1,3 and 5 are not running (Fixed the problem)

[JimL]

I'm stumped.  I've been looking at this now for about 3 weeks and have run out of ideas.  I have discussed the issue with 3 pretty darn good Valkyrie mechanics and they too have run out of ideas.  Time to up it up for discussion.  Here is the story:

I took the bike on a trip from Naples up into central Florida to meet up with Valkahuna.  The bike never ran better.  I brought it home and parked it for 3 weeks.  I went to start it and it ran HORRIBLE.  I noticed that the vacuum hose going to #3 carb was torn and immediately thought that my problem was solved.  WRONG.  Crazyhorse (Mac McCain) and I did a desmog on the bike.  Nothing.  I then pulled the carbs to make sure that the slow jets were not clogged.  Clean as a whistle.  Replaced the ICM.  Nothing.  The problem appears to be only on the right side with 1,3 and 5 cylinders.  

When I get the bike started it runs really rough and exhaust only appears from the left side.  The exhaust pipes on the right side are cold to the touch.  The firing on the right side seems to be ok because Crazyhorse and I pulled each plug on the right side and verified that it is firing when running.  We also drained the carbs on the right side to verify that they are getting fuel.  I have dismissed the ignition coils because the problem only appears to be on one side, and to my understanding each of the 3 coils fires one plug on each side.

At this point, I have no other ideas, any suggestions from those smarter than me would be greatly appreciated.  

[3W-lonerider]

had the same issue with a bike a few years ago.. tore the carbs apart 3 times to verify the slow jets wer'nt plugged i could see right threw them. turns out it was the slow jets. and like you it was the right side only.

[JimL]

Interesting.  I replaced the jets in this bike about 4 years ago with 38's.  When a pulled them last week I thought about soaking them in Berryman's B12 before replacing them.  However when I could see light through the jet, I figured I was OK.  Thanks for sharing.

[NEHI]

   My 99 I/S had the same problem 4 yrs ago just north of Las Vegas (about 2500 mi from home) turned out to be a broken camshaft.

[signart]

Do a compression test.

[Chiefy]

Vin down in Ft Myers had a very *similar* problem, although a tad different.  He suddenly lost power to one of the banks.  He found that the throttle linkage had come undone down on the carbs on that side.  Of course, I suppose the bank on that side was idling (?)  Something to look at anyway.

[Ricky-D]

It's hard to imagine that three carburetors, all on one side would get gummed up at the same time.

And you say there is good spark at the three so you can most reasonably rule out ignition problems.

So, it still must be a fuel problem.

Draining each carburetor only indicates that there was gas in the float bowls. It doesn't necessarily have to mean they are getting gas adequately.

The de-smog was done at an inappropriate time but now you'll have to deal with it as it is now. Too bad!

Have you checked again for fuel in the float bowls?

If you can get the motor running again, can you take it on the road?  See if you can get out of the low speed system and into the intermediate range.

Are you standing the bike upright when you try to get it running?

The post about the linkage should be investigated regarding your motor! Especially since you have r&r'd the carburetors with no success.

You should look at the fuel supply to that side of the motor.

Curious!

***

[Patrick]

Are you getting a good constant supply of fuel to the right side carburetors?[ let them drain for a while] If so, then it sure seems like you have a varnished/plugged low circuit problem. Clean jets doesn't necessarily mean a clean low circuit. It is strange that all 3 high side carburetors would have a problem after only 3 weeks of storage,so, if the linkage is working correctly then its about the only thing I can think of.

[Valkpilot]

1) Do you have a stock petcock?

2) Has all your experimentation been with the bike on the sidestand?

3) Did you notice a decline in MPG during your trip?

4) Is your tank less than half full?

If the answer is "yes" to #1, and "yes" to any of the rest, I'd SWAG that you have a leaky diaphragm in the petcock that is working just enough to supply gas to the left (lower) side, but not enough volume to fill the right (uphill) branch of the fuel line at the 'T'.

I'd also check the fuel line routing to make sure there are no humps in the line.

A leaky diaphragm will work until it doesn't, in other words, until the leak gets too large to adequately feed the engine.

I believe that head pressure, or the pressure resulting from gravity pulling on the fuel in the tank, plays a part in this.  With a full tank there is lots of weight pressing down on the petcock assembly and fuel lines. This assists in opening the (leaky) diaphragm because the pressure works along with the weak vacuum to overcome the spring that closes the diaphragm.  As you use up gas, the head pressure lessens, and the weak vacuum from the leaky diaphragm by itself is no longer capable of overcoming the spring.   This would explain the phenomena of seeming to run out of gas after 3 or 4 gallons where switching to reserve doesn't help, but adding a gallon of gas does.

I could be all wet on the idea that this is causing your problem, but I stood by the side of the road with two buddies in northern New Mexico, in the growing dusk, scratching our collective heads over almost exactly your same symptoms, and finally crying out in the wilderness to Daniel Meyer.  

It was the petcock.  It's always the petcock.

