1500 gold wing final drive...

[hubcapsc]

How easy is # 17 to get to Mike

I think you have to take #10 off to get to #17, and I think that is "hard"... There's a special tool, I didn't
get it.

I think Grumpy made a jig to use in place of the special tool, he's probably reading this thread.

-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

How easy is # 17 to get to Mike

I think you have to take #10 off to get to #17, and I think that is "hard"... There's a special tool, I didn't
get it.

I think Grumpy made a jig to use in place of the special tool, he's probably reading this thread.

-Mike

Bill ( Grumpy ) if you see this would you be interested in taking my final drive apart and replacing this broke item ? I'll pay shipping both ways and parts, labor. Below is what was stuck to the drain plug magnet .I'm guessing the rest of it is still inside the final drive.

[Skinhead]

I just ordered three vent caps and three seals (#32)... The final drive I'm "rebuilding" now is
the one that was on my bike when I got it five years ago. I robbed the pinion cup off of it
long ago.

Check out Oring #35. I don't remember it. I don't have it.



The Oring is also shown on page 12-12 in the manual.

I just looked at all three final drives I have here, I can't see an Oring in any of them. I can see what looks
like an Oring groove in all of them, it looks like you'd have to take that lock tab (#12) off to remove or install
an Oring in the groove I see. I've never touched #12, or the pinion cups on the other final drives.

Any ideas? Anyone know for sure they have the Oring?

-Mike

I'm about 90 % sure that # 17 is what broke in my beautiful final drive I bought years ago and after installing and a 35 mile ride I heard a noise .....When I got home I pulled the drain plug and alittle less than half of it was stuck to the drain plug magnet....How easy is # 17 to get to Mike ?


Great write up and pictures in this thread 

It looks to me like access to #17 would require removal of the pinion gear, or at least everything in front of it, which is everything but the pinion gear.

It also looks to me like the drawing is wrong, and the missing O ring #35 actually is installed behind #10 to seal the retainer and prevent oil from leaking past the threads of #10.  If Mike has a junk final drive, he might tear into it and answer those questions for us.

[Ricky-D]

#17 is the shim(s) you need to set the lash in the gears.

And yes, the 'O'-ring #35 is important and needed in the overall view of things. It will keep any lubricant from escaping the pumpkin.

***

[hubcapsc]

If Mike has a junk final drive, he might tear into it and answer those questions for us.

Until I fix em they're all junk 

There's different ways to get pinion cups off, my buddy Dan just spun mine off with his air-impact,
and put it back on that way too.

I think I'm going to do it with the special tools from honda when they get here...

 1    07924-ME40010    PINION HOLD PL 38X42
   
 1    07924-ME40020    COLLAR SET C

After you get the pinion cup off, there's more special tools (or special ingenuity) you need to get
past #10 in the picture. I hadn't planned on going there.

And yes, the 'O'-ring #35 is important and needed in the overall view of things. It will keep any lubricant from escaping the pumpkin.

So Ricky, do you remember the Oring? Is it behind #10, which would explain why I can't see it? Or in front
of #10, like the picture seems to show - which would leave me confused since I don't see it.

-Mike

[Grumpy]

I just ordered three vent caps and three seals (#32)... The final drive I'm "rebuilding" now is
the one that was on my bike when I got it five years ago. I robbed the pinion cup off of it
long ago.

Check out Oring #35. I don't remember it. I don't have it.


That o-ring goes in the case and seals item #10 the piece that holds in the pinion bearing. If you are not removing the pinion bearing, you do not need it.
The Oring is also shown on page 12-12 in the manual.

I just looked at all three final drives I have here, I can't see an Oring in any of them. I can see what looks
like an Oring groove in all of them, it looks like you'd have to take that lock tab (#12) off to remove or install
an Oring in the groove I see. I've never touched #12, or the pinion cups on the other final drives.

Any ideas? Anyone know for sure they have the Oring?

-Mike

[lee]

O-ring #35 goes on the outside of the pinion nut #10.  If you have not removed the pinion then you should not have to mess with
this o_ring.
Joe #17 is the spacer used to adjust the position of the pinion.  to replace it you have to remove the pinion.
Which is no big deal.
You don't realy need any special tools to remove the pinion nut.  Just a punch and a small hammer, don't peck on the same ear all the time.
Joe as long as there is no damage to any of the bearings from pieces of the broken shim I think you would be alright to repaire the one you have.
If you look in the parts list I think there are 4 different sizes for the shim.  So if you still have the piece from the broken one MIKE it and order
that size to go back.

