Going to the darkside

[Gavin_Sons]

After a year of reading about darkside and talking to several people I decided on the falken ziex 512 in a 205 65 16. Now looking to replace the front tire but dont know what with. Any suggestions? My ct will be delivered monday and hopefully get it mounted this coming week.

[X Ring]

You can go with a stock size m/c tire like the Metzler 880, Avon Cobra or Dunlop Elite 3.  You can also go Double DarkSide with a rear m/c tire on the front running reverse rotation.  I and a few others are running the Avon AM-26 Roadrider in 130/90-17.  I picked mine up from a listing Chaparral Motorsports had on eBay for $117 shipped.

Marty

[Rams]

After a year of reading about darkside and talking to several people I decided on the falken ziex 512 in a 205 65 16. Now looking to replace the front tire but dont know what with. Any suggestions? My ct will be delivered monday and hopefully get it mounted this coming week.

I'm at the same point with my fat gurl just reversed.  I like running the MC tire on front, doubt I'll change my opinion on that but, one never knows.  Just ordered a stock Metzler for the front that will be mounted Monday or Tuesday.  Still got a ways to go on my rear but, I'm seriously considering going darkside there.  If I don't like it, it really won't take long to wear it out if that's what I want to do.  I'm told it doesn't take long to get used to it and once a rider does, they don't normally go back.  So, we shall see.   

[Jabba]

I was not a fan of the rear tire on the front.  I tried it, and it lasted only 200 miles.  I didn't like the downward pitch in the front, and the overspeeding of the odometer.

I hear different sizes make that better. 

I run Metzeler ME880's.

Jabba

[Gavin_Sons]

I have avon venoms on it now and the front is about worn out so im going to have to replace it reguardless. Just wondering what tire works well in the front when running a ct. I may just get an avon to replace the front. I dont know though, thats why im asking here.

[Jabba]

I don't think it makes a lot of difference.  I have never had any bad luck with Metzeler tires.  Avons are cheaper.  No one seems to like Dunlops.

Good luck man.  See you in Eureka Springs.

Jabba

[Gavin_Sons]

Im not making it to eureka springs this year. Its the same week as my sons birthday so im staying home with the family. Maybe next year ill make it wherever it may be. I will be at the dragon round up In september.

[old2soon]

I had a Metz 880 up front with my D/S rear. Got 14454 miles out of the Metz. Really liked the way it handled wet and dry. I now have a Shinko S E 890 on the front and at approx 3500 miles i'm liking what i'm feeling with it. Can't tell you about rain performance as i haven't had enough rain here to tell you. And my D/S changed from a General Altimaz H P 205-60-16 to a Falken Ziex 512 in 205-65-16. I've only put 25 miles on the Falken but even that short stretch i believe i'll be good. RIDE SAFE.

[Rams]

I don't think it makes a lot of difference.  I have never had any bad luck with Metzeler tires.  Avons are cheaper.  No one seems to like Dunlops.

Good luck man.  See you in Eureka Springs.

Jabba

I agree on the Metzlers but, the statement about the Dunlops is a little confusing.  If I remember correctly they are priced higher and I've read some good reports on them.  Can you enlighten me on the Dunlops issues?  Almost went that way this time but didn't due to $$$ constraints.

[Steve K (IA)]

  No one seems to like Dunlops.

Jabba

  ???  There are a lot of members who are running E3's that are getting great wear (20,000 miles) and handling out of that tire.
My I/S is on it's second set of Dunlop E3's, the Std on it's second set of Metz 880's (since I've owned it).  I like them both, but I think the Std will get E3's when the 880's need changed out.  The E3's handle really well in wet or dry conditions.  Can't say anything good about Avons in wet conditions. Had a very bad experience and I guess that's all it takes to color ones opinion.

Two tires that will Never go back onto my Valkyries are car tires or Avons!   

[fudgie]

I've only had Metz since my oem flop wore out in 2001. Lotta luck with them. Feels great with my CT. I get about 23k on the front with Metz

[Jess from VA]

I've only had Metz since my oem flop wore out in 2001. Lotta luck with them. Feels great with my CT. I get about 23k on the front with Metz

And I cannot get more than 8-9K on the radial Metz front (multiple times, 42-44psi).  And I love these tires. 


