UPDATE - Opinions about degree of pinion cup / drive shaft joint wear?

[Gryphon Rider]

I've pulled apart my driveline to inspect before the looonnnggg trip to Inzane and back, and this is what my pinion cup and drive shaft look like:




Any knowledgable opinions about the projected life of this joint? It currently has 104,000 km on it.  My thought is to lube it per the service manual, call it good, and inspect it again when I replace the back tire in 20,000 km or so.

[hubcapsc]

Any knowledgable opinions

I think it will be good to go, properly lubed and maintained, for numerous more
tires.

-Mike 

[salty1]

IMO there is definitely some wear, but doesn't appear to be a case of imminent failure.    I probably would be changing out both down the road. How many miles are on the bike?

[Gryphon Rider]

IMO there is definitely some wear, but doesn't appear to be a case of imminent failure.    I probably would be changing out both down the road. How many miles are on the bike?

Bike and all the drivetrain have 104,000 km (~65,000 miles).

[Bighead]

Put it back together and go to inzane :roll:when you get home you can make repairs if you want.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have no knowledgeable opinion on how much longer it will last. But I do know that if I was riding from Calgary to N.C. and back I would be thinking about it the whole time and wouldn't be able to relax and have a good time. For me I would be best off replacing pinion cup and driveshaft.

[Lyle Laun]

Kevin:
I've got a spare if you need it.

[Gryphon Rider]

I have no knowledgeable opinion on how much longer it will last. But I do know that if I was riding from Calgary to N.C. and back I would be thinking about it the whole time and wouldn't be able to relax and have a good time. For me I would be best off replacing pinion cup and driveshaft.

My personality is a little different than yours in that respect. I've already formed an opinion about this that I am confident in, but because I don't really know if the rate of wear increases as it wears, I want those who've already been there to either affirm or caution me. I'm not a worrier.

[Gryphon Rider]

Kevin:
I've got a spare if you need it.

Drive shaft, pinion cup, or both? Thank you for offering, and I'll keep you in mind if I find myself in a bind, but I think I'm good for now. In the same vein, I have a spare starter in my garage in case you're ever in desperate need of one.

[Lyle Laun]

Differential, pinion, driveshaft & u-joint. On my parts bike. The wheel splines look very good, assume the pinion and cup are also good.

[Wewaman]

www.partzilla.com 
not to expensive , thats where I got mine from,  all packaging said Honda on it.

Wewaman

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have no knowledgeable opinion on how much longer it will last. But I do know that if I was riding from Calgary to N.C. and back I would be thinking about it the whole time and wouldn't be able to relax and have a good time. For me I would be best off replacing pinion cup and driveshaft.

My personality is a little different than yours in that respect. I've already formed an opinion about this that I am confident in, but because I don't really know if the rate of wear increases as it wears, I want those who've already been there to either affirm or caution me. I'm not a worrier.

You are probably right and it will be fine

[salty1]

Kevin:
I've got a spare if you need it.

Drive shaft, pinion cup, or both? Thank you for offering, and I'll keep you in mind if I find myself in a bind, but I think I'm good for now. In the same vein, I have a spare starter in my garage in case you're ever in desperate need of one.

When you change them out, I would do both.  FWIW

[Daniel Meyer]

The pinion joint goes fast once there's visible wear. Remember it's not a spline...it's for alignment and it does have some motion to it.

I'd change it in the next 5000 miles or so (I'd actually change it now if I had one).

[BradValk48237]

I am a kinda paranoid, Belt and Suspenders kinda guy.......

I have a back up u-joint, shaft and pinion cup that now live in my left saddle bag.... AM going to get a spare alt and put it in there too one of these days.....

Its always looked good when I pulled the rear, but I have read many times on here how they go out when you least expect it.......

