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BarendR
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« on: June 07, 2012, 01:15:02 PM » |
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When I still didn't have my title after two months I contacted the dealer, which claimed they had been calling me ... on a number I never gave them, but that's a different story. Anyway, I wound up telling them that I would drop the bike of so they could fix this problem, but what would they give me to ride wile they did? That turned out to be a 02 (?) Wing. Not a bad ride, though it had a slight head shake and not something I would want as a daily rider, problem is, driving home this morning I had a situation and the the bike wound up going down the road without me. This is where the problem starts.
I called the insurance and got a claim number, I called the dealer and passed on the information and made arrangements to bring the Wing over there. I would have preferred to ride it over to get my own bike back (they have the title now), but hey, I'm mostly OK, so I shouldn't complain. Anyhow, they won't give me my bike! They want me to pay them the difference between the suddenly diminished value of my Valk I/S and this Wing (2500) OR, they want a check from the insurance company. At the same time they already started pushing for me to buy the Wing using the Valk and the insurance money and then I can fix it or have them fix it. They are claiming they did not have insurance on it for me to drive it?! They are also saying that this Wing was under contract and the guy was making payments. I just want my Valk and I just don't see that they can deny me that at this point.
Suggestions??
As far as what I can see on the Wing: forks/handlebar twisted/bent, fairing pushed back/cracked/scraped, mirrors, right exhaust, right crash and bag bar, possibly front rim.
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The Anvil
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 01:19:04 PM » |
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"They are claiming they did not have insurance on it for me to drive it?! They are also saying that this Wing was under contract and the guy was making payments. I just want my Valk and I just don't see that they can deny me that at this point. Suggestions??" Call the "owner" of the wing and tell him that the dealer gave you his bike?  Glad you're okay but damn, those are some shady bidness practices right there. |
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Boxer rebellion, the Holy Child. They all pay their rent.
But none together can testify to the rhythm of a road well bent.
Saddles and zip codes, passports and gates, the Jones' keep.
In August the water is trickling, in April it's furious deep.
1997 Valk Standard, Red and White.
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Hoser
Member
Posts: 5844
child of the sixties VRCC 17899
Auburn, Kansas
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 01:19:28 PM » |
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I suggest legal representation. Hoser
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I don't want a pickle, just wanna ride my motor sickle  [img width=300 height=233]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/ |
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tank_post142
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2012, 01:21:30 PM » |
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get ahold of your attorney general tomorrow. get the title the wing and everything cleared up at once. they may also loose their license in the process. sounds like they did not pay the sales tax so they have never transferred the title. a criminal offense in any state.
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I got a rock  VRCCDS0246  |
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BarendR
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 01:29:21 PM » |
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As far as the Valk title: the bike had a Georgia title, was sold to HD of Greenville in SC, was sold to someone else who then traded it with Foothills Motorsport, neither of those three got it titled untill I bought it. The DMV wanted to see the bike before issuing a title. At least that's the way i understand it.
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Jess Tolbirt
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 01:36:17 PM » |
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3 words come to mind,
deceptive trade practices
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Valkyrie member # 23084
Started out on old forum on day one but lost my member number.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 01:37:46 PM » |
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Sounds like to me, faulty maintenance or lack of from a DEALER that gave you an unsafe bike to ride was at the root of the cause of the crash! Dang bro, you know how to get in one mess dontch
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BarendR
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 01:43:32 PM » |
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Sounds like to me, faulty maintenance or lack of from a DEALER that gave you an unsafe bike to ride was at the root of the cause of the crash! Dang bro, you know how to get in one mess dontch
I suppose you could argue that ............ I have only 5 quarter size scrapes, my leather jacket (it was nippy, lucky me) has some scrapes and my visor is scratched pretty bad. I consider myself extremely lucky! |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 01:47:10 PM » |
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Sounds like to me, faulty maintenance or lack of from a DEALER that gave you an unsafe bike to ride was at the root of the cause of the crash! Dang bro, you know how to get in one mess dontch
I suppose you could argue that ............ I have only 5 quarter size scrapes, my leather jacket (it was nippy, lucky me) has some scrapes and my visor is scratched pretty bad. I consider myself extremely lucky! Yep...cudda been worser, I went down on my 10speed tday and have more road rash than that and a thown out back to boot........I hope the vicoden holds out the morphene is starting to wear off |
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sugerbear
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 02:08:45 PM » |
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yep get legal on this one. you need someone on your side to sort this out
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Alien
Member
Posts: 1414
Ride Safe, Be Kind
Earth
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 02:32:26 PM » |
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the the bike wound up going down the road without me. This is where the problem starts.
Seems like the problem started earlier than you think.  |
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ricoman
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 03:00:15 PM » |
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I suggest legal representation. Hoser
and quick and loud! |
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take personal responsibility and keep your word
98 Tourer, black and chrome, added 8/11/10
98 Std, yellow/cream, totaled 8/3/10
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shooter64
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2012, 03:10:42 PM » |
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Yes, a lawyer might take this one on contengency (sp?) Remember you went down because the bike they gave you had a steering problem.
