Valve Adjustment

[Al in AK]

I have 67,125 miles on the bike and have never had the valves adjusted. It runs great, but thought I would see what the shop price to do it was and got a quote of 3.5 hours @ $90.00 an hour. Has any one else had the need to adjust there valves ?
Thank's in advance.
Al

[R J]

Do you have any valve clatter?

If not leave it alone......

[Al in AK]

Thank you very much. I do not have any clatter, and that's my thinking, if aint broke don't fix it. It's just one of those things you think you should do since were gearing up for this trip down to America.

Al

[Kingbee]

Clatter is not the answer.  Actually clatter is safer than silent.  As the valve train ages, the clearances get smaller, possibly resulting in burnt valves.  It's time to do it, or get them done.  This isn't a matter of fixing, it's called maintenance!

[Al in AK]

OK then, I was looking in Shop Talk and checking on doing it my self.  It does not look like it would take 3 1/2 hours.
Kingbee, have you done the job yourself ?
Thank's

Al

[Dave Weaver]

Al,
  I did mine for the first time about a month ago.  It was pretty straightforward according to the manual and ShopTalk.  I think it took me around 1 hour.  Go for it yourself and should you have any troubles, we are here to help.

[Al in AK]

Thank You Dave,
I have been reading the old Tech Archive info and I do have a service manual. I will get after it in the morning. I just had a laps in judgement, as far as having a dealer do it.  
Thanks all for the imput, I'll post an update when done. I also plan on R&R the Clutch and Brake Fluids, as they have never been done either.


Al Brown

[DaveD(MI)]

Just make sure the bike has not been ridden and is cool before you start the job.


http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/carlvalve.htm

[R J]

Clatter is not the answer.  Actually clatter is safer than silent.  As the valve train ages, the clearances get smaller, possibly resulting in burnt valves.  It's time to do it, or get them done.  This isn't a matter of fixing, it's called maintenance!

Mr. Kingbee, a little assistance here........  Please........

I have 241,000 miles on MGM and only adjusted the valves 3 times......  NEVER were any of them too tight after the 1st adjustment.  Had 3 too tight from the factory, rest of the time they were within .005 to .015 off the mark, usually to wide, and I left them alone...

Last time I touched mine was at 175,000.

PS:Al in AK, there is a wire on the front that you have to be careful of when putting the right valve cover on.  Ya need to get it in behind the front belt cover and the front of the valve cover without pinching it............  I find it, pull it out, and then press it back in after the cover is on......   I use an old ice cream stick to do it........

[Al in AK]

                                                            Thank's RJ.
                                           I should of been doing this work when the yard looked like this.  

[Kingbee]

RJ, I agree they don't need constant attention, but never being done since new, is not enough attention.   It seems that, after about 30,000 miles or so, the valve train is pretty well broken in, and 50K check intervals is plenty safe.

[Ricky-D]

Clatter is not the answer.  Actually clatter is safer than silent.  As the valve train ages, the clearances get smaller, possibly resulting in burnt valves.  It's time to do it, or get them done.  This isn't a matter of fixing, it's called maintenance!

Not to cause any pissing contest, but I disagree with your hypothesis.

Please explain how you arrive at the conclusion you state.

[Ricky-D]

Do you have any valve clatter?

If not leave it alone......

My sentiments exactly!

If you purchase a car, that's not a relevant maintenance item.

Honda's are good automotive engineering products.

It's estimated that a Valkyrie will give 300k miles of trouble free riding.

Most problems encountered could probably be traced to self helpers trying to modify or make some other type of changes to their scoot.

[Kingbee]

No problem, Ricky.  It's my understanding that as the engine ages, the valve clearances can get smaller.  This is a result of minor wear-in of the camshaft, lifters & maybe rocker arms, shaft & valve stems.  Additionally, due to the constant pounding, the valves can actually pound themselves slightly deeper into the valve seats.  All this can result in the clearances being less than spec, which isn't that great to begin with.  Worse case scenario is that the clearance on one or more valves becomes zero. That can result in the valve not completely closing, resulting the burning of the valve.  My experience has been than the most adjustment is needed early in the engine's life.  After the first two scheduled checks, I haven't experienced any need for further adjustments yet.

