Valkyrie Riders Cruiser Club
March 31, 2026, 12:37:21 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Ultimate Seats Link VRCC Store
Homepage : Photostash : JustPics : Shoptalk : Old Tech Archive : Classifieds : Contact Staff
News: If you're new to this message board, read THIS!
 
MarkT Exhaust
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Can you be "too Caucasian"?  (Read 1963 times)
Rams
Member
*****
Posts: 16940


So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« on: April 20, 2012, 07:09:39 AM »

CHARLOTTE—An aspiring stock-car driver is suing NASCAR, claiming he was denied the opportunity to compete in NASCAR’s diversity program because he looks “too Caucasian.”

Driver sues NASCAR, claims he was excluded from diversity program for being ‘too Caucasian’

NASCAR argues that in trying to change the “face” of the sport, it has the right to select drivers for its diversity program based on skin color, attorneys for the sanctioning body and its former diversity program administrators have told a U.S. District court.

Michael Rodriguez, a driver from Pennsylvania, says in his complaint filed in U.S. District Court that he was denied the opportunity to compete in the 2005 and 2006 Drive For Diversity combines.

Rodriguez is suing NASCAR and Access Communications, which operated NASCAR’s diversity program from its inception in 2004 until 2008 and conducted the combines that are designed for teams in NASCAR’s regional series to scout minority drivers.

NASCAR’s Drive for Diversity program was created to develop minority drivers and crewmen and help them advance through the NASCAR ranks with the goal of reaching the sport’s top series. Since 2004, the program has included 41 drivers, with most being selected multiple times. There currently are six drivers in the program racing in various NASCAR regional series.

Rodriguez, now in his early 20s, is asking for undetermined damages for violation of his civil rights.

NASCAR and Access Communications are seeking to get the case, filed in January 2010, thrown out before it goes to trial. Attorneys for NASCAR and the company argued their side in a summary judgment hearing Wednesday in federal court in Charlotte.

The case has forced NASCAR and Access to work together even though NASCAR turned over its diversity program to former Dale Earnhardt Inc. executive Max Siegel in 2009 after Access failed to produce a significant number of minority drivers who advanced to the national NASCAR ranks.

Judge Max Cogburn did not issue a ruling immediately after Wednesday’s hearing and indicated that he was uncomfortable with the case.

“The core question for the court,” the judge told the attorneys, “is can you discriminate on color in an effort to diversify?”

Rodriguez was invited to compete in the 2005 combine at age 15 with a resume that included two state karting championships. He also was the youngest driver ever to win a Super Late Model event at Mountain Speedway, a one-third mile asphalt track in St. John’s, Pa.

He states in his complaint that he believes he was discriminated against because of his complexion. According to his claim, he is of Puerto Rican and Spanish descent and identifies himself as Puerto Rican. He states in his claim that he is blue-eyed and fair-skinned.

According to NASCAR’s brief in support of summary judgment, Rodriguez based his claim on two references by an Access employee that he looks like “the poster child” or “the poster boy” for the Ku Klux Klan.

According to the NASCAR brief, the first reference came when his father said he overheard a conversation between program officials during the 2005 diversity program combine. Rodriguez, who was 15 at the time, attended the 2005 combine but was later denied the chance to drive.

Access and NASCAR claim in their briefs that Rodriguez wasn’t medically cleared after he appeared disoriented, possibly from bumping his head prior to his turn to drive the program’s racecar. In his complaint, Rodriguez states that he was cleared medically but was denied the chance to compete.

The second Klan reference allegedly was made during a discussion of potential diversity drivers for the 2006 combine, according to NASCAR’s summary judgment brief. The “poster child” comment allegedly was made by an Access employee in the presence of three people, or made in a joking manner by an Access employee after the selection committee voted on which drivers to accept into the program. Rodriguez was selected as an alternate.

Another Access official said those statements were not accepted, tolerated or welcome after hearing the comment, NASCAR states in its brief.

NASCAR puts most of the onus on Access as far as the legal liability for choosing diversity drivers, but NASCAR also backed Access attorneys, who stated in their summary judgment brief that “the act of excluding (Rodriguez) from an affirmative action program because he appeared to be Caucasian is consistent with NASCAR's stated goals of recruiting drivers who would change the face of NASCAR and make it look more like America.”

