Why is my Interstate the slowest Vakyrie ?

[CR]

I have had the 2000 Interstate for about 3 years and it has the kn airfilter, also the Cobra pipes, and I change the oil every 2000 miles. When I bought it a good local mechanic cleaned and  adjusted the carbs by the book. And also put in new sparkplugs. SO Im saying its in as good condition as possible. Now the problem is everytime I race another  Valkyrie they usually beat me by alot I mean I feel  really left behind and I have been on bikes for over 20 years so I think I know how to race. This bike sounds very nice just  moves like a tank. What can I do to give it some serious SPEED. Its ok to be beaten by a speed bike but not by another Valk all the time.

[PAVALKER]

Shouldn't worry about racing other Valkyries, or any bike.... cause there are many out there much faster.  Ride it and enjoy it for what it is.  But... if you need to keep up a bit just kick it down a gear and throttle up.  Also, there are some tips and tricks to hop em up, but it really doesn't gain that much.

That's my opinion.... and if you add five bucks to it, it might get you a coffee at Starbucks.

[Challenger]

I put a set of two brothers six-into-six pipes and K&N filter on my Std a couple of years ago and did not rejet the carbs, The bike literally slowed down above 4000 RPM. I did not want to rejet, so put the stockers back on. I know a lot of people say they didn't have to rejet when they changed pipes and that is fine. I could feel the difference and did not like it. Did you get the stock pipes with your valk?

[CR]

yes got I got the stock pipes when I  bought the bike. And I failed to mention when I had the carbs done I also had it rejeted. Thanks

[John U.]

I run stock pipes and a set modified by Mark Tobias so I am only repeating what I've heard and read, which is that Cobra pipes will cost you some horsepower.
The rejeting may or may not be helping. Were the main jets replaced, or just the needles? Or just the slow jets?

The ECT mod may give you some additional kick at the cost of using midgrade gas. There is at least one article on it in the Shop Talk section. Use the potentiometer if you decide to do the ECT mod. You can dial in the advance that way.

Other than that, I can only suggest checking for vacume leaks and running some Techron in the gas to clean things up. Ethanol doesn't take long to clog jets if the bike sits much.

[sandy]

I see you're from Miami. Maybe not, but check to see if you have a California bike. Under the swingarm will be a charcoal canister. If you do, you have milder cams and restricted carbs.

[Jabba]

My standard will EAT my IS. 

the extra 60 lbs (??) is a killer.

Jabba

[scooch]

cobra pipes rob horse power. go back to drilled stock pipes.

[Gryphon Rider]

cobra pipes rob horse power. go back to drilled stock pipes.

There are no reports that drilling stock pipes helps power; it only makes them louder.

[Fla. Jim]

cobra pipes rob horse power. go back to drilled stock pipes.

There are no reports that drilling stock pipes helps power; it only makes them louder.

Amen !!

[Hef]

The Valkyrie has so much more to offer than lightning speed. I like the power and the speed of the Valkyrie but if someone can outrun me on their bike so be it. If I wanted to have the fastest bike I would buy one of the new high-powered crotch rockets. I have a much younger buddy who has a Yamaha which the book shows has a top speed in excess of 160 mph right from the factory. Now to me that's fast. When we ride together and he wants he can leave me like I'm sitting still. Maybe it's my age, but the Valkyrie is more than satisfactory for my riding needs. Hef
 

[MarkT]

Ditto on the pipes.  Cobras reduce power compared to stock.  Most 6-into-2 pipes increase power compared to stock. ( Stock pipes are 6-into-6 - each header has it's own outlet at the piggies. ) Performance 6-into-2 pipes merge the 3 header pipes through a collector into one, and don't add a lot of backpressure via muffler baffles (like the stock pipes) to waste power.  So you then get "scavenging" as well as no power waste pushing against pressure.  And it doesn't get too lean thanks to the scavenging phenominen. Several exhausts meet this description - but they are out of production.  Except mine of course...

It doesn't hurt that you rejetted if you go to 6-into-2 pipes.  Honda made the bike too lean anyway thanks to the EPA - mixture around 17-1 at sea level.  Optimal is about 14.7-1.  So the bike will benefit from a more optimal mixture with the rejetting for Cobras, for other pipes too.

