Problem with u turn on I/S

[czuch]

Play with it enough and you can take the test on it.
 We had a power dealer here and they had the layout painted on the parkinglot for the licence class .One day I was foolin around on it and did it with no problems.
Two of the mechanics were in the roll up door clapping their hands.
Then I blasted out of the parking lot. Turns out they both had Valks and we laughed about how we could do that on such a large bike. Finesse,balance,power, just plain cool.

[..]

This is good reading.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/braking-tips.htm

[Paxton]

After reading this thread, I truly believe that buying the "Ride Like a Pro" CD is a great investment. 
http://www.ridelikeapro.com/

It covers behaviors and skills and ALL one needs to know about taming the fat lady or any large cruiser.
 
You'll learn 'bout right turns, left turns, figure 8's... ALL w/o ever removing your foot from the peg. 

It also covers, making appropriate adjustments and set up for your optimum riding comfort and control;
and how to lift the dropped-down-bike by yourself. 

I don't ride much, therefore, I try watching the video often, especially when am planning a ride. 
It is a small investment on SAFE and CONFIDENT riding. 

[salty1]

Paxton, the video is a good investment and will help you build skills mentally. Then you have to go out and practice what you learn to build your

riding proficiency. I review my video about once a year and pick up something every time I do. Then on future rides practice, practice, etc.      ???   

[dghby]

New here, but my experienced advice is much like all the others. i have been riding a Wing for last 12 years. i religously take an experience rider course every 2 years with the group i ride with. been riding since i was 10 years old and always learn something new. ( but you have to be open minded going in) we look forward to this course for the figure 8 and u-turn box. which has come to be a bit competitive between us all. But, i have learned this manuever quite well and the key to it all, and I mean everything, is turning your head over your shoulder and looking as far back as you can and want to go and i guarantee she will come around. i love doing this course with others that bring little sportsters and the such and watch in amazement as you take that 1800 into the box and just cruise through it like it was nothing. I used this technique when i decided to buy my first Valkyrie IS. i took it for a test spin and immediately went to an empty parking lot to see how it truly handled. first time on the Valk and i done the figure 8 one time and drove out of the lot. bought the bike, what a machine, thats for another topic though, this isn't my thread. Just turn you head over your left shoulder and keep your eyes up, piece of cake after that.

[Chiefy]

Good thread.  I'm close enough that I just may sign up for his class.  U-turns and slow speed stuff is coming easier.  Instead of white knuckles, I only dread U-eees now.   

[Chiefy]

Keeping the bike up is obviously the most important thing.  At this point, I can generally U-turn feet up.  And we all really should get proficient at the slow speed stuff.  In the meantime, I've gotten good at "reading" an up-coming U-turn.  And if I think the best thing for me and my bike is to crab-walk the u-turn, I couldn't care less what the biker behind me thinks.  Better to crab walk then to kick the seat and curse out the bike for tipping over. 

[MarkT]

I've seen several folks advising to use the techniques taught by Jerry Paladino - Ride like a pro.  They are right, and so is he - the techniques surely work.  Basically 3 points - Look around the turn, use the friction zone, drag the rear brake. If you haven't already, go to his web site and buy his video - I've bought several as he has added to them.  Jerry is a motor LEO instructor in Florida - really knows what he's doing.  http://www.ridelikeapro.com/

Interestingly, we have a 2003 Magna - last year they made it.  The stops on the fork stop with much less angle than the Valk.  Such that the wife won't do sharp turns - always wants to go around the block,  etc.  Can't get her to practice sharp turns.  I'm pretty sure it can turn fairly sharp as it has a shorter wheelbase.  Even so it can be inconvenient when moving it around the garage.

[Valkahuna]

Right or wrong.
If it's a tight turn start far right or left.
Turn bars to full lock, light throttle, light clutch feathering and if tight let the bike lean into it while you're slightly shifting your body mass to the high-side. Get it turned and roll out of it. This is without putting a foot down.
If the road has an exceptional crown to it, well it could get a little sloppy and there's always the chance of dumping it too or running off the pavement.

Lots of parking lot practice advised...
That's the way I do it anyway. And the first one of the season is tricky for me sans practice.
If your with other riders you may need to wait for them to manage anyway they can!

