Problem Solved...Lost my front brakes yesterday....for a 360 mile ride.

[wiggydotcom]

Had a good ride yesterday up to the Lakehouse at Beaver Dam Lake, Wisc. Got less than 20 miles from home and my front brake lever pulled all the way to the handlebar. Made a decision to carry on, even though it might not have been the smartest. I had a job I had to get done up there.

I was there for about 20 minutes and came home. I used a combination of downshifting and rear brake.

I know someone will ask about how I lost brakes. I'm still not sure but it is related to chrome caliper covers I just put on. I didn't pinch any lines that I know of but it's the last thing I installed before the loss of brakes. There were no visible leaks anywhere, including at the calipers. My reservoir remained all the way up over the window with fluid(which was changed last year).



When I got home, I removed the chrome caliper covers and my front brakes pumped up with two squeezes of the lever. My brakes now engage fully with about an inch of pull-just like before.

The covers have longer bolts and spacers that mount up to the original 2 caliper holes. I'm not sure if somehow my calipers got in a bind or what. Even that wouldn't explain why my lever had virtually no resistance all the way in to the handlebar.

Anybody run in to the same problem or have any thoughts? I'd welcome any ideas.

[pancho]

All I know, is that I would not have kept going, and certainly would not have come back home until I fixed it!!  Do you think you installed the covers wrong?? maybe washers misplaced or wrong bolts used??

[saddlesore]

I'm sorry to hear you had a problem.  When I got the covers I ground the space that the hose goes thru because I was worried that might cause a problem.   
I also got some clear tubing and slit it then put that over the end on the cover just for peace of mind.
I'll be watching to find out the problem myself.  I'd hate to think I sent something that caused a potential accident.

[Bighead]

I have had the same covers on for 15+ years and no problems rubbing lines or anything else I don't think that they are what caused this. There is no way that removing two bolts and replacing said two bolts with spacers and longer ones had anything to do with a brake lever having no pressure. But that is just my opinion. But seems impossible that two bolts that have ZERO to do with the brakes themselves caused this.

[wiggydotcom]

I'm sorry to hear you had a problem.  When I got the covers I ground the space that the hose goes thru because I was worried that might cause a problem.   
I also got some clear tubing and slit it then put that over the end on the cover just for peace of mind.
I'll be watching to find out the problem myself.  I'd hate to think I sent something that caused a potential accident.

Steve, I'm not blaming you in any way, shape or form. I'm going to experiment with them in the next week or so...when I get some spare time. I really can't see any way they could have caused that condition by the way they bolted up. The spacers are the ones that came with it, right?

I'll let you know what I find, if anything. Any potential accident would have been my fault...period!

[wiggydotcom]

I have had the same covers on for 15+ years and no problems rubbing lines or anything else I don't think that they are what caused this. There is no way that removing two bolts and replacing said two bolts with spacers and longer ones had anything to do with a brake lever having no pressure. But that is just my opinion. But seems impossible that two bolts that have ZERO to do with the brakes themselves caused this.

Bighead, thanks for chiming in. I agree with you 100%.  I do have the small chrome covers on my calipers that I left in place when I put the bigger covers on. Maybe this created a bind somehow. You're correct in the fact that I just removed the existing bolts, installed the longer ones through the covers..then the spacers...into the existing holes. What I do know is that I had brakes before the install, lost them...and then had them restored after removing them...without doing a thing besides removing them. I tried the brakes at least 10 times during the trip and had no stopping power with the front lever.

I'm going to remove the smaller covers and retry the caliper covers and test them out in my garage/driveway.  I'll post the results after I try again.

[Jess from VA]

One of the scariest things I ever did was ride an extended fork Sportster with no front brakes.  