[pocobubba]

My Standard 2001 dynoed new at 93.4 max HP , 93.2 max Torque, between 13.8 & 15.4 air - fuel ratio from 2000 to 7000 rpm. I can remember while I was there they were working on another standard with Cobras , they rejetted , tried IS springs , and a bunch of adjustments , they still couldn't get as much HP as stock , I don't remember the torque but I think it was more on bottom end and a lot less on top end . I really wanted the straight pipes but that made me change me mind.

                                             Pocobubba

[Ricky-D]

Ditto on the pipes.  Cobras reduce power compared to stock.  Most 6-into-2 pipes increase power compared to stock. ( Stock pipes are 6-into-6 - each header has it's own outlet at the piggies. ) Performance 6-into-2 pipes merge the 3 header pipes through a collector into one, and don't add a lot of backpressure via muffler baffles (like the stock pipes) to waste power.  So you then get "scavenging" as well as no power waste pushing against pressure.  And it doesn't get too lean thanks to the scavenging phenominen. Several exhausts meet this description - but they are out of production.  Except mine of course...

It doesn't hurt that you rejetted if you go to 6-into-2 pipes.  Honda made the bike too lean anyway thanks to the EPA - mixture around 17-1 at sea level.  Optimal is about 14.7-1.  So the bike will benefit from a more optimal mixture with the rejetting for Cobras, for other pipes too.

That is an incorrect statement.

Gryphon Rider posted a cut away of the exhaust is this thread.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,17945.0.html

It is very easy to see that the each individual exhaust loses it's individuality prior to the front baffle in the muffler.  The "piggies" have no relationship to the exhaust coming from the individual cylinders except to say there are three "piggies" to match the quantities of cylinders serviced by the exhaust for each bank of cylinders.

***

[sugerbear]

I see you're from Miami. Maybe not, but check to see if you have a California bike. Under the swingarm will be a charcoal canister. If you do, you have milder cams and restricted carbs.

i've had both a 99 I/S 49 state and a 2k I/S california. i see and feel NO difference when i run my friend on his 99 I/S.

both will pull wheelies both got the exact same milage.

[John Schmidt]

I won't go into the exhaust aspect of your post, that's been covered enough. But.....WHY IN BLAZES ARE YOU CHANGING OIL EVERY 2,000 MILES?  You're wasting money big time. Go to a good synthetic that doesn't have the "energy conserving" labeling on it and change oil every 5-8000 miles. In fact, if you want to stick to dino oil instead of synthetic, you still don't need to change it more than every 5k. Just be sure to use a good filter each time. Dang son!

[TGViper]

I have had the 2000 Interstate for about 3 years and it has the kn airfilter, also the Cobra pipes, and I change the oil every 2000 miles. When I bought it a good local mechanic cleaned and  adjusted the carbs by the book. And also put in new sparkplugs. SO Im saying its in as good condition as possible. Now the problem is everytime I race another  Valkyrie they usually beat me by alot I mean I feel  really left behind and I have been on bikes for over 20 years so I think I know how to race. This bike sounds very nice just  moves like a tank. What can I do to give it some serious SPEED. Its ok to be beaten by a speed bike but not by another Valk all the time.

No such thing as a slow valk!  Give us some numbers and times to compare a little.  Welcome to the forum btw.

[Gryphon Rider]

Ditto on the pipes.  Cobras reduce power compared to stock.  Most 6-into-2 pipes increase power compared to stock. ( Stock pipes are 6-into-6 - each header has it's own outlet at the piggies. ) Performance 6-into-2 pipes merge the 3 header pipes through a collector into one, and don't add a lot of backpressure via muffler baffles (like the stock pipes) to waste power.  So you then get "scavenging" as well as no power waste pushing against pressure.  And it doesn't get too lean thanks to the scavenging phenominen. Several exhausts meet this description - but they are out of production.  Except mine of course...

It doesn't hurt that you rejetted if you go to 6-into-2 pipes.  Honda made the bike too lean anyway thanks to the EPA - mixture around 17-1 at sea level.  Optimal is about 14.7-1.  So the bike will benefit from a more optimal mixture with the rejetting for Cobras, for other pipes too.

That is an incorrect statement.

Gryphon Rider posted a cut away of the exhaust is this thread.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,17945.0.html

It is very easy to see that the each individual exhaust loses it's individuality prior to the front baffle in the muffler.  The "piggies" have no relationship to the exhaust coming from the individual cylinders except to say there are three "piggies" to match the quantities of cylinders serviced by the exhaust for each bank of cylinders.

***

Actually, I would defer to MarkT when it comes to descriptions of the Valkyrie exhaust.  I believe he's seen the insides of one or two sets over the years.  This sketch (drawn by someone else) doesn't show the three dividing walls that keep the exhaust flow separate for the three cylinders.


