Is it me or is this Valk slow?

[old grouch]

 ???I am new to this site and to the Valk as well.  I bought a '99 Interstate about three weeks ago.  It is stock except for having the rear baffles drilled and a 4 degree trigger wheel installed and a Goodyear 205/60R-16 rear tire.  It took me awhile to get comfortable enough to open it up.  About 1K miles, but yesterday I did and was not impressed.  100 mph was the absolute top end I got, and not all that quickly, either.  I don't want to ride that fast normally, but from all I had read and heard, I expected the bike to jump out from under me when I really got on it.  Anybody have any thoughts on the subject?  Am I expecting too much?  Doing something wrong?  Thanks, old grouch

[hubcapsc]

My first test of my worn-out Valkyrie was to hold it open on an uphill straightaway
on SC hwy 11. There was plenty left when I backed off at 100.

Yours is busted.

But it is worth fixing 

-Mike

[bigvalkriefan]

Definitely something wrong. That thing needs a good going over.

[Grandpot]

???I am new to this site and to the Valk as well.  I bought a '99 Interstate about three weeks ago.  It is stock except for having the rear baffles drilled and a 4 degree trigger wheel installed and a Goodyear 205/60R-16 rear tire.  It took me awhile to get comfortable enough to open it up.  About 1K miles, but yesterday I did and was not impressed.  100 mph was the absolute top end I got, and not all that quickly, either.  I don't want to ride that fast normally, but from all I had read and heard, I expected the bike to jump out from under me when I really got on it.  Anybody have any thoughts on the subject?  Am I expecting too much?  Doing something wrong?  Thanks, old grouch

I agree, something is wrong.  The first thing to do is read through the Shop Talk page and the Archieves and get familiar with the engine.  Check for vaccuum leaks, maybe do a desmog, run some Techron or Seafoam in the gas, check the air filter, etc...  After all that you will most likely see a vast improvement.

[old grouch]

Thanks for the replies.  Forgot to mention...has been desmogged, no vacuum leaks I can find, new air filter, gets 38-40 mpg 2-up 60-70 mph, some twisties, some straight, 4500ft-8000ft altitude.  Also rpm fluctuates + - 200 at idle.  old grouch

[zcajun]

 Kinda sounds like it's stuck in about third gear try shifting to fourth and hang on for fifth.

[BOZ]

Properly running Valks don't fluctuate +/- 200 rpms at idle. Sounds to me like you have an air leak somewhere. Could be the intake gaskets, could be a vacuum leak, but likely an air/vacuum leak somewhere. Keep looking and testing.

[Daniel Meyer]

Check the petcock for proper function/blown diaphram. Check the tank vent as well.

[old grouch]

zcajun- I will try to remember to shift up to 4 & 5 .   Thanks BOZ, I will keep looking.  Would that sort of leak account for the low top end as well?

[Ricky-D]

Well, for one thing, the altitude you're at will have a definite effect on your horsepower development.

I would say the gas you are running could also be a factor.

You're weight will have little effect unless that is, you are over 300 lbs.

Tire inflation will factor in also.

Having a windshield likewise will have an effect.

You get the idea, don't you?

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I've had this one to 135 mph many times thats about all she has 



I got 167 mph out of this one and it still had some

[Master Blaster]

Valks will top out at 125-135, You can probably do better by going to redline in 4th before shifting to 5th.  Lots of things can affect the top end performance.  I would suspect probably domething to do with the fuel.  Petcock could be prime suspect along with tank vent.  Usually air leaks cause popping especally on gearing down. 

[DavRed]

Got my interstate up to 120 a month or so ago. It was still heading up when the wife started poking me in the side. My signal to slow down.... But she did get a pic of the speedo over my sholder at 120....

[old grouch]

Thanks for the advice.  I will apply any and all suggestions and see what happens.  Will report success or not in a day or so.  BTW anybody know somwbody who wants my '03 Dyna Superglide?  That is what the Valk replaced & I am trying to SELL it!     Stan

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Thanks for the advice.  I will apply any and all suggestions and see what happens.  Will report success or not in a day or so.  BTW anybody know somwbody who wants my '03 Dyna Superglide?  That is what the Valk replaced & I am trying to SELL it!     Stan

Good luck with the sale I think you're going to need it. The classifieds are full of HD's right now our local paper had a page and a half last Sunday   

[sugerbear]

make sure the air box has only 1 gasket, don't ask how i know LOL.

