Cyl. #2 low compression

[valkcan]

Hi gents
This is my first post on here. I purchased my 03 Valk. last season and put 7k miles on it before it went for storage in my unheated shed. Now I took it out today and got it in the garage to prep it for the season. Got the plugs out and everyone was a nice even color with no sign of fouling or oil consumption. I remember that I had a slight miss when the bike was started till it warmed up. Nothing bad and ran fine once heated up. I decided to do a compression test. 1,3,4,5,6 were @150psi but, #2 was @90psi.   I did not test it with oil in the cyl. but I did a leak down test. All cyl. barely move the gage and show almost no leakage. #2 is in the red and shows a very bad leak. I am having a hard time pinpointing the leak because air is rushing out all over, meaning that it makes a lot of noise but I can't feel where it is coming out. I could feel a slight breeze escaping fromthe left exhaust. Should I run it as is in the hopes that when it warms up compression will come back? Should I pour some type of additive to see if that would help? The bike has 72K miles. Appreciate your input.
Don

[bentwrench]

Are you holding the crank at tdc compression when the air is on?

[valkcan]

Are you holding the crank at tdc compression when the air is on?

Yes at tdc.  Otherwise, the other cyl. would have lost air also.
Don

[hubcapsc]

Mine smoked a tiny bit when I got it.

And I did a compression test, and I was low on one cylinder too.

I considered putting oil in the cylinder, people here warned me not
to, or to be careful, it doesn't take much to hydrolock a Valkyrie.

Anyhow... that was 65,000 miles ago. I never did anything about it,
now there's no smoke, and my Valkyrie runs really good. I haven't
done another compression test.

Should I run it as is in the hopes that when it warms up compression will come back?

That's what I did...



-Mike

[valkcan]

Well that is encouraging news 
Don

[NEHI]

    I would check your valve clearances. If #2 exhaust is tight it could be your problem and driving it could and will cause it to burn.

[valkcan]

I would check your valve clearances. If #2 exhaust is tight it could be your problem and driving it could and will cause it to burn.

That is the first thing I did after doing the leak test. I wanted to make sure that was not the problem.
Don

[Patrick]

I would check your valve clearances. If #2 exhaust is tight it could be your problem and driving it could and will cause it to burn.

That is the first thing I did after doing the leak test. I wanted to make sure that was not the problem.
Don

That would have been my suggestion too, so, from your answer I can assume it was OK. So, if adjustment is good then take it out and run it for awhile and try the compression test again.
I had a low cylinder after a compression just for the heck of it. #6 was low and wouldn't come and it seemed to run fine. Honda would not do anything until I pulled that piston and showed them damage due to improper installation.

[Attic Rat]

If you have air coming from the exhaust on a leak down test that tells you that the exhaust valve needs to be adjusted. Chances are that is all you need to do is adjust the valves. Then recheck compression. These engine do not have a history of burning valves

[valkcan]

If you have air coming from the exhaust on a leak down test that tells you that the exhaust valve needs to be adjusted

I checked the valves and all in speck. This exhaust valve is at .009" and a .010" feeler does go in but not the .011" so, I should be ok. I would understand it leaking if it was too tight but not too loose!! As far as the piston being mounted wrong, it does not surprise me. When I changed the timing belts last year (precautionary measure) it was 1 tooth off from factory. I will pour oil in the cyl. and recheck compression to see if it is ring or valve related.
Don

[bentwrench]

You shouldn't hear anything coming from the intake or exhaust ports they should seal completly.I would pull the intake manifold for that cyl. off and listen carefully at the exhaust and intake ports with piece of vacuum hose.With the filler cap off you should hear some air flowing this can be hard to judge.

There have been so few reports of problems like this on the valk,there are no pattern fails like most other machines.If your certain the valves aren't tight and you still hear air in the intake or exh.ports it's time to pull the head for a better look.

[Patrick]

If you have air coming from the exhaust on a leak down test that tells you that the exhaust valve needs to be adjusted

I checked the valves and all in speck. This exhaust valve is at .009" and a .010" feeler does go in but not the .011" so, I should be ok. I would understand it leaking if it was too tight but not too loose!! As far as the piston being mounted wrong, it does not surprise me. When I changed the timing belts last year (precautionary measure) it was 1 tooth off from factory. I will pour oil in the cyl. and recheck compression to see if it is ring or valve related.
Don



I would still recommend running it for a bit and re-trying the test. There could a speck of carbon sitting under a valve face causing the leak. If you squirt some oil in the hole, hit the starter button quickly before installing the sparkler.
You had a belt a tooth off ?  So, you bought this monster new ? Did it happen to be the right side belt ?

