Just So We Are Clear...

[x]

[The Anvil]

What the hell would he know? 

[Clark]

yer a canadian livin in singapore.. mind yer own d--- business

[x]

yer a canadian livin in singapore.. mind yer own d--- business

Clark... do you have space for rent in your cranium?  Do you understand that your response is about shooting the messenger but not replying to the message?

Would it be OK if I said that if I want any sh*t out of you, I'll open up your head and dip it out?

Wassup?  You don't like John Adams, above all, THE singular most influential person that created our country?

[The Anvil]

yer a canadian livin in singapore.. mind yer own d--- business

Clark... do you have space for rent in your cranium?  Do you understand that your response is about shooting the messenger but not replying to the message?

Would it be OK if I said that if I want any sh*t out of you, I'll open up your head and dip it out?

Wassup?  You don't like John Adams, above all, THE singular most influential person that created our country?

I too get annoyed when non-'mercans start whining about our government. Though I'm a bit of a hypocrite on this because it doesn't stop me from criticizing Canada or France or Chine etc.

[Fritz The Cat]

One need only look at at the Dark Ages to see what a world dominated by Christianity is like.

Church and state should forever be separated. Amen.

[x]

yer a canadian livin in singapore.. mind yer own d--- business

Clark... do you have space for rent in your cranium?  Do you understand that your response is about shooting the messenger but not replying to the message?

Would it be OK if I said that if I want any sh*t out of you, I'll open up your head and dip it out?

Wassup?  You don't like John Adams, above all, THE singular most influential person that created our country?

I too get annoyed when non-'mercans start whining about our government. Though I'm a bit of a hypocrite on this because it doesn't stop me from criticizing Canada or France or Chine etc.

Naturalized citizen, 1978.  American by choice.  Former Republican precinct chair.  Former Republican election official.  Made a shitpot of money off Texas Republican party.  Shook President Reagan's hand for my efforts.  

I wrote software used to redistrict eleven states and nine cities in 2000.  Worked mostly for the Democrats.  I've met every kind of elected putz from Congressmen to city council hacks.  I believe that John Adams would be appalled by the whores that 'serve' us today.
 
Tired of the ignoramuses that continue to call this a Christian nation.

[larswlvs]

If a majority of people living in a country are armed does that make it an armed nation...yes it does.The majority of people living in the U.S consider themselves to be christian so we are a christian nation but  not strictly a nation of Christians forsaking all or any other religions. My opinion and I'm sticking with it!!

[RoadKill]

yer a canadian livin in singapore.. mind yer own d--- business

Clark... do you have space for rent in your cranium?  Do you understand that your response is about shooting the messenger but not replying to the message?

Would it be OK if I said that if I want any sh*t out of you, I'll open up your head and dip it out?

Wassup?  You don't like John Adams, above all, THE singular most influential person that created our country?

You just got TROLLED!!  

I am surprised you fell for it so easily,Wayne.    Make Superman work harder,he didnt even have to take his Clark Kent glasses of for that one.

As for the original statement and back to the original topic.    I agree with John Adams AND S.E. on this one but I also believe the Christian nation is sick of the left interpreting 'separation of church and state' as freedom FROM religion when it is really based on freedom OF religious choice.

[3fan4life]

In your own words:

you take top honors for posting contentious, politically suspect drivel, time and again.
 
Are you trying to make a point?

Who has contributed zero, exactly?  Methinks it is you.  But, I doubt you'll get that perspective. Rant on.

F*ck me... at times I cannot believe people like you exist.

I guess that you were right:

there is always a turd in the punchbowl. 

As for the rest of your post, I have to laugh.  It is extremist views like yours that put this country in jeopardy... an inability to come together and resolve issues in spite of differences.
 

Now if you would like to actually read further about the source of the basis for your "Thesis":

The historical record from the foregoing quotes from past Presidents, leaders, Congressmen, Jurists and court decisions, seems firmly on the side of those claiming that America was born and maintained as a Christian nation whose laws, morals, and customs derive from Christian (and Jewish) scriptures.

The opponents of this view, however, point to the first sentence of Article 11 of the obscure Tripoli Treaty of 1797 as seeming conclusive proof that America was never a Christian nation.

The Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli was signed in 1796 in Arabic, and was later translated into English by Joel Barlow, United States Consul General at Algiers.

Except for the typical phrases "Praise be to God" and "whom God Exalt", there is no reference to religion other than the aforesaid remarkable Article 11, which reads,

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, — and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan (sic) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


The treaty, with this language, was submitted to the Senate by President Adams, and was ratified.