[alph]

wow you old grouch!  most Harley guys would love to be able to get to 100 mph!! 

just joking....

you are at a high altitude, you are getting good gas milage, i don't really have alot i could add 'cause i haven't expierenced any lack of power in mine.  sorry i can't help.

took my nephew out for a ride, got up to 90 mph in third gear on an on ramp....  he loved it!

Al. 

BTW, don't sell it yet, it's probably something stupid.  let us know what you find out!

[DavRed]

Here is the pic the wife got. Just before the poking in the side started

But the Valk was still picking up speed. Don't have a clue what happens after that...I let off like the good husband

[Thunderbolt]

and takes some off the top end.  I put a 6 degree on my 97 Tourer and it had more on the bottom but lost top end speed.  I didn't go to the top that often, so the bottom was more important.  Take the 4 degree out and it will have more top end.

[FLATSIX]

Yes, that was also what I experienced with my Valk '97 : after putting the TW 6° I lost 6 to 9 MPH in topspeed, but gained more souplesse in the middle range.

Now she goes straight up to 190-200 km/h (119-125 MPH) - before she went straight up to 200-210 km/h (125-131MPH)

As the topspeed is not that import to me (riding WITHOUT a windshield... ) I leave the TW 6° as it is.

[alph]

and takes some off the top end.  I put a 6 degree on my 97 Tourer and it had more on the bottom but lost top end speed.  I didn't go to the top that often, so the bottom was more important.  Take the 4 degree out and it will have more top end.

Alright thunderbolt and flat6, your talking about the trigger wheel on the timing belt aren’t you?  So going to a 6 degree will give you more power in lower speeds and 4 degree gives you more power on higher speeds???  What’s stock? 4 or 6?

Thanks for your knowledge.

[MP]

Neither.  The OEM.
Then, you can get an aftermarket 4 or 6 degree, to advance it that much OVER the stock timing.  What happens is at top rpm, these wheels are too much advanced, so limit power at top rpm.  At lower rpm can be good.
Some have to go to premium, some do not.
The 4 is for an interstate, as the IS is already a little more advanced than the standard.
The standard can use a 4 or a 6.
Some go to a 6, use a tuneable Dyna module, and play with it.
MP

[humshark]

So going to a 6 degree will give you more power in lower speeds and 4 degree gives you more power on higher speeds???  What’s stock? 4 or 6?

Alph!  Too bad I went and moved 11 hours away! 

Here's the deal.  Stock would be 0 degrees when we are referring to these wheels.  The bike will change advance based on a couple of things, like temperature for instance, but whatever it is, it is just that, when a STOCK WHEEL is installed.

4 degree timing wheel - Suggested for GOLD WINGS and VALKYRIE INTERSTATES  - due to their added weight and different ignition module which already advances a couple of degrees more than the STANDARD and TOURER models.

6 degree timing wheel - Suggested for the STANDARD and TOURING models of Valkyries

Both do the same job to varying degrees!    You will have a better lower "grunt" but will lose some on the top end.  Mileage improves as well.  I had a 6 degree on my standard with no trouble whatsoever, and enjoyed the "roll-on" benefits when going through those little towns in WI. 

Another option is the electronic advance modification or ETC Modification. http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/ect-mod.htm.  I performed this modification on my Interstate and LOVE it.  I don't really bother with adjusting it to varying degrees - I just like being able to turn it off when I'm creeping along in traffic.  ( turning it off lowers the RPM )

Downsides  - 1) we've covered the loss of high end on trigger wheels - ( but unless you are going to regularly run up to and beyond the 120-125mph mark, this is NOT a big concern )  *** ETC MOD is exempt from this limitation since it fades it's advance out from 3k to 3.5k RPM.
                   - 2) Advanced Timing CAN promote "pinging" "knock" - audible as well as INAUDIBLE.  Running higher octane keeps this from happening, but if you're looking to do this and have "peace of mind" you may want to just decide to run MID-GRADE or better once you do it.
                   - 3) Aftermarket Wheels are somewhat of a conversation piece here.  You'll hear "edges" and "sensors" mentioned, I've even seen scoped readings from different wheels.  It all comes down to weather or not the wheel you're putting into the Valk is a quality piece, manufactured to the strict Honda tolerances.  Some have found wheels out there that do not work as intended due to these issues.

