Don't shoot, it's a "trigger wheel" question.

[Mr Whiskey]

So, thinking about doing a trigger wheel mod on 2K/IS.
Would like a little more "zip" & sure wouldn't complain if the mpg improved to boot.
Here's my question............ how many would say this is an accurate assessment of this mod?
This is not a quote verbatim. Been reading all the post on this subject & this seemed to sum it up best.

"In regards to the IS ICM unit, you will be advancing by programming 2 degrees advance through the 1800 – 4500 RPM range only. You don’t lose your top end. A timing wheel that has a 6-degree advance has that advance from start to finish or from 900 RPMs to red line. Because it has a fixed 6-degree advance all the way through, they lose top end. By only adding 4 degrees through modifying the timing wheel, you will benefit by not only the I/S ICM programming, but also the fixed additional 4-degree advance. You will have the 4 degree advance in the lower RPMS 900 - 1800 RPMS, full 6 degree advance in the 1800 - 4500 Mid range RPMS and back to a 4 degree above 4500 RPMS. Because the mod of only using an advance of a fixed 6-degree is all the way through, those will run rougher, usually demand high octane and reduce the top end more than you might like. I ran my Tourer with a fixed 4-degree advance before I got the I/S ICM and I noticed that it ran a little rougher and I had to run the high-test fuel. Once I added the I/S ICM unit it smoothed it out and gave me the low end, mid range and top end that I wanted. You will have an advantage if you combine the both."

As I said, this is an IS so it's already got the 2* advance by programming, IS carb springs, & I jus' cut 7.5 inches off the exhaust cans & slammed truck stacks. She's deffinately "exhaling" well. If I do this mod, it will be to a factory trigger wheel filed down. I understand this should eliminate any cold start prob's that are associated with some "round tooth" after market wheels.
What say y'all? Thanks!
Peace, Whiskey.

[98valk]

see the curves for the I/S and std/tourer in the link, they are both the same from approx 4200 rpms to redline. at 6k rpm both are starting to lose HP due to being over 25-26 degrees advance. common additional engine protection put in by manufacturers, besides redline cutout. all engines have a base intial 3.5 degrees advance.
the I/S is only different from 2k-42k rpms and has a steeper quicker curve from idle to 2k.
factorypro.com only recommends a 4 TW for valkyries.
 The 6 TW was orginally designed for the Goldwing GL1500 which has ZERO degrees of advance at idle vs the valkyries 3.5 degrees.

http://timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/trigger_wheel_plus_dyna3000.htm

[Michvalk]

With the 4 degree wheel in my I/S I got a steady 38 mpg riding normal, but I did need at least midgrade fuel to keep spark knock from happening.

[dubsider]

Standard
4* TW
IS ISM
IS carb springs
mid-grade non ethanol
always starts with the first bump (I ride year round)
32ish+ MPG

[Jess from VA]

I have two '99 Interstates, one with OE and the other with 4* wheel (both stock exhaust, piggies cut in 4* bike).  I really cannot notice any difference.  I never check mileage in any detail... go about 220 to reserve on both bikes, depending on wrist, roads, wind, etc.  At 3Krpm in 5th, I am about 62-3 MPH on one, and 66-7 MPH on the other; can't remember which (I think the lower speed at 3K is the bike with the 4*, but I could have it wrong).

I used to knock pretty bad on regular 87 with the 4* (hauling azz and up mountains, not putting along), and ran premium all the time, but after Big BF desmogged, tuned, carb synched, adj valves, changed all Orings, and rebuilt the petcock on it, it does not seem to knock like it used to on regular. I still run premium on superslab trips.

To me a 4* wheel in an otherwise stock interstate is pretty much all blow and no show.  When I change the belts in the 4* bike, an OE wheel goes back in (in 25K or so).

Finally, I have read the original Air Lake timing wheels were precision made, and that many that came later were poorly made with unreliable cuts.

[John Schmidt]

I have an early AirLake four degree wheel, used in conjunction with an I/S ICM. Also I/S carb springs, #38 slo jets, aftermarket pipes and K&N filter w/o prefilter. If I behave, I get in the upper 30's for mpg. That said...I don't get that mileage often! 

As for performance, I've never had a problem with cold temp starting. Yes, it does get cold in Florida. In winter it's often in the 30's-40's, sometimes even in the 20's but I don't ride in low temps.