Thus, opponents of the 'Christian nation' concept point to this seemingly official repudiation of the very idea.

Yet the language is less a repudiation of the role of Christianity in the nation's heritage than a reminder that there was no national established church in the United States as there was in the European states with which Tripoli had previously dealt.

This provided reassurance to the Moslem Bey and his religious establishment that religion, in of itself, would not be a basis of hostility between the two nations.

None of the other similar treaties with the Barbary states, before or after this treaty, including the replacement treaties signed in 1804 after the Barbary Wars, have any language remotely similar.

And there is a deeper mystery:

As noted in a footnote at page 1070 of the authoritative treatise by Bevans, Treaties and other International Agreements of the United States of America, citing treaty scholar Hunter Miller.

"While the Barlow translation quoted above has been printed in all official and unofficial treaty collections since 1797, most extraordinary (and wholly unexplained) is the fact that Article 11 of the Barlow translation, with its famous phrase 'the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.' does not exist at all.

There is no Article 11. The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter, crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli.

How that script came to be written and to be regarded, as in the Barlow translation, as Article 11 of the treaty as there written, is a mystery and seemingly must remain so.

Nothing in the diplomatic correspondence of the time throws any light whatever on the point"

The rest of this article can be found here:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0040.html

[Tropic traveler]

It is amazing to me how far some people will go to make a point that doesn't need making.

[musclehead]

yer a canadian livin in singapore.. mind yer own d--- business

Clark... do you have space for rent in your cranium?  Do you understand that your response is about shooting the messenger but not replying to the message?

Would it be OK if I said that if I want any sh*t out of you, I'll open up your head and dip it out?

Wassup?  You don't like John Adams, above all, THE singular most influential person that created our country?

I too get annoyed when non-'mercans start whining about our government. Though I'm a bit of a hypocrite on this because it doesn't stop me from criticizing Canada or France or Chine etc.

Naturalized citizen, 1978.  American by choice.  Former Republican precinct chair.  Former Republican election official.  Made a shitpot of money off Texas Republican party.  Shook President Reagan's hand for my efforts.  

I wrote software used to redistrict eleven states and nine cities in 2000.  Worked mostly for the Democrats.  I've met every kind of elected putz from Congressmen to city council hacks.  I believe that John Adams would be appalled by the whores that 'serve' us today.
 
Tired of the ignoramuses that continue to call this a Christian nation.

it's all in how you ask the question, besides how many christians do we have in this country?

[98valk]

yer a canadian livin in singapore.. mind yer own d--- business

Clark... do you have space for rent in your cranium?  Do you understand that your response is about shooting the messenger but not replying to the message?

Would it be OK if I said that if I want any sh*t out of you, I'll open up your head and dip it out?

Wassup?  You don't like John Adams, above all, THE singular most influential person that created our country?

go read your history books and see why he said that, it was so the muscle men (muslims) would not attack a young country which could not defend itself.  u god-less people are sad.

this country was founded as a republic based on judeo-christian principles, values and laws.
it was founded by the Declaration under the faith of God that they would doing so.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."

do u know the meaning of Divine Providence?

Tired of the ignoramuses that continue to act like they know what they are talking about and taking historical quotes out of context to support their anti-christ view of the world and this country.

the same John Adams
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798

[MP]

Once again, SE takes a single sentence out of context, to try to prove his point. Failure, once again.

[Romeo]

Apparently you all have shut him up at least for a time. For that I say Thank You.

[Karen]

Thanks for the clarity, 3fan4life, made me smile.

[Clark]

WHAT AN IMPASILL

[..]

Simply read the first paragraph of The Declaration of Independence.

If that's not enough read the second paragraph.

I love having my Declaration and Constitution sitting on my desk top (the wooden kind). Oh yeah I also have them as an app on my Droid.

And then there's these words

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942.[1] The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

[junior]

WHAT AN IMPASILL

that is a singapoor word that means "your a f***ing moron   

[Clark]

JUNIE..YER CRACKIN ME UP

[The Anvil]

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

You DO know that the part about god was added later, right? No, you probably do not.

EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

And even if it were written by JQA himself, "God" can mean many things. Many religions lay claim to a god.