Hope this helps!

[RLD]

rpm fluctuates + - 200 at idle

I'd double check the de-smog and look hard for a vacuum leak. These things are notorious for hoses cracking somewhere. I'd place my money on it's being a vacuum leak.

[pvan]

A stock Valk with smaller pro riders in tests tops out in the 125mph range. For those with stock Valks going faster than the small pro riders I suggest putting a GPS in your pocket as Valk speedo's are not all that accurate.

Vaccum leak as mentioned, check the fuel system, and or you may have a faulty pair valve.

[humshark]

I suggest putting a GPS in your pocket as Valk speedo's are not all that accurate.

True - but for our purposes we'll use what's in front of us!  From what's been posted, it looks like we are refering to the ol' speedo. 

Anyone that rides with a GPS knows that what pvan is saying about our speedo's is true.  ( this could be a whole 'nother post )  Wish there was an easy way to correct the speedo.  I once soldered jumpers on the back of a BMW dash to correct a speedo, and it worked PERFECTLY. 

[Duey]

http://photo.vrccservices.com/albums/userpics/10264/IgnitionCurves%20%28%29.jpg

[Thunderbolt]

Buy an OEM or original Honda timing wheel and take the 4 degree off and replace it with the OEM wheel.  Top end will increase, but you will lose a little low to mid power.  Don't attempt this if you are not sure of the procedure.  Bent valves are the result of not getting the belts on properly.

[old grouch]

Thanks once more for the advice.  What I have done so far:  checked every hose, intake connection, anything that even looks like it could leak air or vacuum and I can't find any.  No PAIR valves as the smog stuff was taken off.  If the weather cooperates I will put at least part of a tank of gas w/ Seafoam through it tomorrow.  I will also hang a GPS on there, maybe I am going faster than I think?  I had another thought which is maybe way out in the Twilight Zone, but....  If the 4 degree wheel was put on backwards, what would happen?  Would that retard the timing 4 degrees from stock?   ???

[Ricky-D]

The wheels are marked to avoid the problem of mis-installing.  If you are getting the mileage you report well, I wouldn't do anything. Just ride it!

[NCGhostrider]

Well, I figured I would offer my 2 cents worth.  My 99 I/S will still show over 120 on the speedo wth a  6 degree trigger wheel (I run super unleaded all the time).  In fact, I was out the other day, and twisted hard on take off.  I didn't power shift, and the old valk was at 95 in third as fast as my old left foot and clutch hand could get there.... I laughed because it was an effort to shift fast enough keep the old girl out of the red area!  Needless to say 100+ mph is not a problem.... however, fuel mileage over 33 is!

Even with my ECT mod (which does little good for me since we drive 70+ all the time here and I am over the rpm where it stops advancing) the 6 deg trigger wheel and the usual check of carbs, vac hoses etc. etc... my fuel mileage is at best around 30.  I have on more than once been in the low 20's, and it is not pleasant when you are in the middle of nowhere and the fuel guage is flashing empty and its 30 miles to the next hint of a gas station!

Funny thing, my first 99 I/S consistently got in the high 30's even on cross country trips at interstate speeds (85 +), but the top end was about 115 to 120 the best I remember.   I chalk my differences in fuel mileage up to slight variances in production tolerances, but I have to admit 100 mph topend seems way off... I wonder if it is actually getting full throttle?

Well, that's my 2.5 cents worth and then some!

Craig
NCGhostrider
99 Red and Black I/S

[Jim Ross]

All that everyone says is accurate.
I have a '98 Tourer with the 4 degree TW.  I get an ave of 35mpg riding 2 up.  I ride mainly in NV and ID from 2500ft to 7000ft elevations.  I run mid-grade at these elevations, when I take a trip that is closer to sea level, I go to premium fuel.
I once had a 6 deg TW installed and I got (riding solo) and honest 45mpg....when just cruising at 65 with a bunch of Gold Wings.  With the 6 deg TW, I did not hear any pinging or detonation sounds, BUT...I could never get rid of tiny carbon spots on my spark plugs...an indication that detonation was taking place...this even while running premium fuel at high elevations; that is why I took out the 6 deg TW and installed the 4 deg TW.....no more carbon specks on my plugs....a little less mpg, but safer for the engine.
Regarding top speed.....I can't say with 100% certainty, but I don't think mine will go much over 110mph, it gets there quickly though.