Hey want to ride my bike?  Sure.   (20-something)

I was way out in the sticks and took it easy, except for the blind hairpin turn.  I locked the rear wheel and the bike kept going, fortunately into and way across someone's wet yard, wobbling all over the place and barely not dumping it (with boots for outriggers).  The homeowner thought I must be a Hells Angel, and came out with a 12 gauge and a very pissed off attitude, and that was pretty scary too.  I apologized a lot, but he just wanted me gone.  I rode (straight) home at 20mph.

That bike only weighed half of the valk.  I can go all day with only front brakes, but I cannot go very far in my traffic with no front brakes..... just to the scene of the accident.  

Don't do that again, if possible.

[wiggydotcom]

One of the scariest things I ever did was ride an extended fork Sportster with no front brakes. 

Hey want to ride my bike.  Sure.  (20-something)

I was way out in the sticks and took it easy, except for the blind hairpin turn.  I locked the rear wheel and the bike kept going, fortunately into and way across someone's wet yard, wobbling all over the place and barely not dumping it (with boots for outriggers).  The homeowner thought I must be a Hells Angel, and came out with a 12 gauge and a very pissed off attitude, and that was pretty scary too.  I apologized a lot, but he just wanted me gone.  I rode (straight) home at 20mph.

That bike only weighed half of the valk.  I can go all day with only front brakes, but I cannot go very far in my traffic with no front brakes..... just to the scene of the accident.   

Don't do that again, if possible.

Duly noted, Jess. If I was doing a lot of stop and go, I wouldn't have done it. I was exclusively on Interstates and kept my spacing so there would be no surprises.  I only had 3 stops each way in the 360 miles.

[Bighead]

Wiggy I guess they could have been in a bind with the extra piece on there but that would seem to me that they would be dragging the whole time

[bentwrench]

Did it feel like there was any drag?it may have boiled the fliud.If the covers were binding you still should nave been able to pump up some feel.

[wiggydotcom]

Did it feel like there was any drag?it may have boiled the fliud.If the covers were binding you still should nave been able to pump up some feel.

Excellent thought, but no, there didn't seem to be any rubbing. I would have expected if there was drag, I'd get the smoking semi brakes smell. My pads aren't any worse for wear.  I also agree  with you about being able to pump up and create pressure.

We have a cold rainy snap coming through Illinois now, but in a couple days, I'll see what happens with the other chrome covers removed.

Thanks for your inputs, everyone!
 

[Patrick]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, I don't know about these covers. But, evidently there are some longer bolts involved somewhere. Could the long bolts being allowing full extension of the pistons ? It sounds like something similar to that is happening the way you state the brake lever operates now. But, again, I don't know anything about those covers.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about,

I think he has the same as on my bikes ... Right Russ ?

[F6MoRider]

I always try to use as little or no front brake as possible, saving it for unexpected hard stops.  I always downshift and use the rear brake before I apply the front brake. 

Not having it would worry me because of the weight and any need for fast stop but being careful until you get where you can fix it is what we do when stuff breaks.  I'd had clutch and throttle cables break on other machines and had to make do until I got home.

Good on you for being able to do it! 

[Bighead]

I always try to use as little or no front brake as possible, saving it for unexpected hard stops.  I always downshift and use the rear brake before I apply the front brake. 

????? Most of your stopping power is in the front brakes. ie two brakes in front versus one in the rear.
Try using about 75 % front and 25% rear and I think you will find stopping much easier and a whole lot less likely of sliding a tire. Just sayin.

[F6MoRider]

I always try to use as little or no front brake as possible, saving it for unexpected hard stops.  I always downshift and use the rear brake before I apply the front brake. 

????? Most of your stopping power is in the front brakes. ie two brakes in front versus one in the rear.
Try using about 75 % front and 25% rear and I think you will find stopping much easier and a whole lot less likely of sliding a tire. Just sayin.

Been riding for more than 40 years, been through the rider courses, etc...  I know about stopping power distributions but I like to use the rear brake and manage the machine to a smooth stop with as little front brake as possible.  It's like a self test.  I guess it started when it saw folks sliding down in a corner when they unexpectedly found sand or gravel or at stop signs and crossing traffic where gravel gathers.

