another fearful non CT user

[98valk]

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-goldwing-technical-forum/400426-design-differences-between-car-motorcycle-rim-tire.html


what the guy misses IMHO is 3-4k lbs are not being put on the CT MC rim combo.
still a great read, design wise of M/C and car rims.

[old2soon]

Yeah-saw this before-BUT I have 44000+ miles D/S on three different car tires. MY results MAY NOT be your results. RIDE SAFE.

[Punisher]

Interesting read on the design and physics behind it all but it completely ignores massive amounts of empirical data.

[R J]

Well maybe what we should be doing then is putting screws all the way around the rim on both sides to hold the tire where it should be.   Thats what we used to do on the race car, drag race that is.      I also think Dudley Perkins used to do that to my race bike he sponsored.

I'm like old2soon, I've got around 98,000+ miles on a c/t and I never had a bead slip or seperate.     I don't think those Good Year Triple Tread, could slip if they wanted to.   They were almost impossible to get on the rim.

[MarkT]

Wellllll,   that's all impressive engineering and I used to use that sort of stuff way back when and I'm sure it gives geeks a woody but it completely ignores the fact that a bunch of us have been using CTs on bikes for years and millions of miles and most of the reports are positive.  I have not experienced any type of tire failure with both CTs I chose including issues with the bead or any leaking or punctures - which I have experienced with bike tires (though not the bead thing).  I have experienced with my current tire, excellent traction, smooth ride, and handling that's OK by me.  Not to mention really good wear.   It DOES matter which tire you pick and to a lessor degree what pressure you run but I can say for sure that after my first experience was not so good with a GYTT I did find a tire I'm TOTALLY happy with and if I ever wear it out I'll either repeat the choice or maybe experiment with another following the same criteria - look for one with a rounded profile and then get the feedback from the bike community on how that tire does.  Works for me.

[Tx Bohemian]

what the guy misses IMHO is 3-4k lbs are not being put on the CT MC rim combo.

Not really.

That is explained in the article.  The load rating is not just the weight of a vehicle but the forces generated on the tire in driving situations. And, in part, it explains that a CT is expected to share these loads with the other three tires.

I didn't get to read the whole article but it talks a lot about caster and camber angles which deals with the front tires.
As far as I understand the CTs are put on the rear only around here.  Or do some install them on the front?

[98pacecar]

 

Do ya, have,,,,,,,,,,,,, da,,,  cliffsnotes version?   

[Gryphon Rider]

The load rating is not just the weight of a vehicle but the forces generated on the tire in driving situations.

The load rating on the  sides of tires is the static maximum load they are designed for at the given pressure.  I.e., if you put a scale under each tire on a car, as far as the tires are concerned, you can load the car until each scale measures the load rating, then you can go for a drive.  The dynamic loads placed on the tire under normal driving conditions do not need to be considered when selecting tire load rating.  The rating takes into consideration that cornering, accelerating, braking, and bumps can temporarily increase the actual load on the tire far beyond the rated load.

[Hoser]

Fearful?  Maybe just not interested.  I'm not afraid of car tires, some off my best friends ride on them.  Does that mean I have to use them?  I don't think so.  What say you, my friends that use them? Am I afraid of them, or just choosing not to? (actually, the reason is my MT needs replaced around the same time as my bike needs maintenance, between 10 and 20 thousand miles. I do it all at once.)   Hoser    

[2qmedic]

About a year ago, a Honda parts guy told me what an irresponsible and dangerous motorcyclist I was because I was an accident waiting to happen. He went on and on about how a CT will not work on a MC (even though he had never ridden on a CT). I just said it isn't for everyone and I can't argue with tire design...I just know it works, it feels a little different, but it works well.

I am right at 50k miles on my GYTT (yea, it's worn out). I had the corner/edge rounded off before mounting it. All I have to say is that it sticks better than any MC tire I have used.
Only real downside would be to just be careful making the transition onto freshly milled asphalt.
Cheers  

[PAVALKER]

About a year ago, a Honda parts guy told me what an irresponsible and dangerous motorcyclist I was because I was an accident waiting to happen. He went on and on about how a CT will not work on a MC (even though he had never ridden on a CT). I just said it isn't for everyone and I can't argue with tire design...I just know it works, it feels a little different, but it works well.

I am right at 50k miles on my GYTT (yea, it's worn out). I had the corner/edge rounded off before mounting it. All I have to say is that it sticks better than any MC tire I have used.
Only real downside would be to just be careful making the transition onto freshly milled asphalt.
Cheers  

Curious how/where you got the tire corners/edges rounded off before mounting??  Who does that?

[Fritz The Cat]

I have to disagree with the "feels different" part. I've never notice a difference either in handling or in cornering. Maybe I'm just not a very sensitive rider.