Putting John Adam's quote back into it's original context doesn't change it's meaning. This country (despite what people will tell you) was NOT founded on "Judeo-Christian values". Many religions share these values, Christianity being but one of them. Is slavery a Judeo-Christian value? I'm pretty sure that it's not actually ("let my people go" and all that). Yet at the founding of this nation provisions were made for it. When Europe came to America slavery came with her. That's a fact, not an opinion.

[Moonshot_1]

I'll see your excerpt from the Tripoli treaty and raise you all 50 States constitutional preambles.

http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

[Robert]

So all the facts that the pilgrims came to the US to establish a place where they didnt have to go with the English church which at that time was controlled by the King. Used to make the people obey his commands. They came looking to establish a place where they could freely worship the God of the Bible without the dictates of England is of no import to you. The fact that the Congress regularly held prayer in the White House and prayed before every session. That they pay a Pastor to be there for Prayer. The first school books were the Bible. Or maybe that during the second world war children were praying in class for America. Or that this treaty that you took this clause out of was established at a time that the Muslims were conquering most of areas and the US did not have the ability to really defend itself and was stuck between a rock and a hard place doesn't interest you either. As usual you take every little shred and either say that its the real intent or distort things so bad or that the truth is not in you. Since you have said a little more about who you worked for it kind of clears up a few things. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of the people that is working for the destruction of America.


The treaty was a routine diplomatic agreement but has attracted later attention because the English version included a clause about religion in America.

    As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

[BradValk48237]

Its funny that the original author of the Pledge, A Christian SOCIALIST... chose to not mention God at all in his version....... took Congress to mess it up....

And when it comes to that.... WHO's God???????? Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Quaker...etc....

Oh wait... all the same God... different interpretation......

Brad

[Robert]

Brad its not the same God.
  A small example that the morons lately have changed trying to make us forget our roots they took BC/AD and changed that. Before Christ and anno domini, or "in the year of our Lord. This was one of the things that declared who we are and people just like E are trying to take that away from us. Just a little history so no one is upset this was done in the middle ages and the purpose of the BC / AD dating system was to make the birth of Jesus Christ the dividing point of world history. America adopted this and only lately like so many things including our freedom is one more piece taken away from us as Christians and the people of the US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7Nf8WPQT4WE

[x]

Simply read the first paragraph of The Declaration of Independence.

If that's not enough read the second paragraph.

I love having my Declaration and Constitution sitting on my desk top (the wooden kind). Oh yeah I also have them as an app on my Droid.

And then there's these words

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942.[1] The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

Yeh... once again, Christians pushing their religion as the 'state religion'.

[3fan4life]

Yeh... once again, Christians pushing their religion as the 'state religion'.

Whine, whine, whine... doesn't it ever get tiresome?

[x]

Apparently you all have shut him up at least for a time. For that I say Thank You.

Hello?  Ever heard of time zones?  You posted at 4:15 AM in the morning, my time.  I'm baaackkkk!

[Oss]

damn it wayne I hate when your facts check out  
at least most of the UNUM pic quotes

Fear is what made many people come here  When the fear of where you are is greater that the fear of where you are going you move

MANY people came here because they feared DEATH from starvation, religious persecution
genocide (before it was a word) Jail etc.  

Without fear there can be no courage

Others came for the opportunity but not all



britman quoted correctly also but I think most missed it The pledge added under G-d in response to communism red scare in the 50's

for the rest, please refer to my post of the two twins yammering

I am goin back to read my book

[Robert]

Were the Founding Fathers Christians?
It can be easily demonstrated that a very high percentage – in fact, the overwhelming majority – of Founding Fathers were Christians, but certainly not all of them were. Today, citizens are regularly told about the lesser religious Founders (such as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Paine), but hear nothing about the prominent Christians among the Founders (for example, 29 of the 56 signers of the Declaration held what are today considered seminary or Bible school degrees, and many others of the signers were bold and outspoken in their personal Christian faith). Significantly, not one of the Founding Fathers was secular in his orientation; even Thomas Paine (certainly the least religious of the Founders) openly acknowledged God and announced his belief in his personal accountability to God, and he also directly advocated teaching creationism in the public school classroom (see “Thomas Paine Criticizes the Current Public School Science Curriculum”). Over 250 individuals are historically considered Founding Fathers (e.g., the signers of the Declaration, the signers of the Constitution, the framers of the Bill of Rights, leading state governors and generals in the Revolution, etc.), but typically critics list only the handful of the least religious from among the 250 to claim that all the Founders were deists or secular.

