Republicans manufacture a crisis for the Postal Service, and too many Democrats

[biguglyman]

Republicans manufacture a crisis for the Postal Service, and too many Democrats go along

Without getting any knickers in a twist over the source, this is a very well written description of what ails the U.S.P.S.  As a person with an inside view of how the Postal Service works I can attest to the veracity of what's written here.  The P.O. would be in OK shape without congressional meddling.

[dipstick]

Im pretty sure the union would drive the post office into the hole with or without congress. Just how long do you think any buisness out there can pay people to NOT work. The union pensions killed GM and Chrysler, and the PO does not have ANY competition to do what it does. And it still loses money every year. It should be tossed into the private sector and allowed to sink or swim and they should have let GM do the same. The american people should not have to have there tax dollars supporting the mail delivery system so the people who work for it can have a cushy retirement.

[The Anvil]

Im pretty sure the union would drive the post office into the hole with or without congress.

Well, as the article says they turned a profit in 2006...

Just how long do you think any buisness out there can pay people to NOT work. The union pensions killed GM and Chrysler,

Did you actually read the article?

and the PO does not have ANY competition to do what it does.

Really? What do you call UPS, FedEx, fax machines, email...

And it still loses money every year.

Again, did you READ the article?

It should be tossed into the private sector and allowed to sink or swim and they should have let GM do the same.

That would have been a terrific idea. http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/16/news/companies/gm_earnings/index.htm?iid=EL

Full disclosure; I believed that GM should have been allowed to die. I was wrong.

While the unions certainly helped damage both GM and Chrysler rumors of both companies demise has been greatly exaggerated. http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/news/companies/auto_industry_profits/index.htm?iid=EL

It's nice to see you have so much faith in one of the industries that made America great in the first place. Maybe you'd like to close Apple's doors while you're at it. 

The american people should not have to have there tax dollars supporting the mail delivery system so the people who work for it can have a cushy retirement.

Nevermind. You didn't actually read the article.

[biguglyman]

Anvil on my side?  Don't know whether to cheer or cry...lol.  Thanks for jumping in so I didn't have to.  The  Postal Service is the best, most efficient in the world despite it's faults.  How long do you think universal service for ALL Americans would last if it's "tossed into the private sector and allowed to sink or swim"?  We don't get a "cushy" retirement.  Over the years the civil service retirement system was phased out and a much less "cushy" system put in that depends on social security to pay a large percentage of the retirement dollar.  I hope that lasts until I retire too. 

[Karen]

Why do I get the sinking feeling that the Post Office retirement funds will somehow go the way of the Social Security funds, appropriated by Congress for other things?

[The Anvil]

Anvil on my side?  Don't know whether to cheer or cry...lol.  Thanks for jumping in so I didn't have to.  The  Postal Service is the best, most efficient in the world despite it's faults.  How long do you think universal service for ALL Americans would last if it's "tossed into the private sector and allowed to sink or swim"?  We don't get a "cushy" retirement.  Over the years the civil service retirement system was phased out and a much less "cushy" system put in that depends on social security to pay a large percentage of the retirement dollar.  I hope that lasts until I retire too. 

I have never in my life had a letter or package fail to arrive at it's destination when entrusted to the USPS. Did it get there quickly? No, not always. But it got there and always in one piece. For the volume they handle the USPS is REMARKABLY efficient and reliable.

It's cheap and easy to beat up on every government institution (and I know that the USPS is semi-privatized) but there are government run/regulated agencies that though they may not be perfect, get it pretty much right. The FAA, ATC and USPS are a few of them.

If the USPS has a problem it's that they're not allowed to charge enough money for a 1st class stamp.

And GOD FORBID someone actually get a secure retirement for a lifetime's worth of service. Oh the horror of it all.  

[designer]

hahahaha..... secured retirement, that's a laugh. No math can explain that. 

[alph]

i tried watching that video, once again, one party blaming the other.

from what i hear about the post office (my brother works there) is that it's a bunch of management idiots that don't know how to manage an orginization. 

now, if i had a chance to work for 'em, i would.  excellent benifits, paid sick time, heck of a retirement plan, free stamps......  what more could you ask for.