That would be your 2nd best option if you don't change it out now..... who knows, you might get another 50,000 out of it....... or 50...LOL

Brad

[Ricky-D]

I have no knowledgeable opinion on how much longer it will last. But I do know that if I was riding from Calgary to N.C. and back I would be thinking about it the whole time and wouldn't be able to relax and have a good time. For me I would be best off replacing pinion cup and driveshaft.

My personality is a little different than yours in that respect. I've already formed an opinion about this that I am confident in, but because I don't really know if the rate of wear increases as it wears, I want those who've already been there to either affirm or caution me. I'm not a worrier.

Well, of course, the parts will wear, and since you are putting them back in, in a new and different relationship from whence you disassembled them, they will have a new wearing in to wed together for a good matching up. This cannot be helped.

On a positive note however, there is quite a lot of life left in the two pieces and reassembly with a good lubricant will surely give you many more miles of worry free riding.

I have been in the same predicament and proceeded with my own advise, and took a long trip to the ROT rally in Texas a couple of years ago. My splines were in the same condition or even a little more worn than yours appear to be. I used the same grease I use for everything - Lubrication Engineers Almagard 3752, rode two up and heavily loaded with camping gear. It was over 4k miles in the hot summer heat.

The point I am making is that the following year, when I again took it apart, I found additional wear, but not so severe that I could not have put many more additional miles on the assembly.

So you should have no problems with what you have now, by reassembling the two and doing what you want.

Just remember to have spares ready for the next go-round.

Many riders do not realize that each time you disassemble and reassemble splined connections there is again a new wearing-in process.

So the smart rider analyzes what they presently have, clean and lubricate with a confident product, reassemble and, then, leave it alone. There is not much sense in accelerating the wear factor by continuing to take apart and putting back together.

***

[Chrisj CMA]

The question and the concern is not really on the wear shown in that picture.  Those parts are not unusable now.  The concern is that with that wear there is more movement between the parts so each time the teeth "slap" together there will be wear at an increased rate.  So if you consider this 50% worn (which Id say is accurate) It will be toast in WAY less than the miles it took to get to this point.

Make sense?

[Gryphon Rider]

What Chrisj and Ricky say makes sense to me. I'm not going to worry about it this trip, but when I check it again, I'll mark it before disassembly so I can keep matched teeth together at reassembly if I decide to keep going with those parts.

[Wewaman]

What Chrisj and Ricky say makes sense to me. I'm not going to worry about it this trip, but when I check it again, I'll mark it before disassembly so I can keep matched teeth together at reassembly if I decide to keep going with those parts.

+1 Gryphon Rider  ,  I just replaced pinion cup and propeller shaft on my 03 STD.
And at 10,000 miles I will do the rear service and THANKS for the Superb idea of marking them so I can put them back where they were.   
I have a yellow paint pen that I will use to Mark them for reassembly, it should be there from here on out.

That ROCKS 
  Wewaman

[Skinhead]

Put it together and ride it, I'd order parts and have them on hand, but I would probably go 2 more MC/ 1more CT on those.  (unless I started noticing excessive lash in the drivetrain)

[Ken Tarver]

I would change both on my next 10,000 mile inspection.
Gryphon, have you checked the wheel dampers? Slop there i think would transfer into the other drive parts, or vise versa.
What did the drive/wheel splines look like?

I agree here with the other guys, get the parts on hand for the next time. I hate waiting on parts, seems my local dealer has to order most every thing I need. I guess that is the motorcycle market these days.

Have a safe ride to Inzane, maybe I'll get to meet you there, I'm amazed you are coming from Alberta.

Ken

[Gryphon Rider]

I would change both on my next 10,000 mile inspection.
Gryphon, have you checked the wheel dampers? Slop there i think would transfer into the other drive parts, or vise versa.
What did the drive/wheel splines look like?

I agree here with the other guys, get the parts on hand for the next time. I hate waiting on parts, seems my local dealer has to order most every thing I need. I guess that is the motorcycle market these days.

Have a safe ride to Inzane, maybe I'll get to meet you there, I'm amazed you are coming from Alberta.