So I am trying the Avon Roadrider rear on the front reversed next up.

[Rams]

I had a Metz 880 up front with my D/S rear. Got 14454 miles out of the Metz. Really liked the way it handled wet and dry.

 No one seems to like Dunlops.

Jabba

  ???  There are a lot of members who are running E3's that are getting great wear (20,000 miles) and handling out of that tire.

I've only had Metz since my oem flop wore out in 2001. Lotta luck with them. Feels great with my CT. I get about 23k on the front with Metz

I must be doing something wrong, I'm just a little over 7K miles on my Metzler front and the side wall are really showing the wear, the center is worn also but, the reason I'm putting a new one is is I don't like slick side walls.  Hmm, must be those Kentucky roads, yeah, that's it.

[fudgie]

I must be doing something wrong, I'm just a little over 7K miles on my Metzler front and the side wall are really showing the wear, the center is worn also but, the reason I'm putting a new one is is I don't like slick side walls.  Hmm, must be those Kentucky roads, yeah, that's it.

Dont know what I'm doing but must be doing it right!    This is the 3rd Metz I've put on in 11 yrs and 60k miles I believe.

[Rams]

I must be doing something wrong, I'm just a little over 7K miles on my Metzler front and the side wall are really showing the wear, the center is worn also but, the reason I'm putting a new one is is I don't like slick side walls.  Hmm, must be those Kentucky roads, yeah, that's it.

Dont know what I'm doing but must be doing it right!    This is the 3rd Metz I've put on in 11 yrs and 60k miles I believe.

Don't know either, might be that passenger that used to ride with ya.  I ride almost entirely solo and tend to need to lean into curves a lot.  Don't know honestly, you may ride more agressively than I do.  Hmmm, may have to follow you around for a few hundred miles. 

I get excellent mileage out of my back tires and I'm running 40 to 41 PSI.  Hmm, I guess it's gotta be the roads.  (((Shrugg)))

[Gavin_Sons]

Exactly what size metz should I look for? Planning on running a rear in reverse rotation. Or is that even possible?

[Jess from VA]

Exactly what size metz should I look for? Planning on running a rear in reverse rotation. Or is that even possible?

You cannot get a a better tire, just one that lasts longer. This is a proper radial front, not a rear bias run backwards.  

Metzeler tire for the Valkyrie, Front ME880 150/80R17 Radial
http://www.hondadirectlineofshadyside.com/stores/product.asp?pid=489&str=2&ID=40585798


If you want a 130 bias rear to run on front, reversed, then this:
Avon AM-26 Roadrider in 130/90-17  from Chaparral Motorsports

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/avon-am26-roadrider-rear-tire/330-5730.aspx

[Gavin_Sons]

So to run a rear tire on the front in reverse you want bias? Or to run a regular front tire you want radial? Do I have this correct?

[X Ring]

If you run a rear tire on the front you should run it reverse so the ends of the belts are pushed together when you brake just like a front tire would be.

Marty

[Gavin_Sons]

How do you like the avon on the front? Apparently its working well for you.

[Jess from VA]

Gavinsons, the deal is, apparently no one has found a radial rear in an acceptable size/profile to run on the Valk front, so they have moved to bias to get the best approximate size and profile. There may be additional issues with rear radials on the front I am unaware of.  This will affect the gear-driven speedo accuracy on standards and tourers (over and above the 5% speedo inaccuracy of all metric cruisers, including the Valk).

I have never run a rear bias on the front, but based on experience of others I trust, I'm about to try it.  [It took me four years of reading others reports before I tried the car tire on the rear (and that's all I run now).]  The front Metz radial I love is now $230 and only giving me 7K good miles, and maybe 1500 more less-than-good miles.  The Avon I referred to was around $116 delivered, and may go 15K miles or more.  Rear MC tires (bias and radial) have 2 to 3 times the tread depth of front tires.  If the Avon bias I am going to try won't cut the mustard of mountain riding it will come off..... I am told it will. 

[Gavin_Sons]

Thank you for all the info. Im going to order the avon this morning.

[Gavin_Sons]

So my set up is going to be the falken ziex 512 205/65/16 on the rear and the avon roadrider am26 130/90/17 on front in reverse rotation. Thanks to everyone for all the input

[steve 3054]

Not a good ideal to reverse the tread patteren on the front...boils down to how does the tire know its on the front...this has been beat to death on the Rune board,,,,put the tire on in the direction it was built to go!!!!!

