clutch problem

[elpaso jo]

Guys,
can you advise, i have a 1999 valkyrie fc 1500 and i love it, however I have a problem selecting neutral and getting first gear. When i eventually get first the bike creeps forward slightly.
i have changed the brake fluid and any trapped air from the system,  but it only very slightly improved the problem.
Please can you help.
Joe

[Chrisj CMA]

First of all when you step into first gear does it mildly lurch an inch or two or can you feel a constant pulling like the clutch is enaging.  The jump forward a little bit especially when cold is normal, the second would not be normal.

How long have you had the bike?  How many miles on it? Is this a new problem?  Did it start after you did something, like put new brake pads or bleed the fluid?

If its a new problem, and you didnt do anything to help cause it then Id make darned sure there was no air in the line, (might try back filling it) check the brass bushing at the clutch lever if it looks any worn at all replace it.  If no help then it could be the dampner plate in the clutch seperating....I suspect air or the bushing though

[elpaso jo]

Thanks a million for your reply.
There is 33470 miles on the bike  and i have it just a year and I only put up about 800 miles (fair weather biker you know!!)
The bike was brought in from the USA and may have been lying up for a while, the engine oil looks perfect, but i plan to change it to morrow to see if it makes any difference.
In relation to jumping forward or creeping I would think it does both. I removed  the brake fluid through the slave cylinder and replaced it with new fluid (dot4)
basically, it is difficult to find neutral  and first gear. I should be more specific, and I need to ride it and give you a better idea of the problem
Joe

[Chrisj CMA]

Im not sure I understand what you mean about removing the fluid for the clutch through the slave cylinder.  The bleed for the clutch is under the gas tank, a chrome tube pointing up and slightly forward.  If you removed all the fluid by dismantling somthing at the rear of the engine, then I can only assume you have introduced air into the system and a proper bleeding needs to be done to rule out air as the problem.

[elpaso jo]

Yes Chris your right, That is what I meant. I used a syringe and tube by pushing it over the bleed nipple and drawing the brake fluid out, Im almost certain no air was left in the system after i replaced the fluid
Do you think if i changed the engine oil would have any effect in solving the problem.
 

[Chrisj CMA]

Changing engine oil will have no effect.  Check the brass bushing in the clutch handle, replace it if either of the holes looks out of round at all.  Its hard to understand your problem but it sounds like it was hard to find 1st and neutral from the time you got it, and changing the fluid made it no worse but no better.  Is this correct?

So if the bushing isint worn, I would still remove the master cylinder cover....suck out most of the brake fluid, then re attach your hose and syringe at the bleeder and back fill the line until the master cylinder is full....any air in the line will come out the master cylinder.  Then see what you have.

[elpaso jo]

Thank you for that Chris,
I will check the bushings to morrow and get back to you if thats ok. There is a chance i probably didnt do the bleeding correctly, I will do it again as you instructed.It is now 22 35 pm here in Ireland dark and cool.Could really do with some hot sunshine here!
I havent taken the bike out in a week

[Thunderbolt]

If you change oil, make sure you do not use energy conserving oil with friction modifiers.  I am not starting an oil thread, just don't use oil made for a car that is made to conserve energy, this may cause your clutch to actually slip.
All the Valkyries that I have ridden are a little difficult to get into neutral or first gear until you get used to the bike.

[Patrick]

How does the engage?? When you release the lever and the clutch engages smoothly then it should be OK..
I agree with Chris and would suggest taking a good look at the lever and bushing.. I also have a feeling you have air in the system,, it doesn't take much to affect it.. On a Valk I believe in working from top down.. Suck 1/2 or 3/4 of the oil out of the master cylinder and fill with new stuff[ DOT 4].. Stick some tubing on the bleeder.. Depress/pull the lever and hold.. Open bleeder.. Close bleeder.. Release lever.. Pull lever and repeat process several times.. It doesn't take very long arms to bleed this clutch.. Be careful to not get any fluid on the paint..