Jeff Pasek, an attorney representing NASCAR in the case, said during the hearing Wednesday that he wouldn’t talk about what was fair, but instead what was legal.

“We would submit to (the court) it would be legitimate for Access to make its decision on affirmative action criteria,” Pasek said.

Access attorney Dhamian Blue followed later, reiterating what Access argued in its summary judgment brief, saying that the color of a driver’s skin can be proper criteria for an affirmative action plan.

“NASCAR recognized their need to change the face of NASCAR,” Blue said. “The ultimate desire was to pan across pit road and see minority drivers and minority crewmen. … When you talk about changing the face of NASCAR, color weighs very heavily.”

The judge asked Pasek if it would be reasonable for a college or university not to admit students as part of an affirmative action program if their skin color weren’t dark enough.

Pasek argued that if the college had only light-skinned applicants, it would be able to deny some of them or else “it would make a mockery of the program” if none of them looked like minorities.

The judge replied that the Rodriguez case deals with virtually all of the applicants for the diversity program having identifiable minority characteristics and that that was a rare occurrence.

Rodriguez attorney Humphrey Cummings called the argument that skin color could be used as a determining factor as “really bizarre.”

“Utilizing their argument, it is an after-the-fact sort of claim, that (their) people got out of hand … and now need to cover it up,” Cummings said. “It just doesn’t wash. It’s like saying, ‘You’re not black enough.’ How black is black enough?”

NASCAR argues in its summary judgment brief, and Pasek reiterated at the hearing, that the selection of drivers for the 2006 combine was done by closed ballot and that there is no proof that Rodriguez was rejected by a majority of the members because of his skin color.

Access and NASCAR attorneys also argued Wednesday that Rodriguez’s civil rights could not be violated as defined by law because Rodriguez never had a contract with NASCAR or Access, that participation in the program was voluntary and that there were other platforms for a minority driver to get noticed by race teams.

The attorneys for NASCAR, Access and Rodriquez declined to comment on the case after the hearing.

NASCAR spokesman David Higdon said that the NASCAR attorneys were making a legal argument that skin color could be used as a criteria for selecting diversity drivers, but said that is not NASCAR's policy and that skin color did not play a role in the Rodriguez decision.

"Absolutely skin color has nothing to do with our decision process," Higdon said. "He, like many others, did not make the cut based on merit and merit only."
http://aol.sportingnews.com...lnk1%26pLid%3D153583
*************

Apparently, some folks think so. No doubt about it, when any business starts playing the "numbers game", someone is gonna get left out and get pissed. Is this a business decision NASCAR has a right to make? Their intent is obviously to draw in more minority fans. But, is that enough to throw out what appears to be discrimination? Is talent the real discriminator or is this guy too white for the program?

I'm not sure in this particular case. It will be interesting to see how this one works out. I'm betting NASCAR will cave and most likely drop the program and let the owners pick their own talent. Which, is the way I think it should be. Life isn't fair, just cause you're white, black, brown, yellow or green (in my case) doesn't mean you should get ahead or be held back because of skin color.
Logged

VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.

Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
texaninsouthfl
Member
*****
Posts: 441


Serving those who served us...

East Lake County, Florida


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 08:17:53 AM »

"Access attorney Dhamian Blue followed later, reiterating what Access argued in its summary judgment brief, saying that the color of a driver’s skin can be proper criteria for an affirmative action plan."

Amazing isn't it? To some, it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against someone based on skin color as long as the skin is white... Discrimination is discrimination regardless of the criteria. The whole notion of "affirmative action" that says that we will end discrimination by continuing to discriminate is illogical.
Logged
Chrisj CMA
Member
*****
Posts: 14935


Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 08:55:42 AM »

"Access attorney Dhamian Blue followed later, reiterating what Access argued in its summary judgment brief, saying that the color of a driver’s skin can be proper criteria for an affirmative action plan."

Amazing isn't it? To some, it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against someone based on skin color as long as the skin is white... Discrimination is discrimination regardless of the criteria. The whole notion of "affirmative action" that says that we will end discrimination by continuing to discriminate is illogical.

exactly right, if the denied driver was of color he would have a claim no problem
Logged
Rams
Member
*****
Posts: 16940


So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 08:59:28 AM »

"Access attorney Dhamian Blue followed later, reiterating what Access argued in its summary judgment brief, saying that the color of a driver’s skin can be proper criteria for an affirmative action plan."

