What do you know about islam?

[Jess Tolbirt]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/38844_428614151691_680146691_4715498_6210828_n.jpg

[Momz]

You'd be arrested for driving a PU like that here in Dearborn/Dearborn Hts. by the cops.
You'd be mobbed and killed by my nieghbors if the cops didn't get to you first.

I'm in agreement with most patriotic Americans, but around here anti-America/pro-Islam sentiment does exsist.

[x]

[Hoser]

September 5, 2009 was when ignorance became a point of view.     Hoser

[BF]

THIS IS ISLAM!	powered by Aeva

[Chattanooga Mark]

Ignorance is not paying attention to those whose stated goal is your death. Well, except for the truly ignorant, they ignore the truth, facts, logic and common sense. You simply can't help the unwilling. They'll resent you and you'll frustrate yourself.

Some on this forum would be more truthful if their forum name was something like Pool Pooper, Weak Buzzard or ABTT (Anything But The Truth).

All the best,

Mark

[x]

Ignorance is not paying attention to those whose stated goal is your death. Well, except for the truly ignorant, they ignore the truth, facts, logic and common sense. You simply can't help the unwilling. They'll resent you and you'll frustrate yourself.

Some on this forum would be more truthful if their forum name was something like Pool Pooper, Weak Buzzard or ABTT (Anything But The Truth).

All the best,

Mark

You confuse Islam with terrorism.  I live, work, and play in two countries that are vast majority Muslim... half of my employees in Malaysia are Muslim.  My golf caddy is Muslim.  And what you and Jess have posted about Islam is a crock of sh*t.  Not a single person here in KL, or in Indonesia has a stated goal of my death.
 
I don't have any use for religion... Christian, Jewish, Islam... but for folks like you to smear hundreds of millions of people who just get along with their life shows where the true ignorance lies.

[Jess Tolbirt]

SE, the following is a copy and paste from http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/21

Does Islam Preach That Infidels Be Killed?
 
Question

I am a typical American who does not know anyone who happens to follow Islam. I, like many others, hear and read many ideas - with no way to know what is truth and what is myth.

I have thought about just walking in to a Mosque – but, I have to admit I do feel more than a bit intimidated.

So, I thought I would ask my questions here.

After 9/11 it has been said in many articles that the Koran/Islam does promote the idea that infidels (people who do not accept Allah) should be killed. Is this true? The latest article I read (it came over the Internet) tells the following story which I copied and pasted below. While I don't know if the story is true, are the details accurate?

"Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs."

In America, where the ideal citizen is the one who accepts and/or promotes tolerance, diversity and freedom of thought, is it accurate to say that Islam does not promote these values?

If these thoughts are misguided, could you please set me straight? Thank you for your time. Here is the story that came in e-mail (Is it correct or should I be outraged that someone has defamed your religion?)
Response

I commend the effort that you have undertaken in order to find the real story. However I think to understand what exactly Islam is, you should try to study Quran yourself. The reason is the fact that what Muslims exhibit does not necessarily elaborate what Islam preaches. I can also understand the fear of walking into a mosque. I just hope that this world becomes a better place for all.

You wrote:
After 9/11 it has been said in many articles that the Koran/Islam does promote the idea that infidels (people who do not accept Allah) should be killed. Is this true?

I am of the opinion that this is a misunderstood interpretation amongst Muslims and non-Muslims alike. For instance, the other parts of Quran, which talk about religious freedom and honoring lives of other souls are completely ignored both by Muslims and non-Muslims when understanding Quranic teachings on the subject matter.

You quoted,
"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven."

It is unfortunate that the actions of Muslims have often been thought of as what Islam itself is. What a group of Muslims does is not what Islam necessarily preaches. Islam should be understood by the doctrines it preaches, which are contained in Quran.

