Well Crap......Bad News......

[Karen]

I've worked union and non-union. What I saw in the union was people screwing off and the union protecting them (IBEW). 5000 Union jobs in Massachusetts went to non union shops in Mississippi, Texas, and Arizona because the company could not afford to pay the rates for people who weren't getting the work out. The company/union had an educational benefit that allowed me to get my degree in Software Engineering for practically nothing. That same company hired me back as a non-union engineer, and paid me very well for the work I did. They laid me off 6 months ago, and I've been receiving severance pay (Thank you, Company!). There was a strike several years ago, and I volunteered to go back & work on the line. During the six weeks of strike, the non-union (and untrained) staff put out twice as much work with half the number of people. Union? No thanks. The non-union menial jobs I've done always got me pay raises and grade increases, simply because I worked hard. You don't need a Union, my parents and grandparents may have, but I certainly didn't like being reminded, as I was going to vote in the union elections, "Be sure you vote the right way..."

[wiggydotcom]

yea i would really love to work under union rule................pay them so you can work,pay them so they can voice what they think is in your best intrest,decide that you are going on strike (while you are in the bread line and your house is being foreclosed on) while the union rep is going to the bahamas for the 4th time this year. working for the unions is a form of slavery. they own you, control your every move. under union rule is like living being a jew living under hitlers rule, you never know when you are going to be sent to the gas chamber

That isn't how my union works....not sure what one you're describing.

[junior]

you see it like this the unions had feild tested the koolaid for Obama, and now i know just who has been drinking it 

[Davet261]

This is to Jess

I am not saying all non union companies, but there are fly by the seat of the pants outfits, working out of the back of their trucks.  The building owners do not supply drawings, that is up to the contractors.  The building owner may supply a building drawing at the best.  Some just go into an existing room, get out their tape measure and start measuring, get out their cameras andf take pictures.and draw it on a piece of paper and hope it fits, sometimes it does, sometimes it dont.  You get in a building where you are installing multiple long runs of duct, or piping, its more common than you think about valves, vav boxes, dampers being installed backwards.  Last year at Adena Schools in Piketon a run of duct had to be removed from  2' x 2' brick drain that run along a bottom wall in the boiler room into the next room.  Instead of using a core boring drill and boring a hole through the wall they run it on the floor in the drain.  They called our service department to see why they were not getting proper heat in their gymnasium and that is what they found.  School maintenance teams are not engineers, thy have to assume the contractor knows what they are doing.  The service department suggested they call the contractor that installed the duct and they told him it was a local contractor but he was no longer in business.  Yes it happens and it happens more than you think.  

Oh by the way, we use Trimble units to plot duct and pipe runs, we dont depend on cameras and tape measures......

[Jess Tolbirt]

Dave, i will admit there are some real winners out there, but the way i was brought up is if you cant do the job let us know before we fire you and can get you into a trade school,,,Dow Chemical paid many thousands of dollars to send me to school and now i boast about having 3 associates degrees and none of them get me squat except for a little knowledge..

there are some good union workers out there but there are just as many bad ones as there are non union,,,

the way i work now is i hire a company to do some work for me,,if the work is done in a timely manner and done right they will get more work from me,,union or non union,,if they try to screw me then i send them packing,,,

[2step]

well lets see now.. i joined IBEW in 1983,,in 2003 i had to declare bankruptcy,,the union cost me everything i had worked for,,sat on the books for 3 years and finally my name got to the top of the list,, got a long call that lasted 29 days,,,another 3 years? dont think so,,went non union and have a great life now working for great people,,,the unions had their place but in todays economy not so much,, high wages are driving manufacturing out of our country,,,

I've been a Teamster for 25 years no way could I make the money I make at any factory around here in fact most of the factories here hire you as temporary so they don't have to give you crap . No insurance ,no vacation etc....Smokin'joe <----Union worker and damn proud of it.

Damn right Joe, I've been union for 36 years in the coal mines, we dont drive our companys out of business with high wages, we just get our fair share. We make them work safe, provide health ins, vacs, good decent wages and benefits. The only reason the companies leave for cheaper labor is so they can have more for their execs. Of course they cant very well the coalfields because its here, and the arse wholes that think they can undercut dont last to long, if you know what I mean. Watch the movie Bloody Harlan, Ky. its what our fathers and grandfathers fought for.

[Davet261]

Dave, i will admit there are some real winners out there, but the way i was brought up is if you cant do the job let us know before we fire you and can get you into a trade school,,,Dow Chemical paid many thousands of dollars to send me to school and now i boast about having 3 associates degrees and none of them get me squat except for a little knowledge..

there are some good union workers out there but there are just as many bad ones as there are non union,,,

the way i work now is i hire a company to do some work for me,,if the work is done in a timely manner and done right they will get more work from me,,union or non union,,if they try to screw me then i send them packing,,,

Point well taken Jess,

There is good and bad in both, IMO even though I am no longer in a union I have been treated well.  I am also treated very good in being a company employee now.  I have had the best of both worlds, and I do apologize if I came off as arrogent, I'm not, but I am passionate about my thoughts.