After looking at your picture Joe,  have you taken that rear end apart?  17 is  shim for pinion, 19 is shim for ring gear.  Its hard to tell from
the picture which one it is.

edit:
 how that Oring could be outside the pinion bearing retainer (#10)...
35 O-ring fits in a grove on the pinion nut between the outer lip (what you see) and the threads.
The housing is smooth where the O-ring sits. Its an oil seal.  I will try to get a picture tomorrow.

[hubcapsc]

That o-ring goes in the case and seals item #10 the piece that holds in the pinion bearing. If you are not removing the pinion bearing, you do not need it.

Thanks Grumpy  

edit:

I didn't see Lee's post, maybe he made it while I was making this one... anywho... I just can't relate
to how that Oring could be outside the pinion bearing retainer (#10)...



Case cleaned up OK, not perfect, I don't think I'll paint it in case my paint is no where near
as good as theirs... I painted (prepped, primed and painted) a starter with this paint a couple of
years ago, it is pretty near the right color...



-Mike

[Grumpy]

Some of you are wondering about the o-ring on the pinion retainer, here is a pic of where it is located.
Excuse the poor quality, taken with a cell phone.

[hubcapsc]

Thanks for posting the Oring picture Grumpy... if that's the retainer tool you made, good job!

-Mike

[Grumpy]

Thanks for posting the Oring picture Grumpy... if that's the retainer tool you made, good job!

-Mike

Thanks. Yep, homemade but it works fine.  Found a chain sprocket the same size, bored it out to fit over the pinion shaft then welded inside a 1 1/8 socket so it could be used with a ratchet or torque wrench. Fits the bearing holder just fine.

[RP#62]

Thanks. Yep, homemade but it works fine.  Found a chain sprocket the same size, bored it out to fit over the pinion shaft then welded inside a 1 1/8 socket so it could be used with a ratchet or torque wrench. Fits the bearing holder just fine.

Nice.   Any specs on the sprocket - size, dimensions etc?

-RP

[Grumpy]

Thanks. Yep, homemade but it works fine.  Found a chain sprocket the same size, bored it out to fit over the pinion shaft then welded inside a 1 1/8 socket so it could be used with a ratchet or torque wrench. Fits the bearing holder just fine.

Nice.   Any specs on the sprocket - size, dimensions etc?

-RP

No, just one I had in some of my spare parts.  I will check one of the others and see if it has a size marked.

[hubcapsc]

I tore apart and cleaned up another final drive yesterday. This one was on my buddy Henry's
bike, I replaced it with one I got from a triked out bike on eBay... that was the most awesome
final drive I'd ever seen that wasn't brand new, until these ones go back together   -
I hope   ... this one sat outside (in a covered place) for a couple of years and has
surface rust on the pinion cup, but some wear down in there. I'm going to replace it. If there
wasn't wear and I wanted to use the pinion cup, is there something that would remove the
surface rust? 1500 grit sandpaper and wd40 would make the outside shine, but I'd rather just
toss it than try to mechanically remove the rust from the splines on the inside of the cup. Maybe
the surface rust isn't even relevant, its not gritty pitted rusty, just red-colored...



I'm just waiting on the seals I ordered at this point, and I'll put these two I've got apart back together.
The book sez to use "sealant" to put the cases back together... the factory used this stuff... what did
y'all use?



I think kitties learn from repetition, not yelling or scaring... this kittie already knows she'll just
get pushed away if she approaches my food...



-Mike "what? cats have technical specifications too... "

[Skinhead]

Hey Mike,

As far as surface rust in the cup goes, try this, tape off the holes and dump some toilet bowl cleaner in it and leave it sit for a while, I now this works to clean up corroded electrical connections, don't know if it will work on rust.  The other thing you might try is coke, the phosphoric acid in the coke dissolves the rust.

As far as the sealant goes, I would think any good automotive RTV sealant would work.

Cute kittie.