Ken

Thanks. I'm looking forward to meeting many of you face-to-face. There is a little slop in the dampers, maybe 3/64". They are the ones made by pruor. The wheel splines look really good; I've only used Pro Honda Moly 60 on them. If anyone is selling Guard Dog or TS Moly moly paste or something equally good at Inzane, I'll pick some up, because I used the last of my Pro Honda.

[Skinhead]

Those wheel splines look like new.

[Gryphon Rider]

Well, a year later and I forgot to mark the parts before I disassembled them.  :'(  The bike now has 115,000km on it and the splines don't look much worse. I'm gonna re-lube and put it back together for another (much shorter this year) trip to Inzane.

[pancho]

Just make sure that whatever you use for lube has plenty of Moly in it,, there are good reasons why Honda recommends and uses it,, It has unique properties to protect sliding components such as splines. Use enough of it and splines can look new forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide


I'd be calling those parts shot Gryphon, looks like they have worn a lot since last year,, might be time to bite the bullet.

[Brewer]

www.partzilla.com 
not to expensive , thats where I got mine from,  all packaging said Honda on it.

Wewaman

Can someone chime in with the specific part numbers?

Many thanks

[salty1]

For what year bike. There is a difference between 97s and theothers on the driveshaft.  Although I think a 97 shaft would work. FWIW

[John Schmidt]

Something I found rather strange; people are now marking their parts before disassembly if splines are involved. I've done that loooong before I ever bought my Valkyrie for the very reason given....wear relationship of the teeth. I do the same thing with the flange's position in the wheel although probably not as important. I do try to postion the whee/flange in the same relationship to the final as it was when I removed it but it does get a bit tricky to do so.

[Gryphon Rider]

Just make sure that whatever you use for lube has plenty of Moly in it,, there are good reasons why Honda recommends and uses it,, It has unique properties to protect sliding components such as splines.

I'd be calling those parts shot Gryphon, looks like they have worn a lot since last year,, might be time to bite the bullet.

I use 3% moly grease as called for in the shop manual on the drive shaft to pinion cup splines. When I zoom in and measure the spline wear on the photos, they are identical as far as I can tell from a year ago to now. I'll get another year out of them for sure.

[Gryphon Rider]

Something I found rather strange; people are now marking their parts before disassembly if splines are involved. I've done that loooong before I ever bought my Valkyrie for the very reason given....wear relationship of the teeth. I do the same thing with the flange's position in the wheel although probably not as important. I do try to postion the whee/flange in the same relationship to the final as it was when I removed it but it does get a bit tricky to do so.

I'm gonna mark the drive shaft and pinion cup NOW so I won't make the same mistake next time. I don't think I have a hope of matching the wheel splines, however, so I'm not even gonna try.

[Tfrank59]

These parts are very very hard to find.  Does anybody have a source say for the rear splines, or even the driveshaft?  My local dealership just kind of chuckles and says I doubt it.  I checked pin wall and they don't have anything – at least that I could find on their site.  Seems like these final drive parts are going to mean the end of Valkrie riding unless we can find replacements at a reasonable price.

[John Schmidt]

You have a dipstick for a dealer then. You can get a new driveshaft(item #2 in the first link) for $43.18 from ProCaliber. And a new pinion cup(joint) for $31.56 (item #13 in the second link). Add a couple more items so you have over $99 ordered and you get free shipping. And they're located right there in Washington.

http://www.procaliber.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb673f870023420a41850/swingarm

http://www.procaliber.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb670f870023420a41847/final-driven-gear

[pancho]

Which parts are you looking for Tfrank59??

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1997/GL1500C+AC/SWINGARM/parts.html

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1997/GL1500C+AC/FINAL+DRIVEN+GEAR/parts.html

If the rear splines are shot, the easiest and cheapest way I have found is to swap the splines out of a 1500 Goldwing.....  Learned that trick on this board.

[pancho]

Wow,, guess I am going to have to check ProCaliber when ordering parts!!  

