Dead alternator

[Rocketman]

Yes, once again, I have a problem with a used vehicle purchase.  I have never managed to buy a used vehicle without it having some sort of drivability issue in the first month of my owning it.  Some more major than others, but this time, it was the battery dying while riding.  I have a rebuilt alternator in my possession (Thanks, Tinman!), but very little time to install it.  The wrench party coming up seems like an ideal time to do it, but I have to get the bike there.  So, I'm looking for opinions:  How far can you get with a fully charged battery, no alternator, and a pulled headlight fuse (and an alternator in the trunk)?
It's about 35 miles to Lyn-Del's from my place.  How many batteries do I need to carry with me as backups?

[Wanderer]

It bet it will run until it stops, Mark! Maybe a little longer with the new part in the trunk - further if you put it in the right side bag. ~Jeff

[Daniel Meyer]

Fully charged, no headlight...it ought to get you 30 miles. Keep the RPM's down though...that ignition system SUCKS the amps at high rpms.

[Rocketman]

If this was a study designed to determine who you could count on for useful information, I guess we came to a conclusion (thanks for the help, Jeff!)
Since it was actually designed to find out how far I could get on one battery, I guess we came to a conclusion on that, too (thanks for the help, Daniel!)
Now I have to decide if I'm willing to try to milk 35 miles out of it.

[cutter]

35 miles from which direction? I'm off on friday, located between Tomball and The Woodlands area. Be glad to help.

Bill

[Rocketman]

Opposite direction from you.  I'll be headed in from Seabrook, southeast of Lyn-Del's.

[cutter]

Oh well, I've pull mine 3 times now. I'ts not too bad. Getting  it past the frame is the fun part. May see ya there.

[Rocketman]

Oh well, I've pull mine 3 times now. I'ts not too bad. Getting  it past the frame is the fun part. May see ya there.

I've pulled mine once.  It was a memorable occasion, to the point of not wanting to do it again.
See you Saturday, cursing and screaming all the way.

[Rocketman]

Well, for those of ya'll who are curious:
I made it all the way on no alternator, and a fully charged battery.  I got reckless and disregarded Wanderer's advice to move the replacement alternator to the right side bag, but made it anyway.

So, here are the facts:
~35 miles.
Fully charged battery
No alternator
Two starts with the starter motor (Yes, I had to stop for fuel, since the last time I rode it, I was more concerned about getting home than any side-stops for gasoline).

When I arrived, it hadn't so much as hinted it was low on juice.  I started it twice more while I was there (mostly for curiousity).  Both of those times, it turned over just fine, but didn't want to start.  It fired when I let go of the button (battery wasn't strong enough to run the ICM AND the starter motor, but when the starter motor stopped, the ICM kicked in before the engine stopped turning).
New alternator and a charge on the battery had me back and grinning in no time.
It turns out that if you remove the center cover, it actually gives JUST enough room to tilt the alternator up and get it out that way.  It looked improbable, and not worth the effort of removing the center cover, but we tried it, and it worked.

Anyway, I'm back on the road, and happy.  Thanks for the help.

Mark

[RainMaker]

So, if the battery doesn't have enough juice, it won't start until you let go of the starter button, but if it does, then it will start with the button pressed?

I've noticed that with my bike for a while.  So maybe I'll have to consider a new battery.  The things just don't last - I only have 8 years on this one (it's the original) and while it spins the engine, your note has me concerned.

RainMaker

[Rocketman]

So, if the battery doesn't have enough juice, it won't start until you let go of the starter button, but if it does, then it will start with the button pressed?

That's correct.  It's just not able to put out enough amps to run both systems at once.  The engine keeps turning for a (very) short while after the starter motor stops drawing current, but if you're at the edge of dead, that short while is enough for the ignition system to draw current and fire the engine.

I think that maybe you take your 8 year old battery back to Honda and demand your money back, because it's done.

[cutter]

Glad ya got-r-done! Which alternator did you put in, OEM or the Aspencade model? and what do you plan to do with the old one?

