New member: 97' with starting problems after storage

[Cappy]

Hello. I just joined the forum recently and have been trying to navigate the site with some difficulty. I have not used chat rooms much, but with the help of some members on the General Board, I have found my way here. Thanks to all who assisted me on the way. This appears to be an awesome resource. Please bear with me, as I may not have this all right yet.

Ok. Here is my story: My daughter owns a 97' Valkyrie. Yes, but she is 6'1 with a 38" inseam and trains 2,000 lb stallions. She is now in Florida, but her bike has been in storage in Minnesota. It was covered on a trailer, but not garaged, two years ago. The bike ran great when put away. Fresh gas with Stable was added to a full tank. The bike then sat idle for a year. Last November I made an attempt to start it on a nice fall weekend. It would not start. I then drained the carbs, which I did when I put it away the year before. I also removed and drained the fuel tank and added fresh gas with some carb cleaner and sprayed some into the carb through the drain ports. I attempted to start the bike again, but no success last November. The bike has now sat another year with Stable in the gas. A few days ago, with a new battery, I attempted to start the bike again, but no success.

[Michvalk]

Did you pull the plugs to see if it was getting gas? Are you engaging the choke ALL the way? The choke pushes real easy for the first little bit, then takes a hefty push to completely engage. Is the battery completely charged? It takes a fully charged battery to fire. My guess would be fuel delivery, as stabil usually looses The ability to work after about a year. Just some places to start

[Cappy]

Hi again. I guess I ran out of message space. Hope you can make sense of this continuing post:
The 97' again failed to start. A screwdriver in the plug boot and jumped to the frame did not seem to show any spark. Possibly, I did not have a solid ground. It turned over strong, so I am thinking there may be a coil problem. However, some member feedback indicates that is not very likely. Also, I now understand that if my neutral indicator light is on, the kickstand and another problematic circuit will be bypassed. So if it is cranking, I guess it should be fireing if it is getting fuel. So I assume I am looking at a carb rebuild. Uggh! Yet, I remain hopeful that someone has an idea about something stupid I am missing. Note, that I am not new to the 1500, as I put 117,000 on my 89' Goldwing which I recently sold. Over the years nothing, but gas, oil, tires and one stator. Although, I did have some carb problems with that due to improper storage, so I tried to take precautions on the Valkyrie. We never intended it to be in storage for so long. Thanks for any help.

[Cappy]

Howdy. It is good to know I got through. I ran out of space on my first message, and just posted the rest. Thanks for your reply. Last year I believe pulled and check the pulgs and they were wet. i haven't tried that yet this time, as I thought I get some advice first. I think I did have the choke down all the way for several attempts. Although, some starting advice online recomended to use the half-way point for the Valkyrie. I tried both at differnt times. What do you think about starting ether??

[Chrisj CMA]

Its probably a weak battery.....just because it turns over doesn't rule out the battery....jump to your car and if it starts go buy a new battery, charge that new battery fully and then install it

[Chrisj CMA]

Ok, I saw on you other post that you got a new battery.  Did you charge the battery fully before putting it into service?

[Cappy]

Thanks for your reply. You may have missed the first part of my post. I have a new and fully charged battery. It is turning over strong.

[Patrick]

Remove the sparklers. Attach plug wire to one or two sparklers and ground them. You may want to use a jumper wire. Turn the key and hit the starter. look very closely for the spark. Let us know what happens.
One thing that happens with new Valk owners is improper use of the choke. Push down on the choke lever until the freeplay is taken up [1/2" or so] then continue to push it about another 1/4" or until it stops. Then start it.
Usually even if the low jets are varnished, it'll still start. It'll just run like crap at low engine speeds.
You might want to take a compression test just to make sure the engine is OK and that something hasn't happened ,like someone installing a timing belt incorrectly.

[Patrick]

See the above post.

Don't use ether !

Also, something I didn't mention in the above post. When the sparklers are out hit the button just spin the motor. Check the compression while you're at it. Oil the cylinders and spin the engine again. Sometimes dry cylinders will not draw.