[Blackduck]

I am with Patrick, you did this test after sitting for some time. More than likely just a bit of crud on the valve face.
Unless this is the same side the belt was out a tooth then there is a chance the valve has clipped the piston and is slightly off
Run it then recheck the compression when hot.

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

I assume you ran it last year after changing the belts.  You said #2 exhaust valve seemed alittle loose? Just guessing, it sat all winter with #2 on exhaust stroke, now the valve stem is gummy.  I'd pull the plugs and some some marvel in all the cylinders and crank it a few times to distribute and blow out all the oil (it will be messy).  Clean it up and ride it, then check compression again.  If damage is done, it's done, unless a valve is tight.  If one's bent, it's bent (assuming theres no hole in the piston!).
That being said, I'd also keep an eye out for coolant in the cylinder, or oil/exhaust in the coolant.  May be a head gasket.

[valkcan]

Well, I poured a bit of #5 weight into the cyl. and compression came up to 120 psi. I just thought of something; this is the first time I store a bike in the close to 50 years that have owned motorcycles, that I did not remove the plugs an lubricate the cyl. before storage. My bad. Is it possible that the rings are stuck and valves gummed up on that cyl.? I will pour some additive in the tank and run it and see how that turns out. It ran fine last year and all the plugs had a nice tan color when I removed them. I don't want to pull the head at the beginning of the season. No coolant leaks. I will finish dressing and cleaning her up and go for a ride and keep an eye on it. Thank you everyone for your input.
Don

[Rio Wil]

I had a Kawasaki Police 1000 and it seems that I remember one of the indications of needing a valve adjustment was to run a compression check. Cylinders that were off likely needed adjustment. The displacement of each of these cylinders (and the Kawa) is pretty small.....perhaps a loose exhaust valve (in your case of 1 1/2 thou) is enough to affect compression.....I would tweak that adjustment before going any further.

[valkcan]

I would tweak that adjustment before going any further

I closed everything up and will wash and reassemble what is left to do later on today. I did check and triple checked the valves before putting the cover back on. .006" in. .009" ex. I don't think it can get any better.
Don

[Ricky-D]

If the engine was ran with the valve timing "off", there is

a very real possibility of bending a valve.

***

[valkcan]

It was off by one tooth and I suspect it was like that straight from the assembly line!!
Don

[Patrick]

I love it when questions aren't answered.

[longrider]

I can assure you one tooth off will not harm the motor.  I changed belts on a valk a few years back that was one tooth off.  Couldn't believe it would be out from the factory so I checked the belt alignment more than once.  Bike ran fine before and after.   I suggest that you are on the right track by adding a fuel conditioner and running it a few hundred miles before you pull Anything apart

Warren

[valkcan]

Went for a ride yesterday and she is pulling strong. I will be adding the conditioner and go for another ride before checking compression again.

I love it when questions aren't answered

Uh, I must a missed something!! ???

[Rio Wil]

Just trying to decide what the symptoms might be if one cam was indeed off one tooth.  There seems to be about 40 teeth on a cam drive sprocket, that makes about 9 deg per tooth. If the cam was advanced or retarded by one tooth, (9 deg), it would change the induction/exhaust gas timing relative to the piston position.....and only on one bank.

Would this change in intake/exhaust be enough to exhibit any sort of performance issue detectable by the rider?????

[pancho]

While I'm sure it would show up on a dyno,, I wouldn't think it would be enough that a person would know there was anything wrong with his bike if he got it that way. If he rode another one, he might think his was not as strong.

[Ricky-D]

Thinking that a Valkyrie would come with one camshaft "off" by a tooth, from the factory is folly.

The more logical reason would be the owner messed up fooling with it!

***

[Patrick]

And that may well be why my question went unanswered.

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

Patrick I think he just missed it.  I did.  The post looked like a quote with no additional copy, I didn't even read to the end.

I think you were asking if he baught the bike new and if it was the right side.

[Patrick]

Patrick I think he just missed it.  I did.  The post looked like a quote with no additional copy, I didn't even read to the end.

I think you were asking if he baught the bike new and if it was the right side.

I'm not sure why sometimes a response shows up in the quote box.

I guess I'll spread my responses out into separate paragraphs, maybe that'll help.

Still seems to me the questions were straight forward, but, I guess they're not. He is not the only one that ignores questions, so, the problem must be me.