[R J]

MGM is  a 1997 Green/White Tourer converted to a Trike now.  I've had a 6* wheel in MGM since before 1998.    It has I/S carb springs, & Viking needles with clip set on #3 slot, and Viking Pipes w/crossover pipe.   Tire pressure was maintained at 48# front Metzler and 35# car tire.    I run standard octane gas also.    No knocking.    I checked those plugs after installation for about 3 years everytime I got home or to a Motel for the evening.    I was looking for little aluminum balls stuck on the plug.      Never had any so I never went to Premium.     I did run Premium ONCE, and MGM gave me to understand he didn't want that sheet running through him.   My mileage for 242K has averaged 35.7, I got 17 out of him once coming home from Sturgis on super slab.     We were running anywhere from a Dollar to a Dollar and a quarter.   Mostly ran Dollar to Dollar ten.

[eric in md]

BANG  !!!!    gotcha boy

[Mr Whiskey]

CA, "the I/S is only different from 2k-42k rpms." Now that would be some IS, haha!
I know you ment 4200 rpm. Been reading alot of your old post on this subject & appreciate the insights, (especially those ign. curves). That's mostly why I'm leaning toward the 4*. To help with the over advancing. I know I'll still over advance if I'm really gettin' on it but I think 4* up to 1800, 6* between 1800 & 4500, & back to only 4* above will at least help with that alittle & should suit my riding style.

Michvalk, with mileage in the upper 30's I could stand to run premium if I had too. I'm gettin' 29 or 30 to & from work, course I'm always in a hurry then. Worst was 17 on the superslab.

Dubsider, not much non ethanol 'round here. What kinda trigger, aftermarket of mod factory? Don't want cold start issues. I've ridden in 18* weather here more than once.

Jess from VA, "When I change the belts in the 4* bike, an OE wheel goes back in" , if I mod the factory wheel & don't like it then I can jus' move it back to original without havein' to pull it apart again, or at least that's what I'm readin' here.

John Schmidt, that sounds like a sweet set up. Gets plenty of fuel, even down low, inhales well, exhales well, & less weight! Bet that thing will GO!
If you don't mind my askin', what kind of aftermarket pipes & are you havin' to run premium fuel?

R J, I'm willin' to bet your Viking needles & that crossover help eliminate "knock". I'm gonna check the plugs pretty regular after I do this, if I do it. Thanks for the info on what to look for.

eric in md, where are ya's little buddy! You haven't sent me anything pornographic in weeks! You don't call anymore! I'm hurt, truely,  !
Peace, Brother

Thanks to all who've taken the time, (once again) to help try & learn me somethin'!
Peace, Whiskey.

[98valk]

Whiskey, yea that would be a special I/S. 
cool handle also, gotta be a good story.

yep higher advance at hwy cruisng speeds will increase mpg. I use the dyna and OEM TW modded for 6 degrees, so 9.5 degrees at idle.
actually I cheated a little and its 6.5 with 10 at idle. need to put a timing light on it to verify.
using the ect mod will add a few degrees at 3k rpms.
what are your ignition plans?

this is a good write up on the GL1500 ignition system. I haven't seen yet why this ignition could not be installed on valkyries. I have already acquired a later yr ICM and wiring harness. still need to acquire the sensors.
http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-goldwing-technical-forum/320266-gl1500-ecm-ignition-timing.html

[Mr Whiskey]

CA, my handle is from my niece. She was young, 6/7 or so & had seen me show up at my Brothers so many times with a bottle of whiskey in each hand that one night she walked out on the porch & announced to the whole house, "Mr. Whiskey's here"! It kinda stuck.
  I'd love a dyna, that I thought would work. Readin' it requires 2 volts from the pickups & valk only produces 'bout .7 so they're notorious for being "fickle" to say the least. Did you have to do anything to resolve this issue? IE "tweek" the pickups or does the modded factory trigger jus' give it enough to function correctly? (as opposed to an aftermarket wheel.) Are you runnin' it in retard mode with the 6.5* modded trigger to prevent too much advance at high rpm?
  The ECT mod would be nice, if it could be tricked into carrying the 10* advance alittle further into the rpm range. Seems it's droppin' out jus' about where you need it most.
  My ignition plans............ jus' lookin' for alittle more! I admit, my Brother Lawdog bought Warlock's 99 Tour with the 6* installed, & that damn thing spanks the monkey, period! I'm not gonna beat him on an IS & I know it, but it runs so good on high test in the low & mid range that it got me thinkin'................. is there more to be had, on the cheap, without givin' up too much somewhere else or hurtin' the motor. Caint get much cheaper than mod a factory part that's already in there. I don't "power" shift much, or wheely, or drag race, or do burn outs, or ride triple digits, often. I do carve! Hard, long, low, & mean! Hard on & off the throttle & the brakes in the upper rpm range, repeatedly. These mountains jus' beg the big machine to come & get some! That being said, I'm 2 up alot. Sugar's crazy & doesn't seem to care how I ride it. Then we also pull the (over) loaded trailer off & on & like to sight see. I love that girl!
Sorry, this seems to have turned into a love story 
  Any who, I already thought  the vacuum advanced Goldwing ign would be the best possible ign mod by far! If you ever make that happen, I jus' might show up at your house goin' "how'd you do that", haha!
Thanks Brother, ride hard!
Peace, Whiskey.