[hubcapsc]

As far as surface rust in the cup goes, try this, tape off the holes and dump some toilet bowl cleaner in it and leave it sit for a while, I now this works to clean up corroded electrical connections, don't know if it will work on rust.  The other thing you might try is coke, the phosphoric acid in the coke dissolves the rust.


I'll try the best idea(s) on it when I take it off... I have "wood bleach" that works wonders on Rusted Chrome,
maybe that would do it...

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,42164.0.html

-Mike

[RP#62]

If its light surface rust, vinegar will also take it off.
-RP

[Oklahoma_Valk]

 When I opened up my final drive, I peeled/scraped all of that old silicone out of there. Looked exactly like your picture. We used (in excess) yamabond liquid silicone gasket to seal it back up.

-Okie

[Grumpy]

I tore apart and cleaned up another final drive yesterday. This one was on my buddy Henry's
bike, I replaced it with one I got from a triked out bike on eBay... that was the most awesome
final drive I'd ever seen that wasn't brand new, until these ones go back together  -
I hope  ... this one sat outside (in a covered place) for a couple of years and has
surface rust on the pinion cup, but some wear down in there. I'm going to replace it. If there
wasn't wear and I wanted to use the pinion cup, is there something that would remove the
surface rust? 1500 grit sandpaper and wd40 would make the outside shine, but I'd rather just
toss it than try to mechanically remove the rust from the splines on the inside of the cup. Maybe
the surface rust isn't even relevant, its not gritty pitted rusty, just red-colored...



I'm just waiting on the seals I ordered at this point, and I'll put these two I've got apart back together.
The book sez to use "sealant" to put the cases back together... the factory used this stuff... what did
y'all use?



I think kitties learn from repetition, not yelling or scaring... this kittie already knows she'll just
get pushed away if she approaches my food...



-Mike "what? cats have technical specifications too... "

Permatex Ultra Grey, it is the same stuff the factory uses, only a thin coat is necessary, as the pieces are machined for a close fit.

[hubcapsc]

Saturday morning rolled around, and I had another cleaned-up taken-apart final drive. I went
down to the Napa store, and back around to the shop. Frank Blackwell was there, and he quickly
and expertly did the swaparoo for me with one of the presses. There's lots of stuff in the shop,
its about three times as big as you can see in this picture, more lathes all kinds of stuff. I'm
lucky to have someone right down the road who does a good job of pressing these parts in and
out, so far on-the-spot. I got Frank's email address, I'll send him this thread - thanks Frank!



Frank was painting a transmission housing or something when I got there. That pushed me over
the edge...



I cleaned the snot out of the outsides of my cases with wd40 and 1500 grit sandpaper when I was taking them
apart. Then, before painting, I used white gas (without catching on fire or blowing up   )
as a solvent to remove any traces of wd40. Hopefully my preparation was OK, and this paint is durable.
The case that is finished looks almost like Honda painted it. The color is the same, but Honda's
paint is kind of fancy, like there's metal flake in it or something. Yes, I got paint on the pinion cup, but
that one's no good anyhow.

Around in the front of the Napa store, they didn't have any Ultra Gray Permatex, but they had Ultra Black,
I got that. And a breaker bar (a long socket holder that's not a ratchet handle) to help me get
pinion cups on and off. I won't exactly understand how the Honda special tool I ordered for
pinion cup removal will work until I get it (they called me and said it would take several weeks
or a month to get it to me) but I think it somehow keeps stuff from spinning so you can remove
the nut.

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

My seals came yesterday, I can't wait to get home and pound them in with the blade of a flat-headed
screwdriver  Grumpy's pictures of how the Honda shop did that to his fork seals have been
removed, I was going to post them here...

Anywho... there's a whole bunch of if-then-else heat up the case to 180 degrees stuff in the manual
that seems kind of confusing. I found that a steel dog food can fits right into the inside lip of the
seal, so if I can get one of the old seals out without tearing it up too much, I'm going to use it + the
dog food can as a seal driver. Coat the new seal with final drive oil and seat it in. And then after I put
the ring gear/shim/bearing back into the case, check the clearance with a feeler gauge like they show in
the manual, put sealer on the case halves and the two 10mm bolts, and bolt it all back together.

If anyone thinks that sounds crazy, now's the time to speak up...

