DOA - Won't start

[Shade]

A few months ago my starter switch failed me.  Symptoms were: No lights, nothing happened when I hit the starter switch.  Removed and repaired switch...got lights and she started.  A few days ago, starter switch failed me again (or so it appeared).  Decided to replace rather than rebuild.  Installed new starter switch assembly and battery.  No lights and she won't fire.  What next? Starter relay?  Talking 1999 Valk Tourer.

[John U.]

You can jump the starter relay with short piece of heavy gauge wire to get the bike going. Some have had the relay partially melt on them. It's behind the right side cover.
If you've got a new start switch and new battery, it's the only thing left.
Unless your kickstand switch is bad or unplugged. I guess you've checked the kill switch, but you might want to spray it with some contact cleaner to be sure it's working right.
Good luck and let us know what happens.

[Madmike]

Battery ground OK??

Starter relay shows a 30A main fuse, circuit goes through that then to the ign. switch, turn the switch on and you should have power at the fuse panel.

[Shade]

If it were problems with the kickstand switch, I should still have lights when I turn the key.....Right??

[Madmike]

If it were problems with the kickstand switch, I should still have lights when I turn the key.....Right??

yup..

do you have a continuity tester or multimeter??

[Shade]

Have both

[Madmike]

Do you have the schematic?  You could check for power with the continuity tester :

-hook the clip to ground,

-probe the positive post of teh battery (light should come on - proves battery has some charge and is grounded)

-then probe both sides of the 30A main fuse (proves circuit to fuse and fuse is intact) ,

-circuit goes through the fuse and then on to the ign. switch, turn the switch on and you should now have power at the fuse panel.  If there is no power at the fuses then you can backtrack and start pulling multipins apart etc to locate the problem. 

The ATO fuses (mini, regular and maxis) are nice because you can easily check them with a continuity tester as there are little open spots on the top of each leg of the fuse, if there is power at one side you should have power at the other side if the fuse is still good.  I don't think that the first ones that came out way back when were like this (with the open spot).  You can also check a circuits status this way to find out if it is a keyed or "always on" circuit.

You can get the manual with schematics online, download the zip file and then have it as a PDF

http://www.valkyrienorway.com/index.html  (bottom of technical section on left side of page.)




Here is a schematic for a standard or tourer (battery is in bottom right corner):

http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/STschem.jpg

This schematic has excellent pin outs of the switches along the bottom edge and if you zoom on the battery you will see the 30 amp main fuse detailed in the start relay. You could have a problem at the connector. 

[Thunderbolt]

underneath right side cover next to small fuses lives the main fuse 30A. and a relay.  If that fuse is blown or the contacts have overheated, you will have an open at the contacts for the fuse.  You may find plastic melted or green corrosion there.  RJ has posted a replacement connector for a gold wing that will work by moving one wire recently.  Maybe he will post it again.
While passing a car on the road, a friend had that connector overheat and the bike died.  All he could do was slow down and fall in behind the car and coast to the side of the road.  We cleaned up the contacts and got him home, he replaced it later.

[Ricky-D]

A few months ago my starter switch failed me.  Symptoms were: No lights, nothing happened when I hit the starter switch.  Removed and repaired switch...got lights and she started.  A few days ago, starter switch failed me again (or so it appeared).  Decided to replace rather than rebuild.  Installed new starter switch assembly and battery.  No lights and she won't fire.  What next? Starter relay?  Talking 1999 Valk Tourer.

I don't understand what you are saying with that sentence.  Do you mean that there is now an extra problem "she won't fire"

I first was thinking that the problem is still with the switch regardless being replaced with a new switch.

However you have thrown in a new problem. That is unless you mean to say the starter still does not turn ("won't fire).

To me when I hear the term "won't fire" I expect an ignition problem where the motor will not start, turns over ok, just will not start.

A little clarification here might go a long way to helping you solve the problem and save some money buy not replacing good parts.

[Shade]

Sorry about my vague slang.  By "won't fire" I mean to say nothing happens, no clicking, no starter, nothing.  In terms of lights, I have none..no headlights, no brake lights and no indicator lights on the gauges.

Thanks for the help guys.  Haven't had much time (and probably won't until the weekend) but I did look at the starter relay and the 30A fuse is in tack, no signs of corrosion and no obvious signs of overheating. Next I'll run a continuity test on the relay...but again that may not be till the weekend.