Neither are good if applied in a curve and in sand or gravel but I've been able to release the rear brake before the rear tire engages the sand whereas I would not have been able to get off the front brake fast enough had I been using it.  I tend to drive fast.

It doesn't mean I don't use the front brake...in fact I love it, excellent stopping power. I just like to try  and use the back brake as mucm as possible as the front tire needs to be free to steer. 

[donaldcc]

I know about stopping power distributions but I like to use the rear brake and manage the machine to a smooth stop with as little front brake as possible. . . . .

I always try to use as little or no front brake as possible, saving it for unexpected hard stops.  I always downshift and use the rear brake before I apply the front brake. . . . .

It doesn't mean I don't use the front brake...in fact I love it, excellent stopping power. I just like to try  and use the back brake as mucm as possible as the front tire needs to be free to steer.

  I would say that despite your 40 year experience that you are NOT using your brakes properly.  my thoughts are front brake almost all the time in straight line with a touch of rear.  

  use of lean and brake in turns at speed is a different matter.  brake, lean and road conditions all important.

  I think that using "back brake as mucm (much) as possible as the front tire needs to be free to steer" is not proper riding technique and is a recipe for disaster.  JMHO

  just not proper use of brakes.  

[Bighead]

I always try to use as little or no front brake as possible, saving it for unexpected hard stops.  I always downshift and use the rear brake before I apply the front brake. 

????? Most of your stopping power is in the front brakes. ie two brakes in front versus one in the rear.
Try using about 75 % front and 25% rear and I think you will find stopping much easier and a whole lot less likely of sliding a tire. Just sayin.

Been riding for more than 40 years, been through the rider courses, etc...  I know about stopping power distributions but I like to use the rear brake and manage the machine to a smooth stop with as little front brake as possible.  It's like a self test.  I guess it started when it saw folks sliding down in a corner when they unexpectedly found sand or gravel or at stop signs and crossing traffic where gravel gathers.

Neither are good if applied in a curve and in sand or gravel but I've been able to release the rear brake before the rear tire engages the sand whereas I would not have been able to get off the front brake fast enough had I been using it.  I tend to drive fast.

It doesn't mean I don't use the front brake...in fact I love it, excellent stopping power. I just like to try  and use the back brake as mucm as possible as the front tire needs to be free to steer. 

Whatever I just need to be way out ahead or waaaaaay behind you

[F6MoRider]

Throttle management and proper use of shifting techniques are equally important in controlling forward momentum a motorcycle.  Some folks really don't know how to truly control the motorcycles they claim they know how to operate.

It works for me, it works just fine but it requires that you know how.  If you don't know how to control it with either brake, it's likely impossible for you to understand.

[Gryphon Rider]

In an emergency people either keep a level head and act appropriately, default to what they've practised, panic and do the first thing that their instincts tell them to right or wrong, or freeze and do nothing.  I've only been in one emergency braking situation (thinking about something else and ran a red light), and automatically did what I've practised: quickly progressive front brake aided by rear brake.  It worked.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I hardly ever use the BACK brake. Probably only use it 10%.

[pancho]

I use ALL MY BRAKES, ALL THE TIME over fifteen MPH, and I could use a couple more.....

[Bighead]

I hardly ever use the BACK brake. Probably only use it 10%.

Exactly!

[wiggydotcom]

Problem seems to be solved.. Thanks to all that responded! Joe, you were correct with the pic. They are ShowChrome Caliper covers. This is a pic of what I had on the bike and I put the showChrome covers on without pulling off the smaller chrome covers.



I just went out into the garage and yanked the above covers off and reinstalled the ShowChrome covers-which look like this.