Islam is against killing of a single soul without justice; it completely detests killing innocent people whether they be Muslims or otherwise. Quran has addressed this thus,
... مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ...
... whoever slays a soul, unless it be for murder or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew entire mankind; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept entire mankind alive; ... (Quran 5:32)

With respect to infidels, my belief is that this word is a synonym for the word 'Kaafir' in Quran with respect to the question under discussion. If that is the case, it needs to be said that non-believers who live in the age of messengers of God are a different class and category than non-believers otherwise. It is for this reason that in the history of mankind, whenever a messenger of God came to a nation, he proved his messenger ship clearly and plainly to his nation so much so that they had no confusion about him being a bearer of truth. As a result, those people who, after having known the truth, still denied the messenger were passed on a judgment in this world by the Almighty. In case of polytheists, this judgment was in form of their annihilation, for example the great flood on Noah (pbuh)'s nation when those who rejected his message were drowned. A similar fate was decided by the Almighty on the people of Lot (pbuh), Abraham (pbuh), Salih (pbuh) and other messengers.

It needs to be understood in this context that at the end of the mission of Muhammad (pbuh) when God, in his absolute Knowledge, knew that those who were rejecting faith were not rejecting because they had any confusion with regards to it, rather they were rejecting out of mere arrogance and pride, He commanded Muslims to slay down those 'infidels' from amongst the polytheists. The Jews and Christians, on the other hand, because they belonged to monotheistic faith, were to be fought against until they became politically subservient to Muslims. This was done after providing both the idolaters and the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) sufficient time to understand whether Muhammad (pbuh) was a real messenger of God and the message he brought forward was actually the message from God.

This is God's law specific to messengers as I have explained above. Since a messenger of God is not living with us anymore, and we do not know that which is in the hearts of people, we cannot call them 'infidels' and commit such acts. In a time such as today, every soul must continue to strive to find the truth and live by it.

You asked,
In America, where the ideal citizen is the one who accepts and/or promotes tolerance, diversity and freedom of thought, is it accurate to say that Islam does not promote these values?

I hope I have already clarified the issue. There is no doubt that Islam only supports peace and tolerance, and does not oppose freedom of thought.

[The Anvil]

SE, the following is a copy and paste from http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/21

Does Islam Preach That Infidels Be Killed?
 
Question

I am a typical American who does not know anyone who happens to follow Islam. I, like many others, hear and read many ideas - with no way to know what is truth and what is myth.

I have thought about just walking in to a Mosque – but, I have to admit I do feel more than a bit intimidated.

So, I thought I would ask my questions here.

After 9/11 it has been said in many articles that the Koran/Islam does promote the idea that infidels (people who do not accept Allah) should be killed. Is this true? The latest article I read (it came over the Internet) tells the following story which I copied and pasted below. While I don't know if the story is true, are the details accurate?

"Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs."

In America, where the ideal citizen is the one who accepts and/or promotes tolerance, diversity and freedom of thought, is it accurate to say that Islam does not promote these values?

If these thoughts are misguided, could you please set me straight? Thank you for your time. Here is the story that came in e-mail (Is it correct or should I be outraged that someone has defamed your religion?)
Response

I commend the effort that you have undertaken in order to find the real story. However I think to understand what exactly Islam is, you should try to study Quran yourself. The reason is the fact that what Muslims exhibit does not necessarily elaborate what Islam preaches. I can also understand the fear of walking into a mosque. I just hope that this world becomes a better place for all.

You wrote:
After 9/11 it has been said in many articles that the Koran/Islam does promote the idea that infidels (people who do not accept Allah) should be killed. Is this true?

I am of the opinion that this is a misunderstood interpretation amongst Muslims and non-Muslims alike. For instance, the other parts of Quran, which talk about religious freedom and honoring lives of other souls are completely ignored both by Muslims and non-Muslims when understanding Quranic teachings on the subject matter.

You quoted,
"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven."

It is unfortunate that the actions of Muslims have often been thought of as what Islam itself is. What a group of Muslims does is not what Islam necessarily preaches. Islam should be understood by the doctrines it preaches, which are contained in Quran.