Last time I did comparisons it seemed Partzilla was the lowest cost,,, that certainly is not the case anymore.  Thanks John

[Tfrank59]

Which parts are you looking for Tfrank59??

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1997/GL1500C+AC/SWINGARM/parts.html

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1997/GL1500C+AC/FINAL+DRIVEN+GEAR/parts.html

If the rear splines are shot, the easiest and cheapest way I have found is to swap the splines out of a 1500 Goldwing.....  Learned that trick on this board.

Yes, I did check partZila – okay, after I posted on this thread--But I couldn't get to the same parts that you have in this link – thanks.  On the other hand some of the parts (I guess the whole assembly) is listed as obsolete.  Of course I saw the price listing before it went obsolete – four figures!  In any case, I guess I better save my pennies and maybe try to buy some new replacements here on part Zila.  I also found out about Swapping Splines from a Gold wing pumpkin here on this forum, but that requires some pretty tricky shimming and stuff for the final gearset, correct?  That might be a little too tricky for a guy like me. Thanks again.
Tom

[salty1]

These parts are very very hard to find.  Does anybody have a source say for the rear splines, or even the driveshaft?  My local dealership just kind of chuckles and says I doubt it.  I checked pin wall and they don't have anything – at least that I could find on their site.  Seems like these final drive parts are going to mean the end of Valkrie riding unless we can find replacements at a reasonable price.

They are available New from a number of vendors. Your local dealership is not with the program! I believe good used parts would be hard to come by.

[John Schmidt]

No need for shimming when you press the old spline out and the good used one in. You never have to shim anything unless you're replacing both the ring and the pinion gear, that's where the clearance is vital, not with the splines.

[pancho]

Just make sure that whatever you use for lube has plenty of Moly in it,, there are good reasons why Honda recommends and uses it,, It has unique properties to protect sliding components such as splines.

I'd be calling those parts shot Gryphon, looks like they have worn a lot since last year,, might be time to bite the bullet.

I use 3% moly grease as called for in the shop manual on the drive shaft to pinion cup splines. When I zoom in and measure the spline wear on the photos, they are identical as far as I can tell from a year ago to now. I'll get another year out of them for sure.

Believe it and it will be so brother,, I do have to agree with you that properly lubed up with moly they should get you to SD and back,, (I wouldn't have the cajones to try it unless I had no choice, and I would pull it at Spearfish just to look).    Wear will certainly accelerate once it has started on parts like that for several different reasons,, clearance, slap and concussion, wear through the hardened surface to the softer body, etc., but with good practices they can go for a while.  Did they go dry at some point in the past to get in that condition?

[Tfrank59]

You have a dipstick for a dealer then. You can get a new driveshaft(item #2 in the first link) for $43.18 from ProCaliber. And a new pinion cup(joint) for $31.56 (item #13 in the second link). Add a couple more items so you have over $99 ordered and you get free shipping. And they're located right there in Washington.

http://www.procaliber.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb673f870023420a41850/swingarm

http://www.procaliber.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb670f870023420a41847/final-driven-gear

Okay, that's good to know. Actually right here in Washington means I have to pay the 10% sales tax 

[Gryphon Rider]

Believe it and it will be so brother...
Did they go dry at some point in the past to get in that condition?

I'm not sure it you're mocking my confidence that my parts will last another year, or if you hold a philosophy that belief creates reality, even when applied to something outside my actual influence? In this case, my confidence comes from my observation of the rate of wear over the last 12,000 km and the assumption that the rate won't change significantly over the next 4000-8000 km when I pull it apart again.  Now that it's re-lubed and bolted back together, I don't think my belief will affect the rate of wear; my assumptions will either be proven or disproved.

I can't be certain, but it seems when I looked at it a year ago, the joint was somewhat dry before I cleaned it up, certainly not like the well-lubed condition I found it in this time.  Before that, I might have only serviced it once or twice.  I'd have to look at my records to be sure.