Beating that dead horse again - Spline Lube - I'm still confused

[BF]

I'm sorry for beating this dead horse again, really, I am, but I'm trying to narrow down what exactly to use. 

Have searched and searched and read and read only to come up with a couple dozen or more answers on what to lube all of the splines with.  There are differnt splines.....the drive splines and then....all of the other splines.   

One thread stands out for me though.  This one....

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,23305.0.html

In it, it graphically shows where to lube what.  I'm gratefull to Sodbuster for his post as it clears some things up......

"So for the record is what's shown below correct ??
Green = Grease  (example: Bel-Ray WP Grease, Green Grease, Guard Dog 525, Valvoline Moly blend)
Red = Paste (example: Guard Dog 570, Bel-Ray Assy Lube)"





HOWEVER, as clear as that is, I'm still confused.   

In that same thread, some folks say that they use Bel Ray waterproof for EVERYTHING. 

Here's my confusion.....Bel Ray waterproof....what? 

Are you guys using the Bel Ray waterproof green grease for EVERYTHING including the drive splines....or are when you say you're using the Bel Ray waterproof grease, you're talking Bel Ray Extreme Pressure waterproof grease.....and are you using it just on the drive splines....or for everything?

And for even more confusion, some are saying to use Bel Ray assembly lube.....but are you guys using it for everything or just for the drive splines. 

I'm probably way over thinking this, but I wanna know EXACTLY what goes where and I'm trying to get a definitive answer on what to use....and where. 

[hubcapsc]

Seems like you have it right WRT the manual. Many successful people here don't follow
the manual.

Assuming all the grease in the universe weighs the same, I used some scales to
determine the volume of grease they're talking about for the pinion cup in the
manual: about four quarters worth...



I'll be looking in my pinion cup, perhaps this weekend, to see how I fared this
time around...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

Bruce...I have done many many many rear wheels.  One of my guys leaves his buttoned up for two back tires even though I tell him 10K or so........it scares me, but the last time we opened it after close to 40K it looked baby fresh.

PM me when you get ready next time and Ill show you how I have been doing it

[BF]

Bruce...I have done many many many rear wheels.  One of my guys leaves his buttoned up for two back tires even though I tell him 10K or so........it scares me, but the last time we opened it after close to 40K it looked baby fresh.

PM me when you get ready next time and Ill show you how I have been doing it

Might be awhile Jeff.  I'm facing some health issues at the moment, but in the mean time I'm gathering parts and pieces (have everyting but the lubes) and was going to buy the right lubes....just as soon as I know what it is.   

[Cliff]

Bruce...I have done many many many rear wheels.  One of my guys leaves his buttoned up for two back tires even though I tell him 10K or so........it scares me, but the last time we opened it after close to 40K it looked baby fresh.

PM me when you get ready next time and Ill show you how I have been doing it

Might be awhile Jeff.  I'm facing some health issues at the moment, but in the mean time I'm gathering parts and pieces (have everyting but the lubes) and was going to buy the right lubes....just as soon as I know what it is.   

Hoping your health issues work out for the good!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Bruce...I have done many many many rear wheels.  One of my guys leaves his buttoned up for two back tires even though I tell him 10K or so........it scares me, but the last time we opened it after close to 40K it looked baby fresh.

PM me when you get ready next time and Ill show you how I have been doing it

Might be awhile Jeff.  I'm facing some health issues at the moment, but in the mean time I'm gathering parts and pieces (have everyting but the lubes) and was going to buy the right lubes....just as soon as I know what it is.   

Hoping your health issues work out for the good!

+1

[pancho]

Hey BF,,  get well.

 I use the Honda Moly paste where called for, and mix some with my grease where the grease is called for...??

[Chrisj CMA]

Hey BF,,  get well.

 I use the Honda Moly paste where called for, and mix some with my grease where the grease is called for...??

That Honda stuff isint really paste (read the fine print on the tube)  Its ok until it gets wet....Major storm...time to redo!

[hubcapsc]

That Honda stuff isint really paste

What kind is really "paste"?

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

That Honda stuff isint really paste

What kind is really "paste"?

-Mike

look on the tube, it says "use where Honda GREASE is called for"  

At the end of the day it really doesnt matter if its grease or paste, what matters is that it stays put.  That Honda 60 stuff has the worst staying power of all the products I have tried.

Belray assembly lube is not called "paste" but its way more a paste than the Honda 60 stuff.  I use either Belray assembly lube or Guard dog 570 paste with the Lucas grease.  The Belray waterproof grease or the Lucas HD grease are both very fine products that stay put even if you ride through heavy rain.

Im just going from personal experience.  I do half a dozen Valkyrie rear wheel jobs for fellow riders and they are happy with the results.  Thats what matters, even the guy that tried going 2 tires (near 40K miles) and all was well.

I try to share knowledge learned, there is a slide show showing how I do it.  I just felt sorry for the ones who kept posting rusty splines, like mine looked when I tried using that Honda stuff.  Bottom line, you do it the way that makes you happy

[pancho]

I had noticed that on the tube,, I use it because that is what I have. I also take my drive off every three of four thousand just to look at things. When I run out of the Honda 60, I may change to the Guard Dog 570 you use Chris,, it says it is 73% Molybdenum disulfide,, I think that mixed with a little grease would do just fine....

