starter switch?

[peter]

Hi All,

Yesterday she would not start up again after a 30 mile ride for lunch. Ran great getting there with no indication of any trouble. Went to start her up and while my turn signals and rear brake light and tag lights lit up as they are supposed to, the headlight did not, and absolutely no juice to the starter, even after flipping the starter switch a few hundred times. Had it towed back to my place and charged the battery - no difference.

I have read about starter switch problems on this forum and think this must be it. Can you guys think of anything else it might be before I jump in there?

Hey Big BF, you comin' to DC anytime soon???
Peter
'98 Tourer

[Bugslayer]

It very well could be the switch. Mine did pretty much the same thing. I took the starter button apart and cleaned the contacts. Never had another problem.

Just for grins, check the battery and ground first.

Found this on Shoptalk.....
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/VSGPages/starterbutton.htm

[Shelly]

my bike did the same thing to me yesterday. took a ride shut the bike off and then it would not start. luckily I carry jumper cables designed for a motorcycle and hooked it up to a car battery and bingo, started right up. drove it home and shut it off ang again it would not start. tried the jumper cables again and it fired right up. so in my case it was the battery.

[peter]

Thanks - I'm going to try jumping it today, but I still don't understand why all the lights except the headlight go on - I would have thought I would have seen a weak headlight given the other lights were on.

[DarkSideR]

Be Careful!  I fried my starter switch on a long ride pushing a phone charger, lights on the highway bar, headlight, etc. There are some mods you can make to ensure you won't fry it again. Check out this past post, it may help...

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,44355.0.html

[Marinakorp]

I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend!   

[John Schmidt]

By all means, do the relay mod in the link posted by Joshcornkid. Clean the switch itself, then do the mod. That will pretty much do away with the possibility of the starter switch going bad again. I'm surprised more people don't take advantage of it, it's a life saver.

[CASABROKER]

If the headlight off its the starter button.  Easy fix just clean the contacts put it back together. 

[Thunderbolt]

Yes probably the starter button maintenance needs to be done as stated above.  If that happens again you can start the bike by turning on the key and stick it in second gear and push it down the hill or across the parking lot with the clutch in, then released the clutch when it gets rolling pretty good.  It should start.  Also if it is just the starter button contacts that is causing the problem you can turn the key on and short the two large wires on the starter solenoid underneath the right side cover to start the bike.  That is what the starter button does although internally via the solenoid.  BE SURE THE BIKE IS IN NEUTRAL BEFORE YOU USE THIS METHOD. !!!!!!

[peter]

Wow, great info. Wish I knew all this yesterday!

A big thanks to everybody, much appreciated.

Peter

[peter]

Well, regrettably, my problems were not resolved by serving the starter switch. Took it apart and it was almost spotless. Cleaned it anyway and slapped it back together.

Symptom: headlight off, battery good, no action from the starter button.

Also checked the starter relay under the right side cover per Rattlebars instruction, but it looked perfect, no charring or evidence of anything wrong. There was what looked like a fuse cover on top of it - could this be the problem? I didn't try removing it because it looked like a major pita, but i will try tomorrow to see what's under there. 

Does this make sense? 

[Thunderbolt]

Peter here is a link to RP Brown's schematics for the Valkyrie.  Without being there with a test light it is hard to diagnose what is going on with your bike.
http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage05.html

Does the neutral light come on?  Did you try to short across the starter solenoid with the key on and the ignition off?  Do you have a test light so that you can find where you lose the battery?  Maybe someone that lives near you will volunteer to come over and help.

[peter]

Thanks Thunderbolt, so much for the easy fix.....

[BobB]

Peter, I'm late chiming in here but I had your problem six years ago while on the road.  It turned out to be the connector on top of the starter solenoid.  It was fried.  Jumping the solenoid contacts with a screwdriver worked to start the bike. I replaced the connector with individual spade connectors which are still working.

[peter]

Thanks, man, I'll check this out - mine is also a Jade/black '98 so this must be it!

[peter]

ok, we have new development. I pulled and cleaned up the starter relay - everything looked fine and the fuse was good.  Didn't do anything other than look everything over and put it back. Tried starting the bike, and now the healight goes on as it should BUT CLICKS OFF when I hit the starter button, coming from the headlight bucket, and, of course, no juice to the starter. 

Battery is good - I recharge it between attempts.

Is there a relay in the headlight bucket that failed??

Haven't checked the starter connections yet 'cause I have to look up where they are..

sorry to drag this out...

[salty1]

You say the battery is good.? Have you load tested it? Considering everything you've done, it is beginning to sound like a battery problem.   