[Tx Bohemian]

The load rating is not just the weight of a vehicle but the forces generated on the tire in driving situations.

The load rating on the  sides of tires is the static maximum load they are designed for at the given pressure.  I.e., if you put a scale under each tire on a car, as far as the tires are concerned, you can load the car until each scale measures the load rating, then you can go for a drive.  The dynamic loads placed on the tire under normal driving conditions do not need to be considered when selecting tire load rating.  The rating takes into consideration that cornering, accelerating, braking, and bumps can temporarily increase the actual load on the tire far beyond the rated load.

Yes, you are correct.

[Jess from VA]

Interesting read on the design and physics behind it all but it completely ignores massive amounts of empirical data.[/b]

No kidding.  

Some months ago I happened to be having a conversation with a guy who turned out to have spent a career in tire design and manufacture.  He proceeded to amaze me with vast quantities of facts and figures about tire design and construction, load, wheels, and on and on.  He was certain he could convince me of my heresy in running car tires on my bikes, if I just let him speak long enough and could comprehend his engineering information.  

After a while I interrupted him and said I appreciated all the information, but there was nothing he could say which would negate the fact of tens of thousands of riders successfully running car tires for many years and miles with no flaming death or any other documented failures ever actually reported by anyone.   But, but, but....    Sorry, no butts.  They work really well, and I will use them forever until they come out with a bike tire that can even come lose to competing and performing with a car tire, and at the same price as a car tire.   Well...... you're an asshole.

Yes, when logic cannot prevail, always fall back on personal abuse.  

I'm glad that never happens here.    

[Rio Wil]

When looking at the tire footprints when cornering, I am not sure which way the car is turning to produce the pictured results.  But in my mind (however feeble that might be) when a car is turning left, the left side of the tire tends to be picked up and the weight is transferred to the right side of the tread.  In our usage of the c/t on the rear, when making a left turn the weight is transferred to the left side of the tire  tread, and the sidewalls don't flex near as much (if the tire is running well inflated  40-44 psi) a completely different point stress load.  In beginning a turn, the footprint is decreased as the tire rolls over to the outer edge and as the turn is increased, the contact patch would tend to decrease, however the increased suspension load would compress the outer edge and tend to flatten the edge and maintain the contact patch size. The tire would virtually never get to the point of running on the side wall as their pictures show.

In the case of a car, when making a left turn the tread and sidewalls flex to the right....in our application, the tread gets pulled to the left keeping the sidewalls pretty much straight.......

Am I just in need of another wee bit of the single malt....or is this comparing apples to oranges in this analysis.


 

[art]

155k on car tires and will not go back.

[donaldcc]

   I use MC tire and happy with it but have no problem with CT users.

   I thought the article was very good and the guy obviously did a lot of research.  I think it is nice to have the science behind the decisions. I know that you CT guys have some "butt science" to go along as well.

 

[2qmedic]

Curious how/where you got the tire corners/edges rounded off before mounting??  Who does that?

Allow me to give a more acurate statement.
I had the tire trued. The tire was mounted on a car rim and then the "squareness" on the edge of the tread was taken off so it was more rounded. Then it was removed from the car rim and I took the tire and had it mounted on the MC rim.

I have to disagree with the "feels different" part. I've never notice a difference either in handling or in cornering. Maybe I'm just not a very sensitive rider.

The CT "handles a little differently and also has a little different feel. I would say it is different depending on the PSI and the tire installed. It seems there are a number of riders who don't care for the GYTT, possibly for this reason? In past years, when going to a different MC tire I have noticed different characteristics depending on tread design, traction, or even having more/less stability.
 

[2qmedic]

Rio Wil

I find your statement concerning the "footprint" interesting. I had to stop and look more closely at the tread size that was pictured.

The motorcycle tire footprint appears to be enlarged and the car tire is very small. Why does it matter? because this is misleading and gives the impression that there is no real difference in the actual contact area between the MT vs CT. In reality, the CT footprint would be considerability larger than what is shown in this article.

As pictured, I don't see how this can give a good comparison on the actual contact area (CT vs MT). The only way it could be compared is of having the same height or outside diameter of both the MC and CT tires and then to actually have the foot print aligned over a grid to have an actual bais of which to compare the surface area of each.

Like I have said before, I have considerably more traction with the CT. I could break the MT loose anytime I wanted, not so on the CT.

Bottom line here...you can't judge the actual size of the footprint (MT vs CT) from those pictures as they are generic samples.

[98pacecar]

So how many peeps actually run, a CT on da back?    ???

Do we know? 

Think,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 30, 40 %,,,,, errrr what? 

[DarkSideR]

My Darkside # is 263. So there are at least 263 CT's on Valks here. But that isn't counting Goldwings.. in which there are probably more.

