fuel petcocks

[Hoser]

I would like to know the brands of aftermarket fuel petcocks that will fit the Valkyrie.  Hoser

[wilmont kid]

I just bought a Pingle on e-bay. I like to keep things simple(no vacuum activation). Anyway Pingles are a very nice product but you pay for that. I used one on a XR 750 street tracker and they are gorgeous. The one that fits a Valkyrie also fits HD. They do list the Valkyrie on their web site so it should fit. Haven't installed it yet. Why are you thinking about a switch from stock?    Jeff

[fudgie]

Why are you thinking about a switch from stock?    Jeff

Why not?!  Pingel is the way to go. 

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Another satisfied Pingel owner.
I balked at the price originally,but it's a high quality,well made replacement.
 

[KCvalk]

drag specialities has a model for about $20 that works for me.    DS-390219  is the 90 degree model.

its a little stiff when turning but works with stock filter and looks good chromed and so for has not cause me any problems

[Hoser]

I just bought a Pingle on e-bay. I like to keep things simple(no vacuum activation). Anyway Pingles are a very nice product but you pay for that. I used one on a XR 750 street tracker and they are gorgeous. The one that fits a Valkyrie also fits HD. They do list the Valkyrie on their web site so it should fit. Haven't installed it yet. Why are you thinking about a switch from stock?    Jeff

Samo samo, stock won't stop fuel flow,  I also don't care about the vacumn tube,  I always turn it off, been doing it for 30+ years.  Do I just plug the vacumn line?  Hoser

[BonS]

I just bought a Pingle on e-bay. I like to keep things simple(no vacuum activation). Anyway Pingles are a very nice product but you pay for that. I used one on a XR 750 street tracker and they are gorgeous. The one that fits a Valkyrie also fits HD. They do list the Valkyrie on their web site so it should fit. Haven't installed it yet. Why are you thinking about a switch from stock?    Jeff

Samo samo, stock won't stop fuel flow,  I also don't care about the vacumn tube,  I always turn it off, been doing it for 30+ years.  Do I just plug the vacumn line?  Hoser

Just plug 'er up. I pulled the line off and put a cap on cylinder #6 which is where the vacuum line ties in.

[Tundra]

BonS, If I understand correctly, it is only the diaphram and vaccuum part of the stock petcock that fails...correct? So, if you remove the vaccuum and plug it you now have a mechanical valve, correct? So this should fix the petcock problem? or does the mechanical shut off leak also on the stock setup? My real question is, If it's this easy to fix the leaky petcock, why do so many switch to Pingle? I've rebuilt mine with the cover kit, only cause of all the fuss here about them. I just don't like the "look" of the pingle. UGLY, and leaves that hole exposed.

[rmrc51]

I also went over to the Pingel (non vacuum) after I rebuilt the stock petcock and she developed a slow leak. The Pingel is suppose to have a higher flow rate. Notice I said "suppose" to have.

I really don't mind reaching under the tank to access it but for those of you who switch to your reserve while riding, I highly doubt that you'll be able to do that with the Pingel unless you have arms the same length as an Orangutan. And,, from what I can see your reserve is a little less that the stock petcock. Both of these issues are minor points to me.

Tundra does have a pretty good idea regarding converting the stock petcock to a non-vacuum unit. Has anyone done this?

[BonS]

BonS, If I understand correctly, it is only the diaphram and vaccuum part of the stock petcock that fails...correct? So, if you remove the vaccuum and plug it you now have a mechanical valve, correct? So this should fix the petcock problem? or does the mechanical shut off leak also on the stock setup? My real question is, If it's this easy to fix the leaky petcock, why do so many switch to Pingle? I've rebuilt mine with the cover kit, only cause of all the fuss here about them. I just don't like the "look" of the pingle. UGLY, and leaves that hole exposed.

When working properly the OEM petcock will not flow without vacuum so simply disconnecting the vacuum line won't work. When bad, the OEM petcock leaks fuel to the carbs when no vacuum is applied, i.e., the engine is off. Rebuilding the OEM petcock is fine but leaves you with the future possibility of another failure and the dreaded hydro-lock situation. I don't have any problem reaching the Pingle while riding and remaining seated although it will never be as easy as the OEM unit. I can't say that I'm bothered by the look of the Pingle or lack of the big round fuel OEM fuel switch. Rumor has it that someone (?) will make a cover for the area that dresses things back up but it will have to leave access to the valve.