How many signers of the Declaration were ministers?
Many were trained as ministers, but at the time of the signing of the Declaration, only a few were active in ministry. For example John Witherspoon was serving as a minister at that time; Robert Treat Paine served as a military chaplain during the Revolution; and Lyman Hall had served as a minister before the Revolution; etc. However, there are many others who should also be noted for their ministry work, including Francis Hopkinson, a church music director and choir leader who edited a famous American hymnbook; Roger Sherman, who wrote the doctrinal creed for his denomination in Connecticut; Benjamin Rush, who started Sunday School in America and founded the country’s first Bible Society; James Wilson, who had been trained as a clergyman in Scotland but became an attorney, teaching students the Biblical basis of civil law; and many others. In fact, at least 29 of the signers had been trained in schools whose primary purpose was the preparation of ministers, including John Adams, Samuel Adams, Carter Braxton, Charles Carroll, William Ellery, Elbridge Gerry, Lyman Hall, John Hancock, Benjamin Harrison, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Francis Hopkinson, Thomas Jefferson, Francis Lewis, Philip Livingston, Thomas Lynch, Arthur Middleton, Lewis Morris, Thomas Nelson Jr., William Paca, Robert Treat Paine, Benjamin Rush, James Smith, Richard Stockton, William Williams, James Wilson, John Witherspoon, Oliver Wolcott, and George Wythe. They attended universities and seminaries of learning such as Harvard, Yale, William and Mary, Princeton, Cambridge, and Westminster.

Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Signer of the Declaration of Independence

Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.

Benjamin Franklin

Signer of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence

• nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

(Source: Benjamin Franklin, The Writings of Benjamin Franklin, Jared Sparks, editor (Boston: Tappan, Whittemore and Mason, 1840), Vol. X, p. 297, April 17, 1787. )

[Robert]

John Hancock
Signer of the Declaration of Independence

    I John Hancock, . . . being advanced in years and being of perfect mind and memory-thanks be given to God-therefore calling to mind the mortality of my body and knowing it is appointed for all men once to die [Hebrews 9:27], do make and ordain this my last will and testament…Principally and first of all, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of God that gave it: and my body I recommend to the earth . . . nothing doubting but at the general resurrection I shall receive the same again by the mercy and power of God. . .

Will of John Hancock
Patrick Henry
Governor of Virginia, Patriot

    This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.

Will of Patrick Henry

[Robert]

Upon Washington's return to Fort Cumberland (120 miles from the battle scene), he wrote a letter to his mother to alay any fears she would have, as news of the rout had preceded them. On the same day (July 18, 1755) he also wrote to his brother, John A. Washington:

    "As I have heard since my arrival at this place [Fort Cumberland], a circumstantial account of my death and dying speech, I take this early opportunity of contradicting the first, and of assuring you that I have not as yet composed the latter. But, by the all-powerful dispensations of Providence, I have been protected beyond all human probability or expectation; for I had four bullets through my coat, and two horses shot under me, yet escaped unhurt, although death was leveling my companions on every side of me!"

But wait, it gets even better. 15 years later, an old respected Indian Chief sought out council with Washington, when he heard that he was in the area. Through an interpreter he explained that he had set out on a long journey to meet Washington personally, and to speak to him about the battle 15 years earlier. He said:

    "I am a cheif and ruler over my tribes. My influence extends to the waters of the great lakes and to the far blue mountains. I have traveled a long and weary path that I might see the young warrior of the great battle. It was on the day when the white man's blood mixed with the streams of our forest that I first beheld this chief [Washington]. I called to my young men and said, mark yon tall and daring warrior? He is not of the red-coat tribe--he hath an Indian's wisdom, and his warriors fight as we do--himself is alone exposed. Quick, let your aim be certain, and he dies. Our rifles were leveled, rifles which, but for you, knew not how to miss--'twas all in vain, a power mightier far than we, shielded you. Seeing you were under the special guardship of the Great Spirit, we immediately ceased to fire at you. I am old and soon shall be gathered to the great council fire of my fathers in the land of shades, but ere I go, there is something bids me speak in the voice of prophecy. Listen! The Great Spirit protects that man [pointing at Washington], and guides his destinies--he will become the chief of nations, and a people yet unborn will hail him as the founder of a mighty empire. I am come to pay homage to the man who is the particular favorite of Heaven, and who can never die in battle."