You forgot the most important part: Put your head on a swivel, and look where you want to go. Without that, all the rest of your great advice does not matter.

Woodwizzard, you can sign up for a MSF Advanced Rider course, or go through a H-D dealer and sign up for a "Skilled Rider" course. You'll learn stuff that can save your life!!! 

[macdoesit]

I ordered the ride like a pro dvd this morning from cruisercustomizing.com over night ship.


Sure do want to thank all the members, a ton of great info and vids, I hope all your effort has helped others as much as it has me. looking forward to the dvd tomorrow, will whatch it 4-5 times and take with me when I go practice. Sure hope I don't lay it down, it has never been laid over.

Some one should design an attachment to put on the bikes for practice and if it goes down wont let it go enough to damage,anyway thats another thread.

Again thank you for all your wisdom, Dam this is a great board.

[Valker]

I ordered the ride like a pro dvd this morning from cruisercustomizing.com over night ship.


Sure do want to thank all the members, a ton of great info and vids, I hope all your effort has helped others as much as it has me. looking forward to the dvd tomorrow, will whatch it 4-5 times and take with me when I go practice. Sure hope I don't lay it down, it has never been laid over.

Some one should design an attachment to put on the bikes for practice and if it goes down wont let it go enough to damage,anyway thats another thread.

Again thank you for all your wisdom, Dam this is a great board.

Slit some garden hose and tape it to your engine guards and the rear guards. If it falls, no scratches.

[macdoesit]

I ordered the ride like a pro dvd this morning from cruisercustomizing.com over night ship.


Sure do want to thank all the members, a ton of great info and vids, I hope all your effort has helped others as much as it has me. looking forward to the dvd tomorrow, will whatch it 4-5 times and take with me when I go practice. Sure hope I don't lay it down, it has never been laid over.

Some one should design an attachment to put on the bikes for practice and if it goes down wont let it go enough to damage,anyway thats another thread.

Again thank you for all your wisdom, Dam this is a great board.

Slit some garden hose and tape it to your engine guards and the rear guards. If it falls, no scratches.

What about fairing?

[Cruzen]

U turn on narrow 2 lane paved country road I have not atempted  on my I/S. Had no problem on a sportster that I had, repeat  had.
I hear the motorman ride like a pro is good. Have you seen it, what do you think?

May I make a suggestion to you.  Unless you just like posting stuff, if you really want answers to your questions use the SEARCH feature to see and review the previous discussions on such subjects.  These videos have been discussed in the past.  It stops folks from posting and reposting the same opinions over and over and over and over and over.................and over..........

[Jess from VA]

What about fairing?

Most slow (and even medium) speed dumps will land and slide on the fore and aft guards, only (at 40* or so).  If you tumble the bike or hit something or go off the road yeah more can hit.  If you are practicing in a parking lot and dump, it is very likely only the guards will hit..... and the damage is mostly out of sight with the bike righted.  You'll come off too (cause the bike slows down more rapidly than you do) (usually with you on your back going backwards), try to slide in one position and not tumble, and wear gear.  

If you've never done it by accident, go out and gently lay the bike over on the guards and see how stable it is (rock it) (do it on an empty/low tank of gas).  This will show you right where to put the split hose.  I never used the hose and some of my guards are rubbed.... not from practice.  If you take your time and practice progressively tighter turns as skill and confidence grows, you can practice without falling, probably.

EDIT:    Cruzen, bike forums are all about helping new guys.

[macdoesit]

U turn on narrow 2 lane paved country road I have not atempted  on my I/S. Had no problem on a sportster that I had, repeat  had.
I hear the motorman ride like a pro is good. Have you seen it, what do you think?

May I make a suggestion to you.  Unless you just like posting stuff, if you really want answers to your questions use the SEARCH feature to see and review the previous discussions on such subjects.  These videos have been discussed in the past.  It stops folks from posting and reposting the same opinions over and over and over and over and over.................and over..........

Didn't know there was a search feature, went thru 20 pages manual, not fun. Thanx, learn something every day.
Being new this helps getting familiar with each other for when we do meet.  I'll have to figure out the search.