Amazing isn't it? To some, it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against someone based on skin color as long as the skin is white... Discrimination is discrimination regardless of the criteria. The whole notion of "affirmative action" that says that we will end discrimination by continuing to discriminate is illogical.

exactly right, if the denied driver was of color he would have a claim no problem

Wait, so now I'm learning White isn't a color?  Wink  Dang, no wonder I'm invisible to some folks, mostly to the hot ladies but, now I know why.  Cheesy
Logged

VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.

Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
98valk
Member
*****
Posts: 13843


South Jersey


« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2012, 09:57:44 AM »


white-hispanic?
Logged

1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
Fudd
Member
*****
Posts: 1733


MSF RiderCoach

Denham Springs, La.


« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 11:23:37 AM »

If NASCAR is "too white" and needs an affirmative action plan to insure people of color have an "equal chance" (said in quotes), to get jobs.......

Then lets apply the same concept to the NBA and make sure a person of the non-predominate color gets an "equal chance" to pro basketball player jobs.
Logged



Save a horse, ride a Valkyrie
Chrisj CMA
Member
*****
Posts: 14935


Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 11:25:02 AM »

If NASCAR is "too white" and needs an affirmative action plan to insure people of color have an "equal chance" (said in quotes), to get jobs.......

Then lets apply the same concept to the NBA and make sure a person of the non-predominate color gets an "equal chance" to pro basketball player jobs.
lmao  cooldude
Logged
FryeVRCCDS0067
Member
*****
Posts: 4353


Brazil, IN


« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 12:10:01 PM »


Wait, so now I'm learning White isn't a color?  Wink  Dang, no wonder I'm invisible to some folks, mostly to the hot ladies but, now I know why.  Cheesy


A smokin' hot black (brown actually) female I used to work with told me most of us are light pink or tobe, whatever that is, not white.  Grin

As far as "too Caucasian", yeah it can happen. Watch me dance sometime.  Embarrassed
Logged

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.''
-- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964
..
Member
*****
Posts: 27796


Maggie Valley, NC


« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 01:57:11 PM »

If your last name starts with a Z and you live in Sanford, FL you can be too caucasian.
Logged
Paxton
Member
*****
Posts: 2507


So Cal


« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 01:59:11 PM »

Anthropologically speaking... we are either Caucasian, Negroid or Mongoloid.  Roll Eyes
So, if you know your are not Black or Mongoloid then you must be Caucasian, like hispanics. ???

Hispanic is not a race into itself, it is an ethnicitySmiley
Therefore, with the exception of Black, Native American or Asian hispanics, one is Caucasian.  angel

"I am not hispanic, I am not herpanic, I am not any body else's panic!
Logged

J. Paxton Gomez

1966 First year Bronco... 302 CI V8
1975 First year Chrysler Cordoba... 360 CI V8
1978 Honda 750F / Cafe Racer
2000 GL1500CY Fast-Black Standard Solo Rider

So Cal... 91205

"Four wheels move the body; two wheels move the soul."
..
Member
*****
Posts: 27796


Maggie Valley, NC


« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 02:00:05 PM »

Anthropologically speaking... we are either Caucasian, Negroid or Mongoloid.  Roll Eyes
So, if you know your are not Black or Mongoloid then you must be Caucasian, like hispanics. ???

Hispanic is not a race into itself, it is an ethnicitySmiley
Therefore, with the exception of Black, Native American or Asian hispanics, one is Caucasian.  angel

"I am not hispanic, I am not herpanic, I am not any body else's panic!

 cooldude
Logged
Willow
Administrator
Member
*****
Posts: 16863


Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP

Olathe, KS


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 03:05:32 PM »

Anthropologically speaking... we are either Caucasian, Negroid or Mongoloid.  Roll Eyes
So, if you know your are not Black or Mongoloid then you must be Caucasian, like hispanics. ???

Hispanic is not a race into itself, it is an ethnicitySmiley
Therefore, with the exception of Black, Native American or Asian hispanics, one is Caucasian.  angel

Interesting (and entirely incorrect) perspective.  Everyone who is not Black, Indian, or Asian hispanic (What is Asian hispanic?) is by default Caucasian?

Not so many years ago it would be claimed (socially, not anthropologically) that anyone having the smallest portion of Negroid blood was, in fact, Negroid, while one could only be Caucasian if all of one's forebears where Caucasian.  Now we have one claiming that anyone who is not Black, Indian, or Asian hispanic (What is Asian hispanic?) is part of the Caucasian (apparently his new catch-all race or is it ethnicity?) race.