Islam is against killing of a single soul without justice; it completely detests killing innocent people whether they be Muslims or otherwise. Quran has addressed this thus,
... مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ...
... whoever slays a soul, unless it be for murder or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew entire mankind; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept entire mankind alive; ... (Quran 5:32)

With respect to infidels, my belief is that this word is a synonym for the word 'Kaafir' in Quran with respect to the question under discussion. If that is the case, it needs to be said that non-believers who live in the age of messengers of God are a different class and category than non-believers otherwise. It is for this reason that in the history of mankind, whenever a messenger of God came to a nation, he proved his messenger ship clearly and plainly to his nation so much so that they had no confusion about him being a bearer of truth. As a result, those people who, after having known the truth, still denied the messenger were passed on a judgment in this world by the Almighty. In case of polytheists, this judgment was in form of their annihilation, for example the great flood on Noah (pbuh)'s nation when those who rejected his message were drowned. A similar fate was decided by the Almighty on the people of Lot (pbuh), Abraham (pbuh), Salih (pbuh) and other messengers.

It needs to be understood in this context that at the end of the mission of Muhammad (pbuh) when God, in his absolute Knowledge, knew that those who were rejecting faith were not rejecting because they had any confusion with regards to it, rather they were rejecting out of mere arrogance and pride, He commanded Muslims to slay down those 'infidels' from amongst the polytheists. The Jews and Christians, on the other hand, because they belonged to monotheistic faith, were to be fought against until they became politically subservient to Muslims. This was done after providing both the idolaters and the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) sufficient time to understand whether Muhammad (pbuh) was a real messenger of God and the message he brought forward was actually the message from God.

This is God's law specific to messengers as I have explained above. Since a messenger of God is not living with us anymore, and we do not know that which is in the hearts of people, we cannot call them 'infidels' and commit such acts. In a time such as today, every soul must continue to strive to find the truth and live by it.

You asked,
In America, where the ideal citizen is the one who accepts and/or promotes tolerance, diversity and freedom of thought, is it accurate to say that Islam does not promote these values?

I hope I have already clarified the issue. There is no doubt that Islam only supports peace and tolerance, and does not oppose freedom of thought.

For one thing, I'm not buying the story at all. I've never met a priest, minister, rabbi or cleric who could be rendered speechless by anyone.

Secondly, I know a lot of Muslims. I even know one who has his share of issues with America (as do I). But he's not a terrorist. Please don't make me drag out the less savory parts of the bible YET AGAIN to prove the point that not all followers of a religion are despotic. Any holy book that's several thousand years old is likely a poor representation of the present day religion. Had you lived through it all you'd see that the world has changed quite a bit.

[x]

SE, the following is a copy and paste from http://www.omeriqbal.com/a/21

Does Islam Preach That Infidels Be Killed?
 
Question

I am a typical American who does not know anyone who happens to follow Islam. I, like many others, hear and read many ideas - with no way to know what is truth and what is myth.

I have thought about just walking in to a Mosque – but, I have to admit I do feel more than a bit intimidated.

So, I thought I would ask my questions here.

After 9/11 it has been said in many articles that the Koran/Islam does promote the idea that infidels (people who do not accept Allah) should be killed. Is this true? The latest article I read (it came over the Internet) tells the following story which I copied and pasted below. While I don't know if the story is true, are the details accurate?

"Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs."

In America, where the ideal citizen is the one who accepts and/or promotes tolerance, diversity and freedom of thought, is it accurate to say that Islam does not promote these values?

If these thoughts are misguided, could you please set me straight? Thank you for your time. Here is the story that came in e-mail (Is it correct or should I be outraged that someone has defamed your religion?)
Response

I commend the effort that you have undertaken in order to find the real story. However I think to understand what exactly Islam is, you should try to study Quran yourself. The reason is the fact that what Muslims exhibit does not necessarily elaborate what Islam preaches. I can also understand the fear of walking into a mosque. I just hope that this world becomes a better place for all.

You wrote:
After 9/11 it has been said in many articles that the Koran/Islam does promote the idea that infidels (people who do not accept Allah) should be killed. Is this true?

I am of the opinion that this is a misunderstood interpretation amongst Muslims and non-Muslims alike. For instance, the other parts of Quran, which talk about religious freedom and honoring lives of other souls are completely ignored both by Muslims and non-Muslims when understanding Quranic teachings on the subject matter.