[musclehead]

been there done that I quit in 2006, see one man CAN make a difference 

I don't want my mail being mishandled by $10.00 an hour buffons that should be out hold an idiot stick for a paving company.

as far as a "lifetime" of service Anvil,  it's 30 years by age 55 many, many ,many in the private sector will have to work much much much more then that.

they lost my january power payment in 2003 and it never did show up again, it happens from time to time..

yeah I read the article.

[Romeo]

Both my daughter and son-in-law took positions as engineers with the Postal Service directly out of college.In fact , that is where they met. They were both apalled at what the found upon receving there assignments. A multimlayered management structure, way too cumbersome and self serving. Obsolete machinery, when they broughtnin new automation to streamline operations and make thing more efficient, management was not allowed to cut workforce that the automation replaced. They just came to work as aways and "monitored" the machinery that had replaced them. My duaghter used to say she felt you needed to kill someone to get fired. We taught her hard work was the way to get ahead, she found out that wasn't the case at the USPS. With all that, they were doing ok until the recession knocked the bottom out of advertising mailings. According to my son in law, who was involved inaying attention to that kinda stuff, that's where their revenue has really suffered. Not the first class stuff. Both of them have since moved on, and are happier for it.

[biguglyman]

Why do I get the sinking feeling that the Post Office retirement funds will somehow go the way of the Social Security funds, appropriated by Congress for other things?

Exactly what's already happening.

excellent benifits, paid sick time, heck of a retirement plan, free stamps

The benefits are pretty good and yes, I get paid sick time.  Retirement plan for non civil service people (people hired after about 1986) is adequate and depends on a 401k type plan and social security.  No free stamps...sorry.

it's a bunch of management idiots that don't know how to manage an orginization

Yup.  Very top heavy organization and mis-managed.  So how come none of these great plans include cuts there?

Romeo, all I can say is that your family got a look at the dark side of the operations.  Through attrition and re-assignment the PO HAS cut their workforce by several hundred thousand.  A high percentage of postal employees (me included) are veterans and work hard at our jobs.  Believe me there's much more to do than "monitor" that fancy automation equipment that never lives up to the billing it's given by the manufacturers.  People get fired from the PO all the time although I will admit it's not easy.

The USPS moves more mail in two weeks than the next 5 countries combined do in a year at a remarkably cheap rate.  Especially considering most of those other countries aren't much bigger than one or two of our states.  We don't need or want a bail-out.  Just get the politicians off our backs so we can right the ship ourselves and get on with providing the worlds best postal service to the worlds best customers.  You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

[ptgb]

Since when has it become a sin in this country to earn a livable wage, work 70% of your waking time, work 2/3 of your entire adult life, and then expect to at least get a portion (most times 50% or so) to live on when you become a senior citizen?!?!?!

This mentality to be in a race to the bottom absolutely sickens me. I find it so sad that instead of fighting for what's right for the middle class, the people who are in it bitch and complain when somebody gets a penny more than them. Or, better yet, vilifies others who stand up against slave wages, 60 hour plus work weeks, and dispose-ability of the American working class.  

I got news for you, once the politicians and the Wall Street crowd are done with "us", we will be a third world country right along with the folks in China, Mexico, and any other country who now builds the things we used to build and the provide the services we used to provide.

The guys you vote for (be it Republican or Democrat) don't have your best interest at heart! The "job-creators" (the new politically correct term for millionaires and billionaires) definitely don't have your best interest at heart! They never have, they are only worry about lining their pockets. So where does that leave you and me? Instead of standing up and telling them we aren't gonna take it anymore we first roll over and watch it happen; then complain when someone else won't do the same.

It's truly sad.

Just so you know where I come from and where I get my mentality:

I have worked in the public sector pretty much my entire adult working life. I make a squarely middle class wage (not even close to what you think I make). I bust my ass daily, work side-jobs weekly (year round) to pay for my toys and trips, contribute 12% of my wage toward my 60% pension, and work when I am sick or injured as to not cause others to have to. Most I personally know in the public sector do the same...

And what did I get in return? Our illustrious, former Lehman Brothers executive (remember those guys who actively bankrupted us but got their $$$), multi-millionaire Governor tried to take away 1/3 of my family's livelihood!!! 

I'm not saying that many aren't worse off, but did you really expect me to just roll-over and take it?!? I didn't, that's for sure... and neither should anyone else!

[john]

'' $10.00 an hour buffons that should be out hold an idiot stick for a paving company. ''                              
  my ass

[Bob E.]

