What now ?

[Wewaman]

    what have I missed  . 2003 Standard  ,
Rebuilt carbs,  synchronized carbs, de-smoged, rebuilt petcock, installed exhaust gaskets, and have re-tightened twice so far,  new plugs, plus rear end service, and installed a CT and added Ride On. 

I put about 75 miles on today in the rain,  and it does ride great but  there is a miss or pop or something.
I can rev it up but when it gets to around 2500 rpms it pops,  sounds like a miss. Also sounds like it's coming from the right side.   Where do I look next. 

Thanks in advance,
 Tony

[Patrick]

You're having a heck of a time with this monster. Sounds as though there is something like a vacuum leak or maybe a diaphragm problem. Possibly still a low jet or pilot issue.

[Momz]

Replaced the intake O-rings yet?

[Wewaman]

New intake O'rings
I have a new K&N air filter, I might try changing it, there is a K&N already in there and I bought the K&N cleaning kit and used it on the one in the air box but I might just try the new one.  I will just ride it until I get it all figured out.  Could be I missed something with all I have done. 
Might need to find a wrenching party somewhere within a 1000 miles   
At least I can ride her once again, and she has no problem hitting triple digits 
Just need to do some more tinkering.  Might have been easier to diagnose if I would have only done one thing at a time. 
I checked the synch again today and adjusted very little just trying to get it closer but it was already pretty darn close. 
It idles fine but not completely even , it fluctuates a little 900 down to 750/800 back to 900 .

Just a matter of time and tinkering,  it does sound like it could still be an exhaust leak, maybe?  Not sure
Thanks again,
Tony

[R J]

I'd go over the vacuum hoses with a fine tooth comb.

Sounds like a vacuum leak to me.

If it is  not a vacuum leak, then you apparently have an exhaust leak.

[blotar]

I traded for a Valkyrie that needed a clutch and proceeded to give it a lot of TLC. There was a popping that I could not get rid of with inspection of possible vacuum leaks and there was a slow speed 'stumble'. I purchased over $100 worth of carb parts and started pulling carbs when I noticed one of the slides was all the way up! I ran over to that side and pulled the beauty cover and discovered the diaphragm spring completely missing. Since I don't know the difference between a touring spring and an interstate spring, I sent off for one of each and began to reassemble without pulling the carbs. When the springs came in I matched up the correct one and the whole mess was resolved. Who would have imagined that some one would leave a diaphragm spring out entirely?
Blotar

[Wewaman]

Well I didn't have any parts left over from my rebuild, so I think I'm good there.
  That being said I am not opposed to taking it all apart again if that's what it comes down to.
  But first I am going to remove the crash bars and check the De-smog step down brackets , could be that I didn't use enough washers when I put them on...  will also double/triple check all things vacuum.

Here's another question not sure of the relationship here but,
I have a California bike , but there is NO canister under the bike , the reason I'm asking is because the vent hose coming off the rear of the tank has a clamp on it . Did that hook onto the canister? And is it supposed to just hang free ?  I think Patrick answered that in another post but I can't find it.

Oh well heading out to do some more Tinkering

Tony

[John Schmidt]

check the De-smog step down brackets
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Step down brackets?"  I've desmogged nearly a dozen of these beauties, never heard of that. Sounds like you might have bought a kit with a lot of stuff in it. All I ever used to desmog was new caps for the vacuum ports on the intakes, some quick setting JBWeld and the use of my air powered hack saw. Don't even have to pull the tank and airbox if you don't want to. Just wait until the next time you have to, then remove the Pairvalve junk sitting on the engine.

[Patrick]

What the heck is a desmog step down bracket ?  I've never had the need to buy a desmog 'kit' , but, I've never stepped anything down either.
The fuel tank vent line needs to be free and clear. There is ' T ' in that line with one [side] nipple open/ nothing attached [ vacuum break] . There is however a drain line with a clamp. That clamp is to keep the plug from falling out of that line.
The idle speed should not fluctuate. Something is still wrong.

