Clutch issues

[Flint]

Hi everyone,

  I purchased a 97 Valk over the winter with a bad clutch and have replaced the clutch, damper , slave cylinder and rebuilt master. The lever has good tension on it when in neutral, and is good going up thru the gears until you roll off the throttle and back on again, then I can pull the lever half way in before it engages. Pull on the lever a couple of times it will go back to normal until you back off the throttle again. If I hold onto the lever lightly and back off I can feel the lever jump. Not sure what the issue is, but I could use some help. Bike has 37,000 on it.

[Michvalk]

Sounds like you still have air in the system. Did you flush out the master and slave and put new fluid in?

[Flint]

Yes I did flush system and cleaned master. Slave was new, I have power bled and hand bled and get no air bubbles.

[Patrick]

From what I understand of your description, it sounds like a clutch installation or assembly problem.

[salty1]

Welcome Flint! I'm sure your going to find an answer here. Sounds like an unusual problem.   

[Flint]

From what I understand of your description, it sounds like a clutch installation or assembly problem.
[/quote

I have asked myself this question and am confident I have put the clutch assembly together right.
I did not take the outer basket off the bike but did inspect it, looked and felt good.

When I back off the throttle it seems like the piston in the master is being sucked in and as soon as I touch the lever it returns back to normal. I don't have to pump it, all I have to do is touch it . Could be that something is wrong with the master.

[pancho]

I don't know what is causing the problem, but I am pretty sure it is under the cover and will take some investigation. When you say you replaced the clutch, did you replace the plates??

[Thunderbolt]

Might not help at all but some others have had good luck tying the clutch lever to the bar overnight.  Let's the trapped air make it's way up to the master cylinder.  Never heard of the exact symptoms that you describe.

[Flint]

I replaced the friction plates, damper and the spring. If you are referring to the metal plates I inspected all of them and stacked them together. Saw no signs of warping or wear, I also made sure they were all in the same direction when I put them back in.


I tied up the lever last night,  will see what happens today.

[Flint]

Finally found the time to pull the clutch back out of the beast and wanted to see if I can get some more advice. After thinking about  It agree  that it had to be internal so after I removed the cover, I found that I could move the inner basket about 1/8 + inside the outer basket.
     I am sure this is the problem with the temporary loss of hydraulic  pressure, when I back off the throttle the inner basket moves and changes the pressure .
     The inner basket is on there right, I think the problem is there is to much free play or end play in the shaft causing this. I can move that shaft an  1/8 when the basket is out. just wondering if anybody that's had there clutch out noticed that amount of end play on the inter part of the shaft.

[trout dude]

When you was bleeding in the clutch did you bleed the banjo nut up top by the lever. I found out from a lot of people on this site to do this and when I changed the clutch out it had a lot of air there. It got me going very well. Might want to try this.
  Dennis

[Ricky-D]

If it is the actual shaft that you can move, I would think you're Ok.

That seems like a lot of lateral end movement but with no problems

from the transmission I think it's probably within specifications.

The other end is splined into the gear and there is most likely an

external snap ring to keep it in place.

***

[Flint]

After studying the service manual the main shaft is the one that is moving. The outer basket sits on the primary driven gear boss and uses needle bearings to spin on the main shaft. The main shaft is on a front and rear bearing, the rear bearing is pressed in to the case and the front bearing sits into a bearing holder that's behind were the oil filter is . The thing that I notice is that the front of the  shaft has a nut and washer staked on it just like the rear does. Has something gone wrong with the nut or washer on the front to cause the endplay in the main shaft. I cant find any specs on the main shaft endplay but I think its to much.

[pancho]

Are the symptoms the same as they were before you got into the clutch the first time??

[Flint]

I bought the bike in the middle of winter and never drove it, I changed the clutch out because the bike was lunging forward and would not go into neutral. After bleeding, master cylinder rebuild, slave cylinder and more bleeding I changed the clutch and it was better but not fixed. I didn't find out about this problem until I drove it, and it could have been the issue the whole time.
  I'm not sorry I did the other stuff but the problem still remains

[trout dude]

Did you pull the clutch lever off and check the round brass bushing and pin. I had a problem like that and the pin had worn through the brass bushing. Changed the bushing and it was fixed. Hope this helps.
  Dennis

[pancho]

Well, I believe that the problem you are describing is going to be located somewhere in the inner/outer basket assembly. Have you removed the outer basket yet to check that all is well with that staked nut fitting correctly??  I would do that, then disassemble the inner again to check my work and make sure everything is correct in there.

[Ricky-D]

If the problem is "clutch disengagement" and you have changed the clutch pack with

little positive result, it is incumbent that the hydraulics be inspected and tested to

ascertain 100% compliance. That would encompass both the master cylinder and the

slave cylinder, along with all the piping and associated hardware.

The transmission shaft would be the last option, however since you did remove the

clutch pack, proper reassembly, is certainly an area that would need more investigation.

***

[Flint]

I know this an old post but the problem with my clutch has been unresolved and now that winter is coming and a trip to Florida for a couple of weeks is on my mind I decided to get this problem fixed.
Also I wanted to post this because of the unusual symptoms I had and the fix for it.

[/img]


 


This is pictures of the end play that I have in the clutch basket, you can move the inner basket in and out with ease and felt like that was to much end play.





This photo  is the front of the transmission , you have to drain the oil and coolant to remove this cover. The bearing in the middle is the main shaft and I expected to see the staked on nut maybe loose, but it looked good and I was disappointed that it was not the problem.


   


After further inspection here is the real culprit, a bad main shaft bearing. These bearings are not pressed in they are held by a bearing holder. The bearing on the left almost fell out and of course the one  I had to get out was no picnic. Ended having to pull it apart so I could get a puller on it, and unfortunately I would have like to see how bad it really was.
 
Got the bike back together today and all is well, I even can put my bike in neutral while its running.
Thanks to everyone that tried to help me along the way.

   Flint

[The emperor has no clothes]

So the one on the right is the main bearing that was bad ? Did you loose some of the balls when you pulled it ? Glad you got it resolved