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f6gal
Administrator
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Surprise, AZ
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 10:25:24 PM » |
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And we know this is the "Real George Zimmerman" how?
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donaldcc
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 10:30:44 PM » |
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And we know this is the "Real George Zimmerman" how?
heck if i know, but doesn't matter much to me since i think the guy needs to be arrested and let the legal system TRY to figure it out. MODIFY: Supposedly his lawyers have verified the website. |
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 10:34:31 PM by donaldcc »
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Don
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 02:32:05 AM » |
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And we know this is the "Real George Zimmerman" how?
heck if i know, but doesn't matter much to me since i think the guy needs to be arrested and let the legal system TRY to figure it out. MODIFY: Supposedly his lawyers have verified the website. I'm assumming as I gues you are??? Wasn't he already arrested when he was taken to the local jail in cuffs? Isn't the legal system trying to "figure it out"? |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 05:44:17 AM » |
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Wasn't he already arrested when he was taken to the local jail in cuffs? To my knowledge he was never arrested only taken into custody. They cuff you for everything these days. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2012, 05:47:05 AM » |
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Wasn't he already arrested when he was taken to the local jail in cuffs? To my knowledge he was never arrested only taken into custody. They cuff you for everything these days. I'm assumming as I gues you are??? |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2012, 06:07:31 AM » |
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Wasn't he already arrested when he was taken to the local jail in cuffs? To my knowledge he was never arrested only taken into custody. They cuff you for everything these days. I'm assumming as I gues you are??? Well I'm pretty sure that news reports specifically pointed out that he was never actually placed under arrest only "taken into custody". |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2012, 06:12:28 AM » |
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Wasn't he already arrested when he was taken to the local jail in cuffs? To my knowledge he was never arrested only taken into custody. They cuff you for everything these days. I'm assumming as I gues you are??? Well I'm pretty sure that news reports specifically pointed out that he was never actually placed under arrest only "taken into custody". Yep, we all believe the news these days don't we  |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2012, 06:21:54 AM » |
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The definition of arrest is deprived of your freedom to leave. Taken into custody is arrested.
At 17 I was invited to follow the police car to the station; the police car was carrying my 12-pack of beer. I was not in cuffs, but I was not free to leave; at least not for very long.
You may be detained for questioning, ticketing etc. If let go, you were not arrested. If not let go, you were arrested.
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signart
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2012, 06:24:00 AM » |
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From the time you are not free to leave, and until you leave on your own free will, you are under arrest.
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Titan
Member
Posts: 819
BikeLess
Lexington, SC
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 06:28:25 AM » |
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From the time you are not free to leave, and until you leave on your own free will, you are under arrest.
No you're not. |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 06:39:22 AM » |
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Wasn't he already arrested when he was taken to the local jail in cuffs? To my knowledge he was never arrested only taken into custody. They cuff you for everything these days. I'm assumming as I gues you are??? Well I'm pretty sure that news reports specifically pointed out that he was never actually placed under arrest only "taken into custody". Yep, we all believe the news these days don't we Well then show me where he was arrested. An arrest report, etc. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Michvalk
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 06:42:01 AM » |
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NO!
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The Anvil
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 07:01:57 AM » |
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From the time you are not free to leave, and until you leave on your own free will, you are under arrest.
But you can be in police custody without actually being under arrest. So just because you're in a police questioning room does not mean that you are under arrest. Zimmerman was taken in for questioning and then released. Now, had he become belligerent or attempted to leave before the police were satisfied with his side of the story they may have placed him under arrest. But he was cooperative and they found nothing to directly contradict his account of the events so they released him. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16824
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 07:07:02 AM » |
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I believe what Jess said is on the money... you can be detained and you can be arrested.
In either case, you're not free to go. I didn't know they handcuffed detained people...
-Mike
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The Anvil
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 07:14:27 AM » |
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I believe what Jess said is on the money... you can be detained and you can be arrested.
In either case, you're not free to go. I didn't know they handcuffed detained people...
-Mike
They didn't always. Now it's like gloving up for medical personnel; universal precautions. I've seen bruised women go for rides front-cuffed before. Think about it; this guy just shot someone. Before you've really had an opportunity to question him in depth in a controlled environment are you going to want him around cops with guns on their hips with his hands free? |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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signart
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 07:51:50 AM » |
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If you are taken into custody, you are under arrest. Look it up.
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Tx Bohemian
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 07:57:55 AM » |
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YES
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Remember, if you are on a bike and wreck with a car no matter how "in the right" you are you are going to lose. RIDE LIKE EVERBODY IS OUT TO GET YOU!!
Al
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The Anvil
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 08:16:08 AM » |
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If you are taken into custody, you are under arrest. Look it up.