[elpaso jo]

Hi Patrick,
Yes thats exactly what was done as regards changing the brake fluid, however, on the other hand It was suggested that the fluid be removed via the master cylinder using a syringe and tube pumping the brake lever as you said.
As it is dark here in Ireland now I will check the bushings to morrow, fingers crossed, it is

[Patrick]

Yep,, the easiest way to get the fluid out of the cylinder reservoir is with a syringe.. Just try not to uncover the inlet port and introduce any air..  The only reason for the tubing on the bleeder is to keep from washing that end of the bike with brake fluid.. Once the air is out of the system and probably a new bushing is installed,, it'll go to shifting as it should.. The clutch doesn't engage on these monsters until it is almost completely [or nearly so] released..
If you start looking for a new bushing,, there are some from other bikes that fit and may be more available[ as well as cheaper] but I can't remember which ones they are..

[six2go #152]

That's the same symptoms mine had when the rivets were "toast".

[elpaso jo]

Thanks for all the advice Guys,Im  taking all that on board and doing those checks to day, (if it ever stops raining in Ireland)
One question, ,what do you mean by RIVETS, does that mean the the bushing at the clutch lever??
Joe

[Bone]

The clutch disc has the "grabbing" material attached to metal. Some are bonded with adhesive and some are attached with rivets. The Valkyrie uses rivets.
Clutches and brake pads can be assembled with rivets.


http://www.google.com/search?q=clutch+disc+rivets&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NagXUK3uCY-s8QS7oYHgCg&ved=0CFkQsAQ

There is a picture on this page.
http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,276190,276513

[elpaso jo]

Hi guys
I was speaking with a valkyrie owner and he said a possible cause could be  damaged or warped clutch plates.
Is this a common occurrance, and could this be the reason Im finding it difficult to find neutral and creeping slightly while in gear and the engine idling with the clutch pulled
Joe

[Ricky-D]

All the friction material on the clutch plates is bonded to the plates.

Clutch plate "B" is an assembly which is held together with rivets, with no friction material on this assembly's plates.  This assembly is generally referred to as the clutch "damper plate".

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[Patrick]

The 'rivets' have nothing to do with the lever bushing.. I asked earlier if the clutch was engaging smoothly.. The reason I asked concerned the 'rivets'.. Generally if there is a rivet problem the clutch will not engage smoothly,, rather it'll be erratic/jerky..

[elpaso jo]

Hi Patrick
The clutch does not engage smoothly,The situation is,i pull fully on the clutch lever,as i push down to engage first i have to press hard or, hit the pedal hard with my foot, if in heavy traffic to get away quick a bit of panic may happen car horns hooting etc. very frustrating.All other forward gears i can select but with a little pressure too
Now, when I park up the bike for example I like too leave it in neutral when I can get it , if I cant, i just drop the side stand and switch off the engine.
When I prepare to ride away, I reach down and get neutral by hand, still with a bit of difficulty.
I find this way giving me a better feel or with better control compare to my foot.
There is no unusual noise from the engine as Im riding, however, as i said, when i engage first, it does creep forward with a very slight pull. I hope this makes sense to you and other members.
I wish I knew more about the bikes mechanics!!

[signart]

I'm surprised none of the tech guys have inquired about your idle speed. You are going to have a hard time finding first and nuetral if your idle speed is too high. Also a lurch will occur when slammed into gear at fast idle. Just something else to ponder.

[Patrick]

OK,, thats not quite what I meant.. I'm going to assume that the clutch is not always fully engaged and that it does release even if not completely.. Is it possible to keep the bike at a stop with it in gear and the clutch disengaged?? As I understand you,, you can but the bike does want to move forward and it takes some effort to hold it still.. If this is the case,, then,, when you do release the clutch lever does the clutch continue to engage smoothly or is it jerky ??  If its jerky then it could well be a clutch problem.. If its smooth then I think its the bushing and/or air in the system..  Regardless, for now, its easy to replace that bushing and get the air out.. At least that will eliminate those possibilities quickly and cheaply..

[Ricky-D]

Are you using some kind of aftermarket foot shifter?