Since when has it become a sin in this country to earn a livable wage, work 70% of your waking time, work 2/3 of your entire adult life, and then expect to at least get a portion (most times 50% or so) to live on when you become a senior citizen?!?!?!

This mentality to be in a race to the bottom absolutely sickens me. I find it so sad that instead of fighting for what's right for the middle class, the people who are in it bitch and complain when somebody gets a penny more than them. Or, better yet, vilifies others who stand up against slave wages, 60 hour plus work weeks, and dispose-ability of the American working class.  

I got news for you, once the politicians and the Wall Street crowd are done with "us", we will be a third world country right along with the folks in China, Mexico, and any other country who now builds the things we used to build and the provide the services we used to provide.

The guys you vote for (be it Republican or Democrat) don't have your best interest at heart! The "job-creators" (the new politically correct term for millionaires and billionaires) definitely don't have your best interest at heart! They never have, they are only worry about lining their pockets. So where does that leave you and me? Instead of standing up and telling them we aren't gonna take it anymore we first roll over and watch it happen; then complain when someone else won't do the same.

It's truly sad.

Just so you know where I come from and where I get my mentality:

I have worked in the public sector pretty much my entire adult working life. I make a squarely middle class wage (not even close to what you think I make). I bust my ass daily, work side-jobs weekly (year round) to pay for my toys and trips, contribute 12% of my wage toward my 60% pension, and work when I am sick or injured as to not cause others to have to. Most I personally know in the public sector do the same...

And what did I get in return? Our illustrious, former Lehman Brothers executive (remember those guys who actively bankrupted us but got their $$$), multi-millionaire Governor tried to take away 1/3 of my family's livelihood!!! 

I'm not saying that many aren't worse off, but did you really expect me to just roll-over and take it?!? I didn't, that's for sure... and neither should anyone else!

Well said! 

[Chattanooga Mark]

No government employee should get a pension, period. They all, city, county, state and federal, at ALL levels should simply have an opportunity to invest in a 401(k) like the rest of us. These pension plans are bankrupting all levels of government in every state all over America. I don't care if you're the city or county clerk, the librarian, in the military, a cop, in Congress or a letter carrier. No pension should be offered. The ones with employees under 10 years of employment should immediately stop being funded. Those emplyees can join their 401(k) neighbors. The employees with over 10 years in, can continue without the rediculous automatic COLA clauses enforced.

Lifetime pensions for low and semi skilled workers is simply insane. What a rediculous Ponzi scheme. Get rid of them all.

I'm in the middle class. I simply cannot afford the rediculous property tax and business tax increases to fund pension plans for my very neighbors that work at these government jobs. I have to reduce my own 401(k) so I can afford to fund my neighbors pension plan. That's crazy! Give them the same opportunity to fund their 401(k) as I have to fund mine. And don't give me that junk about them not making the same money as their non government contemporaries. For all but the military, that hasn't been true for years.

Wake up people, we're spending the money your children, grand children, nieces and nephews as well as their off spring haven't even earned yet.

Mark

[big d]

congrats to you anvil for always getting your mail. recently i did not recveive two items that were acknowledged to have been in the office at 8:30 in the morning and was said to have been delivered by 10 am. and guess what,  shock i say,   i didnt receive them... the person delivering my mail cant even close the damn door on the mail box on a regular basis. tell me, how difficult is it to close the door...... by the way, per the post master i should have paid extra for insurance to guaranty that i would get the items. you mean i have to pay extra for you to do your job correctly. that is the mentality  that is destroying this country...........

[The Anvil]

No government employee should get a pension, period. They all, city, county, state and federal, at ALL levels should simply have an opportunity to invest in a 401(k) like the rest of us.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. "I don't get one so screw them". Would you have the same problem with private companies that still offer pensions?

I don't see a problem with pensions if the employee puts their time in, no matter whether it public or private.

[solo1]

And GOD FORBID someone actually get a secure retirement for a lifetime's worth of service. Oh the horror of it all.  Roll Eyes  (Quote)

Secure retirement , my arse!!!!!!!.  There is no such thing in the private sector....... well maybe in the government service.

[The Anvil]

Secure retirement , my arse!!!!!!!.  There is no such thing in the private sector....... well maybe in the government service.

I KNOW! But how does that make government employees bad people for getting what we ALL should get?