[98valk]

CA,  
I'd love a dyna, that I thought would work. Readin' it requires 2 volts from the pickups & valk only produces 'bout .7 so they're notorious for being "fickle" to say the least. Did you have to do anything to resolve this issue? IE "tweek" the pickups or does the modded factory trigger jus' give it enough to function correctly? (as opposed to an aftermarket wheel.) Are you runnin' it in retard mode with the 6.5* modded trigger to prevent too much advance at high rpm?

never had a problem, I checked the clearances and the voltage and it was good to go. I use the 10 degree retard, engine only likes the max 10 degrees at idle. I don't add the 10 degrees until 2500 rpms. using regular gas no problems. checking the plugs with an eye piece, adding 10 degrees before 2500 rpm will show some black spots on the plug.
only use the oem TW the square teeth make a difference, that is all industry uses.

[markj #3467]

Been years since I posted on thie here forum. the trigger wheels were first made for the 97s, and were 6 degrees advance. I have one in my IS and did have one in my tourer.  Some found they fit the gl1500 wings so I had one in my 92 SE and a K&N filter, ran faster than my cousins stocker.

Use the 6 degree, it will be fine, if you can find one that is. Or slot the original one and move it a little at a time, many did just that back when these were new.  The blower also fits the wing, there are a few around maybe?

Still have the IS, it is a trike now, my wife rides it. Broke the drive shaft doing a burnout  she wont let me ride it now...

[Mr Whiskey]

CA, do you think adding 4* (with the IS +2* in mid range) will hurt the motor in the long run?
I intend to mod the factory wheel.

markj, 2nd post! Sincerely, I feel honored you responded. My Brother's runin' the 6* Airlake on a '99 Tour with an IS trunk & aftermarket windshield & it definitely hurts his top end.  It seems to "flatten out" 'bout 90 mph & he has to kinda "push it" to stay with my factory IS. This was before my newest pipe mod, we haven't run them again yet. Now outta the hole is a different story altogether. He spanks me on take off, every time. Hell, I'm not sure there's much in this town he wouldn't romp on from the light!
Not lookin' for a "drag bike", jus' think there's alittle more to be had. Don't wanna hurt the motor though, that's why I went lookin' for info here.
"Broke the drive shaft doing a burnout"! Seriously? Damn, "& that's all I got to say about that".
Peace, Whiskey.

[eric in md]

hey whiskey boy .... im sure missing sugar.

[Mr Whiskey]

hey whiskey boy .... im sure missing sugar.

She laughed her ass off at that "one bad ass & one retard" thing you sent me!!
She still tells me "You better get your helmet................."
She misses ya too's.
Call, I lost your #, (& the dang ink pen, Gretel!).
Peace, Whiskey.

[98valk]

CA, do you think adding 4* (with the IS +2* in mid range) will hurt the motor in the long run?
I intend to mod the factory wheel.

factorypro.com recommends 4 TW. From my experience with the dyna and inspecting plugs the engine does not like a lot of advance under load at lower rpms.
The goldwing with a vacuum advance ICM is the way it should be done, not one advance curve like the valkyrie has which really is a low engineered cheap system, but it will run and never hurt itself.

[markj #3467]

markj, 2nd post!

Um, well actually, I was a member here in like 98 or so. My post numbers do not reflect this at all.
Owned a lot of bikes and several valks.

I remember the original valk was the reason for this board, he didnt live in Tenn then either   was yellow........ was in magazines........ LaMonster......  met LaMonte in person up in custer years ago

I am a wrench, worked on every type of car, truck and motorcycle. Have done all the mods on the IS and it sure will run hard on top. My tourer was the same.  The angle of the driveshaft after triking it is huge, I suspect that had a lot to do with breaking the U joint.   Altho when them 15s hooked up it launched very hard, front end almost came up    then bang.  

I could get the front end up on my 99 tourer.