In terms of "hot wiring" it to make it start, do I simply jump the two larger cables on the outside of the relay or do I jump two of the 4 terminals on the relay itself?  If so, which two.

Thanks again

[Ricky-D]

I would suggest going back over what you did to be sure there are good connections and no shorts.

Devise a test with a test light or volt/ohm meter or some other means to check all the functions of the switch.

I think it's the switch and definitely connects to what you did replacing the switch. No criticism here.

[Thunderbolt]

and the neutral light does not come on, it will not do any good to jump the start wiring (the two big cables).  Jumping those only forces the starter to turn, and without ignition on, it will still not start.  A test light or voltmeter will tell you where your open is located.  Take a 12V test light and connect the clip to the neg. battery terminal.  Put the probe end on the Pos. terminal.  Light should come on if not battery is dead.  If it lights, trace Pos. wire, follow it through to next exposed location and see if light comes on.  Following the schematic will help you troubleshoot this problem.  I suspect that you will find that when you have lights, you will have ignition and it will fire unless the battery is too low to fire the engine when you finally get to that point.  Schematics are here.  http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/
Make sure all cables are tight including the one on the frame.

[tivoklr]

My 97 is doing something vaguely similar. While running the bike, if it gets hot, it will occasionally completely lose electrical power, including shutting down the headlight, and then blip, it'll be back on again.

It's been doing this for 2 years, but has recently gotten worse and more frequent. I jumped the run/stop switch and it still does it. I'd like to figure this out before I wind up stranded.

I'll be checking the ground, as well as the fuses under the right panel, I assume there is some master fusible link in there or something.

[John U.]

My 97 is doing something vaguely similar. While running the bike, if it gets hot, it will occasionally completely lose electrical power, including shutting down the headlight, and then blip, it'll be back on again.

It's been doing this for 2 years, but has recently gotten worse and more frequent. I jumped the run/stop switch and it still does it. I'd like to figure this out before I wind up stranded.

I'll be checking the ground, as well as the fuses under the right panel, I assume there is some master fusible link in there or something.

Your on the right track.  The ground wire from the battery connects to aluminum and corrodes easily. If that's not it check the main contacts and fuse at the starter relay. Corrosion there will build up heat which can melt the plastic relay housing.

[Shade]

UPDATE !!! First, thanks to ALL of you for your input.

Verified battery.  Verified my installation of the starter switch assembly.  Confirmed strong battery.  Removed connector to the starter relay, did a visual and a continuity  check on fuse: good.  Reinstalled the fuse and re-seated the connector to the starter relay.  Yikes !! I had all my lights...figured I had it made.  Hit the starter button and there was a noise that came from the general vicinity of the starter relay. It was not a "pop" but rater a click of sorts or an arcing noise and I lost all my lights.  When I heard it I realized I heard the same noise when the problem fist occurred. I re-did all the above mentioned steps but I have not gotten my lights back and everything is dead.  So, because my problem SEEMS to be relay related: 1) do relays operate spasmodically or do they simply work or not work  2) Is it possible that after they have taken a jolt of electricity and the heat dissipates they "cool down" and then start working to the point that lights return? 

Would I simply be smart just to buy a new relay?   

[DeathWishBikerDude]

I just bought one,about $75.
I don't want to burn up anything else.
Electrical items can burn out at any time,even new ones.
I've read the alternator might be on it's way out also.
Check out my links in my last post in the melted main fuse thread.

[R J]

UPDATE !!! First, thanks to ALL of you for your input.

Verified battery.  Verified my installation of the starter switch assembly.  Confirmed strong battery.  Removed connector to the starter relay, did a visual and a continuity  check on fuse: good.  Reinstalled the fuse and re-seated the connector to the starter relay.  Yikes !! I had all my lights...figured I had it made.  Hit the starter button and there was a noise that came from the general vicinity of the starter relay. It was not a "pop" but rater a click of sorts or an arcing noise and I lost all my lights.  When I heard it I realized I heard the same noise when the problem fist occurred. I re-did all the above mentioned steps but I have not gotten my lights back and everything is dead.  So, because my problem SEEMS to be relay related: 1) do relays operate spasmodically or do they simply work or not work  2) Is it possible that after they have taken a jolt of electricity and the heat dissipates they "cool down" and then start working to the point that lights return?  

Would I simply be smart just to buy a new relay?    

Find this guy under the right side cover,  If it looks like this, then ya need this part to fix it, after ya move the big red wire to the slot matching your old one.   This kit is for a Gold Wing, and saves ya from having to buy the whole wiring loom.