Well it looks like you already did so why don't you link us? |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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98valk
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2012, 08:50:27 AM » |
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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steve 3054
Member
Posts: 672
VRCC # 34853
Sanford,Fl. 352-267-1553
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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2012, 08:56:15 AM » |
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You are not under arrest until someone says the magic words, " you are under arrest" In this case Mr. Z was not arrested, information was opbtained and turned over to the States Attorneys Office for investigation. As a general rule nobody goes for a ride in a police vehicle w/o being handcuffed for the safty of the officer and to follow department guidelines. No one is going to kill someone w/o a full investigation by the high court in the area. There are many reasons not to " arrest " someone to early, for example, If the PO takes someone by the hospital to get them sewn up, the PO would wait to " arrest " until after treatment. This is done so the City or County will not get the bill. In Florida once you " arrest" someone you have 180 days to bring them to trial or the state forfiets the case. There are many reasons to handcuff someone,generally for safty, safty for all. Hope this helps. This case in still being investigated and until the attorney decides what she is going to do, this will continue with everyone " knowing " absolutely nothing...  |
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Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you
meet.
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2012, 09:23:57 AM » |
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There is common parlance, and there is criminal procedure. The later is a matter of State law, so long as it is consistent with US Constitutional law, as defined in the Federal courts. Most of the time common parlance is fine, and it is not really an issue.
However, in a contested criminal case, the point of arrest can be very important. Principally, your right to Miranda warnings (silence and counsel) follows an arrest. If your incriminating statements came before arrest (and Miranda), they may be used against you (unless your attorney shows you were in fact under arrest and should have been Mirandized before further questioning, in which case any statements made after the point of arrest can be suppressed from use against you). Arrest does not require the magic words of you're under arrest; but that is the starting point of the inquiry. The devil is in the details.
A wise man does not give incriminating statements to the authorities whether under arrest or not. Be polite, be professional, appear to be cooperative, but do not incriminate yourself. Easier said than done.... if you have seriously screwed up, don't talk at all (beyond name rank and serial number).
As Ron White once said..... I had the right to remain silent, but I lacked the ability.
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flcjr
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2012, 09:38:16 AM » |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2012, 09:42:49 AM » |
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And we know this is the "Real George Zimmerman" how?
Because I said I am I mean HIS lawyer said he is........  |
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2012, 10:18:12 AM » |
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Due process of law is a Constitutional right, and a very good thing.
It often takes some time to get it right.
A rush to judgment is human nature, and generally a bad thing.
This case requires due process, just like any other.
I would not donate, until such time as all the facts are known.
Even if the shooting was purely justified, my limited funds would likely go to more important causes.
ABO
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alph
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2012, 10:20:54 AM » |
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zimmerman went out looking for a fight that night. wanting to be the hero.
well, he's got a fight now!!
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!!   |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2012, 11:01:55 AM » |
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The Zimmerman family has formally asked Eric Holder (DOJ) if its legal for the New Black Panthers to make public death threats and post wanted posters with a bounty. Of course its not legal, but the good old boy in the DOJ will weasle a way to NOT do anything about it. Of course they are just fine upstanding citizens asking for justice what could be wrong with that |
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Thespian
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2012, 11:06:36 AM » |
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zimmerman went out looking for a fight that night. wanting to be the hero.
well, he's got a fight now!!
+1 |
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Smooth is where it's at. (o_0)
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The Anvil
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2012, 11:18:05 AM » |
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The Zimmerman family has formally asked Eric Holder (DOJ) if its legal for the New Black Panthers to make public death threats and post wanted posters with a bounty. Of course its not legal, but the good old boy in the DOJ will weasle a way to NOT do anything about it. Of course they are just fine upstanding citizens asking for justice what could be wrong with that THAT has me more aggravated than anything else in all of this. Not only do we have idiots like the NBP's causing trouble but public figures like Spike Lee are re-Tweeting George Zimmerman's address. Only it turned out to be someone else's address entirely.* Why are these people not being held accountable? THERE is your clear-cut double standard. *I hope those people sue Spike Lee for every buck he made in his film career. All fifty of em. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Serk
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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2012, 11:21:07 AM » |
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I hope those people sue Spike Lee for every buck he made in his film career. All fifty of em.
He already bought them off... Details weren't disclosed, but if I were a betting man I think it'd be a safe bet to say there's a "You can't sue us!" clause in whatever offer he gave them... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-57407018-10391698/spike-lee-settles-with-couple-after-retweet-blunder/ |
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ |
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The Anvil
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« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2012, 11:29:46 AM » |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Willow
Administrator
Member
Posts: 16863
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2012, 11:32:59 AM » |
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He already bought them off... Details weren't disclosed, but if I were a betting man I think it'd be a safe bet to say there's a "You can't sue us!" clause in whatever offer he gave them... Good for them! I hope it cost him enough to give him second thoughts about doing that again. I hope they got enough to live the rest of their lives in comfort and safety. |
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Tx Bohemian
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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2012, 01:13:03 PM » |
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zimmerman went out looking for a fight that night. wanting to be the hero. Really?? Please explain how you came to this determination. |
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Remember, if you are on a bike and wreck with a car no matter how "in the right" you are you are going to lose. RIDE LIKE EVERBODY IS OUT TO GET YOU!!