Now my brakes work fine. I WISH I could say somehow I screwed up and put the covers on upside down or something stupid because I have no problem admitting to a brain fart. But I'm thinking somehow the other chrome covers messed up the distance the spacers took up. That wouldn't explain the seeming loss of hydraulics when pulling the lever to the bar...but it is what it is.
I'd like to thank Saddlesore for selling me this hard to find "set". I LOVE them and apologize for throwing a scare into you. You're a class act, Steve.

To everyone else, many thanks for chiming in...even if it was to scold me for riding without front brakes. I deserved it. For the record, I use front brakes(when they're working) for at least 70% of my stopping power.

[HayHauler]

Glad you got it figured out Wiggy!  Those are some sharp covers you have there... 

Hay 
Jimmyt

[wiggydotcom]

Glad you got it figured out Wiggy!  Those are some sharp covers you have there... 

Hay 
Jimmyt

Thanks, Jimmy..as you might know, the left one is really easy to find brand new. The right one is much, much harder to come across. Why there weren't an equal number of sets made, I can't tell ya.

[Michvalk]

Glad you got it figured out Wiggy!  Those are some sharp covers you have there... 

Hay 
Jimmyt

Thanks, Jimmy..as you might know, the left one is really easy to find brand new. The right one is much, much harder to come across. Why there weren't an equal number of sets made, I can't tell ya.

They made more of the one side because there are bikes that use the same cover that only have one brake on the front, and they still make the bike

[wiggydotcom]

Glad you got it figured out Wiggy!  Those are some sharp covers you have there... 

Hay 
Jimmyt

Thanks, Jimmy..as you might know, the left one is really easy to find brand new. The right one is much, much harder to come across. Why there weren't an equal number of sets made, I can't tell ya.

They made more of the one side because there are bikes that use the same cover that only have one brake on the front, and they still make the bike

That would explain it...Thanks, Michvalk!

[saddlesore]

So glad you have your brakes back!  I can't get it right in my head how it failed but the only real test would be putting the old  covers on under the new covers.
Off topic but are those the original valve stems?  Don't want any other problems.

[wiggydotcom]

So glad you have your brakes back!  I can't get it right in my head how it failed but the only real test would be putting the old  covers on under the new covers.
Off topic but are those the original valve stems?  Don't want any other problems.

Steve,
I agree I could try to recreate what caused it but I'm happy that it's now ok and not wanting to beat a dead horse.  I appreciate your concern about the valve stem. Mine are both metal replacements.
It just doesn't show it with the cap and plastic support blocking the view of the stem..

Here's a different angle.

[Bighead]

Glad to see you got it worked out Wiggy

[wiggydotcom]

Glad to see you got it worked out Wiggy

Thanks, Bighead....appreciate your feedback and support!

[Ricky-D]

Installing the larger covers on top of the smaller covers that are on the caliper

pushed the floating calipers to the fullest extent of their travel range, also pushing the

pistons in to the caliper completely to bottoming position.

Then, when depressing the brake lever, all that happened was that the caliper

moved, trying to access the rotor. Braking failed because the movement of the caliper

consumed the full action of fluid movement provided by the brake lever.

Releasing the brake lever simply allowed the spring action of the larger (new) cover

to again push the caliper back to it's extended position.

Simply put: All the lever was doing, was moving the caliper back and forth on it's pins.

***

[wiggydotcom]

Installing the larger covers on top of the smaller covers that are on the caliper

pushed the floating calipers to the fullest extent of their travel range, also pushing the

pistons in to the caliper completely to bottoming position.

Then, when depressing the brake lever, all that happened was that the caliper

moved, trying to access the rotor. Braking failed because the movement of the caliper

consumed the full action of fluid movement provided by the brake lever.

Releasing the brake lever simply allowed the spring action of the larger (new) cover

to again push the caliper back to it's extended position.

Simply put: All the lever was doing, was moving the caliper back and forth on it's pins.

***

That sounds like the best diagnosis yet, Ricky.  I'll buy that.
Thanks for chiming in!