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Columbia, S.C.
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old2soon
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2012, 03:24:19 PM » |
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Simple-LAWYER UP NOW. Got a bad feelin iffin you don't you REALLY won't like how this turns out. Get a Lawyer A S A P. RIDE SAFE. |
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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GreenLantern57
Member
Posts: 1543
Hail to the king baby!
Rock Hill, SC
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2012, 06:23:40 PM » |
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Bike was actually sold and they let you borrow it! Shaky head means the steering bearings are bad. Have the lawyer request a unbiased shop to check the bike for any other problems. I hate you wrecked, but they should hand over your bike. And since they also allowed you to have someone elses bike. They are liable for damages. Bet a lawyer calling them would be all it takes.
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wlgrice
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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2012, 07:02:56 PM » |
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I dont know about the new ones but the older 1800's 01 at least to 03 had a steering problem, I had a 03 and had to replace the bearings to a tapered bearing to get the shake out.
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BIG--T
Member
Posts: 3002
1998 Standard, 2000 Interstate
The Twilight Zone
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2012, 07:42:32 PM » |
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Sounds like to me, faulty maintenance or lack of from a DEALER that gave you an unsafe bike to ride was at the root of the cause of the crash! Dang bro, you know how to get in one mess dontch
I suppose you could argue that ............ I have only 5 quarter size scrapes, my leather jacket (it was nippy, lucky me) has some scrapes and my visor is scratched pretty bad. I consider myself extremely lucky! Yeah I would be getting a lawyer. First they should have insurance on what they give you to drive, and giving someone's bike is asinine!! Did you get it at Foothills, a red and black? |
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 08:00:41 PM by BIG--T »
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 07:43:41 PM » |
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You should contact your auto ins carrier and ask if you are/were covered in a dealer loaner vehicle accident. (I assume you did not own a motorcycle with insurance on it at the time of the accident.) Longshot, but worth a phone call.
Your position should be that you relied on the dealer to provide you with a good serviceable loaner vehicle which was properly insured.... you assumed and had every right to expect that it was. I am betting there was NO paperwork on this loaner. There are no doubt rules for dealers on this.
The dealer has a claim against you for damage to their loaner. Their claim may or may not be compromised by their action in loaning you a vehicle to drive that was uninsured (they knew or should have known it was uninsured).
The dealer likely has some pretty extensive insurance coverage against all manner of losses, and the damage to the Wing may in fact be covered, and they may be shining you on because they do not want to make a claim against their company (and let their carrier know they loaned an otherwise uninsured vehicle.... a practice that could get them cancelled). If they have coverage (and you don't), it should be used to fix the damage.
Under your State law, they may be able to legitimately hold your bike under a mechanic's lien (or some other type of lien) against the value of their claim. A lien is governed under state law and has tricky rules, use the internet to read up on them. They may be required to file some paperwork somewhere within certain time limits to perfect such a lien.... with legal notice to you (cause it's your property). Though they may have a legitimate lien, if they do not follow the rules to perfect the lien to the letter, they have no legal lien.
Generally, this is a civil matter, the police will not help either side, short of a court order or judgment. However, if the dealer is not forthcoming with a lawful reason they are holding your bike, you can certainly threaten to call the police to force its return. You may also want to discover what State agency/department regulates auto/bike dealers and make inquiries.
If the dealer commences to fix the Wing at their own expense (intending for you to pay all parts and labor), they have an obligation to minimize (mitigate) the damages (and be reasonable) and not run up an exorbitant bill for their own gain.
If the Wing was under contract and a guy making payments, you can bet the guy did not own the Wing, the dealer would hold title until the last cent was paid. The guy will have every right to cancel the contract and demand all his money back. Their contract cannot make him buy a wrecked and repaired motorcycle. The dealer could conceivably make a claim against you for this loss as well, or the difference in fair market value of the Wing before and after repairs (if any, and I'd ask for proof), as well as the repairs.
Unless you claim the Wing was not in good riding order and they negligently loaned you a defective bike that directly caused the accident (seems unlikely), and you sue the dealer for damages, no attorney will take this case on a contingent fee basis. You will be quoted an hourly rate with a certain amount up front against that rate.
If you seek legal representation, your approach should be to seek a free (or reasonable flat rate) consultation where you describe all the facts and the attorney tells you where you stand vrs the dealer, and what he can certainly or probably or maybe do for you, and what it will cost you. THEN you decide whether you will hire him on that basis. You do not go down to hire a lawyer, you go down to see what he thinks and what he can do for you and what it will cost.... then you decide whether to hire him.
In communicating with the dealer, do not burn bridges or make enemies, be reasonable and professional even in disagreement. If you will seek legal representation, let him do the talking.
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 07:47:44 PM by Jess from VA »
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Valkahuna
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 08:16:22 PM » |
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Bike was actually sold and they let you borrow it! Shaky head means the steering bearings are bad. Have the lawyer request a unbiased shop to check the bike for any other problems. I hate you wrecked, but they should hand over your bike. And since they also allowed you to have someone elses bike. They are liable for damages. Bet a lawyer calling them would be all it takes.