[Thunderbolt]

Don't remember for sure, but maybe in your other thread you mentioned that you changed the plugs so they should be new.  Pull the plug wires one at a time while the engine is running and see if they are all firing and that it makes a difference when you pull it.  Switch plugs from side to side.  Take a piece of regular 8X12 copy paper from your printer and hold it over the exhaust as if to seal it up.  Hold it on the top and let the engine push the paper away from the exhaust tip.  This should help you decide which side of the engine is missing or not firing.  You will notice the difference, one side will be more rhythmic, this will be the side where all three are firing. 
Just some things to try to help narrow it down.  Are you positive that all the boots are on all the way around and not folded under on the back side?

[Wewaman]

Just got back from a 100 mile test ride , this thing runs awesome at high speed but it still feels/sounds a little off.
John , Patrick,
I bought the shiney de-smog kit from Redeye and there are what they call step down brackets.  On top of the heads there are 2 ports (1@the rear & 1@ the front) and the old ones were held in place by the metal tubes going to the pair valve.  But after you take the metal tubes off and you put the plugs in from redeye you need a step down bracket that has a bushing and washers that go into the bracket and it rests on top of the plug and the other end is bolted to (for example the #5 intake bolt.) To hold the plug in place.. OK  Lesson over...

Patrick I know about the tube with the plug in it that comes from the airbox and yes it does have a clamp to hold the plug from falling out, I removed it to drain the Dragon drool.  But I am talking about the hose from the rear of the tank, that one has a small clamp on it.  I left the hose attached to the tank when I removed the tank so its not like I put it on wrong, that's why I was wondering if it went to the canister , that I'm guessing the P.O. must have removed.

Thunderbolt,  Mase,
I asked in a previous post about the air box tubes but nothing was said about it.  I asked if I needed to replace them because two of them had at one time been folded over and had cracks in them but they were cracked where the clamp would cover them so with no replays I just made sure they were totally seated and clamped them back on.  But I will double check that because I removed the air box again after I asked that question to check something (don't remember what)  and reinstalled it without the youthful eyes of my son to help that time.
Yes there are new plugs and it does seem to be coming from the right  1,3,5 side.

That being said I am going to order 18 viton vacuum caps from Redeye and replace every one I can find.  
Will pull the tank and air box and intake runners and do a thorough inspection when the caps get here.  
But until they get here I will be spending time in the wind, OH YEA  

Thanks for all your wisdom,
Tony

[John Schmidt]

OK, now I understand the "step down brackets." I never bothered with that, I just remove those plugs, cut the pipe off and fill the hole with quick setting JBWeld and put them back. I do that on the corners where they're held down, no need for extra brackets. For the other two pipes I cut them off and fill with JBWeld. Remove the tubing in back of the intakes and put the caps on. Desmog done.

Next time you pull the tank for filter service, that's when you pull the airbox to remove the pairvalves.

[Wewaman]

Thanks Mase ,
Will do

Wewa

[Patrick]

OK, now I know what a 'step-down' bracket is. I don't use 'em. I make my own.
The fuel tank vent must be open as mentioned before. Its common to kink it when the fuel tank is replaced.

[Wewaman]

It's me again Ethel... . Latest update

Still waiting for vac plugs from Redeye to arrive.  

Patrick I can't find a "T" for the tank vent hose, so just hanging straight down will be OK?

I have put about 400 miles on the Valk and today I rode home from work with no helmet and it seems that the miss/pop is happening at all speeds and rpms.  
  
I used to hit reserve at about 125 miles , once made it to 132 but today I got to 152 before switching , that's never happened before.  

I also pulled each plug wire off and it died when I pulled #'s 1-2- and stumbled on #'s 4-6  no change on 3-5
Pulled all plugs and they all looked the same , light tan.  

Tony

[Ricky-D]

I also pulled each plug wire off and it died when I pulled #'s 1-2- and stumbled on #'s 4-6  no change on 3-5
Pulled all plugs and they all looked the same , light tan.

This is indication that each cylinder is not pulling it's weight equally.

A good synchronization of the carburetors should cure this problem, and minimize the popping issue.