[ugelstad]

Check  the petcock.  If it is stock, it runs on vacuum and will not flow fuel without vacuum.  Disconnect the fuel line and vacuum line, then with the selector in any position other than off, put a vacuum on the vacuum port.  It should flow lots of fuel when it has a vacuum on the line.  Sitting that long, the small piston in the petcock could be stuck closed or mostly closed.  Can be rebuilt with a "cover set".  With long term storage, fuel it the  most likely culprit. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Thanks for your reply. You may have missed the first part of my post. I have a new and fully charged battery. It is turning over strong.

Just so you know "turning over strong" is not all that is important.  It is a classic sign ( for a Valkyrie) of an under powered battery to turn the motor over strong and fast with no ignition because there arent enough amps to run the ignition system.........I would jump it to a known good car battery just to positively rule out that battery as the culprit, but thats just me

[Gryphon Rider]

Whoever told you to have the choke lever half-way down is clueless about Valkyries. Push the lever down until you feel a fair bit more resistance, then push another half inch until it really won't go farther. When my bike is cold, I also have to add about 1/8" turn of the throttle. When I start it for the first time in the spring, it takes a total of about 30 or 40 seconds of cranking before it starts to fire, 5 seconds at a time with 5 or 10 seconds in between to keep the starter from overheating.

[HayHauler]

Thanks for your reply. You may have missed the first part of my post. I have a new and fully charged battery. It is turning over strong.

Just so you know "turning over strong" is not all that is important.  It is a classic sign ( for a Valkyrie) of an under powered battery to turn the motor over strong and fast with no ignition because there arent enough amps to run the ignition system.........I would jump it to a known good car battery just to positively rule out that battery as the culprit, but thats just me

I agree.  Just make sure that the car isn't running while trying to jump the Valk and it will be a good test.   

Hay
Jimmyt

[R J]

Choke when FULL on, the little black knob will be pointed straight across the tank to the other handlebar.

If it isn't get your thumb on it again and PUSH HARD, you aren't going to break anything.

On my 97, you have to keep your hand off the throttle.

My 97 and a friend of mine's 97 both start the same way, NO THROTTLE.

Try it and see if it won't start.

PS:   Keep that firking starting ether as far away from it as possible.

Good luck and let us know if ya get it started.

[Hoser]

After the time it has been idle, it will take a while to find the problem(s).  Be patient there are several things that may be amiss.  Good luck.  Hoser  ???

[ValkISDan]

You will have to remove the carbs and thoroughly go through and sync them . They could be just that gummed up.

[Moonshot_1]

I know this is going to sound like a smart a** reply but its not.

Is the petcock set to the "on" position? (Been there cursed near hauled it to the shop done that)

The choke -- yeah, like RJ says, make sure it is really on. You'll see the fuel rails move below you.

I am assuming that "starting problems" means the engine is turning over briskly and just not firing.
Is that correct?

[PAVALKER]

Assuming it ran properly prior to storage, and wasn't left with a battery tender to maintain the battery.... my guess is the fuel system is clogged or the choke is not fully engaged. 

Make sure you have a fully charged battery. You will need to charge it to make sure.
Make sure fuel petcock is switched to "on"  or "reserve" up and down (not fwd and aft)
Make sure choke is fully on.... press it hard and when you think it's on, give it another push.
Make sure kill switch is off not engaged.
Turn key on, and make sure bike is in neutral (green light) before you engage starter button.
If engine cranks over but doesn't start or sounds like it wants to start, check choke one more time and try again.

Pull a plug or two and make sure you have fuel going into the cylinder (smell or see if plug is getting wet).   With the issue of long storage and Stabil in the fuel tank for so long, it could very well be that the fuel is not getting delivered and that there is a clog or blockage in the fuel system/carbs.  I have had bad experiences with Stabil gumming up and having to pull carbs to clean.  Hopefully it's the choke not being pressed all the way.

If it is getting fuel, then you need to check for spark at the plugs as was indicated above.  But my guess is either choke not fully engaged or fuel system is clogged.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Cappy]

Wow! Lots of great advice here. You guys are awesome. I will check out and recheck a few things. As I am in Minnesota, I will have to let things thaw out a bit, but will get back to you as I work through this. Thanks to all.