Honestly, anthropologically speaking, there is a very large portion of the American population that is racially and ethnically mixed. I guess what that means is that terms such as too Caucasian, not black enough, or apparently Mongoloid have some meaning in our current culture.  Add to that that most of us roll seamlessly between racial and ethnic categorization and all those references start to get blurry.

I'm a mix myself, speaking both anthropologically and socially.  Sometimes I'm a little too Caucasian and sometimes I'm not Caucasian enough.   
Logged
Jess from VA
Member
*****
Posts: 31196


No VA


« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 03:20:28 PM »

Well, being mostly from Irish-Scots heritage, I am truly too Caucasian with almost no pigment.... I get bad sunburn and skin cancer (with divots where removed) from sun exposure. 

The best I ever did was pass for German.... when in Turkey.   Grin
Logged
BF
Member
*****
Posts: 9932


Fort Walton Beach, Florida I'm a simple man, I like pretty, dark haired woman and breakfast food.


« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 03:57:56 PM »

Well, being mostly from Irish-Scots heritage, I am truly too Caucasian with almost no pigment.... I get bad sunburn and skin cancer (with divots where removed) from sun exposure. 

The best I ever did was pass for German.... when in Turkey.   Grin

Ditto.   cooldude

I'm sorta pasty pinkish myself. 

PASTY PINKISH POWER.   cooldude
Logged

I can't help about the shape I'm in
I can't sing, I ain't pretty and my legs are thin
But don't ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to
 

98valk
Member
*****
Posts: 13843


South Jersey


« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 04:28:04 PM »

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/essays/june97/rodriguez_6-18.html

It was Richard Nixon's administration that came up with the notion of the Hispanic. In 1973, federal bureaucrats divided the nation's population into five: Native American/Eskimo; Asian/Pacific Islander; White; Black; Hispanic. Nearly 25 years later we see and use the word "Hispanic" routinely. I say I am Hispanic. I tell you I am standing on a rundown corner of downtown Los Angeles, the largest Hispanic city in the United States, and look, look at the Hispanic faces. But what do you look for when you expect to see a Hispanic face? In fact, there is no such thing as a Hispanic race.

Every race of the world exists in Latin America. There are Japanese Hispanics. There are African Hispanics. There are blond Hispanics. If many of us are brown, the majority of Hispanics are from Mexico and are, therefore, Mestizo, many us are not.

To put the matter bluntly, there are many Hispanics who are Black. Hispanic is an ethnic, a cultural category, not a racial one. Remember that the next time you hear Hispanics compared to Whites or to Blacks. What you are actually hearing is one group of Americans identified by culture being compared to another Americans identified by race. Here is the most revolutionary aspect of Hispanicity.

Logged

1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
Challenger
Member
*****
Posts: 1344


« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2012, 04:45:47 PM »

I'm just wondering here, but if the young man could drive well, why does he need a diversity program in the first place?
Logged
Paxton
Member
*****
Posts: 2507


So Cal


« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2012, 05:51:10 PM »

QUOTE: "... Everyone who is not Black, Indian, or Asian hispanic (What is Asian hispanic?) is by default Caucasian?..."

====================================================

Like Blacks, many Asian (OK, Mongoloid) were brought to the "new world" as slaves primarily to Latin America.  ???
Later, these hispanic-mongoloids were imported from the Caribbean Islands. They were the majority of workers building the Panama Canal.  Undecided

For example, my friend's Hispanic-Mongoloid family has been in Cuba since the 1800's. Cheesy
He does not speak any other language but his native one, Spanish.  laugh

Another "Mongoloid-Hispanic"  is my Panama-born  friend who's family has been there since the early 19th century. He knows how to say "hello" and "thank you" in Cantonese.... a few other words too. 2funny
His native language and culture is Hispanic... He's fluent in Spanish and English too.  Smiley

It appears they were good workers, they work their assess off building the intercontinental rail road.
Arguably, the mongoloids building the railroad were not hispanic, so now they are referenced as "Asian Americans?"

