Starting problem

[MarkT]

Deerslayer has become hard to start.  And more "cold blooded".  Unless the engine is still warm, it pretty much always wants the choke on to start.  Starting procedure has become, push on choke fully.  Switch off extra accessories - spots, amplifier.  Fuel & ignition on.  crack throttle.  Crank - when it fires, which is immediately, open the throttle more to spin engine up around 3,000 and keep it there for 10 seconds or so.  Then let it slow down, but not too much because if it dies - it will be near impossible to get it to fire again.  I hate to run the engine up like this when it's cold, but if I don't, the following happens:

If I don't get it to spin up - it will die and then won't fire except it might right when I release the starter button - then die immediately.  If I can get it to fire more than one cylinder - it is nearly impossible to get it to speed up - open the throttle at all and it dies.  All of this with a fully charged battery.  Have digital voltmeter as onboard instrument - always indicates over 14v when running.  It's likely I won't be able to get it to start before the battery has been drained by attempting to start it.  It might help to pause between attempts for 10 seconds or so - for some reason the gas vapor becomes more volatile with such a pause.  My Honda lawn tractor does that - crank it with full choke for 10 seconds.  Turn the key off and wait 10 seconds.  Try it again and it is likely to start (unless it's really cold, then might take 2-3 more similar tries, or using a more pronounced choke action with a rag held over the intake).

Once it's running for a minute or so - it runs normally, has the power it always has.  The plugs were replaced recently - maybe 2000 miles ago.  Valves adjusted recently - maybe 5,000 miles ago.  BTW, it had this same behavior, and adjusting the valves made it much better - several were too tight, indicating they weren't seating fully.  But now I don't believe they are out of spec.  Plug reading when I changed them - very good burn, and mixture appeared dead on.  I have not sync'd the carbs for over 50,000 miles and many years - but when I did way back when, they were already in sync. The valve belts are due to be changed on the maintenance schedule and I have them on hand - but I'm not thinking that's the problem - e.g., that the valve timing could be off due to belt skip or stretch - but that's just my opinion.  I have not pulled the carbs and rebuilt them, and have not run SeaFoam or other solvent products through them, or added to the gas.  Inspecting the choke linkage, the choke cables are moving through their full range - well at least the left side is, observed it's movement while I was working on something else and had the linkage cover off.  Didn't check the right side.  I can do that, but I don't suspect a problem with the choke.

The bike has no engine mods - just my better-breathing exhaust and a K&N filter sans pre-filter.  These are not new changes - has run great with them for 80,000 miles or so.

Any ideas?  Have you had this problem?

Thanks!

[R J]

Mark try jumping it with a non running car battery.

It sounds like even though the battery sauys 12.0 Volts, it is kind of trying to go South.

MGM pulled that stunt on me 3 winters ago, slapped a new battery in and it starts like a breeze now.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[Michvalk]

Battery

[Ricky-D]

Yep, the battery is not up to the task anymore.



***

[Patrick]

The engine firing/starting upon button release is classic sign of a weak battery. Measuring voltage while cranking should confirm the battery condition as voltage shouldn't drop below 10.5.
However the engine not staying running concerns me also. If its quite cold I can understand that. But if its still somewhat warm it should stay running. So, that gets me to wondering about the petcock. Is it a vacuum unit ?
I was first wondering about the choke adjustment, but, if one side is working correctly probably the other side is too.

[MarkT]

The engine firing/starting upon button release is classic sign of a weak battery. Measuring voltage while cranking should confirm the battery condition as voltage shouldn't drop below 10.5.
However the engine not staying running concerns me also. If its quite cold I can understand that. But if its still somewhat warm it should stay running. So, that gets me to wondering about the petcock. Is it a vacuum unit ?
I was first wondering about the choke adjustment, but, if one side is working correctly probably the other side is too.

Thx.  It might be more than one problem.  But I don't think petcock is it, because this behavior happens the next time I start it, after it was shut off.  That is, the carb bowls are full of gas, and it takes about a mile of running with fuel off, to drain them.  UNLESS - they aren't full, due to marginal fuel delivery.  But I've seen no fuel starvation issues.  Also - my anti-hijack fuel shutoff I installed shows me The carbs have normal fuel quantity in them, when I forget to activate it and she sputters a mile down the road every time I forget.  I didn't watch the voltmeter while cranking.  Not sure I can with that voltmeter as it has a short delay.  I'll watch it next time.  Or plug in a multimeter.  Also pull the cover off the rt side choke linkage and check it.