BTW we have all heard this all before.. I have seen all the documentation, but the proof is in the puddin. On my 2nd CT.

My response to to anyone who questions the CT on my bike is.. "Well whom ever made the tire probably had some sort of vehicle in mind, but anyone can clearly see this tire is on the back of a motorcycle."

That usually is enough to deter the fiery death lecture. 

[Gryphon Rider]

So how many peeps actually run, a CT on da back?    ???

Do we know? 

Think,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 30, 40 %,,,,, errrr what? 

Probably the best way to know is to come to Inzane and start walking the rows of Valkyries with a notepad and pencil in hand.

[98pacecar]

My Darkside # is 263. So there are at least 263 CT's on Valks here. But that isn't counting Goldwings.. in which there are probably more.

I have a Pacific Coast as well,, and lots of those guys run C T too....   

Not for me,,, on either bike..     

Different strokes,, n' all dat....   

I was just curious,,, about  da percentage...    ???

[98pacecar]

Probably the best way to know is to come to Inzane and start walking the rows of Valkyries with a notepad and pencil in hand.

Not, plannin on being there,,,,, so no workie fer me.......   

[Jess from VA]

There's been attempts at polling car tire use before, but a) only a small percentage of VRCC members actually post on a regular basis, and b) as soon as CT comes up as a subject, many pass it by since it is often a contentious subject/thread.

My best guesstimate is a large minority. (Mostly of higher mile, experienced riders)

Unless you really put miles on your bike(s) (8-10K per year), so you are routinely burning thru rears, most would not see a need to do it.  CT's have many benefits of traction, rain/gravel/dirt stability, less chance of flats/punctures (long distance reliability), smooth straight Hiway travel, and braking, but the driving feature for me was cost of multiple bike tire rears on two bikes, and the headache of changing them so often.  A 36 thousand mile tire for around $120 kicks ass.

That said, you cannot go 36K between rear end service/lube.  10K is the norm, and pushing it out to 15K may be fine, but not 36K.

I was a pretty big skeptic myself; it took me several years of reading CT threads here and elsewhere (there is at least one CT specific multibike forum on Delphi), watching CT videos, and burning thru multiple expensive ME880s (180s, not 200s, and the only bike tires I care to run on my Valks) at 8K mi each, before I tried it.  Never going back.

I would recommend anyone considering it to borrow a buddy's CT bike for a ride first, but that was not an option for me.  And your first (and only) ride on one is not likely to be your favorite ride.  It generally takes a few weeks to get comfortable with them. After years of them on both bikes, I do not even think about it.

It is hard to believe posters who say they feel no difference at all in handling (calling no one a liar).  There is a difference, but it is not huge and easily learned and mastered in a few weeks of riding.  Yes, some tires are better than others, but I don't think any CTs are perfectly neutral like bike tires.    

[Punisher]

It is hard to believe posters who say they feel no difference at all in handling (calling no one a liar).  There is a difference, but it is not huge and easily learned and mastered in a few weeks of riding.  Yes, some tires are better than others, but I don't think any CTs are perfectly neutral like bike tires.    

After trying a variety of CT's I can honestly say the Taxi tire comes as close to removing that "difference" you speak of from any that I've tried.   It is darn near perfect.   You get the benefits of the CT without that "difference" in handling.

That has been my experience so far...

[Jess from VA]

Yes, I forgot about that (sort of hybrid) car tire.

They cost more than most CTs, and I have yet to hear of the kind of miles one can expect from one.

I sure have not heard anything but positive reviews on them in the handling dept.  

[Punisher]

They cost more than most CTs, and I have yet to hear of the kind of miles one can expect from one.

I read of some on the Goldwing board getting in the 40k mile range on them.   Don't know anyone that's had one on a Valkyrie long enough to wear it out.  I've got 7k on mine and it looks just like it did the day I put it on even though I tend to run the curves hard...on women and motorcycles.   

[Jess from VA]

Good to know.  I will keep them in mind, but I am about 30K out on both bikes on current 205 60's.

on women and motorcycles

Braggart............. I like it. 

[98pacecar]

Did a lil lookin at this subject,,       n' found the quote below, outta da thread,,,,( Link, below dat...)  

Is this guy looney,, errr does he have a valid,, point?  ???

Post comes offa page 3,,, bout 1/2 way down....


Now ....... this may shock some of you, as it goes against most of what you've been hearing/reading about from those who have tried a car tire on a 1500, but, I, myself, will be switching back to using my trusted Dunlop E3s, front and rear. I've found that when running Double Darkside, the bike didn't handle as well when ridden aggressively, as it does with the Es front and rear. At times, the handling was downright .... 'sloppy'!

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/5-general-motorcycle-discussion-forum/378140-pictures-austone-taxi-tire-valkyrie-3.html


 

[Otus]

How did I know this was going to be a long thread? 