[Thunderbolt]

Peter trying to read between the lines, you say the headlight comes on when you turn the key on and goes out when you press the starter button.  The click that you mentioned, is it every time you press the button?  Is it the starter solenoid underneath the right side cover that is clicking?  If it is then the internal contacts inside the solenoid may be burned and not making contact when the solenoid is operated.  If you have a test light put the clip on the negative battery terminal and use the probe end to check the two large wires on the solenoid for battery.  One of them should have battery and when the starter solenoid operates as you press the starter button the other should then have battery also.  Let us know how this test comes out please. 

[R J]

Take the battery out and take it to a car parts store.

Have them do a load test on that battery.

If it checks out OK, then start chasing the hot cable for crude, mold and etc.

Find nothing, chase the ground wire.   If you have a short battery jumper cable attach it to the grd post and then to the engine block.    Hit the button.   Nothing, then somewhere in the hot cables you got a problem, broken cable or a badly corroded one somewhere.   If it rolls over, then it is in the ground cables.

You asked about a relay.     There will only be one there IF you ADDED it.    Honda did not put a relay in the started system.

Check the Shop Talk for a write up by Rattlebars on adding one. 

It is very helpful also for driving lights and etc.

[peter]

Thanks for the great responses; here's what we got:

1) Battery is putting out 176 amps which should be ok. None-the-less, I tried jumping the bike with my pickup truck battery - no go, same symptoms.

2) The headlight comes on when the ignition is on like it should, and goes out when the starter button is pressed, as it should, but no action regarding the starter, not even a wimper, and I hear what I believe is a relay click in the headlight shell every time. And I'm pretty sure there is a relay in there as I have Cobra light bars and I seem to remember BigBF put one in at some point. I'll check it tomorrow.

3) I am going to conduct the testing you guys suggested and get back to you.

Thanks much for sticking with me. 

[Moonshot_1]

Do the starter button maintenance again. Sometimes I have to do it a couple times as things may not sit right. You may have to gently bend the contacts so they make contact.

When you press the starter button wiggle it around as you press it and see if anything happens. (Push it around with your thumb, not just straight in.)

There have been times I've had to do it multiple times to get the contacts to slide right.

The symptoms you describe are dead on to the starter button. Try the wiggle thing.

[peter]

Good news, found the problem. As noted earlier, I mentioned a click in the headlight shell every time I hit the starter button. I opened the shell and traced the offending click to a relay that was added to cut the Cobra driving light off when the starter button was engaged, just like the headlight.  I fiddled with it while pressing the starter button and presto, she fired up. Repeated the sequence to make sure, so now I just have to replace the relay and I'll be good to go (or just open the headlight and give it a good squeeze).

Thanks all for your help and great info. Learned a lot from this.

Signing off,

Peter

[pancho]

Hey Peter,,, I would be thinking that the problem is probably with the wiring crimps on the connectors for the relay rather than the relay itself...  The starter wiring will show up on one side of the coil of the relay, but will not actually run through it....  check or redo the crimps on the connectors, sounds like one is flaky.

[Thunderbolt]

Good news that you found it.  Thanks for taking the time to reply with the solution.   

[peter]

In the interest of full disclosure, I must confess that what I thought was the solution to my starting problem described above - a loud clicking relay in the headlight bucket - was, in fact, bogus. A new relay did not alter the situation a bit.

Upon opening the starter switch for the 67th time, I observed that the two copper contacts on the white plastic slide were at an angle and pushed in slightly; I raised them a bit, and presto, she fired right up. 

You guys thought this all along....the weirdness with the headlight relay, and the fact that the switch was pristine in appearance led me away from the obvious, into the abyss....

Thank you guys and BigBF for helping me sort this out.

Anyone know the Part number for what I need?

[R J]

You want a part # for the handle bar switch or what?

If it is the handle bar switch, you already fixed it if you bent the contacts up to make contact.

If ya fixed it, no muck with it no more.

[gordonv]

You can't get parts to fix it. You can only buy a complete new one.

[R J]

You can't get parts to fix it. You can only buy a complete new one.

And then ya got to chase wires to find the end connector.   Not good.

 

[peter]

Yea, would be easier just to fix the one I have. I am trying to get the switch to move "nicely" now that I've raised the contacts. Presently, they are raised too much and the switch binds. I'll just keep fiddling with them until I get them at the right height.

Thanks again and sorry it took me a while to figure it out. If this comes up again, i would caution the owner that the switch can look like new and still not function, and direct him to check the contact height.

[R J]

Yea, would be easier just to fix the one I have. I am trying to get the switch to move "nicely" now that I've raised the contacts. Presently, they are raised too much and the switch binds. I'll just keep fiddling with them until I get them at the right height.

Thanks again and sorry it took me a while to figure it out. If this comes up again, i would caution the owner that the switch can look like new and still not function, and direct him to check the contact height.

Yupper, you got it correct.    I only raise my contacts about an 1/32 of an inch when ever I service it.

Happy Motoring.