[Jabba]

I have heard of some people liking the E3's... but the OEM Dunlops are unlikeable.  I have never heard of anyone liking them... and thus the nickname Dun-Flops.

I hated the ones that I have ridden on so much... I wouldn't give an E3 a fair shake. 

Like you said... one bad experience colors your opinion.

Me... I am a Metzeler guy.  And a Falken CT guy.  Even though I have an Altimax on one too.

Jabba

[Gavin_Sons]

What was said about how the belts are lapped makes sense to me. Im running it in reverse rotation

[old2soon]

Me and that Falken Ziex 512 i recently installed are doing fine. I put right at 110 miles on some of my favorite twistys today and the confidence level is right where it was with the General Altimax-very high. As of this post i have 179 miles on the Falken but i'm sure it's a keeper. And riding at 93 degrees F is a lot better than anything from 102 degrees F and higher. At least thats my take on the situation. RIDE SAFE.

[Gavin_Sons]

My understandin on the tires are the rear tire belt is lapped so when you are accelerating they pull together and the front is lapped so when you are stopping the belts pull together. So to run a rear on the front you would need to reverse the normal rotation so the belts wont pull themselves apart under hard breaking.  I may be right or I may be wrong. Can anyone confirm this?

[RainMaker]

My understandin on the tires are the rear tire belt is lapped so when you are accelerating they pull together and the front is lapped so when you are stopping the belts pull together. So to run a rear on the front you would need to reverse the normal rotation so the belts wont pull themselves apart under hard breaking.  I may be right or I may be wrong. Can anyone confirm this?

If that proves to be true, then it seems the front tires on a front wheel drive car would eventually all have belt failure.

[Gavin_Sons]

Im sure its hust a mc tire thing. This is just what I have heard and found in the research I have done.

[Fritz The Cat]

I always thought the tread pattern determined the direction of rotation.

[Gavin_Sons]

I dont really know. Thats why im asking you guys on here.still debating weather to run it reversed or not.

[Dubsvalk]

The only time there is pressure on the belts on a front tire is when the brakes are applied.  Thus the reverse rotation for a rear M/C tire on the front. 
Also, I have run Dunlop E-3s for years without any problems.  I get about 12,000 miles out of them with no road noise or cupping.  I'm currently running the dunlop Austone Taxi Tire on the rear.  It handles as good as, if not better than the E-3 it replaced.  I won't be going back to a rear M/C tire.  And am very seriously considering a Rear M/C tire for the front when replacement time comes.  The information I have gained from the members of this forum, the darkside forum and my friends that I ride with; convinced me to try the darkside.  Their research and testing proved that it is safe and cost effective.
Dubs

[steve 3054]

Short answer from the Rune Board





How would a front tire know it's on the rear? It would produce acceleration: something it can't do on the front.

Using a rear tire on the front causes one of two effects: loading of the carcass against the design direction (normal rotation) or water removal against the design direction (reverse rotation). You get to pick the compromise.

i do not reverse rotation ......... over 13,000 miles on my BTO14 rear tire i run on the front ........
all the tire reps that stop @ my shop have said the same thing ......... UNTIL i say step back here and look @ this ....... they do not know what to say ....... when i tell them ..... to tell me how the motorcycle knows it's on the front ........ it still carries weight , accelerates , and stops ......... the only way the tire will know it is on the front is the extra turning radius @ slow speeds ....... the rear tires are made to carry more weight and have more stress introduced to them .........
 after laughing @ them ......... they call the mfg engineers ....... and then say " this guy told me that the tire bands will slip , well are supposed to" ....... i then get on my hands and knees and yell out to my
rear tire on the front of my RUNE ........... "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU DON'T YOU KNOW YOU ARE A REAR TIRE"
they are talking on the phone as i am doing this with the engineers ...... yes that was MR.TIPTON ......
asking his tire why it did not know it was on the front ........ then i stand up and ask them to ask the really smart guys ......... how come there are riders that only use the rear brake and or use heavy deceleration braking on rear tire and the bands don't slip ........ and you are going to tell me that using front braking on a front tire is harder on a front tire than using deceleration engine braking technique on the rear tire .. does friction have any thing to do with heat ? and don't heat have something to do with friction ? does this not have more to do with a tire than being on the front or rear ? ...... i would think that if you use a rear tire with the same weight rating as the front tire that it replaced that you would see what the smart guys are talking about ..... ?? they say uh uh uh ......
they always take pics and scratch their heads as they leave ......... i smile ...... shake their hand and tell them to tell the real smart guys to have a good day ..... as they show up every month to sell tires they just smile and ask do i need any tires ....... it's funny every tire mfg rep has had the same conversation with me and their R&D engineer ..... my knees are getting sore from getting down on them and yelling @ my rear tire that is on the front ..... and don't know it ....... or seem to care ...... i just can't seem to get it across to that damn stupid tire ...... that it is going in the wrong direction ......  

