and out the exhaust ports. Just my two cents to possibly save you the dreaded hydrolock.

[Patrick]

' Off idle a little ' ,, not quite sure what that means.. But, first things first.. Replace all the vacuum lines and caps.. See how it runs.. If it idles poorly but runs well just above idle to high engine speed then everything may be OK except for idle adjustment.. If the engine runs well from 1200/1500 to 2500 and also good from 2500 and beyond then I don't think you have a plugged jet issue.. Once the vacuum lines are done set the pilots as mentioned above and see where they were set at, in other words, count the turns to lightly seat them.. Again, if the engine runs well from about 1200 and beyond then the carburetors should be OK except for idle adjustment.. If everything seems OK to this point, PM me and I'll go thru an easy way to perform a sync with a plain vacuum gauge.. When I hear that something has been 'professionally tuned' I get suspicious, especially if the engine doesn't run correctly.. Thats kinda a dead give away that something 'ain't right'..

[whitestroke]

This is what i found when I removed tank is this some kind of partial desmog?  There are red caps on the reed valves dohickeys see photo and also on the bottom of the airbox.

The vacuum line to the petcock tees to both sides.  Isn't it suppose to go to carb #6? 

I going to do the Tim Skelton  DESMOG (in Shoptalk) since his is a CA. bike.  According to Tim the 6 lines at the top of the picture are Purge Lines on Ca. bikes only. He said to just plug all 6 where they meet.

[whitestroke]

This one carb has a small leak, is this the oring some are saying to replace on the pilot jet?
This is the pilot jet right?
If it was leaking from jet, would there be fuel on 2 of the floot bowl screws?

[Stratnick]

This one carb has a small leak, is this the oring some are saying to replace on the pilot jet?
This is the pilot jet right?
If it was leaking from jet, would there be fuel on 2 of the floot bowl screws?

The screw head in the picture is bowl drain. The pilot screw faces down and is in the housing just to the left of the drain screw in your picture. It has lots of goop on it too. You'll need a "D" shaped  tool in order to adjust it. It looks like the fuel may be leaking around the o-ring that seals the bowl to the carb body.

[whitestroke]

Thanks for the pilot location.  I think your right about the float bowl oring, thats what it looks like is leaking..Would it swell up and seal on it's own since its wet all the time?

Would orings go bad if they dry up?  As in the orings under the carb risers.

Not sure how old gas is.  Previous owner said he didn't remember.  Would it run good when you jump on it if the gas was bad?

On to the real problems
The vacuum hoses all look pretty good, but since its missing parts already I will probably go ahead and Desmog.  Still need to research which kit to get or just buy parts.  Any opinions?



Hey guys I still need to know whats up with the partial Desmoging? see previous picture I posted.

BIG THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP  

[9Ball]

yes, it looks like someone did a half-a$$ed job.  I wouldn't bother with the plug type kit but would go for the full desmog, which removes the PAIR valves and all the chrome tubing.  There have been enough posts showing pictures and maybe someone will steer you to one specific guide...the search function should help you here.

Good luck.  When I see stuff like this it makes me wonder what else they took shortcuts on.  I would pay close attention to your final drive o-rings and lubrication soon.

[salty1]

+1 on what jrhorton had to say. Rubber seals that have dried up will leak gas and will swell after bathed in gas and the leak may stop. That said, I would change out the "offenders". At a minimum, change out the pilot and float bowl needle Orings. It's too bad about the poor desmog job. However, you maybe aware that Rich at red eye technical services has a good assortment of desmog kits, Orings, caps, lines, etc. so the job can be done right. During the desmog would be a good time to put in new carb intake Orings. Last when it's all back together, synch those carbs! Keep up the good work. 

http://redeye.ecrater.com/

[Patrick]

If I'm looking at your pictures correctly, it appears that a de-smog has not been performed or performed improperly as #3 and#4 cylinder vacuum lines are still there.. Once going thru what it takes to remove the carburetor assembly then the desmog almost begs to be done.. The best desmog article is by our very own long time member Normand [Quexpress].. You should be able to find it in shop talk or the archives.. It pays to do this right, it'll save problems in the future..The only vacuum line should be to the fuel petcock.. That said, I recommend removing that and installing a manual Pingle valve and an in-line fuel filter.. Once all is done, I have a pre-flight and post-flight mental checklist.. As you swing your over and take a seat while the right hand heads for the key the left hand at the same time goes for the petcock.. Then strangle it[choke], and just tap the starter button.. Upon shut-down, as you again reach for the key reach at the same time for the petcock.. Don't worry, we'll get this monster running correctly..