[donaldcc]

  Back brake on, feather clutch, RPMs are your friend and look way back where you want to go.  keep feet off ground when you practice.  

[Jess from VA]

keep feet off ground when you practice.

Yes, and if you are rolling forward and the bike is definitely going over, trying to catch it with your leg will usually just injure your leg/ankle/foot/knee/quadreceps, and you still fall over and slide on the guards.  Tuck in and let the guards take the hit ...... and slide off gently as you can.

[..]

If this petite lady can pick up a bike you can.

http://www.pinkribbonrides.com/dropped.html

[Tundra]

Sounds like you want to learn, do yourself a favor and buy the "Ride like a Pro" at any price it's a deal.
It will have you and your machine in harmony.

[..]

Lyn, If you have never done the MSF course go try it. Yep even the one for beginners. You may be surprised at what you would learn. Using the 250cc bike will really show you what you are capable of.

The course has you do the figure 8 in a box. On a 250 you can do threee circles in the box 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I owe this Maneuver to Valker, the master of Dancing with the Fat Lady!

Of course, head turn with your eyes fixed on your exit point is the first step.
As you turn the handle bars, keep your torso vertical and allow only the bike lean in the turn.
Shift your weight to the outside edge of the seat and apply pressure to the outside foot peg to counterweight the lean.

Especially useful on gravel... I hate gravel!

That is another problem That I'm kinda getting used to but not yet comfortable with and that is turning my head and eyes to where I want to go instead of where I'm going at the time.

If you can master the head turn, a lot of issues will magically resolve themselves.  It's like having the bike read your mind.  

Almost hit a tree one time making a turn in my yard, couldn't take my eyes off the tree and I could not make the bike go the other direction, barely missed it.

Classic target fixation!  I did that to the guy that taught me how to ride... almost hit him... LOL

I remember riding bicycles on the sidewalk as a kid. Never could figure out why if I got too close to the edge of the sidewalk it was like I was frozen there and I'd ride the edge till I rolled on down into the road.

Never understood it till I watched "ride like a pro", then it clicked. Once I fixated on edge of the curb that's were I was gonna ride.

[..]

I'll wager that when you change lanes on a multi lane if you look at the raised lane diviiders like "cats eyes" 75% of the time you will hit them.

Don't look at them and 75% of the time you will miss them.

[Valker]

Lyn, If you have never done the MSF course go try it. Yep even the one for beginners. You may be surprised at what you would learn. Using the 250cc bike will really show you what you are capable of.

The course has you do the figure 8 in a box. On a 250 you can do threee circles in the box 

On a Valk, with techniques and practice, you can do three in that box also! 

[macdoesit]

Have the ride like a pro dvd just delivered  Fedx. Will view a few times before trying.

Will report back with update this evening, cross your fingers and say a little prayer for me.

  " May God watch over us especialy when we ride, Amen"

[hubcapsc]

Lyn, If you have never done the MSF course go try it. Yep even the one for beginners. You may be surprised at what you would learn. Using the 250cc bike will really show you what you are capable of.

The course has you do the figure 8 in a box. On a 250 you can do threee circles in the box 

The figure 8 (or maybe it was a snakey pattern that they ran us down) is where the
ST1300 riders go down because of their linked brakes...

-Mike "not Britman, just the guy that was there with me  "

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Have the ride like a pro dvd just delivered  Fedx. Will view a few times before trying.

Will report back with update this evening, cross your fingers and say a little prayer for me.

  " May God watch over us especialy when we ride, Amen"

Prayer sent my friend.

Find a vacant parking lot to practice in. I use a state boat-dock parking lot. It's always almost vacant or vacant through the week. Don't expect to be there in one day. Shoot for the end of the season if you need too. The hardest thing for me to learn on the Valk was making graceful stops. And every once in a while I still make a somewhat awkward stop, in particular when there are deep semi troughs in the road.

The Valk is a big gorgeous lady and you have to treat her right. You can get by with riding a smaller bike with just experience and practice. To ride a big bike well you have to use technique so you can avoid using strength.

[Gryphon Rider]

Find a vacant parking lot to practice in. I use a state boat-dock parking lot.

Frye, if you were REALLY good, you would use the boat dock. 