You quoted,
"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven."

It is unfortunate that the actions of Muslims have often been thought of as what Islam itself is. What a group of Muslims does is not what Islam necessarily preaches. Islam should be understood by the doctrines it preaches, which are contained in Quran.

Islam is against killing of a single soul without justice; it completely detests killing innocent people whether they be Muslims or otherwise. Quran has addressed this thus,
... مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ...
... whoever slays a soul, unless it be for murder or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew entire mankind; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept entire mankind alive; ... (Quran 5:32)

With respect to infidels, my belief is that this word is a synonym for the word 'Kaafir' in Quran with respect to the question under discussion. If that is the case, it needs to be said that non-believers who live in the age of messengers of God are a different class and category than non-believers otherwise. It is for this reason that in the history of mankind, whenever a messenger of God came to a nation, he proved his messenger ship clearly and plainly to his nation so much so that they had no confusion about him being a bearer of truth. As a result, those people who, after having known the truth, still denied the messenger were passed on a judgment in this world by the Almighty. In case of polytheists, this judgment was in form of their annihilation, for example the great flood on Noah (pbuh)'s nation when those who rejected his message were drowned. A similar fate was decided by the Almighty on the people of Lot (pbuh), Abraham (pbuh), Salih (pbuh) and other messengers.

It needs to be understood in this context that at the end of the mission of Muhammad (pbuh) when God, in his absolute Knowledge, knew that those who were rejecting faith were not rejecting because they had any confusion with regards to it, rather they were rejecting out of mere arrogance and pride, He commanded Muslims to slay down those 'infidels' from amongst the polytheists. The Jews and Christians, on the other hand, because they belonged to monotheistic faith, were to be fought against until they became politically subservient to Muslims. This was done after providing both the idolaters and the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) sufficient time to understand whether Muhammad (pbuh) was a real messenger of God and the message he brought forward was actually the message from God.

This is God's law specific to messengers as I have explained above. Since a messenger of God is not living with us anymore, and we do not know that which is in the hearts of people, we cannot call them 'infidels' and commit such acts. In a time such as today, every soul must continue to strive to find the truth and live by it.

You asked,
In America, where the ideal citizen is the one who accepts and/or promotes tolerance, diversity and freedom of thought, is it accurate to say that Islam does not promote these values?

I hope I have already clarified the issue. There is no doubt that Islam only supports peace and tolerance, and does not oppose freedom of thought.

Jess... this is a nice piece of rhetoric.  I can only tell you about my practical experience living in a predominantly Muslim society.  Muslims are like Christians... there are some who are devout... pray five times a day... follow all the practices... and are guileless... they just follow a peaceful brand of their religion to get to their version of heaven.
 
Then there are those that are part time practitioners... like Christians who go to church for weddings and funerals.  And then there are the hard core extremists... in northern Malaysia, trying to elect governments that enforce Sharia law... and sometimes occasional violence... burning of Christian churches.  In Thailand, the Muslim minority in the south has made it downright dangerous to ride through some parts of their territory... extremists again.  But they are a minority... and like the Christian extremists, do not represent the mainstream views of most believers.
 
I've got no use for any religion.  Imams that don't denounce violence are no better than pastors and preachers that don't denounce Rick Santorum for trying to shove his bible up every woman's uterus.

I'm fully in favor of capturing and killing those that would harm us... but they are terrorists and extremists...

PS:  Yes, the Koran is full of all sorts of nasty things... but then again, so is the bible... Leviticus, anyone?

[musclehead]

I'm in the camp of Glenn Beck, I'll stand with anybody who stands for peace.

terrorists and violent revolutionaries need not apply

[The Anvil]

I'm in the camp of Glenn Beck,

Your tent just blew over. 

[f6john]

Ignorance is not paying attention to those whose stated goal is your death. Well, except for the truly ignorant, they ignore the truth, facts, logic and common sense. You simply can't help the unwilling. They'll resent you and you'll frustrate yourself.