[MP]

I see Hoser solved the "hole" problem by mounting a chrome air horn there!  Great idea, as long as can reach the Pingle behind it.
MP

[Kingbee]

Do a search for the Dan-Mark electric fuel valve.  You can use it without doing anything to the petcock, but that would still leave you vulnerable to a diaphram failure leaking fuel down the vac line to #6.
I go inside the "cover set" and move the spring to the other side of the diaphram, so I can then eliminate the vacuum line.  Still gives you all the manual functions of the petcock, and the Dan Marc does the day-to-day chores.  Totally stock look and feel, better-than-stock function.

My fuel-injected bikes don't even have petcocks anymore, so it could be too easy for me to forget on the Valk.

http://www.dan-marc.com/79-afc11112.html

[98valk]

Tundra does have a pretty good idea regarding converting the stock petcock to a non-vacuum unit. Has anyone done this?

http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/howto/tankvalve/tankvalve.html

[98valk]

but that would still leave you vulnerable to a diaphram failure leaking fuel down the vac line to #6.

That cannot happen, if it did fuel would be coming out the vent hole of the petcock.
The vacuum diaphram wears out from the constant vibration, the fuel side diaphram never wears out.
If one installs a snubber in the vacumm line to the petcock the diaphram will take a very long time maybe never to wear out. I posted all of this info about 1-2 months ago.
I have also posted numerous times that the hydro lock is caused by the vent tubes of the carbs as documented by honda for the GL1500. I have posted this info also a few times.

[Rocketman]

I have also posted numerous times that the hydro lock is caused by the vent tubes of the carbs as documented by honda for the GL1200. I have posted this info also a few times.

Lost me on this one.  Which tubes?

I really don't mind reaching under the tank to access it but for those of you who switch to your reserve while riding, I highly doubt that you'll be able to do that with the Pingel unless you have arms the same length as an Orangutan.

It's really not that tough, once you get used to it.  Once you develop the muscle memory of where it is, it's automatic.

[98valk]

That should have been GL1500 not gl1200.


Re: Another hydrolock question

Posted By: 98valk <fitness7days@nospam.juno.com>
Date: 9/4/2008 at 12:30:31

In Response To: Another hydrolock question (G-Man (Gary in NY))

this is from Rider mag sept 1988 about the '88 goldwing Gl1500.
they had the hydro-lock problem and it turned out to be the bowl vent hose was sagging. "the low spotfills with gas and prevents air circulation, much like a sink trap. without a connection to atmosphere, the float bowls pressurize and raw fuel is forced up and out of the carbs through the needle jet. From there gravity takes the fuel down the intake runners. if that cylinder has an open intake valve, hydrolock." "The article states that honda issued a Product Update kit on a fix in feb of that yr which included a metal air-vent pipe and a vacuum fuel valve."
Looking at the service manual pics in the carb section it shows the vent hoses as straight sections just laying loosely on top of other hoses. My 98's vent hoses have a 90 degree end. the end is installed into holes in the rear carb support frame.
So this might be the reason and cause of the problem for some bikes.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/forum/vrcc_tech.cgi?noframes;read=1274246

[Rocketman]

they had the hydro-lock problem and it turned out to be the bowl vent hose was sagging. "the low spotfills with gas and prevents air circulation, much like a sink trap. without a connection to atmosphere, the float bowls pressurize and raw fuel is forced up and out of the carbs through the needle jet. From there gravity takes the fuel down the intake runners. if that cylinder has an open intake valve, hydrolock."

What pressurizes the float bowls?  If it's fuel down the normal path from the tank, then the needle valves AND the petcock are leaking.
Should the vent hose dump that gasoline before it finds its way up the jets and down the intake runners?  (honest question, I can't recall how the vent tubes tie into the whole picture here)
If so, that's cheap insurance against a lock.

However, I've watched carbs leak fuel when sitting on a bench, with no vent tubes installed.  That ought to have been sufficient, then.

