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Squealy
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« on: April 08, 2013, 06:13:37 AM » |
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It was a beautiful day yesterday. I tell the wife to get ready we are going for a ride... but this is how my day ended  ....   Drive shaft and Pinion cup failure.... I called Jabba and he came and rescued me.... Now I'm looking for parts that I can get "right now" as I'm leaving for GOTF on Thursday morning.... All the local Honda dealers are closed on Monday's.... Any suggestions? This rear end was serviced (by Jabba and I) 7,013 miles ago..... |
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Squealy  |
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jimmytee
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2013, 06:34:18 AM » |
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Sorry to hear about your troubles.  What happened when it failed? I just serviced mine looked good. Did the oil seal get replaced on the drive shaft when it was serviced ? |
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"Go sell crazy somewhere else,we're all stocked up"
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Squealy
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2013, 06:47:08 AM » |
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. What happened when it failed? I just serviced mine looked good. Did the oil seal get replaced on the drive shaft when it was serviced ? Pulling away from a stop light and there was a grinding sound and the bike wouldnt go... Oil seal didnt get replaced, but it looked good. We cleaned up drive shaft and pinion cup, antiseized it and put her back together and replaced the rear end fluid at that time too.... We serviced the stuff in Jabba's blue bike the same way and when we "broke open" the joint btw the drive shaft "cover" and the rear end, rear end fluid leaked out altttle.... that didnt happen this time on mine, RUST and METAL shaving came out.... |
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Squealy |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2013, 06:47:40 AM » |
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I have a pristine (like new) drive shaft and pinion cup. Im way down in florida though.........let me know
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« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 06:52:13 AM by Chrisj CMA »
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MP
Member
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 06:51:22 AM » |
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I have a pristing (like new) drive shaft and pinion cup. Im way down in florida though.........let me know
I have one too, but it is in ND! Probably Wed at earliest to get it there. If it would work, let me know ASAP. MP |
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 "Ridin' with Cycho" |
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Squealy
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 06:52:29 AM » |
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I have a pristing (like new) drive shaft and pinion cup. Im way down in florida though.........let me know
stand by, i'm going to make a phone call to a dealer I found online that says they have the parts in stock. They dont open until 10am Eastern time. IF they have them, I'm goign to ordert hem and have them OVERNIGHTED to me. If they dont I might have you overnight yours to me, and I'll replace it. I'd like to get here back together tomorrow... and ride her thursday to GOTF.... Standby.... |
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Squealy |
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longrider
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 06:53:49 AM » |
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Everyone has a different opinion on this one. I personally lube the cup with the same mixture of 1/2 moly - 1/2 grease, same as the wheel splines. Straight Moly seems to dry out. I don't think the oil from the rear drive gets up there much.
Warren
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Squealy
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 06:54:07 AM » |
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I have one too, but it is in ND! Probably Wed at earliest to get it there. If it would work, let me know ASAP.
Thanks, I'll let you know know SOON..... see my repsonse to Chrisj |
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Squealy |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2013, 07:00:50 AM » |
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I have a pristing (like new) drive shaft and pinion cup. Im way down in florida though.........let me know
stand by, i'm going to make a phone call to a dealer I found online that says they have the parts in stock. They dont open until 10am Eastern time. IF they have them, I'm goign to ordert hem and have them OVERNIGHTED to me. If they dont I might have you overnight yours to me, and I'll replace it. I'd like to get here back together tomorrow... and ride her thursday to GOTF.... Standby.... standing by |
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pancho
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 07:16:06 AM » |
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Hey Squealy,, you said that when you serviced the bike, "We cleaned up drive shaft and pinion cup, antiseized it and put her back together" I am wondering if you greased the joint?? The service manual says that both that joint and the ujoint end should be greased.
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The most expensive things you will purchase, are those things you would not have needed if you had listened and obeyed.
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Squealy
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2013, 07:18:17 AM » |
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I have a pristing (like new) drive shaft and pinion cup. Im way down in florida though.........let me know
stand by, i'm going to make a phone call to a dealer I found online that says they have the parts in stock. They dont open until 10am Eastern time. IF they have them, I'm goign to ordert hem and have them OVERNIGHTED to me. If they dont I might have you overnight yours to me, and I'll replace it. I'd like to get here back together tomorrow... and ride her thursday to GOTF.... Standby.... standing by They have to order them too.... they wont have them for 3-6 days some optimistically I'll have them Friday, but I would say next week before I see them.... I have sent you a PM.... |
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Squealy |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2013, 07:30:34 AM » |
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I have a pristing (like new) drive shaft and pinion cup. Im way down in florida though.........let me know
stand by, i'm going to make a phone call to a dealer I found online that says they have the parts in stock. They dont open until 10am Eastern time. IF they have them, I'm goign to ordert hem and have them OVERNIGHTED to me. If they dont I might have you overnight yours to me, and I'll replace it. I'd like to get here back together tomorrow... and ride her thursday to GOTF.... Standby.... standing by They have to order them too.... they wont have them for 3-6 days some optimistically I'll have them Friday, but I would say next week before I see them.... I have sent you a PM.... Consider them on the way PM returned |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2013, 09:04:37 AM » |
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Look for the white truck (FEDEX) not later than 10:30 tomorrow morning. Good luck. PM sent
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jimmytee
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 09:08:54 AM » |
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. What happened when it failed? I just serviced mine looked good. Did the oil seal get replaced on the drive shaft when it was serviced ? Pulling away from a stop light and there was a grinding sound and the bike wouldnt go... Oil seal didnt get replaced, but it looked good. We cleaned up drive shaft and pinion cup, antiseized it and put her back together and replaced the rear end fluid at that time too.... We serviced the stuff in Jabba's blue bike the same way and when we "broke open" the joint btw the drive shaft "cover" and the rear end, rear end fluid leaked out altttle.... that didnt happen this time on mine, RUST and METAL shaving came out.... I am thinking that the manual says to replace that oil seal if I remember right. Hey Squealy,, you said that when you serviced the bike, "We cleaned up drive shaft and pinion cup, antiseized it and put her back together" I am wondering if you greased the joint?? The service manual says that both that joint and the ujoint end should be greased.
That was my thought too ??? |
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« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 09:10:34 AM by jimmytee »
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"Go sell crazy somewhere else,we're all stocked up"
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Squealy
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 09:10:00 AM » |
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Look for the white truck (FEDEX) not later than 10:30 tomorrow morning. Good luck. PM sent
Thanks Chrisj CMA, you ROCK..... thanks for bailing a guy out of trouble..... I'm going to have a spare drive shaft and pinion cup around as a spare from NOW on, btw my friends that live close by, we have 5 valks btw us, a driveshaft and pinion cup will be nice to have around.... |
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Squealy |
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Garry 2r's
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2013, 09:43:03 AM » |
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WOW!!! That almost makes me want to tear mine down and look at it I did everything 7000 miles ago which was the first time after 45,000 miles and was due but not over due. Used belray grease on everything guess this will tell me if I did good going to wait and check it this winter.
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MP
Member
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2013, 10:45:45 AM » |
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Chris: You sending an oil seal too? Seems like every time the cup gets dry, the seal is shot. I am not sure which happens first?
MP
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"Ridin' with Cycho" |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2013, 10:58:54 AM » |
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Chris: You sending an oil seal too? Seems like every time the cup gets dry, the seal is shot. I am not sure which happens first?
MP
The drive shaft has a good looking oil seal on it. I didnt change my first one until 100K miles. I think its more of a seal to keep water and dirt OUT than oil or grease IN. |
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hairyteeth
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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2013, 11:05:15 AM » |
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In the picture of the bad pinion cup and splines the parts are red. To me that means that there was water involved with the grease or oil. I would definetly flush the rear end and replace gear oil.
HT
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Squealy
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2013, 11:17:21 AM » |
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I have an extra oil seal too.
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Squealy |
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fudgie
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Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2013, 11:22:20 AM » |
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You better get a better mechanic!   |
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR |
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Squealy
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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2013, 11:48:53 AM » |
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You better get a better mechanic! or something like that.... |
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Squealy |
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Patrick
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Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2013, 12:24:00 PM » |
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Geezz, how does something end up looking like that in 7K miles ? Did you lube the cup and shaft at all or just what does 'never-seize' it mean ? I never seize most things, but, not that. I grease them and add a little oil in the cup. Remember to tighten those 4 retainers after tightening the axle.
Anyway, never mind, you've got your hands full right now getting that monster up and running.
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Squealy
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2013, 12:32:49 PM » |
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I dont know, I thought we had it done correctly, but apparently NOT... So I'll try again....
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Squealy |
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hubcapsc
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Posts: 16779
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2013, 12:33:45 PM » |
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Geezz, how does something end up looking like that in 7K miles ?4K miles, from new to this:  -Mike "my pinion cup seal came out..."
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Mallett
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Posts: 511
Oh, what a ride!!!!
Laurel, Mississippi
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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2013, 01:34:17 PM » |
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OK, this got my attention, Squealy. I serviced mine about 6000 miles back taking Jabba's advice on the final drive oil lubing the pinion cup. I did pour a little final drive oil in mine before putting it back together. May have to tear mine down & check it...sorry about your troubles.... |
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Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning; but give me the man who has pluck to fight when he's sure of losing.
GEORGE ELIOT
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Mallett
Member
Posts: 511
Oh, what a ride!!!!
Laurel, Mississippi
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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2013, 01:45:55 PM » |
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. What happened when it failed? I just serviced mine looked good. Did the oil seal get replaced on the drive shaft when it was serviced ? +1 |
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Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning; but give me the man who has pluck to fight when he's sure of losing.
GEORGE ELIOT
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salty1
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Posts: 2359
"Flyka"
Spokane, WA or Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2013, 02:49:21 PM » |
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WOW! Sorry about your troubles. You got my attention, it's time to service my final drive splines, pinion cup and drive line.  |
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My rides: 1998 GL1500C, 2000 GL 1500CF,2006 GL 1800 3A   |
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BonS
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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2013, 02:52:08 PM » |
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Squealy, did you clean out the two weep holes at the bottom of the pinion cup when you last did your maintenance? and how did you do it: using a pick or similar or use compressed air to blow out the holes/channels? And did you just use moly paste on the splines? And finally, did you change or at least check the hypoid lube level in your pumpkin when you finished your last maintenance? Sorry about all the questions but inquiring minds and other Valkyrie owners want to know!
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old2soon
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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2013, 03:24:05 PM » |
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Squealy, did you clean out the two weep holes at the bottom of the pinion cup when you last did your maintenance? and how did you do it: using a pick or similar or use compressed air to blow out the holes/channels? And did you just use moly paste on the splines? And finally, did you change or at least check the hypoid lube level in your pumpkin when you finished your last maintenance? Sorry about all the questions but inquiring minds and other Valkyrie owners want to know!
Not only want to know-NEED to know.  Hope you git er done for G O T F. RIDE SAFE. |
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Jabba
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VRCCDS0197
Greenwood Indiana
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« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2013, 03:27:43 PM » |
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I'll jump in here.
When we did it, we cleaned the pinion cup with HOT water and soap. And then brake cleaner. Then we got it hot to make sure it was dry. It was SQUEAKY clean. We are muzzle loader guys... we know how to get something clean with water and dry it out.
When we assembled, we coated both the pinion cup, AND drive shaft with anti-Seize. We also changed and refilled the rear end oil when we did it.
I have done this exact same procedure on my two valks 4 times. When we open the rear end up, they come out SLOPPY WET with final drive oil. To the point where we have seen it come out of the joint between the swingarm and the final drive when we separate the final drive from the swingarm.
We are going to pull mine apart tomorrow night before we put Squealy's back together. What we find will determine the process we use to reassemble. If mine is good and wet... we'll probably do his the same way. If mine is suspicious at all, we'll probably opt to slobber his up with grease and/or moly lube. Mine too for that matter.
I will let you guys know how mine goes. Hell, I might even go out tonight and tear it apart just to see. I'll take pics, and post them here no matter.
But Mallet... you're right. I called a couple guys I know that did theirs like mine, and told them what we found. If I had remembered that you did yours too, I would have told you as well.
It doesn't make sense to grease that joint, they designed it to scoop gear oil into it and keep it lubed. If you grease it... it at best plugs the oil passages, and at worst, flushes grease into your final drive.
I dunno. I will check mine and let ya'll know.
But for the record... I think I am with Hairy Teeth... it seems like it got wet. Either from the oil seal being bad, or maybe the u-joint boot not being on right or something... but the u-joint looks fine. NOT rusty. But there is a lot of rust in the inside of the swingarm.
To be continued...
Jabba
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3W-lonerider
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« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2013, 03:40:40 PM » |
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(we coated both the pinion cup, AND drive shaft with anti-Seize.)
Anti-seaze is NOT a lubricant. and with parts rubbing togather like a pinion cup and shaft, it will not last very long before your anti-seaze disappears. your better off using a good grade of water proof grease.
the equipment i work on has hydraulic pumps mounted to the rear of engines. we had a guy in our shop that thought anti-sease was the next best thing since sliced bread. tried to tell him to use grease. Every pump he mounted with anti-sease with-in 1000 hours on the engine and pump we ended up buying new pumps and couplers because the splines were shot and nothing left.
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Daniel Meyer
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Posts: 5492
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2013, 03:54:16 PM » |
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Probably did..but I'll ask anyway...did you clean out the end of the driveshaft...the hollow that allows for the pinion nut. Crud tends to build up there and can clog the holes.
And light lube with grease or gear oil before assembly. Anti-seize is not a very good lubricant. Works good for anti-seize though...
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« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 03:55:48 PM by Daniel Meyer »
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer  |
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Jabba
Member
Posts: 3563
VRCCDS0197
Greenwood Indiana
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« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2013, 05:13:40 PM » |
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This is what I found folks...  Anti-seize is not a lubricant... I agree. But that was not intended to BE a lubricant. Gear oil is supposed to get pumped up there and provide the lube... Yes Daniel... we cleaned the end of the driveshaft too. Like I have said... I have used this assembly procedure several times on my two valks and never had trouble... now we have 2 in a row... Mine has NO damage... or well... very little damage. I cleaned it up, and everything is OK. There was still anti-seize in there... but there was some rust too. The manual says to coat them with a THIN layer of Moly Lube. I guess that's how we'll put them back together this time. What would cause the gear oil to NOT get pumped up there like in the past? I dunno. I am not happy or super comfortable... I am gonna put her back together and tell everyone I know that has taken advise from me to check theirs... Jabba |
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Brian
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« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2013, 05:18:51 PM » |
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I don't recommend the Honda moly by itself as it too does not stay put. Good idea telling your friends about this, this way you will still have friends.
Good luck.
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« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 05:39:13 PM by Brian »
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Hoser
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child of the sixties VRCC 17899
Auburn, Kansas
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« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2013, 05:33:31 PM » |
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I have had good luck with moly engine assembly grease in place of the moly paste. Hoser
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I don't want a pickle, just wanna ride my motor sickle  [img width=300 height=233]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/ |
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wiggydotcom
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Posts: 3387
Do Your Best and Miss the Rest!
Yorkville, Illinois
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« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2013, 05:44:47 PM » |
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I'm not here to pass judgement on anybody's methods. I combine Belray grease with Kluber grease and all my splines look like new with 65k on the bike.
But what I wanted to say was that it's people like Chrisj and MP that make this Club a brotherhood. To offer your own parts and send them overnight is just beyond the norm.
Thanks, guys!
Hope you get going again soon, Squealy.
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VRCC #10177 VRCCDS #239  |
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Mallett
Member
Posts: 511
Oh, what a ride!!!!
Laurel, Mississippi
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« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2013, 06:19:26 PM » |
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This is what I found folks... Anti-seize is not a lubricant... I agree. But that was not intended to BE a lubricant. Gear oil is supposed to get pumped up there and provide the lube... Yes Daniel... we cleaned the end of the driveshaft too. Like I have said... I have used this assembly procedure several times on my two valks and never had trouble... now we have 2 in a row... Mine has NO damage... or well... very little damage. I cleaned it up, and everything is OK. There was still anti-seize in there... but there was some rust too. The manual says to coat them with a THIN layer of Moly Lube. I guess that's how we'll put them back together this time. What would cause the gear oil to NOT get pumped up there like in the past? I dunno. I am not happy or super comfortable... I am gonna put her back together and tell everyone I know that has taken advise from me to check theirs... Jabba Thanks Jabba for checking yours today, I'll being checking mine tomorrow. I'm having to work tonight are I'd be out there right now doing it. I will post results tomorrow... |
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Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning; but give me the man who has pluck to fight when he's sure of losing.
GEORGE ELIOT
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Gavin_Sons
Member
Posts: 7109
VRCC# 32796
columbus indiana
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« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2013, 06:40:58 PM » |
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Ill check mine one night this week. Ill pick up some belray and kubler tomorrow. And may even get it apart and back together tomorrow night. I really want to make the ride to moonshine saturday.
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Jabba
Member
Posts: 3563
VRCCDS0197
Greenwood Indiana
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« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2013, 06:43:23 PM » |
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Mine is all back together... except for the hard bags. When Squealy is here tomorrow night, I'll help him with his, and work on cleaning and waxing the hard to get at spots on mine before the bags go back on.... I put mine together with a thin coat of moly paste. I also anti-seized all the bolts that are the tough ones... on the exhaust hangars and on the final drive. THat's part of why I can tear mine apart and get it back together... alone. While my best buddy Squealy bags me and plays around all night. It took me about 3 hours... including prepping and cooking dinner, and eating with the family. I lubed the splines too while I was there... duh. I won't let mine go too long without looking. I need to look at the IS now too... damn it. But that'll wait till I get back from GOTF. I have a couple others to do too. I have 2 friends that converted to Valks LAST year, and I have not talked them into tearing theirs apart yet. I will though. We'll see how this one works. Oh yeah... I'll change and refill the final drive oil tomorrow too. See ya'll on the road!!! Ride safe!! Jabba |
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