Some on this forum would be more truthful if their forum name was something like Pool Pooper, Weak Buzzard or ABTT (Anything But The Truth).

All the best,

Mark

You confuse Islam with terrorism.  I live, work, and play in two countries that are vast majority Muslim... half of my employees in Malaysia are Muslim.  My golf caddy is Muslim.  And what you and Jess have posted about Islam is a crock of sh*t.  Not a single person here in KL, or in Indonesia has a stated goal of my death.
 
I don't have any use for religion... Christian, Jewish, Islam... but for folks like you to smear hundreds of millions of people who just get along with their life shows where the true ignorance lies.

     You are speaking of a group of people who will kill because you burn a copy of the Koran, correct? A group of people who equate a book to a human life? Your caddy may be a great guy and I don't know if he would kill you if you disrespected the Koran but if you treated him with the same disreguard as you do many here I doubt he would be your caddy for long. I was raised in a Christian home and my religious affiliation is Baptist. The day that the leadership approves, condones, or turns a blind eye to a murder because someone burned a copy of the Bible I will publicly and loudly announce that I will have no further connection with any part of the Baptist faith. My being Christian means I follow the teaching of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible, I don't have to be a Baptist to do that.


     I never hear a denouncement by Islam of the actions taken by the terrorists in the name of Islam. The silence of the millions of followers you mention is deafening.

[x]

You are speaking of a group of people who will kill because you burn a copy of the Koran, correct? A group of people who equate a book to a human life?

No, the people around me are your average Joe... going about their daily life... they'd get as excited about a Koran burning as you would about a flag burning or a bible burning.  Like I already said, they are not terrorists/extremists but you seem incapable of making the distinction.

Your caddy may be a great guy and I don't know if he would kill you if you disrespected the Koran but if you treated him with the same disreguard as you do many here I doubt he would be your caddy for long.

It's a she... I don't think she wants to kill me, either.

I was raised in a Christian home and my religious affiliation is Baptist. The day that the leadership approves, condones, or turns a blind eye to a murder because someone burned a copy of the Bible I will publicly and loudly announce that I will have no further connection with any part of the Baptist faith. My being Christian means I follow the teaching of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible, I don't have to be a Baptist to do that.


     I never hear a denouncement by Islam of the actions taken by the terrorists in the name of Islam. The silence of the millions of followers you mention is deafening.

Christian religious leaders have turned a blind eye to many injustices.  They turned a blind eye to the Jewish extermination in WWII.  You name the societal ill... it has been the rare church that has come out in favor of change.  No it's usually the other way...

[f6john]

You are speaking of a group of people who will kill because you burn a copy of the Koran, correct? A group of people who equate a book to a human life?

No, the people around me are your average Joe... going about their daily life... they'd get as excited about a Koran burning as you would about a flag burning or a bible burning.  Like I already said, they are not terrorists/extremists but you seem incapable of making the distinction.

Your caddy may be a great guy and I don't know if he would kill you if you disrespected the Koran but if you treated him with the same disreguard as you do many here I doubt he would be your caddy for long.

It's a she... I don't think she wants to kill me, either.

I was raised in a Christian home and my religious affiliation is Baptist. The day that the leadership approves, condones, or turns a blind eye to a murder because someone burned a copy of the Bible I will publicly and loudly announce that I will have no further connection with any part of the Baptist faith. My being Christian means I follow the teaching of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible, I don't have to be a Baptist to do that.


     I never hear a denouncement by Islam of the actions taken by the terrorists in the name of Islam. The silence of the millions of followers you mention is deafening.

Christian religious leaders have turned a blind eye to many injustices.  They turned a blind eye to the Jewish extermination in WWII.  You name the societal ill... it has been the rare church that has come out in favor of change.  No it's usually the other way...

,


   Great comebacks while ignoring the the issues posed, you seem incapable of making that distinction.

[hubcapsc]

Christian religious leaders have turned a blind eye to many injustices.  They turned a blind eye to the Jewish extermination in WWII.

When did "ooh, they did it too!" become a valid counterpoint?