[BigAl]

Our Machinists at work and Joe both work in a right to work state.

All of our machinists joined the Union.

 In a right to work state people still join the Union and make better wages than the ones that are not.

It does not matter about right to work or closed shop.

If the workers vote a union in then it's in.

But I will say that most of the guys don't work near what thier potential is and the lazy ones can't be fired

even if we wanted to.

Thats the part that is driving the work out of this country.

People that take advantage of the system

[hubcapsc]

I think an example of who needs to  be Unionized are the people who climb cell towers.

The cell companies are making million$ or billion$ and to hear Frontline tell it,
the contracted-out-three-times-removed guys who are climbing the towers are treated badly,
paid lowly and are untrained which leads to them dying.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cell-tower-deaths/

Perhaps unionization could lead to these guys getting the pay and work-safety they
deserve...

-Mike

[DIGGER]

Yeah, I think the non union workers you are talking about are being whipped and beaten into forced labor.   Do they have health insurance provided at no cost?  Guarantee you they are working for less money per hr.    Do they have a 401k (they probably do) but I'll bet you they don't have a monthly retirement of anykind when they get old.    When I retire in a couple yrs I'll have my 401k, a monthly retirement check, and I'll bet you they won't get it.   Yeah, I think they are being taken advantage of.

http://www.boeing.com/careers/benefits/us_benefits.html#health

Nothing's free, even if you're in a union.

I don't know how to check if the South Carolina Boeing employees make as much as the ones
in Washington do. We have a great standard of living in SC, though, gas (and lots of stuff) is
cheaper here than any other state. Might not be able to compare salaries without some kind
of adjustment... It is hard to imagine that the people with all the good jobs at the Boeing plant,
the BMW plant, the Michelin plants, etc, are being "taken advantage" of... Having a decent job
and living in South Carolina is like being in Heaven on earth 

I'll never own a business, anywhere. If I did, it would be up to me who to hire, when to fire
them, and how much to pay them.

-Mike

If you were a business owner, like the contractors who are union,remember that no one MAKES a contractor be union.   The owners of the companies WANT to be union.  They dont HAVE to sign a contract with the union, they WANT to.    They can pick up the phone and call the union hall and order out the number of skilled workers they need for a job.  They don't have to worry about having to train them, they are already trained.  when the job is over, they don't have to CARRY their time till the next job comes along, they just lay them off and send them back to the hall.   Next job comes along they need more help they call the hall.   They have a skilled workforce at their beck and call.  They already know what the workers will cost them so there is no haggling with each worker over money.   It's all cut and dried.  They respect their workers and we respect our contractors.  That is the way it works.

[Duffy]

So Detn8er, you are still coming to Britman's ride right? 

[Gunslinger]

If all states were right to work we might just become competitive agan as a nation.  Union made has just about driven all our manifacturing away.

Boeing Moved out of Wichita, KS (A right to work state) to open that plant. WTF did right to work have to do with it?

[Detn8er]

So Detn8er, you are still coming to Britman's ride right? 

Maybemightbethereornotcouldbeisare. 

[alph]

If all states were right to work we might just become competitive agan as a nation.  Union made has just about driven all our manifacturing away.

i work for a company that has fired three people in the last two years, their combined knowledge was over 50 years of experience.   Two of ‘em were canned ‘cause management didn’t like their opinion, and one was fired ‘cause he voiced his opinion.  Union might have “forced” jobs overseas, but when your boss knows that he can treat you like crap, and get away with it, they will.  I don’t work for a union, but wouldn’t mind if they would take me.
My retirement is solely dependent on ME.  And believe me, I WON’T be sitting on some excellent healthcare plan when I retire!!  There won’t be any pension, only what I put away.  I’ve paid into social security for the last 30+ years now, and that won’t even be there when I retire ‘cause some idiot in washinton thought it would be better spent on some fat slob on welfare…..
The only thing I hate about unions is that the local IBEW is ran by a jerk that only takes democrats.  Now, is that fair?   

If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.   

I AGREE WHOLE HEARTEDLY!!  Can’t stand flying in that “euro-buss” thing!!   It always feels like it’s going to fall apart in mid air!!

Right to work stste dosen't mean you have the right to work,it means the employer has the right to fire you for no reason.If he had a bad day and you rub him the wrong way your history .I know this because it happened to me in Az. a right to work state .I got injured on the job and six months later I was fired and could not collect unemployment.He told me I was laid off and told the unemployment office I was fired.I was screwed.That would not happen in a union shop.Small los as I was getting about $15 less per hour than my last employer in Ca.

Wisconsin’s the same way.  Your boss can fire you for NO reason, and they do. 

Az. is a right to work state,Ca.is a pro working man state

I wouldn’t be bragging about that one!!  Look at their financial situation!!  I love California, beautiful state, but don’t know about their financial future.  I’m thinking that to pay off our national deficit, we’ll have to give it to china!!

Maybemightbethereornotcouldbeisare. 

Broken space bar on keypad, must have been made in china, nonunion…..