+1. Seems to me they did a bunch of stuff wrong and someone with some legal background needs to splain the fact of the law to them.  |
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The key thing is to wake up breathing! All the rest can be fixed. (Except Stupid - You can't fix that)
2014 Indian Chieftain
2001 Valkyrie I/S
Proud to be a Vietnam Vet (US Air Force - SAC, 1967-1972)
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BarendR
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2012, 04:21:49 AM » |
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[quote author=BIG--T
Yeah I would be getting a lawyer. First they should have insurance on what they give you to drive, and giving someone's bike is asinine!! Did you get it at Foothills, a red and black?
[/quote]
Yes, I got the red and black at Foothills, been there since before Christmas last year. They did swap pipes on it and when I got it it had Cobra's on there.
Jess, I understand that the dealer holds the title until a bike is paid in full, but lets say you go to a gunstore (yes I'm stereotyping here) and purchase a weapon on layaway and the store then lets someone else use that weapon before you finish paying in full; it's their gun, you wouldn't have a problem??
No there was no paperwork on the loaner, not even a copy of my license
Of course I'd be liable for the deductible, mine or theirs, but my deductible is $500, not $7500(market value of my Valk).
And unless I'm mistaken a mechanics lien files a claim against the value of a piece of property, it does not give the right to confiscate that property
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BIG--T
Member
Posts: 3002
1998 Standard, 2000 Interstate
The Twilight Zone
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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2012, 04:51:52 AM » |
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When I still didn't have my title after two months I contacted the dealer, which claimed they had been calling me ... on a number I never gave them, but that's a different story. Anyway, I wound up telling them that I would drop the bike of so they could fix this problem, but what would they give me to ride wile they did? That turned out to be a 02 (?) Wing. Not a bad ride, though it had a slight head shake and not something I would want as a daily rider, problem is, driving home this morning I had a situation and the the bike wound up going down the road without me. This is where the problem starts.
I called the insurance and got a claim number, I called the dealer and passed on the information and made arrangements to bring the Wing over there. I would have preferred to ride it over to get my own bike back (they have the title now), but hey, I'm mostly OK, so I shouldn't complain. Anyhow, they won't give me my bike! They want me to pay them the difference between the suddenly diminished value of my Valk I/S and this Wing (2500) OR, they want a check from the insurance company. At the same time they already started pushing for me to buy the Wing using the Valk and the insurance money and then I can fix it or have them fix it. They are claiming they did not have insurance on it for me to drive it?! They are also saying that this Wing was under contract and the guy was making payments. I just want my Valk and I just don't see that they can deny me that at this point.
Suggestions??
As far as what I can see on the Wing: forks/handlebar twisted/bent, fairing pushed back/cracked/scraped, mirrors, right exhaust, right crash and bag bar, possibly front rim.
So you dropped the bike off only bc you didn't have a title, nothing wrong with it? I think they are pushing the wing bc that Valk has been sitting there probably 2 years. I would talk to Dick Waters or a good lawyer, but think I would call the state insurance commisioner because for them to give you a "loaner" they are required to have insurance! As far as the wing being under contract I think is another lie they told. First I've never heard anyone making payments to a dealer, but the dealer usually has may financing companies and will just about guarantee you get the loan...no matter the interest rate. Now some mom & pop auto car lot owners have a buy here- pay here, but not major dealers. No all my experience is based on autos but should be the same. Good luck and hope it works for ya!! |
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Oss
Member
Posts: 12887
The lower Hudson Valley
Ossining NY Chapter Rep VRCCDS0141
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2012, 05:24:26 AM » |
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+1 what Jess said Every year I conduct a raid on John Haymond's law firm he represents motorcycle riders with other attorneys across the country I HAVE NEVER sent him a case but this is the website http://www.haymondlaw.com/maybe they can point you in the right direction again no relation to Haymond other than I get to have fun with his secretaries  |
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If you don't know where your going any road will take you there
George Harrison
When you come to the fork in the road, take it
Yogi Berra (Don't send it to me C.O.D.)
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BarendR
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2012, 08:20:36 AM » |
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Turned out OK, for me anyway, spoke with the senior adjuster this morning and he called Foothills. The manager called me at around 1040 this a.m. said he talked to the adjuster and what they would have to do, then told me everything was taken care of and I could come get my bike, tag and title. 'Course the tag was on the bike so that should never have been an issue.
Thanks for the support and feedback!
Barend
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WamegoRob
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2012, 08:27:03 AM » |
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Wow.. congrats on the happy ending. This could have become quite a debacle.
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Bonzo
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2012, 11:14:47 AM » |
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I am glad you and all are well!
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Woops, I'm sorry.
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GreenLantern57
Member
Posts: 1543
Hail to the king baby!
Rock Hill, SC
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2012, 07:26:13 PM » |
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Whew! Glad they came to a reasonable decision. Would have loved to been there to hear what the adjuster told them.
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