Besides, your assertions are untrue. There's this thing called "Google" that
will pull up contemporary newspaper article after contemporary newspaper
article, such as this 1939 New York Times article:

CHRISTIAN GROUP TO BOYCOTT NAZIS; Dr. Schieffelin Says Body Will Not Buy Reich Goods, Use Its Ships or Visit Nation

Organization of a Christian group whose members will not buy German goods, travel on German ships or visit German territory was announced here yesterday by Dr. William Jay Schieffelin, chairman of ...

[Robert]

First there are alot of peaceful passages in the Koran but there is also the fact that you have to ignore all the books except for the latest one. It is in the previous books that talk about peace love. The last book which is about war and of course slaying infidels. This is the teaching from the Koran. Also why dont we ever hear that the president of Iran is claiming himself to be the fifth eman and that is the real reason why he is trying to aquire nuclear weapons. To usher in the new age for the Muslims that survive a nuclear war.

[larswlvs]

911 was and still is a terrible happening caused by islamic extremism but saying that I have to stand behind Strong Eagles reasoning on this that not all Muslims are terrorist and all terrorist are not Muslim. JMHO

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I was talking to a seemingly well educated guy (probably an academic from the local collage) shortly after 911. I stated my opinion which is and always has been that we should have nuked the source of our attack on 9/12.

He went into a long explanation concerning several Islamic Americans that he or his son know personally. About what kind of people they were, they're friendliness and their other good qualities.

When he was done I said this to him.

As Americans it's our duty to die if necessary to protect their right to worship or not worship as they see fit. Regardless of our own personal views concerning their religion or lack of it.

Would these Islamic Americans you are telling me about die for my right to worship or not worship as I see fit?

He paused for a few seconds, then said "no".  

[The Anvil]

I was talking to a seemingly well educated guy (probably an academic from the local collage) shortly after 911. I stated my opinion which is and always has been that we should have nuked the source of our attack on 9/12.

He went into a long explanation concerning several Islamic Americans that he or his son know personally. About what kind of people they were, they're friendliness and their other good qualities.

When he was done I said this to him.

As Americans it's our duty to die if necessary to protect their right to worship or not worship as they see fit. Regardless of our own personal views concerning their religion or lack of it.

Would these Islamic Americans you are telling me about die for my right to worship or not worship as I see fit?

He paused for a few seconds, then said "no".  

Then I'd ask you this; isn't that what's supposed to make us better than they are?

[3fan4life]

Well let me see,

The events CAUSED by Muslim Terrorists on September 11th, 2001







The reaction of the muslim world:




VS the reaction of the real world:







It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the REAL feelings of the muslims are. 


BUT THEN SE YOU AREN'T ALWAYS THE MOST INTELLIGENT MEMBER OF THE SPECIES 

[x]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the REAL feelings of the christians are.  


BUT THEN 3fan4life YOU AREN'T ALWAYS THE MOST INTELLIGENT MEMBER OF THE SPECIES  

[larswlvs]

SE i'm not real sure but I don't think Muslim religion support gays either..In fact I believe in some countries they execute them. In fact that where this all lies, in some countries are extremest and in others places much more moderate (Kosovo for instance, the US backed them against Serbia )
Religion has been the number one cause of all wars.   

[f6john]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the REAL feelings of the christians are.  


BUT THEN 3fan4life YOU AREN'T ALWAYS THE MOST INTELLIGENT MEMBER OF THE SPECIES  

    Show me that picture after they come over and and fly a plane into the building where you work and all the Christians are dancing in the street after your dead along with your fellow employees.

[Psychotic Bovine]

SE, I hope that was just to stir the pot.  You cannot possibly believe that the church of Phelps reflects all Christians?
just as I know that all Muslims aren't the murderous ba$tards that make the news (yes, I work with several muslims, too).
But, if you were just trying to stir the pot, you pretty much lost any credibility of being a non-bigot in my eyes.

[Skinhead]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the REAL feelings of the christians are.  