***

[Daniel Meyer]

Get the "T" for the vent hose...it's basically a vacuum breaker...if overflow fuel is in the line it can get vacuum locked and not drain out and it can starve the other drain (fuel line) for fuel.

And yes, really.

[Wewaman]

Ricky-D,  I have synch'd the carbs about 3 times , last time I tweaked the synch screws just enough to get them all an eincy, weincy , tiny bit just trying to get them all the same as #3 they were all pretty darn close . .  I guess I will check them again once I replace all the vacuum caps and check all other hoses,  thanks.

Thank you for chiming in Daniel     I have a spare "T" that I will put on the end when I get home today,
 Patrick mentioned that earlier, but I didn't understand because he said there is one side,  nipple open
[quote There is ' T ' in that line with one [side] nipple open/ nothing attached [ vacuum break] . [/quote]
So do I just put the bottom of the T in the hose and have both (sides)  nipples free??

Thanks,
Tony

[salty1]

Tony your making progress.    The tee should be about half down the line, maybe 6 inches below the tank and before it exits below the engine. I know you have synced your carbs, but I'm curious how you set your pilots.?
http://partstream.arinet.com/Mobile/ACrA2nDmW-_-JVhDz3cH1azosy1EBELDK71_AVtAlcVeOMd1cIQOd8TC4Pn2laiZ5OJzWR38G7VhceZMv_yR1EX0a107tUNjxlpZmwcE-cQ1.html

[Patrick]

Ricky-D,  I have synch'd the carbs about 3 times , last time I tweaked the synch screws just enough to get them all an eincy, weincy , tiny bit just trying to get them all the same as #3 they were all pretty darn close . .  I guess I will check them again once I replace all the vacuum caps and check all other hoses,  thanks.

Thank you for chiming in Daniel     I have a spare "T" that I will put on the end when I get home today,
 Patrick mentioned that earlier, but I didn't understand because he said there is one side,  nipple open
[quote There is ' T ' in that line with one [side] nipple open/ nothing attached [ vacuum break] .

So do I just put the bottom of the T in the hose and have both (sides)  nipples free??

Thanks,
Tony

[/quote]



Salty answered the ' T ' question. Only one nipple should be open and the ' T ' as he said should be above the end of the line. Some have had trouble because this line is originally too long so cutting it off at or just above the swing arm is fine, the break [ T ] should be several inches above that.

Not knowing what condition the vacuum caps are in means you're 'squirting' in the wind and the previous sync's mean nothing. Why wait for fancy dancy caps, just take some good quality line and cut an inch or so and screw a nice looking cap screw into them and stick them on the intakes. Then they'll outlast the bike.

[Wewaman]

Salty1  I set them all 2 1/4 turns out
Thanks for the clarification on the T 

Patrick I already ordered the caps so I'll just wait on those.  But I did buy some more 5/32 vacuum hose today, because I was thinking about doing just what you said.   

I will synch once I get all the ports RE-plugged and then maybe I'll be done......   
I will just have to wait and see 

But progress is progress no matter how S----------L-----------O----------W     it is. 

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge,
Tony

[Wewaman]

So maybe once I get the tank off and then change the air filter and check the tubes inside the air box then remove the air box and replace all the vacuum caps on the carburetors.   I will put it back together and then remove each intake    runner    ( 1@a time) and quadruple check that the O'rings are still in place and put new vacuum caps on the intake runners.  Then with intake runners out  I will bottom out each pilot screw and back them out 2 1/4 turns ( just to be sure) one more time then I will synchronize the Carburetor's .    Does that  cover everything , I hope so

I am getting quicker with the disassembly/ reassembly process 

Not so intimidating after you do a few times.

Tony

[Patrick]

Practice makes perfect, almost.



I can't remember, most days its a good thing, you have 35 lows ? Then 2.25 is right.