[Fastera]

All the replies are god information.  However, with two year old fuel that has been sitting outside will lose all of the light ends and therefore will not start.  Drain the fuel, replace it with At least two gallons of branded premium gasoline, drain the carbs, turn the petcock on, crank the engine over with the chock off and the throttle crack half way for 15 seconds.  This will creat enough vacuum to refill the carbs.  Wait 5 minutes, set a full choke, don't touch the throttle, crank the engine and it should start. 

[mmurffy03]

remove the plugs with a friend helping and 2 plug sockets and give a squirt of starting fluid in each cyl pop the plugs in as fast as you can if you get it to fire for a min then die its not a coil issue its a gas flow problem then backtrack from there

[gordonv]

Remember you need a couple of things to have the bike run. Fuel and spark.

Normally I wouldn't do anything until you know you have fuel, but you mentioned you had the spark wire off and was looking for an arch to confirm you had spark, but could not confirm.

Like already mentioned, choke on FULLY. I would continue to try to start this way, 5-10 sec at a time, until you run your battery down before it won't turn the bike over (when it starts slowing down). Do this until you start to smell fuel, or the battery runs down.

If you get fuel smell, then turn off the choke, and try a couple more times cranking and see if it starts. If still no joy, charge your battery back up, use another known working car battery, and this time look towards the electrical issues. Come back then with what you have found out.

If you don't get any fuel smell, then I would say you do not have any fuel delivery, and that needs to be addressed. Again, come back with the results and get advise of how to proceed.

A drained battery does not have the power to turn the starter AND to power the coils. Most bikes "start" after you release the starter button.

I feel IF I wrote the above clear enough, this should point to one of the 2 issues that would make the bike not run, no fuel or no spark.

[Ricky-D]

Hell, I wouldn't even mess with it..

Leave it alone until warm weather comes.

You're gonna fuss with it and get it started

and then just put it back where it was for

the rest of the cold season.

***

[salty1]

Not being a smart arse, but have you made sure the kill switch is off. Cycle it on & off a few times. I like Murphy's suggestion on the use of starter fluid to eliminate the idea of a bad coil(s).

[indybobm]

Something to think about. Unless all of the coils are bad or all of the carbs are blocked, the bike should fire on at least some cylinders. If none of the cylinders fire, then it might be an electrical supply problem to the coils or a fuel delivery problem that affects all six carbs.

[Willow]

There is something no one has mentioned.  If there's a hole in the vacuum line to your carb the petcock may not open to allow fuel to flow.

You can verify you're getting fuel to the carbs by loosening one or more of the drain screws to see that fuel flows out.

Fresh gasoline was a really good suggestion.  Push that choke lever until you can't push it any further.

[Patrick]

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,61655.0.html


The long response contained a lot.

[John Schmidt]

Well, too bad it's not in Florida. Even with our warmer climate we still have such problems if it sits too long. I'd be more than happy to lend a hand if it were not 1500 miles away. 

First, if you're not going to be riding it anyway, then I agree with Ricky D....leave it alone until riding season comes again. Why duplicate your efforts in another few months. Otherwise, start with fresh gas...that alone will make a difference when running. Drain the bowls as suggested to see if any gas is in there. If not, then you have a delivery problem and my guess would be the petcock...the weakest link in the Valk fuel delivery system. If there is gas in the bowls, then my guess is the slow jets are plugged up tighter than a bull's butt in fly time. Being from ManySoda, I'm sure you know what that is. 

[Denny47]

I agree with Patrick, Do Not use Ether or Starting Fluid, same thing. If anything, spray a little WD-40 into the cylinders. If it is cranking over, it is not the kill switch or side stand switch. If all else fails and it is not firing, check all wiring to be sure mice have not chewed thru the wiring.

[Cappy]

Again, to all who are contributing, I thank you. The idea of waiting until riding season is tempting. Actually, I could just wait until the bike is hauled to Florida and work on it in the warmer weather. However, as the bike and I are kinda stuck in Minnesota for a bit, I actually have some time to work on this project. Once in Florida, my time will be limited. Yet, I am getting great ideas for a plan of attack. I hope to get the bike inside a warm working place shortly and begin the process . i will keep you all posted. Please, feel free to continue with your suggestions, as I am learning a lot about how great minds think. 