I got mine from HDL.



Part needed if above part looks like that one.

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Thanks for showing a pic of the repair kit,looks well worth the $25.
I'm thinking you just raised the prices on the ebay valk wiring harness,as I paid about $30 for a standard,and intertstate harness for just this reason.I can cut it up if needed for connectors.

I shouldn't be complaining as I've owned my Valk for 12 years,and this is the first time I've needed to replace any parts.
I'm still running my original alternator,starter,and other original parts.

I cleaned my connections at the relay and took a ride,and when I got back,and shut down the bike,the fuse was good,but the bike was dead again.
I tapped on the switch with a screw driver and the bike came alive again.
The relay is definately on the way out.

I think I'll just cut up an old bicycle intertube and make a cover for the new relay. 

[kruzn]

I just went through diagnosing this same problem on my '97. Faint click from the starter relay, then no lights...no nothing. I found the burnt terminal on the relay and replaced it. Still nothing. I also suspected the expensive starter relay itself, but did not want to spend the $$$ to "try" one and find out that wasn't it. I finally traced it to the negative battery cable where it attaches to the back of the trans case under the alternator. Bolt was tight, no sign of corrosion. It turned out to be corrosion inside the bolt hole and behind the terminal on the end of the wire. Neither was visible.

Also, a normal continuity test from the battery to engine case showed good which had me puzzled. A symptom I noticed during my testing was that I had good 12-13V at the battery, but when I turned the ignition on the battery voltage dropped to 0.5V. Weird. So, I called my electronic engineer brother and he had me test like this:

- Battery hooked up
- Set voltmeter for 20V scale (or any scale that will read 12-14V)
- Attach negative lead from voltmeter to negative battery terminal
- Touch positive lead from voltmeter to engine case. Should read zero volts.
- While holding the + voltmeter lead on the engine case, turn ign key on. Voltage should still read 0. If it jumps to 12+V (or any other voltage over zero), you have increased resistance somewhere in the negative battery lead, or in my case the bolt. When I checked the head of the bolt it was zero, but on the case just ahead of the bolt it showed 12V, indication of bad ground at that point.
- The reason a continuity tester might not show the problem is because it requires very little current compared to the current needed for lights, etc. on the bike.

I had a heck of a time getting the bolt out as it was galded in the case and tough to get at with a center stand in the way. I ended up taking the alternator off. To solve that problem in the future, I replaced the negative battery cable with one a bit longer to reach a more accessible bolt on the trans case. I also used anti-sieze on the bolt threads and Ox-Gard (anti-oxidant compound) and two star washers on the bolt head/cable terminal. All is good now! 

[DeathWishBikerDude]

Welcome to the board,and thanks for posting.
I'll take a look at the bolt tomorrow.

[kruzn]

Thanks for the welcome.  Actually, I've been around for a long time (VRCC #46), just haven't posted for awhile (not since change to the new board). I read posts all the time though.... 

Thought I would jump in and relate my experience so maybe it will save others some diagnostic time and $$$.

Hope you find your problem. My repair was cheap (about $6), just a pain in the butt to fix....

[R J]

Thanks for the welcome.  Actually, I've been around for a long time (VRCC #46), just haven't posted for awhile (not since change to the new board). I read posts all the time though.... 

Thought I would jump in and relate my experience so maybe it will save others some diagnostic time and $$$.

Hope you find your problem. My repair was cheap (about $6), just a pain in the butt to fix....

OK, what did you find?   Ya care to share with us?    Tanx,,,,,,,,,

[DeathWishBikerDude]

I guess I could just add an extra ground to the battery.
The fuse is melting at the switch,so I know its on it's way out.
But I will get my meter out and do some detective work.

[kruzn]

RJ! How are ya? Going to CBR?

Go back to page 1 to see my post under yours about the relay plug kit....

Found bad ground...negative battery cable-to-engine case bolt...

[kruzn]

Another quick way to check the neg cable-to-engine connection w/o voltmeter:

- Turn ignition on
- Wedge screwdriver blade between end of cable and the engine case.
- If the lights come on, there's your problem!

[R J]

Another quick way to check the neg cable-to-engine connection w/o voltmeter:

- Turn ignition on
- Wedge screwdriver blade between end of cable and the engine case.
- If the lights come on, there's your problem!