Seriously, if a rider has the Valk steering turned full-lock, he/she can make a U-turn barely within the lines of two standard width (8.5') parking stalls (17' total width).  This is according to my sometimes flawed memory, so I'm willing to be corrected by someone else who practices full-lock turns.

[Cruzen]

Locally the parking spaces are 9' wide and yes the Valk can make the U-Turn in that amount of space.  It all depends on how many beers have been consuumed prior to attempting the turn.   

[macdoesit]

I'm still alive. Went to college parking lot to practice, crashed thru the fence onto football field ran over cheerleaders,                                                       
   "Talk about target Fixation"

Everything went well, I'll follow way video is laid out. When I get the other manuvers down then the u turn. I did learn how to look over my shoulder but my arms still will not let bike turn that sharp yet. Practiced about 2 hours then had to go ride, beaytiful day 80.

[Gilligan]

Seriously, if a rider has the Valk steering turned full-lock, he/she can make a U-turn barely within the lines of two standard width (8.5') parking stalls (17' total width).  This is according to my sometimes flawed memory, so I'm willing to be corrected by someone else who practices full-lock turns.

Gryphon Rider, you are spot on.



The slow maneuvering and U-turns with 2-up on our IS with a maximum load were what finally ended our motorcycling adventures.  The Valk IS with a maximum load was never an easy bike to ride into sharp U-turns with 2-up.  I had 3 dumps the first year we had it.  Over ten years later, it happened again.  The difference was that I was not as strong at age 65, and I lost confidence.  Practicing the ideas recommended in these posts while riding 1-up and then 2-up with a maximum load will bring the necessary skills and confidence.  Ride Safe, everyone.

[Paxton]

WOODWIZARD's QUOTE:
"... Some one should design an attachment to put on the bikes for practice and if it goes down wont let it go enough to damage..."

========================================================

If you are watching "Ride Like A Pro," by now you've seen that the protection you want for the Lady is adequately covered in the video. 

On another motorcycle site that I visit, folks get together in small groups (4-5), watch "Ride Like A Pro," then go and practice together. 

[..]

I'm still alive. Went to college parking lot to practice, crashed thru the fence onto football field ran over cheerleaders,                                                       
   "Talk about target Fixation"

Everything went well, I'll follow way video is laid out. When I get the other manuvers down then the u turn. I did learn how to look over my shoulder but my arms still will not let bike turn that sharp yet. Practiced about 2 hours then had to go ride, beaytiful day 80.

2 hours is too long. You will get hand cramps, arm cramps, shoulder cramps, neck cramps. Just from tension, trying too hard. You have to be relaxed whilst worrying about the bike falling over.You'll be too heavy or too light on the rear brake.

Remember if the bike feels like it's tipping over a bit of gas, lift the bike up and straighten the handlebars and that big sucker will pop upright.

Go practice for 15 or 20 minutes. Then go ride.

When you can ride a slow circle with the handlebars on full lock. To the right or left you will have conquered most of the slow riding skills needed for day to day riding.

[macdoesit]

I'm still alive. Went to college parking lot to practice, crashed thru the fence onto football field ran over cheerleaders,                                                       
   "Talk about target Fixation"

Everything went well, I'll follow way video is laid out. When I get the other manuvers down then the u turn. I did learn how to look over my shoulder but my arms still will not let bike turn that sharp yet. Practiced about 2 hours then had to go ride, beaytiful day 80.

2 hours is too long. You will get hand cramps, arm cramps, shoulder cramps, neck cramps. Just from tension, trying too hard. You have to be relaxed whilst worrying about the bike falling over.You'll be too heavy or too light on the rear brake.

Remember if the bike feels like it's tipping over a bit of gas, lift the bike up and straighten the handlebars and that big sucker will pop upright.

Go practice for 15 or 20 minutes. Then go ride.

When you can ride a slow circle with the handlebars on full lock. To the right or left you will have conquered most of the slow riding skills needed for day to day riding.

 
Your right to long, good tip about giving gas never thought of it. I need to trust bike more i can look over my shoulder but still can't make myself turn sharp, seems like that sharp it will go down. I know it wont you all do it. I need to trust the bike.