On this page at horseapple.com, MarkT has some excellent photos that should help it all become clear, although it looks like there are some small gaps that prevent perfect isolation of the three flows:
http://horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Baffle_pics/baffle_pics.html

This is one of four photos on that page:

[MarkT]

Ditto on the pipes.  Cobras reduce power compared to stock.  Most 6-into-2 pipes increase power compared to stock. ( Stock pipes are 6-into-6 - each header has it's own outlet at the piggies. ) Performance 6-into-2 pipes merge the 3 header pipes through a collector into one, and don't add a lot of backpressure via muffler baffles (like the stock pipes) to waste power.  So you then get "scavenging" as well as no power waste pushing against pressure.  And it doesn't get too lean thanks to the scavenging phenominen. Several exhausts meet this description - but they are out of production.  Except mine of course...

It doesn't hurt that you rejetted if you go to 6-into-2 pipes.  Honda made the bike too lean anyway thanks to the EPA - mixture around 17-1 at sea level.  Optimal is about 14.7-1.  So the bike will benefit from a more optimal mixture with the rejetting for Cobras, for other pipes too.

That is an incorrect statement.

Gryphon Rider posted a cut away of the exhaust is this thread.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,17945.0.html

It is very easy to see that the each individual exhaust loses it's individuality prior to the front baffle in the muffler.  The "piggies" have no relationship to the exhaust coming from the individual cylinders except to say there are three "piggies" to match the quantities of cylinders serviced by the exhaust for each bank of cylinders.

***

Yeah Ricky D I don't know what I'm talking about.  I've only built around 1200 custom exhaust systems over 13 years by modifying the stock OEM exhausts.

That picture you are referring to is a DRAWING by Luis Cajiga of Puerto Rico - who bought one of my systems the first year - 1999, by the way.  If he had drawn it accurately, it would look more like the actual insides of the stock exhaust - which I have many hundreds of these, in my metal recycle pile behind the barn.



You can read the explanation of this pic on my Tech Tips page, which I wrote a dozen years ago:

http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Baffle_pics/baffle_pics.html

No need to apologize.  It isn't ME you made look ignorant.

[MarkT]

Gryphon,

You beat me on the post button.  The small dents are from my disassembly process.  The baffles are actually a very tight fit, 98-2003 have 15 spot welds holding them in place, while 97's have 12. The dents are where I cut out the spot welds on the edges of the dividers, then pounded them in to ensure the welds were cut. The scallop on the one divider, right side (not in this picture) matches a dent Honda puts on the side of the can to match the end of the axle. The 3 pie-shaped chambers are actually pretty airtight, before I banged them up to remove them. The scalloped divider and matching dent is an example of engineering designing something, but they don't get feedback to correct design errors - the dent is not needed to clear the end of the axle, for any purpose (installation or during use). They were made that way for the entire production run. There's also a superfluous chromed screw fastened onto the right header cover that was specified by engineering, but never omitted, that serves no purpose.  There are a couple other examples of this communications feedback failing at Honda that I know of, but that's enough for now.


BTW - Here's a visual of how many pipe systems I've built - First, the baffle pile in the barn - yeah, it's messy, there's a shingle stack in front too.  2nd, the metal pile behind the barn - between these 2 piles there's about 2500 baffle sections.  Yeah, I use these metal piles regularly - for example, if you need me to repair your silencers because you drilled them out, I extract the "freeze plugs" from these intact baffles and weld them in.  There's a  lot of "piggy plates" in the big pile, for those who want to get rid of the drone from hacking off the piggies. I periodically go down and collect a bunch of them and bring them up for cleaning and shipment.  Many other uses for metal parts too...

[CajunRider]

I see you're from Miami. Maybe not, but check to see if you have a California bike. Under the swingarm will be a charcoal canister. If you do, you have milder cams and restricted carbs.

How are the carbs restricted??  I had the canister (removed now), but never noticed anything that would hinder air flow in the carbs. 

[CR]

Ok thanks to all that had  there opinion. I cant believe how everyone focused on the exhaust. Im not a racer but I guess Im going to have to live with the slowest Valk among Valks.

[Dougs2000IS]

I have 2000 valk interstate. 4 deg trigger wheel, K&N filter, Stock. Oh and true Premium 91 octane fuel non reformulated, no ethanol. I think she's fast. Oh DE-SMOGGED. And after reading this I am going to glass pack her this winter. I am happy with performance.