Ya know, it's just too easy, why risk damage to these wonderful engines?

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Definately not a three hour job unless maybe an interstate model.
I've done mine three times and noticed a nice performance boost.
I agree with the interval getting larger as the miles add up,as the engine parts wear together.
Might as well change the timing belts as you will have the front cover off.

[bentwrench]

The kind of wear that causes valve clearances to decrease occur between the valve and the valve seat.Once broken in this wear occurs very slowly on our valks.normal riding causes very little wear ,but if you like to let her rev alot it will wear the seats down.I proved this over and  over with my old air cooled jap fours the valves always tightened up not loosen up,but i ran the pi$$ outa them
bw

[Al in AK]

Thanks All for the Help.

I have the valve's adjusted and covers back on.

I went thru the procedure a couple of times with out making any adjustments, just checked clearences.
The exhaust were all @ .009. The intakes were all tight any were from .002 to .005.
Went thru them all three times and have them per spec.

Does this sound right that only the intake valves would be tight?

Al Brown

[cutter]

Hmmmm....... guess I am a bad owner. I have rolled the dial to 163000+. I have never synched the carbs or pulled the valve covers. Runs great, consistant fuel milage, starts right up.  I have changed the oil once or twice...    Oh well, why change what's been working.

[Ricky-D]

Hmmmm....... guess I am a bad owner. I have rolled the dial to 163000+. I have never synched the carbs or pulled the valve covers. Runs great, consistant fuel milage, starts right up.  I have changed the oil once or twice...    Oh well, why change what's been working.

There you go!  You most likely represent the majority of Valkyrie owners that ride and enjoy.  it's a Honda!  I myself would change the oil a little more regularly but, everyone to their own.

[humshark]

I have yet to find a valve outside of spec worth adjusting.  I have taken two different Valks up through the initial 24k.  I'm thinking that i'm not going to pull the valve covers again for a VERY long time.

On the right side - I use a discarded large ziptie.  Thin and stiff enough to hold those wires out of the way!

*** Off Topic ****
Does anyone else read Ricky-D's comments with a Mex-western accent in their head when noticing his aviator?

[RLD]

These are solid lifters and as such are not like automotive lifters. The comparison with a car does not hold up as far as maintenance goes. They do need to be checked. It's not a difficult job and I usually have to tweak one or two slightly. Also, a carb sync is recommended after changing your lifters. Again, it's so easy to do, it's a no-brainer to me. You do not want to see what happens when a valve gets too tight.

3.5 hours is theft. If that's their estimate, they would never see my Valk as they no not what they speak of. Does that estimate include syncing the carbs or any other work?

To each his own of course, just my two cents.

[Al in AK]

Thank's RLD. I have the shop quote in front of me, and here our the labor hr's for each.
Check & Adjust Valves @ 3.50 hr's
Check & Adjust Carb. Syn. @ 1.50 hr's
Replace Radiator Coolant @ .50 hr's
Replace Final Drive Fluid @ .50 hr's
Replace Brake Fluid @ .50 hr's
Replace Clutch Fluid @ .50 hr's

Parts: $39.98     Labor: $630.00   Other: $15.78          Total: $685.76

I am waiting on a Twinmax to arrive for carb sync. job.

I will do everything else on the list in the mean time. I changed Oil & Filter via Wall-Mart. No Moble 1 MX4T to be found up here.

I also have my son's ( Nickster ) bike in the garage and will do the same on his bike.

The valve adjustment was really a woth while project, I'm very pleased with the outcome.

Thank's All for the imput.

Al

[RLD]

Personally, I can tell when my carb's need to be synced by the sound or feel of the motor. I usually do the valves and carb's about every 12-15k miles or once a season. It just runs smoother.

[Ken Tarver]

Does anyone else read Ricky-D's comments with a Mex-western accent in their head when noticing his aviator?





that's funny!!

[Jeff K]

The key to avoiding disaster while adjusting valves is... if any of them seem to be way out of spec... you are doing it all wrong. If they are more than a .001" or .002" off you don't have it in the correct position.