[Stratnick]

Thanks for the pilot location.  I think your right about the float bowl oring, thats what it looks like is leaking..Would it swell up and seal on it's own since its wet all the time?

Would orings go bad if they dry up?  As in the orings under the carb risers.

Not sure how old gas is.  Previous owner said he didn't remember.  Would it run good when you jump on it if the gas was bad?

On to the real problems
The vacuum hoses all look pretty good, but since its missing parts already I will probably go ahead and Desmog.  Still need to research which kit to get or just buy parts.  Any opinions?



Hey guys I still need to know whats up with the partial Desmoging? see previous picture I posted.

BIG THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP  
Yeah, the desmogging job is interesting. Looks like a big mess. It sounds like you just need to pull carbs, clean and replace whatever needs to replaced in them. They aren't that complicated, just take them apart one at a time and keep parts together (I label ziploc bags) and keep them super clean. Don't know why those orings would be leaking, but if the same person opened the carbs that did that desmog....
The desmogging is much easier with the carbs out.
Got all my orings, etc. at Redeye. You can find them on ebay, or on their website. I purchased a set of bowl orings that I did not use, be glad to sell them to you discounted. PM me if you are interested.

Th

[whitestroke]

My custom fuel tank with punch used to plug up vacuum line to petcock.
My baby likes fresh gas!!!



Wanted to update you on where i'm at.
Things are looking up, Thanks to Brian and Patrick  The gas was old and causing the popping, thanks Brian!  Also thanks to you Patrick for opening my mind, the guy I bought bike from was a real hack.  I say this because everthing I take off to get to innards looks like it was put on by a 3rd grader.  He bought the best stuff and installed it, or attemped to install it.  Many loose and misaligned parts.

The good thing is, after draing the carbs and sending some fresh gas through the motor(see pictures), it  is not popping on decell.  The idle is still rough.   I think it's only running on 3 cyclinders. If I feel each exhaust 6into6 only 3 of them get hot at idle.  I'm going to put it back together and run a few tanks of gas with Techron., and see where i'm at.  This badgirl sounds awesome without the popping.
I'm hopping driving it will clean up the pilot jets.  If not can I pull pilot needles and clean them up, then shoot some carb cleaner up in the pilot needle hole?????

[Patrick]

Just spraying some goop thru the pilots may not help much, could be worth a try, doesn't take long.. How does the engine run at 1200 and above?? If it runs pretty smooth and is hitting on all 6 then I would think the lows are pretty clean and someone screwed up the sync.. But, if it still isn't running on all 6 then you probably have some varnished lows.. Running a few tanks with heavy doses of cleaner[Sea-foam] thru them may help.. If not, its time get your hands really dirty.. The chambers can come off without removing the whole carburetor assembly and the jets can then be cleaned, but, the retainer screws can be a PITA.. Since the tank is already off, the carb assembly comes off in short order..

[salty1]

Holy wings batman, your temporary gas tank may also be a work of the PO!?   
Seriously, have you changed the plugs they are cheap. Sounds like you're getting closer.

[whitestroke]

Ok, a week later here's where I stand.  Been riding the Valk everyday.  The first day after setting idle at 900rpm about 2 blocks into my ride, idle is up to 1300rpm.  Pull over and readjust. Ride a few more blocks and idle is up to 1300rpm again, pull over and adjust again.  The Techron is doing it's job!
So over the weeks worth of riding I'm now running on 4 cyclinders (was 2) at idle  and low rpm's. Runs good still when you jump on it at 2Krpm's  and all the time above 3K rpm's. Easing on the throttle is not as smooth as it should be at any rpm's.

My next line of attack!
Here's my thinking. after riding for a week.
So the PO had bad old gas, and bike wouldn't idle properly.  So what does he do since i'm on my way over to see his bike?  He grabs a phillips and starts turning the sync screws to raise the idle. His 3rd grade mechanical aptitude and general sleaziness has led me to this conclusion. I surmise this because of the #3 cylinder the nonadjustable one, has cold air coming out of the one pipe (6 int 6).  

Now I just need to get Vacuum Gauge.  Does it need to be a good one?  Will harbor freight do?  I read somewhere it needs a dampner in it to work properly?

And for those of you that think it's the carbs that need to be rebuilt, that is my next option.

All comments appriaciated.
Patrick have you been down this trail? your prior replys have led me to suspect the sync.

And yes plugs have been changed and there is spark at all cylinders.