Holder and the DOJ

[Patrick]

These morons have just filed against a small Florida town claiming the fire department is not hiring enough black employees..

[gregc]

Yea and they did nothing about the black panthers in , and outside the polling place in Philly.

[..]

These morons have just filed against a small Florida town claiming the fire department is not hiring enough black employees..

Nope.

Jacksonville isn't small.

The Justice Department today filed a lawsuit against the city of Jacksonville, Fla., alleging that the city is engaged in a pattern or practice of employment discrimination against African-Americans in its fire and rescue department in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  The lawsuit challenges the fire department’s use of written examinations for the promotion of firefighters to four ranks – Lieutenant, Captain, and District Chief, all in the suppression line, and Engineer.
 
 
 
“This complaint should send a clear message to all public employers that employment practices that have the effect of excluding qualified candidates on account of race will not be tolerated,” said Thomas Perez, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division. “At best, these tests measure only a slice of what is necessary to be a supervisor, but they stand in the way of qualified African-Americans advancing in the fire department.  The Justice Department will take all necessary action to ensure that such discriminatory practices are eliminated and that the victims of such practices are made whole.”
 
 
 
The United States’ complaint alleges that the examinations impact African-American candidates in two ways.  

First, African-American candidates for promotion to the four positions pass the examinations at significantly lower rates than white candidates.  

Second, even those African-Americans who pass the examinations are rarely promoted because the fire department selects candidates for promotion in descending rank-order based primarily upon each candidate’s written examination score and African-American candidates score significantly lower than whites.

[mrprez]

So, they should rewrite the tests so that there are more managerial type questions.  I'll bet the outcome would be the same.

[Patrick]

Ah, OK, Jacksonville certainly isn't small.. I'm glad you posted that article..

[John Schmidt]

First, African-American candidates for promotion to the four positions pass the examinations at significantly lower rates than white candidates. 

Second, even those African-Americans who pass the examinations are rarely promoted because the fire department selects candidates for promotion in descending rank-order based primarily upon each candidate’s written examination score and African-American candidates score significantly lower than whites
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hmmm....looks like they might have a lot of presidential candidates then. They'd probably get a "pass" like Barry did. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the second part. I've seen it untold dozens of times in corporate America; take your work serious and study, it will pay off. If you don't, then you continue to tread water.

As for ability, they need to stop making excuses and get busy hitting the books. My daughter that recently passed can tell you some real horror stories from her nearly 30 yrs. of teaching experience. They lived/taught in a community with a high pecentage of A-A residents and she had numerous A-A student teachers work under her over the years. Her analysis was quite simple; those that hit the books and worked hard on their education did just as good or better than anyone else. Those that wanted the societal privileges but were lazy and didn't want to work for it, she graded them accordingly. She also told me a high percent of the time all she had to do was talk to and question them for five minutes and often could tell the school from which they graduated. Along with that, she told me she could tell if they really earned that degree or just basically got a pass. The principal she worked under for nearly 20 years I knew quite well, he once told me her insight was amazing and was seldom wrong when analyzing student teacher applicants. Strangely enough, her comments echoed my dad's from decades ago, a man of over 50 yrs. teaching experience.

[Paxton]

Patrick;
Another inaccuracy in just one sentence.
They are not talking about hiring, they are addressing PROMOTION issues.

[G-Man]

So, they should rewrite the tests so that there are more managerial type questions.  I'll bet the outcome would be the same.

No, it looks like they want to get rid of written tests because they feel it discriminates against black people.

All of these job based hiring and promotion tests are based on MINIMAL COMPETANCY in the position sought.  As the huge majority of applicants have little to no experience in the positions they seek, the test can only be based on a written manual for the job.  So basically, the applicant is given all the answers to the test.  They just have to study the material.  But nooooooooooooo.  Let's lower our standards for the lazy and unqualified.

[fudgie]

Patrick;
Another inaccuracy in just one sentence.
They are not talking about hiring, they are addressing PROMOTION issues.

Hiring process is about the same as a promotion. You take a written test first. That narrows down the field then you have agility.

[fiddle mike]

Yeah, Affirmative Action hire firefighters, that's who I want in a life-or-death situation.  We've seen how well that's worked out on police forces.

[Jess Tolbirt]

i think its the causaions that are discriminited against,, lets say 50 apply and 10 are black..one gets promoted and he is white,,that means 39 whites and 10 blacks didnt make it,, its the whites that lost out the most,,,

[Patrick]

Affirmative action and Police forces, I can certainly relate to that.. A friend and I took and passed [ me 96%, he 97%] the NYS police exam but were not hired because they accepted 'minorities' that scored 70%.. That lowering of the standards could certainly be seen in how they handled the job.. At least New York finally came to its senses and started requiring a college degree..
I was also involved in New York 'work fare ' program.. They would transport welfare recipients to various business's to work for several hours a couple days a week.. These people could't or wouldn't be taught/shown how to work at even simple tasks as cleaning windows or floors or washing a customers car and would usually walk out within an hour or two.. I wasn't about to put a wrench in their hands with their attitudes.. OH, they still received their checks though..
I am so sick of seeing these people drive up in their Escalades, designer clothes, two cell phones and buy junk food, alcohol with food stamps and return after receiving their new welfare check and buy $100 worth of lottery tickets.. One even brags about refusing to work and collecting $53K a year of welfare bennies..

[G-Man]

i think its the causaions that are discriminited against,, lets say 50 apply and 10 are black..one gets promoted and he is white,,that means 39 whites and 10 blacks didnt make it,, its the whites that lost out the most,,,

That one is way too easy to poke holes through, brother.

Blacks make up 10% of the population.  For argument sake, let's say whites make up the rest.  You'd have to have 5 less blacks apply just to make things even.  In your example, more blacks, per % of the population lost out most.

[G-Man]

I was also involved in New York 'work fare ' program..

I was involved in that as well.  When Guilliani imposed workfare, clinic appointments at the hospital soared.  Everyone wanted notes saying that they couldn't work.  Many Docs refused to write the letters if there was nothing wrong with the patient and were verbally and physically attacked, even spit on.  The hospital had to hire additional security and placed a guard in the hallways of the treatment rooms on every floor and at the nurses station as they received the wrath as well.  Aaaaaand, you bet the hospital billed for all of those bogus, letter seeking visits because of the expenses it took on and the personell time wasted.  That fiasco cost a lot of money because too many folks just don't want to work.