Al
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The Anvil
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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2012, 01:31:30 PM » |
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zimmerman went out looking for a fight that night. wanting to be the hero. Really?? Please explain how you came to this determination. I wouldn't personally make that "determination" but it's well within the realm of plausibility. Maybe even likely considering some of his past habits and activities. It's by no means a fact though. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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john
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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2012, 01:45:50 PM » |
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vrcc # 19002
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Tx Bohemian
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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2012, 01:56:47 PM » |
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zimmerman went out looking for a fight that night. wanting to be the hero. Really?? Please explain how you came to this determination. I wouldn't personally make that "determination" but it's well within the realm of plausibility. Maybe even likely considering some of his past habits and activities. It's by no means a fact though. True that. But as I see it it's also "well within the realm of plausibility" that with the excessive amount of home burgularies reported in that neighborhood that Zimmerman was not out "looking for a fight" but trying to make his neighborhood safe, something that evidently the Sanford FL police could not do! And I can understand because we've had a rash of vandalism in my neighborhood that makes me extremely vigilant (and PO'd). Not saying I'd drive around looking but definatly will report if I see something suspicious! And I'm not talking about something as horrendous as home burgularies, just some doof with a pellet gun shooting out windshields or an idiot cutting donuts in yards. |
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Remember, if you are on a bike and wreck with a car no matter how "in the right" you are you are going to lose. RIDE LIKE EVERBODY IS OUT TO GET YOU!!
Al
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alph
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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2012, 02:04:12 PM » |
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zimmerman went out looking for a fight that night. wanting to be the hero. Really?? Please explain how you came to this determination. to me a neighborhood watch means "i'm going to WATCH for trouble". zimmerman didn't do that. zimmerman went after martin, stalked him, tracked every move that kid made that night. zimmerman had the choice to NOT bring a gun, zimmerman ASSUMED that martin was up to mischief. zimmerman went after a person that was not guilty of anything other then not being from that neighborhood. had martin been in a group of kids, making noise, throwing bottles, disrupting the peace, then it would be a totally different story, but in this case, there's ONE kid, unarmed, probably scared 'cause he knows he's being stalked, so you have a choice, fight, or flight. you run, you're guilty, you stand your ground, you're dead...... i'm sorry. if it were my son, i'd be hunting down zimmerman too. |
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!! |
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T.P.
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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2012, 02:35:41 PM » |
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 02:37:56 PM by T.P. »
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"Well you can call me T, or you can call me P, or you can call me T.P. but you doesn't hasta call me Toilet Paper"
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8763
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2012, 02:43:16 PM » |
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zimmerman went out looking for a fight that night. wanting to be the hero. Really?? Please explain how you came to this determination. to me a neighborhood watch means "i'm going to WATCH for trouble". zimmerman didn't do that. zimmerman went after martin, stalked him, tracked every move that kid made that night. zimmerman had the choice to NOT bring a gun, zimmerman ASSUMED that martin was up to mischief. zimmerman went after a person that was not guilty of anything other then not being from that neighborhood. had martin been in a group of kids, making noise, throwing bottles, disrupting the peace, then it would be a totally different story, but in this case, there's ONE kid, unarmed, probably scared 'cause he knows he's being stalked, so you have a choice, fight, or flight. you run, you're guilty, you stand your ground, you're dead...... i'm sorry. if it were my son, i'd be hunting down zimmerman too. That's a stretch! You must be buying the media's story hook. line, and sinker. In light of the more details that have come to light, it sounds to me like Zimmerman was not stalking him, did not follow him when told not to do so, and if he had left his piece at home may very well be dead now. Trevone doesn't sound like the fine upstanding citizen they first portrayed him to be. I'm waiting for the facts to come out in a official report before I make up my mind, but I think I have a pretty good understanding of how this will turn out. |
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FryeVRCCDS0067
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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2012, 03:09:10 PM » |
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Not many years ago one of my son's was startled by his wife's yell when she saw someone outside with their face plastered against the window. They have had their vehicles broken into several times and window peepers several times. My son works nights and this kind of thing rightfully scares his wife.
This time my son was home, grabbed a shotgun and headed out to find the guy while his wife called the police. When the police got there and found Joe walking down the alley with a shotgun, they had only one question, which way did the guy go?
In my world, that's how it should be.
Whether charges are filled against Zimmerman should hinge on one thing only. Did the 6'2" "kid" attack him or not? I'm 54 years-old, 5' 7" with a game leg and I have little doubt that many 6'2" kids could beat me to death. Should I allow them to do it if I have the means to defend myself? Is a man who allows himself to be a victim somehow morally superior to someone who protects himself?
Again, not in my world.
To me, regardless of any other facts, if the boy did indeed attack Zimmerman, did indeed have him down on the ground slamming his head into the concrete then he was right to pull and gun and defend himself. He may have shown poor judgement getting into that situation but if the other guy attacked him first then his judgement was even worse.
Any way you go, it's a very sad way for things to turn out for all involved.
Maybe the ones most to blame are the criminal predators who originally put the neighborhood on a hair trigger.
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.'' -- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964  |
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