[Chattanooga Mark]

Anvil, you missed the point completely, likely on purpose. Didn't Ted Nugent say something today you'd like to post and complain about?

Mark

[The Anvil]

Anvil, you missed the point completely, likely on purpose. Didn't Ted Nugent say something today you'd like to post and complain about?

Mark

Well why don't you clarify it because I read it again and all I really get from your post is that you're envious of public employees.

Do you REALLY think public employee pensions are the problem??? Of all of the government spending to complain about.

[Chattanooga Mark]

Pensions are a part of the problem and were the subject of much of this thread. Pensions for private sector companies are fine as long as that private sector company wants to offer them. Most often what happens is what happened to  General Motors. They turned into a health care provider and a pension plan payer that also made cars and trucks.

Mark

[The Anvil]

Pensions are a part of the problem and were the subject of much of this thread. Pensions for private sector companies are fine as long as that private sector company wants to offer them. Most often what happens is what happened to  General Motors. They turned into a health care provider and a pension plan payer that also made cars and trucks.

Mark

Over a long enough period of employment a pension pays for itself through stability. If you want to argue that they get too much too soon then we can have that discussion (no retired public employee I know is living the good life on a pension) but the government has to compete with the private sector as well. There's no reason why they can't offer a decent pension.

The problem in the private sector has never been the pension itself, but the lack of funding them, raping them or investing the money unwisely (essentially raping them).

[musclehead]

'' $10.00 an hour buffons that should be out hold an idiot stick for a paving company. ''                              
  my ass

in my state they look like the people of walmart

[biguglyman]

Pensions are a part of the problem and were the subject of much of this thread.

The reason I started this thread was to try to educate people on what was really going on with the USPS and expose the misconceptions created to make a crisis.  Pensions are not what's killing the USPS.    The feds skimming 5.5 billion a year off the top is.  I have no problem with the discussion going the way it has.  Just wanted to clear that up.    

[Chattanooga Mark]

Pensions offer stability...it's likely illegal to posess what you're smoking to come up with that line.

Anytime an entity, say the USPS or the Chicago PD, has as many or more retired people collecting a pension scheme as they have currently on the job, that entity is about to fold. Some entities have almost twice as many retired pensioners as they have full time people still actually on the job. 

Why not just get rid of the pension/ponzi scheme and allow these people to contribute to their own 401(k) type retirement like everyone else? Can't you understand the current system is simply unsustainable? Have you seen what's happening in Spain, Italy, Portugal, France etc. etc. etc.

We're borrowing $0.40 of every $1.00 we spend. How long do you think your household could do that until it collapses?


Mark

[ptgb]

Anytime an entity, say the USPS or the Chicago PD, has as many or more retired people collecting a pension scheme as they have currently on the job, that entity is about to fold. Some entities have almost twice as many retired pensioners as they have full time people still actually on the job.  

Why not just get rid of the pension/ponzi scheme and allow these people to contribute to their own 401(k) type retirement like everyone else?

I don't understand where your line of thinking comes from. Do you think current workers put money in a big pot from which the pensioners payments come, dollar for dollar?

I contribute 12% of my wage to my State pension system, my employer contributes a like amount. Before you vapor lock at the percentages, understand that I do not contribute to Social Security and WILL NOT get it when I turn 62/65/67. So the percentage amounts contributed for/by me equal the percentages I would pay for Social Security (6%) and a 401K (about 6% average). All employers contribute to Social Security and most match 401K contributions, so it is relatively comparable.

My contributions to the State Pension System get invested, along with the hundreds of millions of dollars from the other workers. The returns on those investments is what builds the pension fund. During good times, the pension fund makes money hand over fist. During lean times, not so much, but they still make return on their investments.

Because Ohio has statewide systems, they can absorb the highs and lows much better than a local pension fund can. Ohio pension systems, by law, are required to have assets to allow solvency for 30 years. In other words if all contributions stopped tomorrow, the fund can still continue to pay for 30 years. Right now my system (there are 5 different funds in Ohio) meets that requirement easily, even after the economic downturn. It's when the politicians, CEOs, boards of directors, and the Wall Street clowns get their hands in it is when it all goes to hell.

So what's the problem? How is this a scheme?

I will not apologize for walking out the door after 30 years of busting my ass to draw a 30K/year pension. You think that amount will allow me to buy a beach house and sip umbrella drinks? I don't think so. I will have another 20 +/- years (hopefully) of some type of work ahead of me just to stay at the same level I'm at now.