[Jess from VA]

Paul I agree with your comments.  But I don't think riding with the bars pegged at full lock is a reasonable goal.  I can turn the tightest circles and 8s, and every maneuver there is, but I don't go to full lock, very close, but not actually on the stops.  I'm just saying.  

[..]

Paul I agree with your comments.  But I don't think riding with the bars pegged at full lock is a reasonable goal.  I can turn the tightest circles and 8s, and every maneuver there is, but I don't go to full lock, very close, but not actually on the stops.  I'm just saying.  

All that matters is that what you can do works for you and you are happy with it.

The last time I went to a slow riding day at a local church a guy on a chopper stunned me doing the slow tight circle. I watched as he rode into the circle thinking this shoud be fun.

As he left the circle after a few go rounds I gave him a long round of applause

[Jess from VA]

I need to trust bike more i can look over my shoulder but still can't make myself turn sharp, seems like that sharp it will go down. I know it wont you all do it. I need to trust the bike.

Do you have anybody (experienced) to ride or practice with?  Often just watching someone do the maneuver (live and in person) can help you visualize and repeat it.  

You do have good tires, don't you?  

[macdoesit]

I need to trust bike more i can look over my shoulder but still can't make myself turn sharp, seems like that sharp it will go down. I know it wont you all do it. I need to trust the bike.

Do you have anybody (experienced) to ride or practice with?  Often just watching someone do the maneuver (live and in person) can help you visualize and repeat it.  

You do have good tires, don't you?  

Nobody to practice with. I took the 2000 I/S has good tires also PO droped it so already has a little damage, after i learn then I'll take the 99 I/S.

That is what I was thinking today, If I could see someone do it  in person I would have more confidence.

[Jess from VA]

Well, we're only 1314.15 miles apart....... come on over.  I'm a former instructor.  I taught a wife from scratch, so I have the patience of Job (and a nervous condition).  

Try this, start a slow wide circle (left is always easier), and each time you go around get just a little tighter.  Try to keep an even slow speed, but not a crawl.  Cover the brakes, but don't touch them unless you must.  Learn to trust that a lean will not fall over, unless you stop moving forward.  Round and round, tighter and tighter.  

BTW, if you own a bicycle, you can try the same thing to build confidence in a lean (thou I hate those skinny racing wheels/tires; mountain bike wheels/tires are better), except you have to keep pedaling.  Wear gear for this too.

An MSF course should probably be in your future.  No insult intended... practice on a Honda Rebel is way less intimidating than on our land yachts. (so long as you're not 6'6")

[macdoesit]

Well, we're only 1314.15 miles apart....... come on over.  I'm a former instructor.  I taught a wife from scratch, so I have the patience of Job (and a nervous condition). 

Try this, start a slow wide circle (left is always easier), and each time you go around get just a little tighter.  Try to keep an even slow speed, but not a crawl.  Cover the brakes, but don't touch them unless you must.  Learn to trust that a lean will not fall over, unless you stop moving forward.  Round and round, tighter and tighter. 

BTW, if you own a bicycle, you can try the same thing to build confidence in a lean (thou I hate those skinny racing wheels/tires; mountain bike wheels/tires are better), except you have to keep pedaling.  Wear gear for this too.

If you are going to be up for the next couple hours leave the light on  I'll be right over.

No bicycle, I'll do large circle and try to work my way down. Wish I lived about 1310.15 miles closer.

[macdoesit]

Well, we're only 1314.15 miles apart....... come on over.  I'm a former instructor.  I taught a wife from scratch, so I have the patience of Job (and a nervous condition). 

Try this, start a slow wide circle (left is always easier), and each time you go around get just a little tighter.  Try to keep an even slow speed, but not a crawl.  Cover the brakes, but don't touch them unless you must.  Learn to trust that a lean will not fall over, unless you stop moving forward.  Round and round, tighter and tighter. 

BTW, if you own a bicycle, you can try the same thing to build confidence in a lean (thou I hate those skinny racing wheels/tires; mountain bike wheels/tires are better), except you have to keep pedaling.  Wear gear for this too.

If you are going to be up for the next couple hours leave the light on  I'll be right over.

No bicycle, I'll do large circle and try to work my way down. Wish I lived about 1310.15 miles closer.

I don't want to work my way down do I.