[Chrisj CMA]

If it hasnt been desmogged, check all the vacuum prts (plugged and lines) also check the intake clamp screwes, there are 18 of them but the upper 6 are not typically loose just the 12 you can get to without removing the tank

[MarkT]

If it hasnt been desmogged, check all the vacuum prts (plugged and lines) also check the intake clamp screwes, there are 18 of them but the upper 6 are not typically loose just the 12 you can get to without removing the tank

Thx Chris.  Forgot to mention it has been desmogged.  I have never done anything with the intake clamps tubes etc.  Other than removing the airbox a couple times.

[MarkT]

Mark try jumping it with a non running car battery.

It sounds like even though the battery sauys 12.0 Volts, it is kind of trying to go South.

MGM pulled that stunt on me 3 winters ago, slapped a new battery in and it starts like a breeze now.

Good luck and happy hunting.

RJ Thx.  I'll check the battery that may be contributing. I didn't report the static battery volts - have to check that with separate meter.  It bothers me it won't stay running at low speed until warmed some - that seems like a fuel management or compression issue.  Could even be ECM but rather focus on most likely and easiest / cheapest first.

[R J]

Mark try jumping it with a non running car battery.

It sounds like even though the battery sauys 12.0 Volts, it is kind of trying to go South.

MGM pulled that stunt on me 3 winters ago, slapped a new battery in and it starts like a breeze now.

Good luck and happy hunting.

RJ Thx.  I'll check the battery that may be contributing. I didn't report the static battery volts - have to check that with separate meter.  It bothers me it won't stay running at low speed until warmed some - that seems like a fuel management or compression issue.  Could even be ECM but rather focus on most likely and easiest / cheapest first.

Mark, just got back from my kid's shop.  Mom Toyota Highlander died in my garage.   Got it stated, checked it and if said we had a weak or bad cell.    Slapped in a new Delco and turned the old one in for core.     The place we get out batteries from does a internal diagnose, they cut em open and have a look see.      1st question he had was has this vehicle been in an accident, said yup, she hit a deer last spring.    He said I'll bet ya 100 to 1 that accident put the hurt on this battery.    Said ok and went on down the road.   Strange things happen I think, with no real rhyme or reason.

[Chrisj CMA]

If it hasnt been desmogged, check all the vacuum prts (plugged and lines) also check the intake clamp screwes, there are 18 of them but the upper 6 are not typically loose just the 12 you can get to without removing the tank

Thx Chris.  Forgot to mention it has been desmogged.  I have never done anything with the intake clamps tubes etc.  Other than removing the airbox a couple times.

I dont know, so Ill ask...What happenes with the vacuum nipples on a desmogged Valk?  If they get rubber caps liek the unused ones on a stock Valkyrie, they can cause major starting/running issues if they are dry rotted. 

THem intake tubes will be scary loose if you havent ever done it

[MarkT]

If it hasnt been desmogged, check all the vacuum prts (plugged and lines) also check the intake clamp screwes, there are 18 of them but the upper 6 are not typically loose just the 12 you can get to without removing the tank

Thx Chris.  Forgot to mention it has been desmogged.  I have never done anything with the intake clamps tubes etc.  Other than removing the airbox a couple times.

I dont know, so Ill ask...What happenes with the vacuum nipples on a desmogged Valk?  If they get rubber caps liek the unused ones on a stock Valkyrie, they can cause major starting/running issues if they are dry rotted.  

THem intake tubes will be scary loose if you havent ever done it

Not on mine I sealed the vacuum nipples except 1.  I have to replace them to do a carb sync.

I'm not clear why the intake tubes tightness makes any difference.  Upstream of the carbs, right?  So how would that affect mixture or cause a vacuum leak? Does it?  How and why?

[Firefighter]

Make sure you have good ingition ground and voltage. Use a volt meter, and check battery voltage at battery, then at the bike frame. Make sure there is a good ground and battery voltage at the frame where the ingition gets its ground. In other words between battery post, and then post to frame should be the same. If ground at frame is bad and ing voltage is low engine will run bad, or not at all. Battery ground wire attaches to engine block. Block has to ground to frame also. I had a problem and could not find a bad ground,, ended up running a new ground wire from battery negative to bike frame, that fixed mine. Good luck!