[Thunderbolt]

I am eagerly awaiting the results of this thread.  Last year I put a kit in my petcock after almost being stranded 40 miles from home.  I nursed it home, but it would not run well at higher speeds.  Turned out  that the vacuum side of the diaphragm would not hold the fuel side open far enough to flow fuel properly.  I found out when I got home that if I had stopped up the small hole in the bottom of the petcock, it would have made it home a lot better with almost perfect fuel flow.  I suggest that you try that first.  Stop up the hole with just your fingertip if the bike will run and see if it starts running on the right side. 
I just last week decided to do the desmog on the same bike and discovered that it has the same problem again.  I was going to pull a vacuum and dump all the fuel in a spare container.  It would not hold a vacuum without stopping up the hole on the bottom.  I think I have invested enough in petcock kits that this time I will probably order a pingle.

[Pappy!]

You mentioned cleaning and sighting through the jets. You did not mention a thorough cleaning of the passageways beneath the jets. When I do carbs I will spray carb cleaner through each passageway and verify flow through it. Was very time consuming on the Valk carbs but worth it.
Just because the jet is clean does not mean the entire slow speed circuit will flow fuel.

[Crazyhorse]

James told me that he installed a new petcock. We did drain the carbs a couple of times to insure we were getting gas. The plugs are firing. We put a block of wood under the kickstand to raise the bike up. Replaced the intake o-rings. I'm not sure if James has had time to work on this bike sense his last post. I know he has been very busy at work. He may see this and response. This one has me scratching my head.

[Patrick]

It shouldn't leave you scratching anything. Post #7. Pull the jets and spray some cleaner and air thru the passages. I believe the low circuit is plugged.

[Crazyhorse]

It shouldn't leave you scratching anything. Post #7. Pull the jets and spray some cleaner and air thru the passages. I believe the low circuit is plugged.

James said he pulled the slow jets. If he did and they are good then I can scratch anything I wish.

[Patrick]

OK, good luck. Scratch gently.

[Crazyhorse]

 James has ordered new slow jets for his bike. May be a couple of weeks before he can get back to working on it.

[JimL]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to this post, that is truly what make the Valkyrie community special.  The beast runs again!  As Mac (Crazyhorse) mentioned, I ordered new slow jets to replace the 38's that I installed 3 years ago.  I got busy with work and just got around to installing them on 1,3 and 5 last night.  It turns out that was the problem.

A lot of very good experienced Valkyrie mechanics that I respect told me that it was very improbable that they could foul up only sitting for 3 weeks, I agree with them.  I always try to resolve a lessons learned after an experience like this...I'm sort of at a loss for one.  I am very particular about the fuel I use, I always go out of my way to get non-ethanol fuel when I know that the bike is going to sit for 1 week...much less 3 weeks.  Maybe fuel additive next time?  The one thing I know that I could have done differently was to have done a better job inspecting the jets the first time I pulled them when I was trying to resolve the problem.

Thanks again for all the help, it is greatly appreciated

[BonS]

Glad you got it figured out, Jim. I have a set of clean out wires that are made by K&L Supply Company. The smallest is 0.011" and the largest pin is 0.038". Their tips are rounded to avoid gouging the hole. I use them whenever I'm not sure or can't see daylight through the jet. A great $15 investment.

[salty1]

Glad you got it figured out, Jim. I have a set of clean out wires that are made by K&L Supply Company. The smallest is 0.011" and the largest pin is 0.038". Their tips are rounded to avoid gouging the hole. I use them whenever I'm not sure or can't see daylight through the jet. A great $15 investment.

Great info BonS! I have used a strand of copper wire from 12 gauge wire and have gentle passed it through. Low budget version.

[JimL]

Salty took the words out of my mouth (or keyboard).  Great info BonS!  I was just wondering what I could use to make sure they are clean should I ever have to pull them again. 

[BonS]

I used to use pieces of guitar strings but always worried about gouging with the cut ends.

[Patrick]

I use tip cleaners, carefully. That along with carb cleaner and air pressure will fix our plugged low circuit issues. It just takes some a couple tries to get it right. As long it eventually gets fixed, all is good.

[3W-lonerider]

Glad ya got'r fixed. 

[Thunderbolt]

Glad you got it going.  Thanks for letting us know.

[Michvalk]

If there is any possibility that my bike will set for anything more than a couple of days, I use seafoam in the fuel. I carry a can in the saddlebag and run some through about once a month anyway. Keeps things clean. I was talking to a gas tanker dude, and he said in Michigan they are not required to post 10% on the pumps, and I thought I was buying straight gas and turned out I wasn't. So I took to running seafoam on a regular basis. Never had a problem after that. The crud can build up even if you are running the bike all the time. And just as a side note, the right side carbs can have less gas in them than the left  side ,as they are higher when on the sidestand. One of the reasons I store on my lift over the winter

[9Ball]

Glad you figured it out.  Your outcome is why I always recommend replacing the jets rather than trying to clean them.  I've been though the same and so have two of my friends.  It's a $35 piece of insurance to keep you from having to tear down the bike again.

Enjoy riding...

[BonS]

My Honda snow blower and pressure washer engines have external slow jets. Simply grab a screwdriver and it's in your hand in seconds. It's plastic too, so it doesn't corrode. Before even pulling the starter each season I simply unscrew the jet to make sure it's open, add fresh gas, and they start on first pull nearly every time. Ahhhhh. If only the Valkyrie . . .