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Author Topic: great darksider thread  (Read 1009 times)
98valk
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Posts: 13518


South Jersey


« on: December 02, 2013, 08:46:42 AM »

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=931322

other bikes listed FJR, DL650
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
justintyper
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Posts: 178


syracuse,ny


« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2013, 02:38:28 PM »

this was my fav post of the whole thread:
Wow, and I thought oil threads were crazy. I'm a friction and wear scientist who has done a bunch of work in the tyre industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrphotoman  View Post
I can only imagine how horrible the squirm is on a bike lmao.
Less bad due to less weight, but the effects might be more obvious. No worse than a summer tyre going greasy, and much safer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando  View Post
Imagineers are wrong all the time, BTW. They also often have to work within many constraints that home builders/modders/farklers do not.

Car tire development is also more advanced in many areas than MC tire development. For example...Many MC tires are not even safe to use or store in temperatures below freezing. They typically are not made with all-season/winter compounds/construction. The rubber/carcass can actually be damaged by freezing.
This is very very true. I have been utterly shocked at the state of moto tyres - it is virtually impossible to get state-of-the-art compounds on MC tyres, and FSM help you if you want to talk tread blocking and profiling with the reps. On top of that, the constructions.... it's enough to give a rider a heart attack. I'd consider going dark if just to get the benefit of engineers who are working on serious projects. I get the sense that MC tyres are a nice side project for the tyre companies, but not something they invest real research money in. Otherwise, we would see more tyre failures in racing. We are simply no where near the engineering limit of MC tyres, and no one is really trying to get there. :sad:

Speaking of research, may I opine on contact patch here? The contact patch area is the same. The shape changes a lot. But for a given load and given tyre pressure, the contact patch area is constant regardless of the profile of the tyre. Which means that all of the discussion of contact patch should be focused on the shape of it. And here, radial construction means that you will not even have that much of an issue. What you actually get with a CT is that the patch becomes narrower and longer in cornering. This is not optimal, but with the advanced tread compounds used, rarely matters.

The trend in car tyre construction of late is to go to a fully squared tread to increase visual width. This does not improve handling in cars - it increases the steering effort there, too. It reduces straight line grip while increasing lateral grip. Have a look at most car (non-drag-) racing tyres - the tread surface is crowned to encourage sharper steering response and improve power management. This is the same for MC tyres, to a greater extreme. It is also the reason that most CT users seem to end up settling on snows - the tread of a snow tyre is more crowned and typically narrower for a given section width. These features are designed in for better performance on snow, and help the performance when used on a MC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1  View Post
That is Coulombs's Law, Friction is independent of surface area. Good thing that we use the term traction, otherwise it could get confusing.
Um, just so you know, about three-four years ago, it was shown that Coulomb's Law is actually not as 100% as it's been held to be in the past. The current proper statement of the law is that friction is independent of observed contact area. We know now that the actual contact area is quite different than the observed contact area. And friction is very much dependent on the actual contact area.

Traction is the term used to describe friction in the presence of rolling. For all tyres, traction is better than friction.  Unless you're drifting, and then it's all about managing your slide/roll ratio.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 03:29:02 AM by justintyper » Logged
HayHauler
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Posts: 7202


Pearland, TX


« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2013, 05:51:25 PM »

Oh thanks CA!!!  I wasted about an hour reading most of those threads.  Hahaha. Some good ones, but lots of bickering too. 

Hay Cool
Jimmyt
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VRCC# 28963
old2soon
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Posts: 23402

Willow Springs mo


« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2013, 06:14:08 PM »

Oh thanks CA!!!  I wasted about an hour reading most of those threads.  Hahaha. Some good ones, but lots of bickering too. 

Hay Cool
Jimmyt
   Yup-had to keep on lookin and make fer sure it weren't the V R C C.  2funny RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check.  1964  1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240  2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
Fla. Jim
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Posts: 459


#166 White City Florida, VRCCDS0143


« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 08:47:12 AM »

Only read a few pages... My favorite so far is this one.   angel

"I had read about the darkside and every time the subject comes up, you get two very different sides. There's the people that have tried it and love it and then there's the people that condemn it as the worst possible thing in the world to do. They won't try it and insult anyone who has the gall to put a car tire on a motorcycle.

Personally, I thought it would handle like ass. I really thought it was a bad idea. But, then why are there so many people in favor of it? Out of all my research, I only ever found one person that tried it and decided it wasn't for him.

So, being of a scientific mind and experimental nature, I decided that when my MC tire wore out, I'd try it. I picked up a nail in the road about 3 months ago and decided it was time.

I mounted a car tire to my bike, and went out on a test ride with the intentions of creating my own opinion and of being the informed voice to tell all those darksiders how bad of an idea it was. I could test it myself and prove to them how much the handling was negatively affected. I was will to risk $70 on a tire for an informed opinion knowing full well that I would likely take it right back off and pony up the $200 for a "real" tire.

I failed. I couldn't prove the darksiders wrong. The handling was by and large unchanged. Really, there was no real difference that I could feel. I've been riding motorcycles for 30 years. I've had this one for the last 6 years and know it well. There really was nothing to get used to. The bike handles like a bike.

The only real differences were all good ones. Riding on gravel, for some reason, was drastically improved. I can't explain it, but it feels so much more secure. My bike used to feel sketchy on gravel roads, but now I'm perfectly comfortable at 60 mph and it's alot of fun powersliding around corners.
Traction on the rear tire is greatly increased - in all situations. I expected straight line acceleration and braking to be better - and it is. But, even hard acceleration out of the corners is better. I used to be able to break the back end loose and step it out a little. But, it stays planted now. Which is even more impressive considering that the tire is a little smaller in diameter, so the bike is geared lower. If the traction were the same, it'd be even easier to break the tire loose.

I really don't see any reason to go back to a motorcycle tire on the back of my cruiser. My lean angle is limited by hard parts way before it is limited by the tire - even with me hanging way off to the inside. "

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Former BMW Guy
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

Apple Valley, MN


« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 09:39:25 AM »

I'm gonna put motorcycle tires on my car.

JP
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Motorcycling is not, of itself, inherently dangerous.
It is however, extremely unforgiving of: inattention, ignorance, incompetence or stupidity.
Fla. Jim
Member
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Posts: 459


#166 White City Florida, VRCCDS0143


« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 11:01:50 AM »

I'm gonna put motorcycle tires on my car.

JP

Cool make sure and do a detailed write up and include pics so I can pick the right ones for my explorer.  angel

My Darkside...30k ago still have over half the rubber on the rear. Need new front though as my rear-front tire has finaly wore out

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