Pretty sweet deal huh?

[MP]

ptgb:

Sounds like you have a good, well thought out plan.  That is good.  However, there are MANY govt pensions that are woefully underfunded, and have committments that FAR exceed their ability to ever meet their obligations.  I believe ones like that are the ones most are referring to.

The difference between private pensions and govt pensions, is that private ones do not have the ability to vote on it themselves.  Govt ones have the ones receiving the pensions voting on the people giving them the pensions.

So, in essence, the potiticians can use the tax money to bribe the govt workers to vote for them, by promising them pensions that cannot ever be funded in full.

MP

[Chattanooga Mark]

Illinois has probably the worst under/not funded pension system in the country. We have 100's upon 100's of school administrators, city and county workers collecting multiple pensions at well over $150,000 a year, for each pension. Our property and business taxes have doubled while our home values have been greatly reduced. It is an unsustainable scheme that has bankrupted our state. Very similar to California and many, many other states. It's also very similar to what GM went through. They simply could not afford to pay the health and pension plans of non working former employees. Now the entire country and your children, grand children and great grandchildren will pay those workers.

Like I said earlier, I cannot continue to reduce my own 401(k) plan to pay the increasing taxes called for because the state has obligations to pensioned former workers. I simply cannot afford to fund my fellow citizens pension at the cost of my own.

One of my neighbors is a county sheriff and his pension plan is one of very, very few in our state that has always been funded. But they still lost millions upon millions of dollars from that fund along with many of their benefits.

Mark

[Master Blaster]

Yep those overpaid over pentioned greedy govt workers really tick me off.   My Bride of 53 years was a Govt Employee, Dept of the Army Civilian, for 35 years, retired with 2K a month, no Social Security, no health benefits, Its a damm shame she is ripping off all you that hate pensions for hard working dedicated folks.  Me too, retired CW3 after 23 years, disabled Vet, went on to work 20 more years with civilian company that essentailly had no retirement system for most of it, and was on a salry system that paid about 1/3 what it was worth.  Made lots of money, but it was due to a ton of workover, fortunately I loved what I was doing, flying.  last few years they did insttute a 401K, but it was too little too late, and lost about half of that in the crash, I rolled it over into an IRA and it has gaine back to about where it was before.  but back to the point, my main income is from Govt. also, so you could say we are double dippers.  Shame on us.  Oh and bucks military retirement, when I started out I made 87 bucks a month, 4 hots and a cot.  Served for years with substandard pay, went to war, and dared to retire with a litttle over 50%.  Again I am so sorry.

[G-Man]

i tried watching that video, once again, one party blaming the other.

from what i hear about the post office (my brother works there) is that it's a bunch of management idiots that don't know how to manage an orginization. 

now, if i had a chance to work for 'em, i would.  excellent benifits, paid sick time, heck of a retirement plan, free stamps......  what more could you ask for.

My brother, a PO employee says the exact same thing.  Management that have no managerial experience (other than from within) and it's just simply not run like a business. 

[G-Man]

So where does that leave you and me?

If the millionaires and billionaires aren't the job creators, then who does create jobs?

Where does that leave you, or us.  It leaves us in a country where everyone has the ability to not be dependent on another entity for their survival.  There is no law that says you must participate in one of the many different forms of getting through life.  One could save up all their money that they would have spent on toys and trips and put that into a business of their own that could very well flourish and turn YOU into a job creator.  Choices.  Everyone says they have none, or few.  Bullshit. 

[G-Man]

congrats to you anvil for always getting your mail. recently i did not recveive two items that were acknowledged to have been in the office at 8:30 in the morning and was said to have been delivered by 10 am. and guess what,  shock i say,   i didnt receive them... the person delivering my mail cant even close the damn door on the mail box on a regular basis. tell me, how difficult is it to close the door...... by the way, per the post master i should have paid extra for insurance to guaranty that i would get the items. you mean i have to pay extra for you to do your job correctly. that is the mentality  that is destroying this country...........

No, that's not mentality, THAT'S extortion!  Like paying the mob protection money so they, themselves, won't rob you!   

[musclehead]

Anvil, you missed the point completely, likely on purpose. Didn't Ted Nugent say something today you'd like to post and complain about?

Mark

Well why don't you clarify it because I read it again and all I really get from your post is that you're envious of public employees.