[98valk]

I use TS-70 moly paste and grease as directed by the service manual.
zero wear. anything without moly requires re-do every 10k. research what moly is and what it does.

these guys are goldwing experts they use grease and paste with the correct % of moly every 40k miles as posted in rider magazine yrs ago.
one can always contact them to verify
http://www.jbjcycles.com/p/services.html

or

An alternative to moly is the new poly-flourinated lubricants made by DuPont called Krytox Teflon Bearing Grease. These chemicals are simply magic. They have almost no known solvents, are chemically inert, and don't burn at any temperature, even in a pure oxygen atmosphere. This is pretty clearly the only grease to use. See this article. Nascar mechanics have found that Krytox grease can reduce the temperature of spline joints on drive shafts by 150°. Also, this stuff lasts forever. It is, unfortunately, quite expensive.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Shaft.html#Splines

[BF]

I had noticed that on the tube,, I use it because that is what I have. I also take my drive off every three of four thousand just to look at things. When I run out of the Honda 60, I may change to the Guard Dog 570 you use Chris,, it says it is 73% Molybdenum disulfide,, I think that mixed with a little grease would do just fine....

Not exactly.  After talking with Jeff, he told me.....

"I use the Lucas Heavy Duty grease on EVERYTHING....additionally I put a small amount of the Belray assembly lube (paste) on the drive splines before slathering the female side with the grease"

This (from his slide show in Shoptalk)....

[98valk]

I had noticed that on the tube,, I use it because that is what I have. I also take my drive off every three of four thousand just to look at things. When I run out of the Honda 60, I may change to the Guard Dog 570 you use Chris,, it says it is 73% Molybdenum disulfide,, I think that mixed with a little grease would do just fine....

why would u dilute the paste with grease? paste has more solids and less oil, grease has less solids and more oil.
service manual calls for paste on splines and grease on u-joint and drive shaft splines.
I believe the guard dog is made by TS-moly. their paste is suitable for under seawater applications.

[pancho]

Yeah,, I like to get the best of both worlds,, the moly for the anti wear properties, and the grease for the lubricating properties because the guard dog 570 is 73% moly,, a bit high for me.

[98valk]

Yeah,, I like to get the best of both worlds,, the moly for the anti wear properties, and the grease for the lubricating properties because the guard dog 570 is 73% moly,, a bit high for me.

Honda specifies a spline grease which is 60% molybdenum disulfide ("moly"). Moly is a dry lubricant which bonds to the metal surfaces, offering lubrication properties even when the parts have squeezed everything liquid out. A lot of greases now say "Moly" on the container, but you must be careful about this. Ford and Caterpillar specify moly greases for particular applications, but the requirement is for 3% moly, not even close to the 60% requirement of Honda. It's not enough to buy a moly grease, what you really want is basically dry moly in a grease-like carrier which makes it easier to apply.

[pancho]

Well put CA..   I wonder if any of this has settled BF's concerns.............

[Chrisj CMA]

Yeah,, I like to get the best of both worlds,, the moly for the anti wear properties, and the grease for the lubricating properties because the guard dog 570 is 73% moly,, a bit high for me.

Honda specifies a spline grease which is 60% molybdenum disulfide ("moly"). Moly is a dry lubricant which bonds to the metal surfaces, offering lubrication properties even when the parts have squeezed everything liquid out. A lot of greases now say "Moly" on the container, but you must be careful about this. Ford and Caterpillar specify moly greases for particular applications, but the requirement is for 3% moly, not even close to the 60% requirement of Honda. It's not enough to buy a moly grease, what you really want is basically dry moly in a grease-like carrier which makes it easier to apply.

Like I said....whatever makes you happy.  I know what works.  In the pictures on my slide show that is guard dog 570 on the male splines, not very much, and then Lucas HD grease packed in the female side.  This has proven over a combined mileage of over 200K miles to be a winning combination. 

I have used JUST Guard Dog, and it stays really good, but it dries out.  I know the lubricating properties are supposed to remain, but Im not sure about that. 

One of my guys I do his wheel uses ONLY Belray waterproof.  No moly at all and his looks perfect too.  My contention is it doesnt really matter what kind of grease you use as long as it stays in there and doesnt dry up

[pancho]

I'd say you have it figured Chrisj with a track record to prove it,,,  BF would be safe in following your recommendations.

[BF]

I'd say you have it figured Chrisj with a track record to prove it,,,  BF would be safe in following your recommendations.

Whenever I finally get around to pulling the rear, I'm gonna go with Jeff's recommendation.  I see no reason not too.   

However, just for the info, I'd still like to hear from all of the Bel-Ray users to see what they're using and where. 

[salty1]

Bruce, I've been using Bel Ray assembly lube for everything at 10 to 15 K intervals, so far so good.         Hope your feeling better soon! Jeff your slide show is very helpful, thanks for the effort.