Mt. Rushmore Site Should Be Returned To Indigenous Native American Tribes

[czuch]

My great great grandfather was working on a rail road repair crew in Nebraska when they were set upon by Indians. The Cavalry patrol that found them buried them on the spot was the custom.
The Spanish really didnt do alot if "Integrating". They did alot of slaving, killing and subjecting native types to horrific conditions extracting precious resources.
I'm Irish, can I get a hand out for the degrading unsavory way MY people were treated?
Its stupid to try to attach todays morals and social values on the actions of 150/200 years ago.

[The Anvil]

And the only reason why I bring up the Jews is because I find it curious that so many supporters of Israel get so offended at the idea of giving American Indians a true nation of their own not subject to the laws of the US government. The UN effectively created the country of Israel (yeah I know, Britain donated the land yadda-yadda). So why is it such an outlandish suggestion that American Indians get the same consideration? I mean I don't think that giving them Mt. Rushmore is the answer and with Israel what's done is done but I think the contrast in attitudes is interesting.

Jameson, that's the second time you've erroneously mentioned how the U.N. "effectively created the country of Israel."  I know it was before you or I were born, but you might want to recheck your history books.  The U.N. recognized the state of Israel.  That is a way of saying they admitted the state actually already existed.  The Israelis at that time already controlled the territory that the U.N. acknowledged they had.  Britain's part was simply to stop fighting against Israeli control and withdraw from their protectorate. 

The UN did (in effect if not directly and that's why I said "effectively) create Israel. I stand by that.

Or "facilitate"? Would that word suit you better? "Legitimize"?

Following the adoption of a resolution by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 29 November 1947 recommending the adoption and implementation of the United Nations plan to partition Palestine, on 14 May 1948 David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel, a state independent from the British Mandate for Palestine. Neighboring Arab states invaded the next day in support of the Palestinian Arabs.

So, if the UN's recognition of Israel was a mere formality then why did it elicit such a strong response?

The answer is; because it wasn't a mere formality at all. It was quite significant because it meant that Israel had the world's support. VERY significant.

[Oss]

well if you call the  INQUISITION  integrating ..........

lets see how did they integrate you if you would not convert to the Church

Death by Ordeal

Death by Fire

Death by Stoning

Death by Stretching  - the rack

Death by being Beheaded

Yep those Spanish were sure mellow folks

And they sure caved in to terrorist demands quickly

remember the incident with the train bombing

but believe what you will its a free country

[Fudd]

I've never delusioned my self into thinking that the American Indian lived in a perfect utopia.  I know life was hard, brutal wars happening between rival tribes, early mortality, ect.

I do see them as being successful in that; they lived here for somewhere between 6 and 10 thousand years with their way of life.  They had become a part of nature and not exploiters of it.  They had their own religious beliefs and customs that were compatable with their lifestyles.  Their connection with the spirit world was based on the land, air, water and other living creatures around them.

We stripped them of all of that.  Maybe, with good intentions (like wanting to save their savage souls).  

I'm sorry, I don't have the answers, and I'm not in favor of "giving back" Mt. Rushmore.  But, I do feel, after touring a few Indian Reservations, doing something to help their plight is the right thing to do.

[alph]

I'm Irish, can I get a hand out for the degrading unsavory way MY people were treated?
Its stupid to try to attach todays morals and social values on the actions of 150/200 years ago.

my father told me of Italian Americans that he knew of being rounded up and put into concentration camps just like the  German Americans and  Japanese Americans were during WWII,  here, in America!!  i guess i'm entitled to complain about that, aren't i?

it's the past.  get over it. (don't forget, learn from it.)

and as for giving back Mount Rushmore, um, not going to happen......  also, no one is holding a rifle to their heads, forcing them to stay on the reservations.  i'd love to be an american indian.  around here, they get to hunt and fish anytime of the year, never have to buy a hunting liecense, can kill what ever they want, and just throw it away.  if you don't believe me, come by when they do their walleye spear fishing, then go to the bars and look at the backs of some of their pickup trucks filled with game fish, rotting away.  yeah, we americans are so bad......

[hubcapsc]

I've never delusioned my self into thinking that the American Indian lived in a perfect utopia.  I know life was hard, brutal wars happening between rival tribes, early mortality, ect.

I do see them as being successful in that; they lived here for somewhere between 6 and 10 thousand years with their way of life.  They had become a part of nature and not exploiters of it.  They had their own religious beliefs and customs that were compatable with their lifestyles.  Their connection with the spirit world was based on the land, air, water and other living creatures around them.

We stripped them of all of that.  Maybe, with good intentions (like wanting to save their savage souls).  

I'm sorry, I don't have the answers, and I'm not in favor of "giving back" Mt. Rushmore.  But, I do feel, after touring a few Indian Reservations, doing something to help their plight is the right thing to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_use_of_fire

-Mike

[Willow]

The UN did (in effect if not directly and that's why I said "effectively) create Israel. I stand by that.

Or "facilitate"? Would that word suit you better? "Legitimize"?

...

So, if the UN's recognition of Israel was a mere formality then why did it elicit such a strong response?

The answer is; because it wasn't a mere formality at all. It was quite significant because it meant that Israel had the world's support. VERY significant.

 I understand your standing.  I, as well,  stand by my facts.  I guess we'll just stand where we stand.

"Legitimize" would cause us to stand  more closely.  "Facilitate" would not.  

The answer is?  The real answer is probably more closely related to the withdrawal of the British peace keeping forces.

But then, we were talking about Indians, weren't we?