[98valk]

they are not super clear in the article esp. since I think those bikes have a fuel pump, in our case it would have to be the head pressure in the line or which I think is a more likely case is that the heat from an engine after it is shut off will expand the fuel in the bowls and lines. If the vent line has a trap in it like they describe, the expanding fuel will want to go somewhere. Just like gravity plumbing drains have a slope and no traps, vent lines need to be installed in the same way.

[BonS]

I see Hoser solved the "hole" problem by mounting a chrome air horn there!  Great idea, as long as can reach the Pingle behind it.
MP

I'm doing the same thing right now after seeing Hoser's installation. The Harbor Freight Chrome Wolo Bad Boy air horn fills the space perfectly. While holding the horn in place and planning the short attachment bar needed for mounting I'm sure that I can get my fingers in the remaining space for the Pingle. No hole!

[Rocketman]

they are not super clear in the article esp. since I think those bikes have a fuel pump, in our case it would have to be the head pressure in the line

What do you mean by this?  Pressure coming down the fuel line from the petcock?  Unless there's some point for air to get into that line, the fuel will stay put in the line.  Just like a straw when you hold your finger over the end of it.

or which I think is a more likely case is that the heat from an engine after it is shut off will expand the fuel in the bowls and lines. If the vent line has a trap in it like they describe, the expanding fuel will want to go somewhere. Just like gravity plumbing drains have a slope and no traps, vent lines need to be installed in the same way.

I follow you on it not having anywhere to go, I just don't follow you on why it would need somewhere to go if it wasn't being fed more fuel from the petcock.  At some point I'll do the math, but I don't see residual heating being enough of a factor.  The carbs are already as hot as they're going to get while the engine's running.  As you burn fuel, more (cooler) fuel flows into the carb bowls.  However, most of that fuel is already at carb temp.  Only a little of it is being heated up, and it can't be heated up much.  The carbs are warm, but not anywhere near the ~200 of inside the engine.
[edit]:
OK, I looked up the numbers.  Let's call it a 50 degree (F) differential.  Estimating how much fuel was in the carb bowls gave me ~1 ounce in each carb bowl.  Expansion (if you use the entire bowlful, which is VERY conservative) over 75 deg. F (estimation) creates an additional 0.04 ounces.  Not a whole lot.  The displacement divided by 6 cylinders shows 8 ounces per cylinder.  Even if the whole carb bowlful got dumped, it shouldn't lock.
Conclusion:
It needs a source of fuel above the carb bowl to hydrolock.

[98valk]

What do you mean by this?  Pressure coming down the fuel line from the petcock?  Unless there's some point for air to get into that line, the fuel will stay put in the line.  Just like a straw when you hold your finger over the end of it.

I'm just trying to put pieces together from the article myself. I agree with your points and your perspective. How many ounces in the fuel lines, how much could be siponed from the other carb bank, etc.?
The carbs will be cooler with the bike moving, airflow, when the bike is shut off all of that engine heat will raise and be absorbed by the carbs. If u ever had a carb'd car u might remember an event called vapor lock after a car sat sitting.
I still believe it could easliy be the carb bowls not venting, unless a lot of float seats are failing, and if that was the case the bike would be running rich. Each inlet to the carb bowl has a fine screen filter, plus the petcock filter, I don't see dirt being the problem.
After reading for yrs the different hydro-lock reports, it is always after the bike sat for awhile after running. A clogged vent line, bugs, or the dip like honda reported, all will stop venting.

[Hoser]

I see Hoser solved the "hole" problem by mounting a chrome air horn there!  Great idea, as long as can reach the Pingle behind it.
MP

I'm doing the same thing right now after seeing Hoser's installation. The Harbor Freight Chrome Wolo Bad Boy air horn fills the space perfectly. While holding the horn in place and planning the short attachment bar needed for mounting I'm sure that I can get my fingers in the remaining space for the Pingle. No hole!

Here's a pic  Hoser

[Ghillie]

MAN I LOVE THAT LAST POST, after having read so much about the dangers of hydrolock, good to know that there is a definitive mechanical solution to the problem.

[sheets]

Although my five year old Pingel valve is leaking, I LIKE it!  Quality chrome piece of hardware.  I saw an Orange County Chopper a couple weeks ago.  They use the same Pingel gas valve.  I have an aftermarket bracket that puts the OEM horn in the place where the OEM pet rooster valve selection handle was bolted on.  The relocated horn looks like it should have been there all along . . . and can still easily reach the Pingel valve under the tank.  I'll send my Pingel back to be repaired and reinstall.   