[old grouch]

Thanks again everybody for the info.  I have run about 1/2 tank w/ Seafoam through it and the uneven idling seems better, maybe only about 100 rpm.  Also seem to have a slight "ticking" from the valve covers, so slight I can only hear it at idle with my helmet off.  Guess I will check carb synch and vale clearances next.  Haven't tried to go fast again, but will later.  In the course of looking for vac/air leaks I found that the hose from the bottom of the air box was not connected.  The two holes in the bottom of the box were just hooked together.  Don't think that is right.  Put the drain hose back on where it goes and capped the other one.  Is that right?  Since the previous owner didn't do the de-smog right? maybe he didn't put the TW on right either?  Still curious to see if anyone knows what the result of doing that would be, from a theoetical or engineering point of view.  Thanks

[Jim Ross]

I can't speak to the hose connections, etc.; others here are better informed on that than I am.  But, if you hear a ticking that sounds like a valve lifter issue, it might not be...it could very well be a small exhaust leak between the head and the header pipe.  I had that once and it is not too uncommon in Valks with low miles.  It does sound just like a ticking valve.  Check the tightness of the nuts holding the header pipes to the engine.  Don't get too heavy-handed because you can snap off the studs,,,,just check the nuts for tightness and go easy and I bet you will find one or a few that are not as tight as the rest of them.  If this is the cause of the ticking noise, it will be a lot simpler fix than doing a full valve adjustment!

[humshark]

You're going to have quite a few things to check by the time this thread ends!

Keep running the Sea foam, don't be afraid to run a highly concentrated tank through the system.  (Full can into one tank)

Also seem to have a slight "ticking" from the valve covers, so slight I can only hear it at idle with my helmet off.

As far as this goes....  You mentioned the bike has been De-Smoged.  Depending on how the previous owner dealt with the chrome tubes that used to hook up to the pair valves, your ticking might be coming from them.

To see what I am talking about, you can locate one on the left side of the engine, rear most tube comes from underneath the block and runs just past the spark plug boot bends and ends just under the carb assembly.  It is about 3/8 inches inside diameter.  There are three of these tubes on each side of the engine.  Part of the De-Smog process involves either removing and capping or disconnecting and capping.

Simple rubber vacuum caps can be used, but they are short lived in this application.  Once they dry and crack an AUDIBLE ticking can be heard from the engine as you sit in the saddle.  I thought I had a bad exhaust valve problem, but it ended up being a cap on one of my tubes.

The simple but VERY EFFECTIVE way to isolate this is with a piece of hose held to your ear.  Place the one end of hose near where you think you are hearing the "tick" and the other end to your ear, and then proceed to move the hose end around until you isolate the closest source of the noise.

Have FUN!

[Jeff K]

Since the previous owner didn't do the de-smog right? maybe he didn't put the TW on right either?  Still curious to see if anyone knows what the result of doing that would be, from a theoetical or engineering point of view.  Thanks

The bike will not run if it is on backward. If it did start it wouldn't be drivable. Yes, I have seen it done, you would know if it was wrong.

[Willow]

A stock Valk with smaller pro riders in tests tops out in the 125mph range. For those with stock Valks going faster than the small pro riders I suggest putting a GPS in your pocket as Valk speedo's are not all that accurate.

BS

[MP]

Good job, Willow!
MP

[old grouch]

Again, Thanks for the input.  Have checked the valve adjustment and they are all right on.  Seems the Sea Foam is doing some good as the uneven idle has just about gone away.  With respect to the smog stuff- it is all gone.  No tubes, no caps, no Pair valves.  He used frost plugs in the block to seal off where the tubes went.  Tried to synch the carbs, but my vacuum gauge has gone TU.  Sice it is ONLY about 30 years old, I guess they just don't make 'em like they used to.  Guess I will get a new one and try again.  Still haven't tried to go really fast yet as it is a ways to somewher I can do that w/o too much traffic and/or officers of the law who take dim view of that sort of testing.  Jeff K - thanks for that.  Answers my ?? nicely. Once more I appreciate all you guys' input.  Will run some more Sea Foam and report back when I have done a speed run.  Stan

[pvan]

LOL...50mph prairie tail wind and you outrun a pro rider...good job Willow