-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

-

I doubt u will need a seal driver though. And a straight razor blade will work better than a screq driver. Lol yea dont do that!!

[Grumpy]

Finally got the bearings and seals to repair my original final drive. All back together now, I did not repaint it, decided to polish it instead. Now I have a good spare for my Interstate.

[hubcapsc]

Grumpy, you're a good polisher...

I got four shiny flanged nuts at ACE as possible replacements for the four nuts that
hold the final drive on, but they might not be as studly as the Honda ones - they're
not as heavy. I bet it is important for those nuts to be really good ones... have you had any
luck finding "better looking" nuts, or polishing the Honda ones?

-Mike

[Grumpy]

Grumpy, you're a good polisher...

I got four shiny flanged nuts at ACE as possible replacements for the four nuts that
hold the final drive on, but they might not be as studly as the Honda ones - they're
not as heavy. I bet it is important for those nuts to be really good ones... have you had any
luck finding "better looking" nuts, or polishing the Honda ones?

-Mike

Nope, I hide them, I have a 2 piece drive shaft cover that covers the nuts.

[hubcapsc]

I put the final drive that was originally on my bike back together today. I thought it was
a little tricky to get the ring gear through the seal and have the ring gear bearing slip
straight, without getting cockeyed, down into its slot, but it seems good.

The real test is having it still seem good after I wear out a tire using this final drive...





Turning the shaft where the pinion cup goes feels real good  

I'm going to check with the place where I ordered the pinion cup tools, now I'm
anxious to use them!

-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Whooo. Purdy!

 

[Grumpy]

How easy is # 17 to get to Mike

I think you have to take #10 off to get to #17, and I think that is "hard"... There's a special tool, I didn't
get it.

I think Grumpy made a jig to use in place of the special tool, he's probably reading this thread.

-Mike

Bill ( Grumpy ) if you see this would you be interested in taking my final drive apart and replacing this broke item ? I'll pay shipping both ways and parts, labor. Below is what was stuck to the drain plug magnet .I'm guessing the rest of it is still inside the final drive.

Was delivered today, YOU FORGOT TO DRAIN THE OIL !     the box was wrapped in 6 garbage bags and was still leaking oil. I popped it apart, looks like the wave washer broke, found 3 more pieces inside.  On the Picture it is item #18.


I will tear it down the rest of the way tomorrow, and make sure bearings etc are ok. I have one of the washers in stock, so looks good so far.

[hubcapsc]

I got this 88 1500 wing final drive from pinwall (showed up yesterday) for $40 (plus $27 shipping)...

It would have been a giant waste of money if it was worn, but the eBay ad had a pretty good
picture, so I went for it... it looks good in person  ... 88 and 89 wings used 6 finger
flanges, but the HDL parts fiche shows the same ring gear part number... I hope it works out.

I also won, yesterday, a pinwall flange for $40 (plus $13 shipping)... it is not here yet, but
it also had a very good picture, I believe it will be OK. I should have three spare final drives
with three flanges when I'm done, I hope they are as good as the only one I've reassembled yet
seems. Three spare final drives is overkill, I need to stop this  ... I don't have any more
carcasses on-hand, so I should be safe...



This thing is on "backorder", the place I ordered it from suggests I should give up and get a refund
soon.

 1    07924-ME40010    PINION HOLD PL 38X42
   
 1    07924-ME40020    COLLAR SET C

I have a lunatic homemade solution in the works, will post a picture of it soon. I know I could brrrrp the
pinion cup on and off with an air impact, but I want to do it in a way that allows me to tighten
it back with my old beam torque wrench...

The pinion cup and drive shaft seem perfect on this thing, the pinion was filled with final
drive fluid. Seems like someone's well cared for bike was parted out... the pinion cup
is the same as ours, but not the drive shaft...



-Mike "all in good fun"

[hubcapsc]

Well, I've been off work for nine days... spent a few days doing Christmas stuff, and the rest
of it working on Carolyn's barn... until today. I tried out my "pinion cup jig", and it works...
the first test was taking the pinion cup off the last worn-out valkyrie final drive I have:



The one board keeps the flange from turning, and the board in front keeps the case from turning...
the only thing that could turn was the nut on the pinion cup 

Here's the pinion cup I took off... it is covered with surface rust, the valkyrie final drive
sat in an out-building for a few years. I dropped the pinion cup into a jar of "Wood Bleach" (oxiliac acid),
we'll see what happens.