[ValkISDan]

If you are just stuck there is a Valk guru in Blaine. His name is Terry and he owns Cycle Tec 761-792-2331. I live just north of the twin cities if you are close by.

[Cappy]

Hi Valksters:     I have an update on my starting problems on the 97' after storage. I did attempt one update earlier, but it didn't seem to post. So I will try again. Ok. I began with attempting a start with a new, fully charged battery, with the chock FULL down. First without throttle, then with between 1/8 to 1/2 throttle turn. Not successful. Then, pulled a plug and didn't find it really wet. Cleaned the plug and put it in the boot and jumped it to the frame. There appeared to be a good spark. I pulled and cleaned another plug and shot some starter fluid into each cylinder, and quickly reinstalled plugs and tried starting. A brief, but encouraging, Chug/pop occured, I believe indicating some ignition. Therfore, I am thinking a fuel problem. So I drained fuel from the tank, and pulled the tank. I purchased some 91 octane non-ethanol fuel, and began to research the forum for info on the petcock problems and the Pingle debate. I pulled the petcock, and not finding a screen attached, drained all fuel. I saw no indication of rust or debris in the fuel, and no screen either. I followed the link a member provided, and dismantled the petcock, and used carb cleaner on all parts. (cont.)

[Cappy]

(cont.)     After pulling the tank I noticed the air box and discovered it was time to replace the air filter, which I ordered and just received. Upon attempting to clean the petcock I found the diaphram was strongly attached at the center and through the hole in the middle section, to a part on the other side. It would not release with gentle efforts and cleaner, so I took it to mean it was designed to be that way( but, I really?). Anyway, the diaphram did not completely separate, so I did my best to seat & reassemble the petcock. However, a meager attempt to create vacuum through the smaller tube did not seem encouraging. I did not see the diaphram move in the larger tube, but I didn't really have a good hose to attempt this test with. So I am thinking I have to get a "cover set" from somewhere and rebuild the petcock or get a Pingle before I can proceed further. Therefore, any more specific advice would be appreciated. How am I doing??

[hubcapsc]

Look hard for that screen, it is probably up in the hole where the petcock came out. a
lot of people miss it the first time they pull the petcock.

With the petcock out, you can test it for goodness...

Someone else will have to accurately describe the mighty-vac vacuum test, I use the
test at the end of this article: http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/petcock.htm

-Mike

[Bone]

Here is the cover set it will give you a new diaphram.


The part number has changed.
I bought the kit in 2010 after a tear in the diaphram. While waiting for the mail someone posted an article about converting the stock petcock to manual. I gave that a try and never opened the cover set when it arrived. Have to turn the gas off everytime I shut down but had done that my entire riding life. Been cross country twice still working.

[Cappy]

Well, it looks like I will be buying a new cover set. I believe the picture Bone sent shows the second part from the left is stuck to the diaphram through the middle section on my petcock.

[Patrick]

Why not try to rig a little fuel tank just to get this monster running without having to worry about vacuum. Then open the carburetor drains and run some fuel thru them. Then try and start it.

[hubcapsc]

Why not try to rig a little fuel tank just to get this monster running without having to worry about vacuum. Then open the carburetor drains and run some fuel thru them. Then try and start it.

I'm not saying this would happen to anyone else here other than me...



-Mike "be careful out there..."

[gordonv]

Why not try to rig a little fuel tank just to get this monster running without having to worry about vacuum. Then open the carburetor drains and run some fuel thru them. Then try and start it.

+1

Also, since you don't mind working on the bike, change the petcock from vacuum to manual. When you put the diaphragm back together, you put it on the wrong side of the spacer, and now it stays open all the time. It now relies on you turning it off at the switch.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,37577.0.html

Good luck, keep the posts coming.

[Cappy]

I am waiting for a new petcock cover set to arrive. In the meantime I thought I would pull, clean and check the gap on all the plugs. I was wondering if could take a small container of fresh gas and connect it to the fuel intake hose and attempt a start. I thought drawing some fresh gas into the carbs and then pulling the drain plugs would be helpful, especially if there was some fuel conditioner in it. Maybe, I would also get lucky and get an actual start. What do you think ??? Also, I lost the small clamp on the vacuum hose. What is the chance a local auto parts store would have them?