[pancho]

Patrick I think he just missed it.  I did.  The post looked like a quote with no additional copy, I didn't even read to the end.

I think you were asking if he baught the bike new and if it was the right side.

got to make sure you get outside the final

 or the additional text shows up in the original quote,,,,,  sometimes it is below the field of view.



I'm not sure why sometimes a response shows up in the quote box.

I guess I'll spread my responses out into separate paragraphs, maybe that'll help.

Still seems to me the questions were straight forward, but, I guess they're not. He is not the only one that ignores questions, so, the problem must be me.
[/quote]

[valkcan]

I know this is old but and since everyone was so helpful, I wanted to give an update. I rechecked compression today after a few rides. Engine warm, WOT and compression on lowest cyl is 160psi and highest around 165. So, everything is good. One thing I can say is, it has to be done with throttle wide open. I had 90psi on #6 and redid it again, this time not forgetting to open the throttle. There was a 70psi difference between open and closed. Maybe I forgot to open it when I did my original test although the leak test would have caught it.
Patrick:

You had a belt a tooth off ?  So, you bought this monster new ? Did it happen to be the right side belt ?

I had missed it but:

I purchased my 03 Valk. last season and put 7k miles on it before it went for storage in my unheated shed

It was the right side belt. Thank you everyone.
Don

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

Sure glad for you that things seem to be going your way. I was thinking maybe the rings were just dry and maybe stuck alittle too. Welcome to the family and with all familys some people get upset easy.

[John Schmidt]

Thinking that a Valkyrie would come with one camshaft "off" by a tooth, from the factory is folly.

The more logical reason would be the owner messed up fooling with it!

***

We just had a case here in Fla., front had never been off, bike has mileage in the mid 30K, has almost always had a slight miss....just ran rough no matter what. Finally got to the point of popping at idle so a compression test was done. Low/no compression on one cylinder...forget which one just now. Checked the belt alignment, off by two teeth on the side with the weak cylinder. Pulled the head, bent valve. From the factory....it does happen but so seldom as to not create any statistics. Now, new belts, new valve, valves adjusted(were on the money prior to tear down), runs like a scalded dog.

[Patrick]

I know this is old but and since everyone was so helpful, I wanted to give an update. I rechecked compression today after a few rides. Engine warm, WOT and compression on lowest cyl is 160psi and highest around 165. So, everything is good. One thing I can say is, it has to be done with throttle wide open. I had 90psi on #6 and redid it again, this time not forgetting to open the throttle. There was a 70psi difference between open and closed. Maybe I forgot to open it when I did my original test although the leak test would have caught it.
Patrick:

You had a belt a tooth off ?  So, you bought this monster new ? Did it happen to be the right side belt ?

I had missed it but:

I purchased my 03 Valk. last season and put 7k miles on it before it went for storage in my unheated shed

It was the right side belt. Thank you everyone.
Don

As long as the belt was 'off a tooth' on the right side, it may make sense if the bike has an aftermarket trigger.

[N8171S]

I used to buy airplanes for a dealer.  When I found one with poor compression my boss would say run i t hard and run it lean.  Nearly all the compressions were improved by the time I got home.  Of course I had an adjustable mixture on the planes.  To many people think they are helping the engine by babying it.  Lycoming engine company wants the engines rus at 75% or higher .

[Patrick]

I used to buy airplanes for a dealer.  When I found one with poor compression my boss would say run i t hard and run it lean.  Nearly all the compressions were improved by the time I got home.  Of course I had an adjustable mixture on the planes.  To many people think they are helping the engine by babying it.  Lycoming engine company wants the engines rus at 75% or higher .

And now its common to run lean of peak.

[valkcan]

I am trying to post a picture showing how off the timing was. The original owner assured me that he never played with it. Hope this works.



Don

Well, that did not go so well. I will try the link on photobuckett:  http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/pappyam/media/Valkyrie/025_2.jpg.html?sort=2&o=45

[Bone]

Pictures are ok once you figure out how. Hope you don't mind I will post it for you.

[Patrick]

Hmmm, interesting.

[indybobm]

So, would the cam on the 1,3,5 side be retarded by one tooth? If so, it is probably better to be retarded by one tooth rather than advanced by one tooth for interference reasons.

[Ricky-D]

The camera angle prohibits the true analysis

on whether or not it is correctly timed, and

also the timing mark on the crankshaft is not

visible to further bring into question the

timing of the engine.

***