[BradValk48237]

But a couple of facts about Car Tires that nobody seems to mention......

1. They smooth out the ride.. seams and bumps in the highway are much nicer with it .. MC tire can jolt you out of the seat.. especially on the roads here in Michigan.

2. They just plain look Effin' COOL!

 

Brad

[Challenger]

After reading the article, I fully understand why a CT will not work on a MC rim. So when my CT wears out I will be replacing it with another CT. Everyone should Ride on what they feel comfortable with.   

[2qmedic]

Well folks,,,think I have just figured out the issue of why we have not experienced the "Flaming Death" because of riding a CT.
Our bikes have the wrong bead on the rear rim...they are the Typ 5 J car bead instead of the MC bead...thats why the CT's have stayed on the rim!  
The Mfg has made a mistake in designing the rear rim!
This explaines everything now!  

[Valkorado]

Did a lil lookin at this subject,,       n' found the quote below, outta da thread,,,,( Link, below dat...)  

Is this guy looney,, errr does he have a valid,, point?  ???

Post comes offa page 3,,, bout 1/2 way down....


Now ....... this may shock some of you, as it goes against most of what you've been hearing/reading about from those who have tried a car tire on a 1500, but, I, myself, will be switching back to using my trusted Dunlop E3s, front and rear. I've found that when running Double Darkside, the bike didn't handle as well when ridden aggressively, as it does with the Es front and rear. At times, the handling was downright .... 'sloppy'!

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/5-general-motorcycle-discussion-forum/378140-pictures-austone-taxi-tire-valkyrie-3.html


 

I don't think he's Looney, he was another of the ones that convinced me to slap on an Austone.  I love the Taxi tire with an Avon Cobra on front.  The double darkside is actually referring to running a C/T in back and a rear M/C tire in front, sometimes reversed.   Since steering comes from the front, I'll keep a quality front bike tire there!

[gordonv]

Well folks,,,think I have just figured out the issue of why we have not experienced the "Flaming Death" because of riding a CT.
Our bikes have the wrong bead on the rear tire...they are the Typ 5 J car bead instead of the MC bead...thats why the CT's have stayed on the rim!  
The Mfg has made a mistake in designing the rear rim!
This explaines everything now!  

I didn't read this link (this time), but from your above statement, if this is true, then the opposite should be happening, flaming death on MC tires.

[MP]

So how many peeps actually run, a CT on da back?    ???

Do we know? 

Think,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 30, 40 %,,,,, errrr what? 

Probably the best way to know is to come to Inzane and start walking the rows of Valkyries with a notepad and pencil in hand.

I have done that.  Varies, but a little under 50 %.  Usually between 35 and 45%.

They tend to be on bikes that see more miles.  Hard to believe ALL of those bikes are fiery death traps!  LOL

MP

[2qmedic]

Well folks,,,think I have just figured out the issue of why we have not experienced the "Flaming Death" because of riding a CT.
Our bikes have the wrong bead on the rear tire...they are the Typ 5 J car bead instead of the MC bead...thats why the CT's have stayed on the rim!   
The Mfg has made a mistake in designing the rear rim!
This explaines everything now! 

I didn't read this link (this time), but from your above statement, if this is true, then the opposite should be happening, flaming death on MC tires.

Well.....perhaps not from the bead design on the rim (obvious joke above), but it is kinda true....I have never seen, or know of anyone who knows about a CT failure. I only know of MC tire failures.
Something to think about.....

[PAVALKER]

Well folks,,,think I have just figured out the issue of why we have not experienced the "Flaming Death" because of riding a CT.
Our bikes have the wrong bead on the rear tire...they are the Typ 5 J car bead instead of the MC bead...thats why the CT's have stayed on the rim!   
The Mfg has made a mistake in designing the rear rim!
This explaines everything now! 

I didn't read this link (this time), but from your above statement, if this is true, then the opposite should be happening, flaming death on MC tires.

Well.....perhaps not from the bead design on the rim (obvious joke above), but it is kinda true....I have never seen, or know of anyone who knows about a CT failure. I only know of MC tire failures.
Something to think about.....

Well.... come to think of it, I have not heard of anyone claiming a CT failure or a CT for a cause of an accident, but have heard of MC tire issues.    Anyone have any info or input on this?

[old2soon]

Been to I-12 and I-13. It no longer is a surprise at how many Valkyrie's are on C/T or D/S-what ever floats yer boat. I STILL get comments about running D/S on my Valkyrie-some good some not so good but MOST of the not so good have ZERO real world experience-they heard this and that and assumed they knew!!  Some others have already stated this and I want to reinforce it-it's on my M/C-it's no longer a car tire!!  RIDE SAFE.