my bottom line experience ...... a rear tire is made to handle more stress than the front ...... and to run in a certain direction ....... why would you want to add stress to any tire ........ would you change the rotation if it was on the rear ?......... and would you ever use a rear tire application on the front that did not have a high weight and speed rating than the front tire it replaced ?? ...... the key is in that last statement ..... that never is addressed .......
if you use a rear tire that the speed and weight rating is lower than the tire you are replacing it with ..... you will see this that they "the smart" people speak of ........ no matter what direction you choose to spin it .......  but i am just a eastern NC. red neck with thousands of miles on rear tires that i have run in the front of my motorcycles .... and have installed many,many ..... rear tires on the front of many cruisers ... for many satisfied riders .... with more $$ left in their pockets ... i still try to tell those rear tires they are supposed to be reversed in rotation ...... they just don't seem to understand me ......

************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *******
disclaimer ... a must read ...... motorcycle riding is dangerous ... many fine people are killed every year due to cagers not paying attention .... or thinking that a motorcycle will get out of it's way ........ so be careful and if you are not confy with a rear tire on the front of your motorcycle ......... don't use the rear tire on the front of a motorcycle application .......... and don't ever use a less weight or speed rated rear rear tire as a front tire replacement ..................
and also next time you are getting into your car ....... look down at your front tires that have just been rotated from the rear to front and ask them if they feel ok .......... then WIZ on them.... and go home .....

[Jess Tolbirt]

here is my take, if you turn the tire backwards the water grooves in the tire will force water toward the center of the tire therfore causing hydroplaning a lot faster,, personally i would like to have the water thrown away from the tire, seems it would be a lot safer...

[R J]

Back in my earlier Motor days we used to run rear tiries on the front just for more mileage.

The bunch I run with then, we all had employer issued motors.     The original tires were run till replacement time.     All replaced tires were rear m/c tires, front and rear.     Mainly it was done for mileage, and the runee was a HD.

That was where I picked up the run a rear in revcerse on the front.   Back then, the arrow went both directions and both front and rear were the same size.    I haven't got close enough to a HD lately to see if that is still true or not.

My preferance to tires is a GoodYear TT rear at 35#, and a M/C Metzler 880 on the front with 45 to 48# of air.

You folkes could argue till the cows come home, but you will never come up with a correct tire for the front.     Same as some people will not run a c/t on the rear cause they have had nerve jerking situations with a c/t.

Same way with a grated bridge, some people will not drive across one.    That is just the way some are,    Like I don't like to climb a ladder anymore.  Don't ask why, it is just my feeling.   My son hollered, moaned and just crapped bricks the 1st time he rode a c/t.     Now he loves MGM with a c/t.  It takes some miles to get used to a c/t.

[Gavin_Sons]

Got the avon roadrider on with dynabeads and now im having a front end wobble/bounce. It even acted like it wanted to slide out from under me once. The psi is at 35. Should I up it to 40? The falken 512 feels great. Just having a problem with the front. And it is rotating the right way.

[BigAl]

I wrapped Rubber Bands around my front rim and have the largest rubber band ball on the front now.

I went with a ole solid tractor tire on the back. Filled it with antifreeze.

Now I don't know whether to call it Ball Side or Farm Ville.

[Gavin_Sons]

How do you fill a solid tire with antifreeze?

[Mr Whiskey]

I wouldn't run the front less than 42 psi. It kills the mileage!
I usually keep my 880 Metz at 45/46.
Peace, Whiskey.