99 times out of 100 thats where you will loose the ground,   if it is like MGM and all the extra wiring I have run over the years, that happens and he goes scouting for a ground, he will fry some of my added wiring around the battery, so now I have added another cable from that point on over to the frame, so he don't have to go on a scouting trip when it gets corroded inside the bolt hole.

That was a bitch to find the 1st time it happened and I'd forgotten that it did, and put him in the land of the dead.  Short memory, sorry.

[Georgia_Dave]

I found this thread while searching for my bike's symptoms and it's helped me immensely. I wanted to try and get some additional input though.

So initially suspected my ignition switch so I tried to disassemble it to get to the switch contacts. Needless to say I damaged it and ended up having to buy one used off eBay. While installing it I found the dreaded melted starter relay and it has also damaged the adjacent electrical connections that come to the 30A fuse. I repaired the connections and when I turned on my ignition switch my headlight and tail light came on. I however had no brake lights, no turn signals and no ignition power. If I bumped the starter it dimmed the headlight but didn't turn over.

So I broke out my repair manual which has schematics and determined that the brake light, turn signals and ignition power come from the ignition switch on the same circuit (the red/black wire). I disconnected the ignition switch from the main harness and measured continuity from the red/black wire to both points on the main fuse block (brake light/ turn signals share a fuse and ignition has its own). The continuity was good. So I took a short wire and jumped battery power (red wire) to the red/black wire on the connector where the ignition switch plugs in and voila my turn signals work and the starter turns over (can't start the bike because the tank is off).

So to me it sound like the ignition switch isn't right, but the seller ensures me that the bike it came off of was running. Can any of y'all give me any input?  Anything I'm missing?

Thank you in advance.

[ridingron]

   So I took a short wire and jumped battery power (red wire) to the red/black wire on the connector where the ignition switch plugs in and voila my turn signals work and the starter turns over (can't start the bike because the tank is off).   

Sounds like your repair wasn't quite right. Can you rig up a gas tank and try to start it with your jumper?

On another forum (Honda), the pictured melted connector is a known problem. The red wire is removed from the connector. The connector cleaned up and put back in place. A 30 amp fused wire is run from the battery to the red wire. All is good. The conclusion is that the factory crimp, on the red wire, was not tight and over time the resistance caused the crimped connector to over heat and melt the red plastic connector.

[Georgia_Dave]

I rigged up the tank with an extra long piece of tubing and yeah it starts. Has to be the ignition switch, doesn't it?  Or am I missing something?

[cheeseman1969]

I had the same issue. Started it last week and bam, no lights or anything. I found that my relay plug is fried. And the relay is too as the green plastic on the top was melted, crap. My questions, someone talk (picture) about a kit for the plug off a goldwing. I tried to do a search for that kit but can't find it. I can't seem to find that wire all in any of the pictures on Honda Direct or any of the sites that has the microfiche. Can someone send me the part number to that kit please. Thanks!!

[indybobm]

It may not be available anymore. I checked a couple of years ago.

[HayHauler]

Here ya go Cheeseman...  go down in this thread and look for the picture of the burnt red plug.  There is a picture of the kit right after the pic of the burnt plug.
RJ ALWAYS posted this when someone was having trouble with their bike starting.
May God rest his soul.  He was such a nice guy on the forum.  I really miss him.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,76799.msg752410.html#msg752410

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I've got a couple friends that has done this after the relay fuse fried... I've had one melt as well and I have a crashed parts bike I replaced mine with however I'm wanting to do my bikes with the ford relay and will be doing so soon.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,45371.0.html

[cheeseman1969]

HayHauler
 thanks for the info! Someone from this group just contacted me yesterday and has one in a pile of stuff he got with his Valkyrie. So he is selling me his!! I LOVE THIS GROUP!!..

[The emperor has no clothes]

Here ya go Cheeseman...  go down in this thread and look for the picture of the burnt red plug.  There is a picture of the kit right after the pic of the burnt plug.
RJ ALWAYS posted this when someone was having trouble with their bike starting.
May God rest his soul.  He was such a nice guy on the forum.  I really miss him.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,76799.msg752410.html#msg752410

Hay 
Jimmyt

+1 the place just ain't the same without him.

[edhill]

http://www.amazon.com/Caltric-Starter-Solenoid-Valkyrie-1997-2003/dp/B007473OWI?ie=UTF8&keywords=honda%20valkyrie%20starter%20relay&qid=1463287377&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

put one  in my 98 3 yrs ago.