Do you REALLY think public employee pensions are the problem??? Of all of the government spending to complain about.

500 million in unfunded pension funds in Cali and your gonna say IT'S not a problem.
it becomes our problem when we have to bail them out.

[G-Man]

Pensions offer stability...it's likely illegal to posess what you're smoking to come up with that line.

Anytime an entity, say the USPS or the Chicago PD, has as many or more retired people collecting a pension scheme as they have currently on the job, that entity is about to fold. Some entities have almost twice as many retired pensioners as they have full time people still actually on the job. 

Why not just get rid of the pension/ponzi scheme and allow these people to contribute to their own 401(k) type retirement like everyone else? Can't you understand the current system is simply unsustainable? Have you seen what's happening in Spain, Italy, Portugal, France etc. etc. etc.

We're borrowing $0.40 of every $1.00 we spend. How long do you think your household could do that until it collapses?


Mark

But Mark, my daughter learned in class that deficit spending is OK.  Nothing wrong with it.  The only thing her teacher forgot to mention is that it hasn't worked.  The libs don't consider deficits and debt as these don't make them feel good.  Yelling that everyone deserves (fill in the blank)....makes them feel good.

I gave the kid this example of what deficit spending is:

You own a business that is not doing well.  To save the business, you borrow money to advertise a little more.  Through this increased advertising, the business does better, the loan is paid off, and you are now making a profit.  This is not what the gov't has been doing.  The gov't borrows to make up a deficit that never gets closed, so it has to borrow again the following year.  But the following year, things are more expensive and they added additional debt to close other deficits and they chase their tail year after year until we are 17 trillion in debt, with no way out of it.  And a huge nut to deal with to just service the loan and not even pay anything down.

But again, Dems and libs don't think of or consider the debt.  Bob Bickle (I thinks that's the spelling), a liberal pundant was asked about the rising cost of the debt and he asked back "When you woke up this morning, did the debt affect you?"   

[G-Man]

Pretty sweet deal huh?

But this was your choice!  You shouldn't be mocking the deal you CHOSE to accept.  You CHOSE to work for someone else for 30 years and then have to work some more to get by.  Choices.

What if you CHOSE to go to medical school?  Then you might not have had a 50 year plan in front of you (that you CHOSE).

What, you didn't have a CHOICE, or you CHOSE to have kids, or you CHOSE not to got to school, etc. 

Choices.  You make'm, you live with 'em!  But to bitch about how little you'll be walking away with after all is said and done, due to the CHOICES you made, sounds silly to me.

[G-Man]

The ousted County Executive here in Westchester, NY, Spano is his name, divulged as he was leaving office (I guess it was a secret until then), that 75% of the county's budget goes to pay county employees, past and present.

There are presently 3 generations of government employees.  All three generations get healthcare benefits and 2 receive pensions. 

[tank_post142]

unbelievable !  i voted for Reagan and every republican since then. but some of you right wing nut jobs and religious crackpots have convinced me NOT to do it again. thanks for destroying a great party.

[ptgb]

Pretty sweet deal huh?

Choices.  You make'm, you live with 'em!  But to bitch about how little you'll be walking away with after all is said and done, due to the CHOICES you made, sounds silly to me.

Yep.... knew the deal going into it, the statement "pretty sweet deal huh?" (darn that lack of sarcasm font) was meant to mean that contrary to what is popularly believed, most all public employees aren't walking away at 50 with a 80K/year pension.

Somehow most everyone thinks that when the guy that mops the courthouse floor retires it is comparable to hitting the lottery or something.

[Bob E.]

Pretty sweet deal huh?

Choices.  You make'm, you live with 'em!  But to bitch about how little you'll be walking away with after all is said and done, due to the CHOICES you made, sounds silly to me.

Yep.... knew the deal going into it, the statement "pretty sweet deal huh?" (darn that lack of sarcasm font) was meant to mean that contrary to what is popularly believed, most all public employees aren't walking away at 50 with a 80K/year pension.

Somehow most everyone thinks that when the guy that mops the courthouse floor retires it is comparable to hitting the lottery or something.

What sucks is when you make your CHOICE (G-Man likes caps...lol!) based on some criteria going in, then they change the game halfway in after you've already committed over half your life to your CHOICE, and then gut your pension fund and make you take concessions because they can "no longer afford it".