This is an AMAZING account of God's divine protection over George Washington!! And there is another piece of evidence that Jesus Christ preserved George Washington for greatness.

http://www.therealamericanhis-story.com/gw

[Robert]

John Adams

    We electors have an important constitutional power placed in our hands; we have a check upon two branches of the legislature . . . the power I mean of electing at stated periods [each] branch. . . . It becomes necessary to every [citizen] then, to be in some degree a statesman, and to examine and judge for himself of the tendency of political principles and measures. Let us examine, then, with a sober, a manly . . . and a Christian spirit; let us neglect all party [loyalty] and advert to facts; let us believe no man to be infallible or impeccable in government any more than in religion; take no man’s word against evidence, nor implicitly adopt the sentiments of others who may be deceived themselves, or may be interested in deceiving us.

[John Adams, The Papers of John Adams, Robert J. Taylor, ed. (Cambridge: Belknap Press, 1977), Vol. 1, p. 81, from "'U' to the Boston Gazette" written on August 29, 1763.]

[BradValk48237]

To all,

 I respect your beliefs and am glad that you have the conviction and freedom to follow them.

However they also made it clear in the Constitution and their actions that no one should be persecuted for their beliefs and that the government of the USA should be free of religious hierarchy such as was found in the European and Asian nations- that men should be free to follow their beliefs and ideas without interference from their government AND their fellow countrymen...... the fact that they were almost all Christians and there was so little reference to religious doctrine-of any kind- in the documents that founded this country if proof enough of that......  

So yes- there should be NO religion that should influence our government, left, right or center.... All men should follow the laws of the United States... Not the "laws" of any religion... be it the 10 Commandments, Sharia, Brahman, Talmudic or any other religion.....

Next point Mr Moderator... this is getting interesting

Brad

[..]

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

You DO know that the part about god was added later, right? No, you probably do not.

EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

And even if it were written by JQA himself, "God" can mean many things. Many religions lay claim to a god.



Putting John Adam's quote back into it's original context doesn't change it's meaning. This country (despite what people will tell you) was NOT founded on "Judeo-Christian values". Many religions share these values, Christianity being but one of them. Is slavery a Judeo-Christian value? I'm pretty sure that it's not actually ("let my people go" and all that). Yet at the founding of this nation provisions were made for it. When Europe came to America slavery came with her. That's a fact, not an opinion.

As my original post mentioned

The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942.[1] The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

It just goes to show that YOU are a fruitcake. Incapable of reading and comprehension. Such a shame because you do seem to have lucid moments. Ocassionally.

Surely you didn't forget to quote all of my post.
You wouldn't do such a pathetically childish thing. Would you?

Here's my COMPLETE POST

Simply read the first paragraph of The Declaration of Independence.

If that's not enough read the second paragraph.

I love having my Declaration and Constitution sitting on my desk top (the wooden kind). Oh yeah I also have them as an app on my Droid.

And then there's these words

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an expression of loyalty to the federal flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Christian Socialist Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the pledge in 1942.[1] The Pledge has been modified four times since its composition, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.

Oh look it does mention that "Under God" was added later in American history.

Oh Anvil. Oh dear. How is it possible you couldn't read another forum members post and quote it correctly?

Too busy trying to make a silly juvenile point?

[Robert]

The Mayflower Compact was the first governing document of Plymouth Colony. It was written by the colonists, later together known to history as the Pilgrims, who crossed the Atlantic aboard the Mayflower. Almost half of the colonists were part of a separatist group seeking the freedom to practice Christianity according to their own determination and not the will of the Anglican Church.[citation needed] It was signed on November 11, 1620 (OS),[1] by 41 of the ship's 101 passengers,[2][3] while the Mayflower was anchored in what is now Provincetown Harbor within the hook at the northern tip of Cape Cod.[4]

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.
In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France, and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth, 1620.[12]

[Robert]

John Adams
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Second President of the United States

t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue.

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, to Zabdiel Adams on June 21, 1776.)

[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)

The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If "Thou shalt not covet," and "Thou shalt not steal," were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society, before it can be civilized or made free.

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1851), Vol. VI, p. 9.)

John Quincy Adams

Sixth President of the United States

The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code; it contained many statutes . . . of universal application-laws essential to the existence of men in society, and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws.

(Source: John Quincy Adams, Letters of John Quincy Adams, to His Son, on the Bible and Its Teachings (Auburn: James M. Alden, 1850), p. 61.)