Next I took off the nice pinion cup from the 88 wing final drive I got from Pinwheel  recently... here it
is, cleaned up with a bunch of lint on it...



Finally, I put the 88 wing pinion cup onto the refurbished final drive that was on my Valkyrie
when I got it, it is "done" now. I had to reverse the uprights on the jig to tighten, because the
case wanted to rotate in the other direction. It was easy to crank my old torque wrench up to 80,
and I put blue loctite on the threads of the pinion cup nut... this
final drive looks like new now and feels real good when you turn the pinion cup. The real test will be
when I use it for a while.





-Mike

[hubcapsc]

I called and cancelled the order for the backordered pinion cup tools yesterday... whew... I forgot
how much they cost. I really like my four old boards now  



-Mike

[amazngrace]

Mike, I have to say that "pinion cup jig" is so simple that it's
brilliant!

...ED

[Ricky-D]

Yeah, the only difference, being the force of turning the nut is now transmitted through the gears to the drive flange rather than being directly transmitted to the gear case by way of the  famous (4) studs.

Please don't take this as criticism because it is not.

Additionally, I feel using a conventional torque wrench is proper under these circumstances as opposed to a powered impact wrench.

You sure have a lot of rear end differential parts now. Are you gonna start a rebuild business? You sure could!

***

[hubcapsc]

Yeah, the only difference, being the force of turning the nut is now transmitted through the gears to the drive flange rather than being directly transmitted to the gear case by way of the  famous (4) studs.

Please don't take this as criticism because it is not.

No offense taken... I'm pretty sure, though, there's nothing in a usable Valkyrie's final
drive that can be hurt by 1 Mike power... that's a beater flange in that board, I drilled
the holes for the flange fingers, they're pretty close to the same size as the fingers,
and I had to pound the flange into the board... it would be hard to get the flange off
the board. Those brown boards are really hard/strong boards made out of some kind
of heavy stable wood from South America.

You sure have a lot of rear end differential parts now. Are you gonna start a rebuild business? You sure could!

I wish I knew something constructive to do with the 1500 wing carcases and pile of worn pressed-out Valkyrie
splines... and I'll have up to four good Valkyrie finals (including the one on my bike) when I'm done. It remains to
be seen whether or not my refurbishment efforts actually turn worn final drives into good ones, but the one that
I just finished seems perfect...

-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

This is a great tech thread     Bill fixed my my final drive that I snapped the " wave washer " on . Pretty cool seeing the progress you have made with these Wing parts.....Good job Mike   

[hubcapsc]

Before:



After:



I left the pinion cup in the oxiliac acid bath for four or five days, I kind of forgot about it. It was coated
with a thick viscous goo when I removed it. I cleaned it up with paper towels, q-tips and wd40.

I wonder if I should wipe it down and coat it in baking soda or something to neutralize it...?

-Mike

[Oklahoma_Valk]

Dissolve some baking soda in water, and pour over the part. That would take care of any nasty acid residue.

Looks great!

[Grumpy]

Here is what I use to remove rust and corrosion , absolutely safe to use and does a great job.

http://www.evaporust.com/evaporust.html

 

[hubcapsc]

Oklahoma_valk:
Dissolve some baking soda in water, and pour over the part. That would take care of any nasty acid residue.

That's probably a good suggestion, but I can't bring myself to dunk it in water after all that   ...

I googled for "household bases" which lead me to read the MSDS for this Tide detergent - it has a PH of around
8, so I coated the pinion cup with Tide and "worked it in", it seems good now...



Grumpy:
Here is what I use to remove rust and corrosion , absolutely safe to use and does a great job.

http://www.evaporust.com/evaporust.html

That seems like the bomb... not only is oxiliac acid acidic, it sez right on the bottle that it is
poison and ingestion will result in death... I hate messing with stuff (like radiator coolant) that
would kill my cats or dog if they somehow got into it...

-Mike

[Westsider]

This guy Eric is trying to help a brother out after suffering a stroke, said he has 3-4 sets to sell if anyone wants one to give him a shout at 678-644-6760.

Paul.