[Rocketman]

It was a factory original that was removed from Tinman's, and rebuilt by a local shop.  I'm going to take two (my recently removed, and the one I removed and replaced from my other Valkyrie) over to the same shop to restore (and double) our emergency spare collection.

[cutter]

Cool. I let Honda do the first 2 rebuilds then took it to a shop in Tomball the 3rd time. It was only a month old the last time. Grrrrrrrr  The shop found a bad solder job and a diode out. No problems since. I did add a volt meter from O-Reily's.

[Rocketman]

This is my third motorcycle that I have considered putting a voltmeter on.  I haven't done it on the first two, so maybe the third time's a charm?
It's a good idea.  I'll put it on the "to-do" list.

Yeah, I'm halfway inclined to let this one play out before I have the same shop rebuild more, just to make sure they do a reasonable job, but I don't want to be caught without a spare, either.  Especially since it isn't my spare!

[Tinman]

Well I'm not one to play on Marks good nature.
He REALLY is a good guy! Really!

[Rocketman]

Well, that didn't last long.  The alternator died again earlier this week.  Not sure why.  We're asking the shop that rebuilt it to stop work on rebuilding the others, until we get some warm fuzzy feeling that this failure won't happen again.  If it takes them three weeks to rebuild the thing, and it only lasts four days, this could get old fast.

Especially at a hundred (?) bucks a pop.

Mark

[Daniel Meyer]

You need to check all your main cable connections...especially the ground cable (battery to frame)...also the main alternator wire fuse holder for corrosion etc.

One thing that can prang alternators is bad connection on the mains...removing the load (battery) spikes the voltage and kills the regulator.

(hence why, that shade-tree mechanic thing about starting the car/bike and then removing a battery cable to see if the alternator is any good is a self-fullfulling prophesy as far as alternator destruction goes).

More info can be had by having the alternator that just died checked to see what's wrong...if the regulator or diaode(s) are shot, suspect bad connections. If they have your old one ask what was wrong with it as well...

[cutter]

I feel your pain. 

[Rocketman]

Well, we got some results from the old alternators.  We now have three dead ones floating around at various shops (and one presumed dead still installed in a flooded out green/silver Valkyrie).  All three had been the factory originals, and had an open rotor as the failure.  The one that we had rebuilt, and I installed, and failed four days later, now has an internal short in the windings.  Therefore, it was something stupid the rebuild shop did.  So, they're "evaluating" to decide if they'll make it right.  I'm evaluating to decide if it's worth the frustration that could occur if this one fails AGAIN, or if I should take it somewhere else, or just buy a new one.
More to come...

[Daniel Meyer]

Don't forget the goldwing alternator option if you decide to buy...

From Jeff K's generic parts page
'97 Goldwing Aspencade
Part # is 31100-MT2-015
"The terminal & plastic insulator are different where you connect the alternator battery wire. You have to take off the capacitor that is mounted on the Gold Wing alternator and rotate the front housing to match the holes from the Valkyrie model so that it will fit."

Very much cheaper than the valk part.

[Rocketman]

Don't forget the goldwing alternator option if you decide to buy...

Definitely won't forget that one.  The flooded alternator is an Aspencade alternator.
Since you've brought that one up:
Why just a 97 Aspencade?  I'm a little surprised that different Goldwings use different alternators.  Through different model years, I could understand a little, but only one year, and only one model from that year?

[Lyn-Del]

I wondered about that as well.  Especially since I have a 91 SE in the stable, it would be great if I could keep a spare that would fit her as well.  Is the alternator different not only for years but for models?  I had thought that the eauipment package was the difference.

Checked it out on one of the parts sites - the same part number is shown for my 91 SE and the 97 Aspy.  I guess since the parts are looked up by year and model, it is just easier to to pick one.

I may look into a spare after watching Rocketman.  (And hoping his alternator jinx doesn't work this weekend!!)

[Rocketman]

Phyllis:
If our plan works out, there's no need for you to keep a spare, too.   Mike and I will both have a spare, if the rebuilder can get his (stuff) together.  You can borrow one in an emergency, and just rebuild your old one to replace the spare.

That assumes that this guy can rebuild something that lasts longer than four days.  If not, they're going to Tomball with Cutter.

Mark