There are three points of doctrine the belief of which forms the foundation of all morality. The first is the existence of God; the second is the immortality of the human soul; and the third is a future state of rewards and punishments. Suppose it possible for a man to disbelieve either of these three articles of faith and that man will have no conscience, he will have no other law than that of the tiger or the shark. The laws of man may bind him in chains or may put him to death, but they never can make him wise, virtuous, or happy.

(Source: John Quincy Adams, Letters of John Quincy Adams to His Son on the Bible and Its Teachings (Auburn: James M. Alden, 1850), pp. 22-23.)

Samuel Adams

Signer of the Declaration of Independence

[N]either the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.

(Source: William V. Wells, The Life and Public Service of Samuel Adams (Boston: Little, Brown, & Co., 1865), Vol. I, p. 22, quoting from a political essay by Samuel Adams published in The Public Advertiser, 1749.)

Fisher Ames

Framer of the First Amendment

Our liberty depends on our education, our laws, and habits . . . it is founded on morals and religion, whose authority reigns in the heart, and on the influence all these produce on public opinion before that opinion governs rulers.

(Source: Fisher Ames, An Oration on the Sublime Virtues of General George Washington (Boston: Young & Minns, 1800), p. 23.)

Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Signer of the Declaration of Independence

Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.

(Source: Bernard C. Steiner, The Life and Correspondence of James McHenry (Cleveland: The Burrows Brothers, 1907), p. 475. In a letter from Charles Carroll to James McHenry of November 4, 1800.)

Oliver Ellsworth

Chief-Justice of the Supreme Court

[T]he primary objects of government are the peace, order, and prosperity of society. . . . To the promotion of these objects, particularly in a republican government, good morals are essential. Institutions for the promotion of good morals are therefore objects of legislative provision and support: and among these . . . religious institutions are eminently useful and important. . . . [T]he legislature, charged with the great interests of the community, may, and ought to countenance, aid and protect religious institutions—institutions wisely calculated to direct men to the performance of all the duties arising from their connection with each other, and to prevent or repress those evils which flow from unrestrained passion.

(Source: Connecticut Courant, June 7, 1802, p. 3, Oliver Ellsworth, to the General Assembly of the State of Connecticut)

Benjamin Franklin

Signer of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence

• nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

(Source: Benjamin Franklin, The Writings of Benjamin Franklin, Jared Sparks, editor (Boston: Tappan, Whittemore and Mason, 1840), Vol. X, p. 297, April 17, 1787. )

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.

(Source: James Madison, The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, Max Farrand, editor (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1911), Vol. I, pp. 450-452, June 28, 1787.)

[F6CTrider]

As a Non - Christian (definition: A christian believes that Jesus is the incarnate son of a spirit God),
I seek freedom to follow my spirituality without interference or censure by the government or others.
I seek freedom for the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
Keep moral pronouncements by self appointed divine spokespersons out of our legislation, bedrooms, doctor offices, courts, etc.

Do not turn this country into a christian theocracy just because "most" people are "christians".
Theocracies seldom work out well.  Burning at the stake, inquisitions, stoning, genocide, you know.... how it always ends.  Eventually NOBODY will be christian enough and who will be the judge?

[Robert]

With all this said I do understand the building blocks that America was made with. I also realize like the founding fathers realized that all are not Christians and want the freedom to establish there own path. This is more why the lack of religious terms in our documents yet the under lying or foundation of the framers was Christian. This could have been a Muslim nation and no one would have the choice of what or who to worship. Since it is Christian although Christians want all to know Christ there is understanding of choice and the wanting people to have the ability to chose. That is why America is the great melting pot. But when Christians acknowledge that right to others yet others turn around and deny that same right to Christians or tell them that the country that was founded on Christian principles was not, then there is a problem. This is the times we live in and the tactics of the enemy, which by the way is also looking to dilute the roots of this nation and have people forget who and what they are so that it is easier to keep them moving on the path to give up on America, on themselves, on their heritage. Hitler did the same thing. Could you imaging someone saying Israel was not founded on Judaism? I wonder how the Jews would take it? No one is denying anyone's rights or ability to practice anyone's religion just dont do the same for the Christians and in your efforts to make things more palatable for yourself to whoever that may be dont try to distort what came before. In a effort to affect change to a more tolerant and substandard way. We are a blessed country more so than most all other nations and it is the blessings of God that allowed this to happen. I give Him the credit and thank God for this Nation. The people who couldn't build a America want to take it away from us now, dont let them.

[The Anvil]

How many of the founding fathers were Christian is irrelevant. I'm a Christian and I do not want religion influencing policy.