"I am right. I’m always right.
One time I thought I was wrong, I found out I was right. "
— Jerry Lee Lewis[/center
][/i]


[/size][/font]
Logged

J. Paxton Gomez

1966 First year Bronco... 302 CI V8
1975 First year Chrysler Cordoba... 360 CI V8
1978 Honda 750F / Cafe Racer
2000 GL1500CY Fast-Black Standard Solo Rider

So Cal... 91205

"Four wheels move the body; two wheels move the soul."
RP#62
Member
*****
Posts: 4163


Gilbert, AZ


WWW
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 06:26:22 PM »

We are all from Africa, it just depends on how far you want to go back.  That's what our genes tell us anyway.
-RP
Logged

 
FryeVRCCDS0067
Member
*****
Posts: 4353


Brazil, IN


« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 06:54:24 PM »

I always thought the race thing was kinda funny. I've got Blackfoot in me from several generations back, I only know about it from word of mouth. But, it's enough that I seldom sunburn, and never more than once a year, if at all. I generally don't need sunblock although I use it sometimes in the hope it will help with the windburn from long days on the scooter.

When I was young, I swam constantly and got very dark in the summer. Occasionally during the summer someone would question me concerning my race. I always told them whatever I thought they didn't want to hear and I never ceased to be amused by their reactions when I did so.  Grin

People that know me personally know that I'm a dog guy. The thing about dogs is that they come in all colors, black, brown, red, white, you get the picture. And the thing about dogs is that they are still just dogs, no matter what color they are. Most are good, some aren't, but brown dogs aren't different than black dogs, and neither is different than spotted or white dogs. People are the same, we're born in lots of shapes and colors but we're just people just as dogs are just dogs.

I wanted to be a musician when I was a kid. Really wanted to. I owned several guitars, played constantly, built up the calluses and could play what I was taught, but not well. And, I couldn't learn anything on my own. I couldn't play by ear. I couldn't just figure out a song. I somehow, just didn't get it.

That's kinda how the race thing is for me too, somehow I just don't get it.

I won't deny I've been uncomfortable a time or two, such as pulling off the interstate for a break and winding up at a mini-mart in the hood. Or walking into a cowboy bar in New Mexico wearing a black felt hat and sporting a long ponytail in the 70's asking for directions. But that's a different deal I think.
Logged

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.''
-- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964
musclehead
Member
*****
Posts: 7245


inverness fl


« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 08:03:53 PM »

I thought I heard genetically speaking we are about 8 generations from the darkest of dark skin colors to the whitest white (ok pink)

I have some Amerind blood in me from my gandmas side. you can see it real strong in my uncle.
Logged

'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
hotglue #43
Member
*****
Posts: 3151

Ya never know how many good Summers ya have left.


« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 09:53:59 PM »

Yep.... I'm Way to caucasian.....and I can't dance either...LOL
Dirt Nasty feat. LMFAO - I Can't Dancepowered by Aeva
Logged



 blue=3 times
 green=at least 4 times
When they are all 'green'.. I'll stop counting.
Thespian
Member
*****
Posts: 552


Bonny lake Washington


« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 10:32:51 PM »

  So is this race baiting?  Roll Eyes works both ways, me thinks.  coolsmiley
Logged

Smooth is where it's at. (o_0)
FryeVRCCDS0067
Member
*****
Posts: 4353


Brazil, IN


« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 11:01:59 PM »

Yep.... I'm Way to caucasian.....and I can't dance either...LOL
Dirt Nasty feat. LMFAO - I Can't Dance

  Grin Grin Grin

Ha! It's 2AM, I'm laughing out loud, and the dog thinks I've lost my mind. That video is a riot.
Logged

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
And... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.''
-- Barry Goldwater, Acceptance Speech at the Republican Convention; 1964
Paxton
Member
*****
Posts: 2507


So Cal


« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2012, 05:34:03 AM »

It is said that white folks have no rhythm. So, God felt sorry for them and he gave them jobs!  tickedoff 2funny
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 06:42:59 AM by Paxton » Logged

J. Paxton Gomez

1966 First year Bronco... 302 CI V8
1975 First year Chrysler Cordoba... 360 CI V8
1978 Honda 750F / Cafe Racer
2000 GL1500CY Fast-Black Standard Solo Rider

So Cal... 91205

"Four wheels move the body; two wheels move the soul."
Romeo
Member
*****
Posts: 1612


J.A.B.O.A.

Romeo, Michigan


« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2012, 05:47:13 AM »

Uuuggggghhhh, The sins of the father................. When we ever learn????
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: