Is it too much to ask......(long)

[Stanley Steamer]

for the guys working for you on your crew to tell you the truth??....I am a Landscape Crewleader for the local City/County Govt. and we take care of 20+ blocks, several landscaped parking lots, and just over a half dozen Govt. bldgs such as City Hall, Courthouse, etc in downtown Athens, GA....well....

I have two Groundskeepers and 2 State Inmates that make up my crew....both of the GK's are older than me....one is around his mid 50's and the other is about 62...the oldest one smokes heavily and has COPD so the hot, smoggy days of summer make it tougher on him than the rest of the crew....I realize that it's much harder on them than me to get things done that in the past I could have done quicker...so, I allow them more time than I would take to do the same job...I let them do the regular maintenance such as the mowing and mulching while I do the more critical or technical tasks like pruning trees/shrubs or spraying weeds from around ornamentals....

Today I set the older GK up with a couple of water hoses to water some shrubs we'd cut back a few weeks ago...it hasn't rained much since then, so we needed to help them out a little...I asked him to also water three medium sized Dogwoods that we planted a year or so ago...he said he'd take care of it...ok, no problem.....well, later on I was at that site doing some other work and noticed the leaves on those trees still looked droopy....Hummmm, after pulling back the pinestraw, the soil around them was bone dry....he'd told me AFTER he'd watered that he HAD watered them...a bald-faced lie... .....

I asked him at the end of the day why the ground was DRY around them and he told me that he'd watered them first, but not much...WRONG...he started on the shrubs first because I helped him stretch the hoses all the way out from the first....he was trying to back-petal, but the damage was done.....

I'd rather him just tell me he'd forgotten to, I forget...everyone does, but now I can't trust him to take care of stuff I ask him to do without having to constantly check on him to make sure it was done....I was frustrated and told my boss about it and she wants to talk to him about it now...this guy will have 10 yrs in with the Govt. next March and said he'd retire...I hope so because I need to have someone I can trust...especially when they work Inmates...she's tried to make it as easy as possible on him since we let him move over to the Buildings section from the Parks dept...he was busted from crewleader to GK a year or so before he moved over with us a year ago...we were doing him a favor to get him away from the Supervisor over there that busted him back down...

Sorry for the long rant....it's really small potatoes in the scheme of things, but something that sticks in my craw!!...there have been some other things that that guy has done that had me wondering about him...I just hope that he can hold it together for the last 9 months or so...

[Robert]

Looks like he still has some issues that are unresolved from when he was busted downward or this was only another symptom why he was busted. I hate to say it but if the mans track record isn't so good why trust him? The hardest thing to do is to be a good discerner of people and especially when you need to lean on someone.  You are the one at fault, why? because you didn't establish a track record of reliability with him. Until someone proves himself then unfortunately you have to have eyes in the back of your head. Personally I would have confronted him and ask why he lied see what comes out if more lies then you might just as well get yourself someone else. If its a I am sorry kind of thing I would give him another chance. Some times you have to build someone into the position that you want him to have, but dont waste your time on someone that is got to many problems to clear up.

[solo1]

It sounds like you have gone out of your way to help him out.  However, a person that has COPD has got to have a hard time just breathing, let alone working.  That's still no excuse for lying about his duties.
Maybe a talk with him telling him the same things that you mentioned here might work.  I'd give him a second chance but lay it on the line whatever the policy is.  You, as his supervisor, have the final responsibility for his work and you will be judged by what he doesn't do.

Don't feel a little awkward because he is older than you.  When I was an environmental engineer, my immediate boss was 35 years younger than I. I didn't mind the occasional chewing out if I goofed.   We keep in touch even today as we both ride motorcycles.  Hope this helps.

Wayne

[Jabba]

A lot of people think that being the boss is an easier gig than being a dumbdick.  I am here to tell you it ain't.  Supervising a bunch of monkeys is a lot harder than keeping your head down and doing your job.

Even for me... the guys that work for me are educated, professionals, and one is even a degreed and Licensed Professinal Engineer.  Keeping him on track is sometimes harder than doing it myself.

I look at it as my duty to humanity.  Mentoring others is what you have to do... even if they are older than you.

Jabba

[Tundra]

 Set clear expectations and follow up, then coach, council, document and terminate. Cover your bases for legal reprocussions. Too many good folks out of work (me) to let non performers hold a job.

[sheets]

As Tundra noted; discipline is like painting by the numbers.  Document every discussion.  Follow up the informal discussion with a letter documenting the discussion.  Next time is an official letter of warning.  You have to have the evidence and the proof you played by the numbers when push comes to shove at a later date.  Doing nothing makes an enabler.  Dishonesty is serious.  Fit (physical) for duty another matter.  If he can't physically meet the requirements of his duty statement he needs to be evaluated.  There is such a thing as "reasonable accommodation".  You need to be careful here or you are setting yourself up for more heartburn.   I'd have him go the HR and fill out his retirement papers with the effective date.  Tell him if he wants to retire he needs to toe the line.  The next time he is "insubordinate" he is toast.  Nothing wrong with the old guys being assigned yard bird duty, but dishonesty still plays a role here.   (I'm having flashbacks just writing this . . . )  sheets   

[Brad]

Makes you also wonder what they were doing instead of working.  If a few taxpayers drove by and saw them laying in the shade all day then your gonna get some phone calls.   

[Willy]

DOCUMENTATION!!! Put every disciplinary discussion in writing then have him sign it to make sure he understands what is expected of him. If he lied to you then he'll lie to your boss.
JUST CYA

[sattz]

Take some time off...

[alph]

I feel your pain buddy!!

I’m an electrician/mechanic.  A machine will break down and the operators will say “I don’t know, it just stopped?”, then they go running out side to smoke a cig, and your trying everything to find out what went wrong, after they come in they say, “oh, this came out” as they pull a missing piece of the puzzle out of their pocket, and it explains everything that went wrong!!!

Or better yet!  They try and fix the problem, only to make it worse!!  Had one guy throw a switch on a PLC that turned off the network card!  And didn’t know he did it!  He was in a 480v 3ph control panel poking around thinking he could fix it and be a hero!! Only causing me an hour of searching to try and find out why I couldn’t see half of the machine on the PLC!!

Yeah, people are fun!!!

[solo1]

Many years ago (that always seems to be the case ) I was a service rep for GE Xray.  I lost track of how many times I made a service call and found out the hard way that the operator was at fault but wouldn't admit it.

[Stanley Steamer]

My boss and the landscape manager talked about it and he recommended that my boss suspend him for one day(to take place next Monday)...my boss is meticulous about keeping track of this kind of stuff, so we should be covered .......She also made it clear to my GK that he has to tow the line if he's going to make the last 9 months or so until he can retire, but that it all depends on his actions between now and then....I hope this is a wake up call and he takes it to heart...I don't want him to get this close to retirement and screw it up, but I can't mollycoddle him either...

[Skinhead]

Yeah, what ever you do don't mollycoddle him, those sexual harrassment law suits can be expensive.

[Hoser]

"Sorry for the long rant....it's really small potatoes in the scheme of things, but something that sticks in my craw!!...there have been some other things that that guy has done that had me wondering about him...I just hope that he can hold it together for the last 9 months or so..."

You are right, it is small potatoes, there are people out here with real problems, chill out before you have a stroke, good grief, it's just yardwork, somethin to do to get money to do important stuff, like ride our bikes!  Not bustin your balls, JMHO.    Hoser

[alph]

Yeah, what ever you do don't mollycoddle him, those sexual harrassment law suits can be expensive.

NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!

[Brad]

My boss and the landscape manager talked about it and he recommended that my boss suspend him for one day(to take place next Monday

Make it mid week.....monday gives him a 3 day weekend

[woody]

I cant see the problem?
I had to work once, it was the longest 10 minutes of my life.
Those damn lawn mowers dont have no seats. Get this ....you have to actually push them, I mean really, push something? what happened to motor driven?
But it go way too much when I was expected to turn the damn thing around and go back the other way. Surely 20 feet is more than enough for a days pay.
Anyhoo, Ill stick to sitting behind a computer, its a lot easier.

[Black Pearl's Captain]

My boss and the landscape manager talked about it and he recommended that my boss suspend him for one day(to take place next Monday)...my boss is meticulous about keeping track of this kind of stuff, so we should be covered .......She also made it clear to my GK that he has to tow the line if he's going to make the last 9 months or so until he can retire, but that it all depends on his actions between now and then....I hope this is a wake up call and he takes it to heart...I don't want him to get this close to retirement and screw it up, but I can't mollycoddle him either...

Take him out back and pop a cap in his old ass. You owe him nothing if he can't do the work of an 18 year old young buck. He's not your daddy is he? Screw him, you'll look good for your boss and might get a raise for yourself to boot. It's the new world we live in, you know, if it's old and tired, screw it, throw it away, go buy a new one.

Cap his old ass i say, we don't need no more old busted down from 35 years of working thier aZZ off geezers drawing goverment retirement they didn't earn because they got tired 9 months too early.

My Humble Opinion.

Raymond

[thumper]

I'll help ya Steamer....I love trimmin shrubs !!!

Oh wait...are you talking about plants?

[¿spoom]

My boss and the landscape manager talked about it and he recommended that my boss suspend him for one day(to take place next Monday)...my boss is meticulous about keeping track of this kind of stuff, so we should be covered .......She also made it clear to my GK that he has to tow the line if he's going to make the last 9 months or so until he can retire, but that it all depends on his actions between now and then....I hope this is a wake up call and he takes it to heart...I don't want him to get this close to retirement and screw it up, but I can't mollycoddle him either...

This post seems to sum it up well. Just be firm and be fair. It's his job to lose or keep, as long as he understands the rules, it's on him whatever happens next.

[Hoser]

"Take him out back and pop a cap in his old ass. You owe him nothing if he can't do the work of an 18 year old young buck. He's not your daddy is he? Screw him, you'll look good for your boss and might get a raise for yourself to boot. It's the new world we live in, you know, if it's old and tired, screw it, throw it away, go buy a new one.

Cap his old ass i say, we don't need no more old busted down from 35 years of working thier aZZ off geezers drawing goverment retirement they didn't earn because they got tired 9 months too early."

My Humble Opinion.

Raymond
Well said Raymond, you see the world from a new perpective when you get a few years on you!  hoser

[Stanley Steamer]

My boss and the landscape manager talked about it and he recommended that my boss suspend him for one day(to take place next Monday)...my boss is meticulous about keeping track of this kind of stuff, so we should be covered .......She also made it clear to my GK that he has to tow the line if he's going to make the last 9 months or so until he can retire, but that it all depends on his actions between now and then....I hope this is a wake up call and he takes it to heart...I don't want him to get this close to retirement and screw it up, but I can't mollycoddle him either...

Take him out back and pop a cap in his old ass. You owe him nothing if he can't do the work of an 18 year old young buck. He's not your daddy is he? Screw him, you'll look good for your boss and might get a raise for yourself to boot. It's the new world we live in, you know, if it's old and tired, screw it, throw it away, go buy a new one.

Cap his old ass i say, we don't need no more old busted down from 35 years of working thier aZZ off geezers drawing goverment retirement they didn't earn because they got tired 9 months too early.

My Humble Opinion.

Raymond

and if you'd read my initial post more carefully, you'd have seen that I do not and have not expected him to work like he was 18 years old...I know better than that, it's not practical.....I give both of my GK's respect where it's due...this particular GK has a spotty record of telling his supervisor's that he's done tasks that they found out later was not true(my boss found out he was written up for the same thing a couple of years ago)...I'm sure it's because he doesn't want to look 'bad" in their eyes and yes, maybe with his health and age, he's just to the point that the bare minimum is alright with him since he has such a short time left.....I have found that he works much better when he's around me than when he is working with the other guy's on my crew....even to the point of slowing them down and causing them to miss details that he knows that I want them and expect them to take care of...I've had to send them back to worksites a few times to "do it right" and you'd think by now he'd learn that it's easier to do it RIGHT the first time than have to do it twice??!!....

I have told him a few times that I don't mind that when he's feeling bad... that even if he is too tired to do something that at least make sure one of the Inmates takes care of it since they are usually half his age or even younger....that's pretty "accomodating" in my estimation....I have always worked harder, longer, faster, and more efficiently than any of the other guys on my crew because that's the way it should be and why they pay me the "Big" bucks and I do it regardless of who's around whether I'm alone or my Boss is watching.....my Dad instilled a very good work ethic in me and I'm thankful for that....I guess as I get older though, I realize that not everyone is going to have the same drive and motivation that I have.....I do know that I get a little miffed when the public seems to think that that ALL Govt. employees are lazy and just do the bare minimum to get by....I'd let them work on my crew for a normal week and they'd see then that it just isn't true......at work, I'm almost the opposite as I am on here....as much as I cut up and play on here, I'm serious and all about business at work.....works for me......

[Stanley Steamer]

I'll help ya Steamer....I love trimmin shrubs !!!

Oh wait...are you talking about plants?

"Rug" business too??... ....One of the SCRC Lady riders once asked me if I was in the Carpet business.....I said "No"...not the kind that goes on the floor!!!.... ... .... ... ... ... ...

BTW...How are you doing with your chemo treatments?

[Stanley Steamer]

"Sorry for the long rant....it's really small potatoes in the scheme of things, but something that sticks in my craw!!...there have been some other things that that guy has done that had me wondering about him...I just hope that he can hold it together for the last 9 months or so..."

You are right, it is small potatoes, there are people out here with real problems, chill out before you have a stroke, good grief, it's just yardwork, somethin to do to get money to do important stuff, like ride our bikes!  Not bustin your balls, JMHO.    Hoser

since I am not broken up over it....not by a long shot....and yeah, I'm just glad to have a job in this economy....that is why I take it seriously....I have to answer for everything my crew does...good OR bad and I want them to do the best they can so that we ALL can KEEP our jobs......which like you said...let's us do the "Important" stuff like riding our bikes!!!.....

[Jabba]

What I have learned over the years, is that it's simply not fair for me to judge other by the standards I keep for myself.  It sounds conceited... but it's true.  Sound slike you ar ein the same spot Stanley.

Jabba