[Tropic traveler]

Ditto on the pipes.  Cobras reduce power compared to stock.  Most 6-into-2 pipes increase power compared to stock. ( Stock pipes are 6-into-6 - each header has it's own outlet at the piggies. ) Performance 6-into-2 pipes merge the 3 header pipes through a collector into one, and don't add a lot of backpressure via muffler baffles (like the stock pipes) to waste power.  So you then get "scavenging" as well as no power waste pushing against pressure.  And it doesn't get too lean thanks to the scavenging phenominen. Several exhausts meet this description - but they are out of production.  Except mine of course...

It doesn't hurt that you rejetted if you go to 6-into-2 pipes.  Honda made the bike too lean anyway thanks to the EPA - mixture around 17-1 at sea level.  Optimal is about 14.7-1.  So the bike will benefit from a more optimal mixture with the rejetting for Cobras, for other pipes too.

+1.
Three into one {or 4 into 1 with a V8} always helps make more power. Hot rodding 101.
When I made my glasspack mod I had those principles in mind. I only modified the exhaust because the left side had developed a nasty rattle {probably from the '97 with less welds} & was driving me nuts. When I was through with the mod I was pleasantly surprised with the mellow tone & power increase. Butt dyno only, however I think I have an accurate butt. 
Butt dyno also tells me that the wife's Cobra equipped '98 is a bit down on power. Also butt dyno says the when the Cobras left my '99 & the GPacks went on I gained more than my hearing back. Picked up a bit of power too. 
In case you couldn't tell I'm not a fan of the Cobra exhaust. It does rob a bit of power. 
Glasspacks all the way!  

[Hoser]

I won't go into the exhaust aspect of your post, that's been covered enough. But.....WHY IN BLAZES ARE YOU CHANGING OIL EVERY 2,000 MILES?  You're wasting money big time. Go to a good synthetic that doesn't have the "energy conserving" labeling on it and change oil every 5-8000 miles. In fact, if you want to stick to dino oil instead of synthetic, you still don't need to change it more than every 5k. Just be sure to use a good filter each time. Dang son!

+1, I would be changing oil almost every month at 2000 miles.  Mobil 1 15-50 and a new filter every 8000 miles has been working for me for 10 years and 107000 miles. Hoser 

[wolf]

just wanted to throw my two cents in on the exhausts. I have a97 standard with cobra 6 into 6 exhaust. have gotten it rejetted yet but there is no better sound thank my dragon running down the highway withthe six pipes rumbling I am not a young man but loud pipes do save lives. Just saying

[fudgie]

It must be a black valk. 

[wdvalk]

Yu could contact Attic rat,does great performance work

[98valk]

just wanted to throw my two cents in on the exhausts. I have a97 standard with cobra 6 into 6 exhaust. have gotten it rejetted yet but there is no better sound thank my dragon running down the highway withthe six pipes rumbling I am not a young man but loud pipes do save lives. Just saying

the sound is behind u. if loud pipes/sounds save lives 
u should have BF's quad horns installed on the front of the bike with your horn button taped down.

[bassman]

http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/dollars_per_hp.htm

[MarkT]

Ok thanks to all that had  there opinion. I cant believe how everyone focused on the exhaust. Im not a racer but I guess Im going to have to live with the slowest Valk among Valks.

From what you said in your original post, your only performance reducing detail is the Cobras.  Could be something else too, but you didn't mention it.

You don't have to live with the slowest Valk. OEM exhausts are for sale nearly continuously on ebay and other places, like the VRCC want ads, the VOA, Craig's List, and BigBikeriders, at various prices and conditions. Really nice ones can be had for around $500 or so.  Then you could regain the power lost by the Cobras, or exceed it by glasspacking the exhaust, either yourself or I can do it for you.

You may have to accept being slower than Standards and maybe Tourers - they weigh less and have nearly identical power. But you can be close if the bike is set up right.  Or you could spend lots of money and install a blower, nitrous, or other real performance mods and be the fastest.  Keep in mind, adding power in such ways generally reduces reliability and adds your own set of problems. The engine is engineered as a matched system - and if you hop it up, you need to keep the components matched.  It doesn't help to have larger-diameter headers for more flow, if you don't have the other breathing parts of the system match - like ported heads and a blower. Then you might want to have a stronger lower end, like forged pistons and connecting rods so they don't self-destruct from the greater power.  If you make it spin faster with a Dyna 3000 and it's higher rev limiter, then you'd better install stronger valve springs so you don't get valve float and pistons hitting valves.  Same issues with a hotter cam. This is an interference engine - meaning the valves and the pistons occupy the same spaces at different times - get the timing off and the engine will self-destruct. I learned long ago, the matched-system lesson - you might have the fastest Valk in town, but you'll need another one as your reliable bike - while the broke one is parked.