[franco6]

 :cooldude:i know am due, 50 t miles, but it runs so good! there is always manana! just glad we don t have to measure shims, that would take 3 hours!

[duckee]

AI In AK,

Twinmax are great machines at a afforable price.  I bought one about 8 years ago when I bought my Ural and it worked great for that bike.  I will use the same setup for the Valk when the carbs need synching. The Twinmax is primarily used for boxer engines such as Urals and BMWs but they can be used with any multi-cylinder configuration.  I also have a guage setup with dials and another mercury setup,  but the Twinmax is electronic, accurate, and simple to use and if I remember correctly it is also backlite .

[FLATSIX]

I thought that TWINMAX were machines to compare 2 different vacuumsources like carbs - and that they are used to do the synchronisation of 2 carbs (not valve adjustment....)

Fot synchronisation I have hesitated between different systems : 6 different vacuumgauges , or TWINMAX (2 carbs) or CARBTUNE (Morgan) for 4 carbs.

My Honda local dealer uses an electronic measuring unit style TWINMAX , but for 4 carbs. Went to him last year and paid enough to let him do the synchro. After he did it I drove back home and did not feel any driving differences.

 weeks ago I finally made my own vacuummeter with ATF-oil and 6 hoses - checked the synchronisation of all carbs and the difference between the lowest and highest level was more then 3 feet !! After a couple of hours of adjusting (now that I know the trick it wil go faster) they are all within 1/2" from each other.

The bike reacts totally different : have more power in high gears at low rpm, pulls very good and I am convinced that the mileage will improve a lot - I will check it at the first occasion.

I really do no understund how you can make a good carb synchronisation with a machine that only compares 1 carb with the mastercarb as each turning on the adjusting screw will result in a changement of practically them all. To do the job well you really need to see the whole picture all the time = all 6 vacuumreadings, or you will not be able to synchronise as it should.

With the 6 gauges who read each separately each vacuumlevel and display it I am confident it will work fine (on condition that they are all calibrated to each other) , on the 4 gauges MORGAN CARBTUNE  it will not be easy to achieve the right synchronisation because only 4 carbs are displayed....
With the carbtune I don't see how it can work at all?

Just my thoughts and experiences with synchronisation...

[Madmike]

Some people prefer "go-no-go" style feeler blades for adjusting valves.  If you use standard feeler blades everyone has their own feel for what the "right" amount of drag is for a given clearance whereas the "go-no-go" is more definitive in that on the "go" end you have no drag and there will be insufficient clearance for the "no-go" end when the valve is properly adjusted.

[duckee]

Yea the Twinmax are for synching carbs.  I have not used the device on more then 2 cylinders, but I have heard of others using the setup on 4 cyclinders with good results.  I was of the impression that AI In AK ws going to sync the carbs after the valve adjustment??

Like I said I only used the setup on BMW style engines and it did a great job.

[Madmike]

The tool that Honda talks of in their service manual is similar to the Twinmax or Morgantune.  It has 4 vacuum ports and you do 4 cylinders and then the other 2. 

I have done my bike with an electronic manometer with 2 ports and had satisfactory results.  I compared differential pressure between #3 and each of the other cylinders.  I did the settings and then went back around several times to verify.  I ran six vacuum lines and plugged the 4 that weren't in use at any one time off with golf tees.   

 

[FLATSIX]

Yes Madmike, you will be able to make do with the use of 2 or 4-way vacuummachines like twinmax or carbtune, they must be great meters but our Valk carburators are connected and I have seen with my synchronisation how difficult it was to have them all 6 equal.

I would certainly not buy a meter with only 4 readings, believe me or not but you'll need to see them all 6 at the same time and you must be able to correct/adjust them all 6. That way you are sure to make a good synchronisation.

Make your own synchro-machine - (it costs ot much, only the time to make it) fill it up with ATF - and make a synchro with it, you will be surprised of the results as I was...

[Relax]

I adjusted my valve last year and have since then had a little clatter at start up, cold engine,,,( ...yeah , i know..i should left it alone,,,there was no clatting before i adjusted )

However,,,after 20 seconds the clatter stops and everything seems fine... Should  do it again or is it okay when it jus clatter for 20 seconds when cold ?