[Rocketman]

I'm just trying to put pieces together from the article myself. I agree with your points and your perspective. How many ounces in the fuel lines, how much could be siponed from the other carb bank, etc.?

Yeah, they never seem to give you enough information in an article to properly analyze their conclusions.  You wonder if they're just not including an important point that would convince you that they're right.
In this case, I'm having a hard time believing the article.  You'd have to pull all the fuel from all six carbs, plus all the fuel in the line in order to fill the cylinder.  Not sure how that would happen.  Granted, you don't have to FILL it, but still...

The carbs will be cooler with the bike moving, airflow, when the bike is shut off all of that engine heat will raise and be absorbed by the carbs. If u ever had a carb'd car u might remember an event called vapor lock after a car sat sitting.

Vapor lock is very different than hydrolock.  That was fuel turning from liquid to gas in the fuel line.  This is fuel getting into places it shouldn't (at least shouldn't when parked).

I still believe it could easliy be the carb bowls not venting, unless a lot of float seats are failing, and if that was the case the bike would be running rich. Each inlet to the carb bowl has a fine screen filter, plus the petcock filter, I don't see dirt being the problem.
After reading for yrs the different hydro-lock reports, it is always after the bike sat for awhile after running. A clogged vent line, bugs, or the dip like honda reported, all will stop venting.

I can see some crap getting through the two filters, since some of that is very fine.  It wouldn't have to be a very big leak, it would just take longer for that leak to cause a hydrolock after parking.  If it was a small leak, it would just simulate the normal fuel flow, rather than making it run rich.
As for happening after it's been sitting:  The longer the bike sits, the more fuel can drip through the leaky petcock.
If it's heating (with lack of venting), I would be surprised if the carbs didn't hit peak temp very soon after parking.  I also would be surprised if that peak was significantly higher than the operational steady state.

I apologize if I'm coming across too strongly on this.  I've had more experience with hydrolocks than I ever wanted, so therefore, I've spent a lot of time pondering on it.
Hydrolock is a rare occurance, but it's a high cost in money and time.  Therefore, it's important to get this ironed out.  I had three hydrolocks until I fixed a leaky petcock (replaced it, actually), and replaced the carbs that were leaking through the needle valves (we set them up on a bench with a free-flow fuel reservoir, and watched fuel drip out the intakes).  After those replacements, the problem went away. 

Mark

[John U.]

I also think this thread is getting into important info. I haven't had a hydrolock and with some help from you guys who have read and thought a lot on the subject maybe some of us will be spared.
A problem with the petcock is understandable. I've done the cover set replacement and installed vacume snubbers on my bikes as suggested by CA Exhaust Coatings, thanks again for the idea. I also installed fuel filters after seeing the sediment in the float bowls. I agree that a small particle can cause a slow leak in the float valve, which over time could be enough.
It seems to me that a hydrolock only requires somewhat more fuel in a cylinder than the cylinder's volume at TDC. That's a lot less than filling the whole displacement of the cylinder.
I don't know what to make of the sagging vent tube warning.
The wing has a different carb setup, so is there a modification to solve this or will closing the petcock a half mile from shut down do the job?

[Rocketman]

It seems to me that a hydrolock only requires somewhat more fuel in a cylinder than the cylinder's volume at TDC. That's a lot less than filling the whole displacement of the cylinder.
I don't know what to make of the sagging vent tube warning.
The wing has a different carb setup, so is there a modification to solve this or will closing the petcock a half mile from shut down do the job?

Very true on the volume at TDC.  That is the volume I should have used.  Does anyone know what that volume is?
I'm not familiar enough with the wing carb setup to comment.  I always shut mine down somewhere between 1 mile from home, and sitting in the garage poised to shut 'er off.  Of course, if the petcock is leaking through "off", it won't help.  I have been known to forget to turn it back on, and that's my sanity check of whether it's leaking through off (at least if it's got a significant leak).  If I get to my destination, and it's still off, and I didn't notice, I've got a serious leak.  If it sputters soon after leaving home, I don't.

Mark