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[elpaso jo]

Guys
Thanks for all the advice, in relation to the question am I using an aftermarket foot shifter, no, its the original, thanks for advice, I lowered the idle speed as suggested and yes it made a big improvement, running smoothly too.
Today is the first time I took her out for a spin in a week and checked all the symptoms.
I wiil get back on the sight if it persists.
Thank you all
Joe

[Chrisj CMA]

Guys
Thanks for all the advice, in relation to the question am I using an aftermarket foot shifter, no, its the original, thanks for advice, I lowered the idle speed as suggested and yes it made a big improvement, running smoothly too.
Today is the first time I took her out for a spin in a week and checked all the symptoms.
I wiil get back on the sight if it persists.
Thank you all
Joe

What did you set the idle speed to........should not be too much less than 900 or you will have oil pressure issues

[Patrick]

Clutch lever bushing

The Honda part Number 2285-MBO-006 is $10

The Suzuki part number 59892-08A00 is $3 and exactly the same part.

Thanks to Jeff for that info..

[elpaso jo]

It was idling a fraction over 1000, spooled it down to 900 is that ok?
I changed te engine oil to spec, but it took a little over 4 quarts, looks correct on the dip stick.
Im checking the bolts on the mastercylinder to day as I was told to make sure there are no loose ones.
Weather permitting we riding to southern  Ireland mid aug to a valk fest, want my girl looking and feeling good!!

[Quicksilver]

I had a similar problem. Found I needed a new clutch lever, 20$ and a new brass bushing. Lever had play in it, kinda sloppy with the mounting hole worn oval.

[elpaso jo]

Can someone advise,
What is the correct idle speed for the \valk 1550cc when warmed up--- is 900 rpm good, or should it be around the 1000
Thank you all

[Chrisj CMA]

Can someone advise,
What is the correct idle speed for the \valk 1550cc when warmed up--- is 900 rpm good, or should it be around the 1000
Thank you all

900 is just fine....it will vary as conditions change if it goes up to 1000 thats still fine....if it varies from like 800-700 then turn it up....if it goes from like 1100-1200 then turn it down......900-1000 is perfect

[elpaso jo]

Chris,
im sorry i just found your reply to rpm s, bottom of page.
Thank you so much.
Yes I can understand now why messages and reply's are left on tech board, makes all sense of course.
Im just getting used to the way it  works. It is a wonderful site and most helpful.
 Im learning so much from you boys.
greetings from Ireland to yall.
Joe

[TOOC]

I am Joe's brother and have been working with Joe for solutions to his clutch and managed to fix it today.  I had bled the clutch master and slave cylinders in a variety of ways and only gained slight improvement in opening the clutch disk packs. I used a 50ml animal syringe and a combination of two one-way valves to pump fluid in through the bleed nipple and also draw fluid from the bleed nipple in attempts to bleed it. I made sure to tilt the reservoir so that the inlet banjo joint was lower that the reservoir so as to avoid air being trapped in the dome above the banjo joint.
The main remedy in the end was to effectively lengthen to pushrod that connects the lever to the master cylinder. This pushes the master piston further into the cylinder which displaces more fluid into the slave cylinder. I achieved the effective lengthening of the pushrod by inserting a 2mm spacer into the hole in the brass cylinder bearing in the lever that the pushrod sits into.  Initially this resulted in no free travel in the lever so I filed a little off the butt of the lever to give the lever more movement away from the handle grip.
I am assuming that pushing the master piston further into its cylinder will not damage the piston or its seals. I would be grateful if anyone had a view on this.
In bleeding the clutch several times I began to recycle the fluid and suspect that air may enter the fluid as it is piped from container to reservoir and back again. Is this possible?
Oliver

[Ricky-D]

I am assuming that pushing the master piston further into its cylinder will not damage the piston or its seals. I would be grateful if anyone had a view on this.

I cannot predict the outcome though Honda pretty much goes to the line on things, therefore I feel later on the clutch master cylinder may develop a problem due to your modification.

In bleeding the clutch several times I began to recycle the fluid and suspect that air may enter the fluid as it is piped from container to reservoir and back again. Is this possible?

It depends upon how tight the bleed screw is, and if it will let air in. I do it the same way and never had a problem. This is a great way to bleed a cylinder.

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