[Wewaman]

Patrick I don't really know if the PO's changed anything in the carbs.   I do know he had Jardine exhaust and he put a 6° trigger wheel on.  I also know that someone had the air box off because 2 of the air box tubes have a crack where they were folded over. And the air box tubes were not in the correct position, I had to turn them to match up with the outside of the air box, and the canister is missing off the bottom of the California bike.  I don't know if that tells you anything or not.
I am the 3rd owner -1st owner put 4600 miles on it -2nd put 30,000 miles and - I have put about 12,000 on it.
And I plan to put a whole lot more on it,  at least until it quits running (that is after it's back to running like its supposed to)

Oh and by the way my tank vent hose hangs down so that I have it in the same bracket that the other hose (dragon drool ) ends in.   So yes very long .

I think that's everything.

Tony

[Daniel Meyer]

The "T" needs to be higher than the bottom of the hose. It's usually about 6" down from the vent nipple on the tank. It needs to be close to that or it won't really do the job.

[Wewaman]

Took tank off and air box out , installed the "T" in the tank vent hose and  put silicone around air box tubes.  Pulled intake runners and re-checked pilot screws, all set to 2 1/4 turns out.  Also used Alcohol to re-install intake runners, worked great.  The new "old" vac caps that I bought from 3 different auto parts stores are not so good, visible cracks in several of them. 
 Still waiting for new vac caps to arrive.  Then I will  put air box and tank back on,
Then Synchronize  the carburetors and ride. 

Tony

[Thunderbolt]

One more item that hasn't been discussed on this thread that I have seen.  On each carb there is a short section of vacuum hose that runs to the air cut valve, it is about an inch or so long.  I usually replace those while I have the carb bank off the bike.  They generally look ok but will have hairline cracks when you get them off and squeeze the ends.  Just another vacuum leak source.

[Wewaman]

Thunderbolt,  I took the hose off of #5 carb it was about 2" and it had 11 printed on it and I squeezd  it and did not see any cracks, also put finger over one end and sucked , no leaks.   It is two tone,  black inside with a grey outside coating.
I only checked that one because it was  the easy one to get to. 
Thanks for that though. 

Just to confess to everyone , you know confession is good for the soul.
When  I put the airbox in the last time I used a little lubricating oil on the inside of the rubber tubes to make it slide on easier.  Well each tube was still wet and slickery, and that could have been a source of the vac leak.  Not positive but maybe. 

Tony

[Thunderbolt]

O.K. on the hoses being good.  Someone must have replaced them on your bike.  Keep on digging.

[Wewaman]

Thunderbolt,   I replaced 5 of the 6 hoses you mentioned.   
  not so easy to get to with carbs installed    but with tank & airbox off it was manageable

also got her back together and did one round of Synch'ing last night, I quit at about 1:30a.m.
will finish this afternoon and I am expecting GREAT things as she already sounded better.  Of course it was raining and it is hard to hear in a metal shed, but none the less the smoking went away considerably and...   I CAN'T WAIT TO GET HOME  and finish her up..

Thanks again to ALL who helped me with this Obsession  
it was all a great learning expeirence for me, And I could NOT have done it without you 
  Tony

[salty1]

Hey Tony keep us posted on the final result. Also, got any pics to share?

[Hoser]

This whole thread reminds me of why I removed all vacuum lines and plugged all the nipples and installed a manual petcock and did a complete desmog a long time ago.  Hoser  ??? 

[Wewaman]

 
DONE    just got back from a short test ride and she is not popping or missing or smoking or anything but Flying as smooth as I remember it.  May be smoother than I remember only went a couple miles it's chilly and very windy here tonight and I have to leave at 4::30 in the morning and drive down to Wildwood for a meeting so I won't get to really ride her till Friday. But I am looking forward to Friday I really just can't wait to feel the awesomeness I've been missing..  got her synchronized and she is idling like she's supposed to just need to put some miles on and make sure its really done.   

Thanks one more time to everyone.
I will try to post a pic when I get back.

Tony

[Bighead]

Glad to hear your ordeal is over Tony :cooldude:and kudos for you hanging in there to get it done.

[Thunderbolt]

Good on the hose replacement.  Hope Friday's ride is satisfactory.