BUT THEN 3fan4life YOU AREN'T ALWAYS THE MOST INTELLIGENT MEMBER OF THE SPECIES  

Dude,

Send me a couple pounds of whatever it is you are smoking, because that picture proves that the overwhelming MAJORITY of Christian's are willing to denounce the radical fringe groups, which is without question what the WBC is.   I haven't heard PEACEFUL muslims denounce the radicals, the way non WBC Christians denounce the WBC.  The 2 guys mocking the WBC dude in the photo is proof.  You need help.

[Psychotic Bovine]

SE i'm not real sure but I don't think Muslim religion support gays either..In fact I believe in some countries they execute them. In fact that where this all lies, in some countries are extremest and in others places much more moderate (Kosovo for instance, the US backed them against Serbia )
Religion has been the number one cause of all wars.   

Religion the cause of all wars?  I doubt that.  Hate?  possibly.  Greed?  possibly.  Extension of politics?  yeah, possibly.  In fact, percentage wise, I bet religion isn't even in the top 5.

[The Anvil]

In fact, percentage wise, I bet religion isn't even in the top 5.

I'll bet that it is, although I'd agree with your larger point that it's hardly the cause of all of them. In fact, as of late I'd say that it's usually other factors, at least in the Western world. But viewed through the long lens of history...

But SE is also right in that the actions of some Muslims does not represent the religion as a whole just as the behavior of the Phelps supporters does not represent Christianity. But if all you look at is the pictures of them with their hateful signs then you might think otherwise. Did some Muslims celebrate 9/11? Sure. But I personally know more who grieved along with us.

[3fan4life]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the REAL feelings of the christians are.  


BUT THEN 3fan4life YOU AREN'T ALWAYS THE MOST INTELLIGENT MEMBER OF THE SPECIES  

I'm not in that PICTURE.

I am a Christian and I have OPENLY DENOUNCED the WBC as being both IDIOTS and NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS many times right here on this forum.

The Idiots at WBC are a bunch of bigots and about any other negative term that you can think of to describe them. What they are not is Good Christians or Good Americans.

What the idiots at WBC were fighting was a $5,000,000.00 judgement that had been brought against them as the result of a lawsuit that had been filed on behalf of the family of a Marine Cpl who was    KIA.


The bottom line does seem to be that the idiots at WBC are using this to make money, and they were fighting not to have to give any of it away.  

I understand that the WBC idiots profess to be protesting homosexuals.  

In the end these "HOLY ROLLERS" will get their "just dessrts".  

IF the idiots from WBC have the "Right" to protest at Soldier's funerals then why don't some people from Colorado have the right to protest against the WBC idiots ?

 
IF YOU HAD HALF A BRAIN YOU'D KNOW THIS ! ! !                                            

[Psychotic Bovine]

In fact, percentage wise, I bet religion isn't even in the top 5.

I'll bet that it is, although I'd agree with your larger point that it's hardly the cause of all of them. In fact, as of late I'd say that it's usually other factors, at least in the Western world. But viewed through the long lens of history...

But SE is also right in that the actions of some Muslims does not represent the religion as a whole just as the behavior of the Phelps supporters does not represent Christianity. But if all you look at is the pictures of them with their hateful signs then you might think otherwise. Did some Muslims celebrate 9/11? Sure. But I personally know more who grieved along with us.

Sorry, research doesn't hold true about religion being the major cause of most wars:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/world/04/war_audit_pdf/pdf/war_audit.pdf

Interesting quote from this article.

"Atheistic totalitarian states (Stalin’s Russia and Mao’s China) have perpetrated more
mass murder than any state dominated by a religious faith. Hitler’s Germany,
nominally a predominantly Christian state, but a totalitarian one, was responsible for
the single most devastating genocide in history of a group identified by their religion:
six million Jewish people."

[Robert]

Just curious why would anyone belong to a religion that you dont follow the Holy Book for that religion. If it teaches you to go out and kill people and you dont then why follow? If you know whats in there and admit you are a Muslim then is it just a word? So we dont start about what it teaches in the Bible, when Jesus came we got a new covenant that we dont have to stone people who are in sin,  WHEW what a relief. The Bible even says its not the ones that just use my name but those that follow me.

[3fan4life]

CALLED AND RAISED.................