As for me - since I'm not made of money and don't care to give my bike Harley reliability - I'll keep my engine mostly stock so it's still reliable and if I want high performance, go buy a V-Max or Hyabusa or ZX-14. And have two reliable bikes for similar money the performance mods would have cost to make my Valk unreliable.

There may be other issues too.  But it sounds like you had a qualified mechanic set up the tune.  Since you're not the first owner, you might not know what else has been done to the bike.  Maybe a progammable ECM that's set up with the wrong profile?  Maybe an airbox mod - that was circulating on the net for awhile, and it boogers performance.  Too-tall gearing - there was a gear mod with taller gears, from Europe around 9 years ago - seriously affects acceleration, especially in the upper gears. Most of the "performance" mods at least didn't hurt performance - if so they were rejected by the community.  Polishing the intakes was one - didn't help but it didn't hurt either. You already have the IS carb springs and probably the IS ECM too. The advanced trigger wheel has it's fans - I don't know about actual measurements that prove it improved performance.  It does require higher octane gas and it doesn't help at high altitudes according to locals here in CO who tried it. There might be a couple others I'm not remembering right now.

[fantsybikr]

My standard will EAT my IS. 

the extra 60 lbs (??) is a killer.

Jabba

I'm with Jabba, my standard will do the same to my IS

[fudgie]

the sound is behind u. if loud pipes/sounds save lives 

Sooo if your in front of the bike you cannot hear it? 

[olddog1946]

just wanted to throw my two cents in on the exhausts. I have a97 standard with cobra 6 into 6 exhaust. have gotten it rejetted yet but there is no better sound thank my dragon running down the highway withthe six pipes rumbling I am not a young man but loud pipes do save lives. Just saying

I don't know how loud pipes save lives. If you are in front of the bike at speed you can't hear the pipes, being behind one, is well- a different story. I have cobras and liked the sound in town but not on the highway, so they are hanging in the carport and I'm running moded OEM pipes now.

My thoughts on loud pipes  "LOUD PIPES JUST PISS OFF THE NEIGHBORS"

[Jabba]

  "LOUD PIPES JUST PISS OFF THE NEIGHBORS"

  x 

I get REALLY annoyed when I get awakened by some small penis having loud pipe rumbling, inconsiderate asshole rolling down the road at 12:00 AM.  That applies to bikes, cars, and loud stereos.

Jabba

[Robdawg13]

Yu could contact Attic rat,does great performance work

+1000 - Attic Rat is the man if you are serious about maximizing the potential of your Valk.

[larswlvs]

Maybe ur using SLOW oil...

[fudgie]

I don't know how loud pipes save lives. If you are in front of the bike at speed you can't hear the pipes, being behind one, is well- a different story. I have cobras and liked the sound in town but not on the highway, so they are hanging in the carport and I'm running moded OEM pipes now.

My thoughts on loud pipes  "LOUD PIPES JUST PISS OFF THE NEIGHBORS"

Last summer while driving the meat wagon to the hospital I was switching lanes. Checked both mirrors, uppers and lowers, and saw nothing and started a slow drift over the left lane. Caught the sound of straight pipes in my ears and yanked it back over. I didnt see him but heard him. They saved his life that day. 

[Jabba]

I don't know how loud pipes save lives. If you are in front of the bike at speed you can't hear the pipes, being behind one, is well- a different story. I have cobras and liked the sound in town but not on the highway, so they are hanging in the carport and I'm running moded OEM pipes now.

My thoughts on loud pipes  "LOUD PIPES JUST PISS OFF THE NEIGHBORS"

Last summer while driving the meat wagon to the hospital I was switching lanes. Checked both mirrors, uppers and lowers, and saw nothing and started a slow drift over the left lane. Caught the sound of straight pipes in my ears and yanked it back over. I didnt see him but heard him. They saved his life that day. 

That is the ONLY place.   when they are next to you.  ANd that guy was sneaking around lurking in your blind spot.

You would NOT hear him coming at an intersection.

JOMO.

Quiet Jabba

Jabba