Tach quit.........now starter non-responsive*******FIXED*******

[CoachDoc]

My '97 Standard has been running great. About 6 months ago I had problems with intermittent cutting out of the electricals. Solved that by cleaning the starter connections, replacing the battery (heavy duty Yuasa) and replacing the battery ground cable. Everything was copacetic until today. Bike started normally, ran up the PCH and about a half hour into the ride I noticed the tach was not working. The bike was running fine, all idiot lights,  headlight, tail and brake lights working. When I got home and turned off the ignition, the starter button was totally dead when I tried to start it up again. Absolutely nothing when the sarter is pushed, i.e. no solenoid click, no dimming of the headlight, etc. I tried playing with the kill switch, tried again to start.....still nothing. I put my voltmeter on the battery and it showed 12.60 volts at the battery terminals. Obviously I can't check the alternator output.

I'm assuming there is a connection between the tach cutting out and the no start situation, but a search of threads on this site show nothing quite like what I'm experiencing. Guys have described tach failure accompanied by loss of various lights, etc., but all my lights are fine. Could a bad starter switch cause the tach to not operate? The starter relay connections are immaculate. I'd appreciate any feedback from the experts lurking on the board. Thanks.

[gordonv]

Sounds to me like the start button may not be releasing properly.

Does it have movement, both in and out?

[PhredValk]

Do you have lights when you turn the key? Make sure the battery is OK. On my IS all of the dash electronics started to flash and then quit just before she died due to a bad alternator...
Fred.

[CoachDoc]

Sounds to me like the start button may not be releasing properly.

Does it have movement, both in and out?

Starter button does have normal movement, but no response. Just realized my headlight is not working. As of right now all the other operating and idiot light remain functional. Battery voltage up to 12.90 after a few hours on the Battery Tender, and no improvement. Battery is only 6 months old.

[gordonv]

I suggested the starter switch because I remember something being said about that and the tach being related.

I would fix that headlight/starter switch first, and when that is OK, see if the tach is still not working, and move one from there.

[CoachDoc]

I suggested the starter switch because I remember something being said about that and the tach being related.

I would fix that headlight/starter switch first, and when that is OK, see if the tach is still not working, and move one from there.

Yeah, Im thinking replacing the starter and kill switches sounds like the right place to start. The headlight is of course hard wired.

[heavyd]

Same symptoms mine had when my alternator died. I was driving when the tach quit, didn't worry much about that but then my radio quit, I got cut off and the horn didn't work, then I started losing power. Luckily I knew there was a gas station coming up so I was trying to limp it there, when I put my signal light on to turn in that used the last of my juice. If I charged the battery though I could drive for 10-15 mins before it started failing again. If I am reading your posts right though you are still down after charging the battery? You mentioned changing the ground strap, has anything worked lose there and lost ground?

[Chrisj CMA]

Like heavyd...I was thinking alternator.  How many miles since you checked the brushes and cleaned out the dust? 

[CoachDoc]

Like heavyd...I was thinking alternator.  How many miles since you checked the brushes and cleaned out the dust? 

I've never opened the alternator, but it doesn't make sense to me that the alternator could be the culprit. I still had plenty of juice in my battery when the tach cut out, and now with the battery fully charged I still have no headlight, no tach, and no start. I'm thinking wiring or switch related. Make sense? If so, where do I look?

[Chrisj CMA]

Like heavyd...I was thinking alternator.  How many miles since you checked the brushes and cleaned out the dust? 

I've never opened the alternator, but it doesn't make sense to me that the alternator could be the culprit. I still had plenty of juice in my battery when the tach cut out, and now with the battery fully charged I still have no headlight, no tach, and no start. I'm thinking wiring or switch related. Make sense? If so, where do I look?

It may be just the switch this time, but the brushes in the alternators dont last forever.....$5 to change them and blow the dust out, check the bearing and go on for another 50K.  Its cheap easy peace of mind.

Also, the start button/switch is a suspect but also the starting solenoid.  If the terminals are melted thats a whole nuther job

[R J]

Do the easy things 1st.

1.  Check the starter switch.   I mean open it up and look at the contacts.  Make any adjustments needed.   Put some electrical grease on it and put it back together.

2.  Start now?  NO

3.  Pull the right side cover and look for a big fat black cover on the wiring.

4.  Slide the cover back and take a look at the connection.   If it is melted and the fuse blown you need to put a new one on.

5.  Refer Jeff K generic parts post in Shop Talk for the part needed.

6.  If that is not the problem, then start chasing ALL battery cables.

7.  Take each end off.

8.  Clean it up, sand on the post and connection material.

9.  Wipe your sanding debris off.

10. Reinstall.

11. Repeat 7 thru 10 till all connections are clean.

12. Still no start, get back to us.

13. Cheers.

[CoachDoc]

Do the easy things 1st.

1.  Check the starter switch.   I mean open it up and look at the contacts.  Make any adjustments needed.   Put some electrical grease on it and put it back together.

2.  Start now?  NO

3.  Pull the right side cover and look for a big fat black cover on the wiring.

4.  Slide the cover back and take a look at the connection.   If it is melted and the fuse blown you need to put a new one on.

5.  Refer Jeff K generic parts post in Shop Talk for the part needed.

6.  If that is not the problem, then start chasing ALL battery cables.

7.  Take each end off.

8.  Clean it up, sand on the post and connection material.

9.  Wipe your sanding debris off.

10. Reinstall.

11. Repeat 7 thru 10 till all connections are clean.

12. Still no start, get back to us.

13. Cheers.

RJ, great list. I actually have a new starter/kill switch on hand that I bought a while ago while chasing another electrical issue, so I'm going to install that for sure. The main fuse is good.......checked it yesterday. All the battery connections and ground look good also. I disconnected them all yesterday, run over them with emery paper and reinstalled them. Any chance the ignition on/ off switch could be the culprit?

[Momz]

There is a fuseable link at the solenoid.
Easy check, and it comes with a spare on the solenoid.

[R J]

There is a fuseable link at the solenoid.
Easy check, and it comes with a spare on the solenoid.

Momz are you referring to the one I noted in #4?

I have a picture somewhere of it burnt, I'll look & see if i can find it.



Replace with this part #:

[CoachDoc]

There is a fuseable link at the solenoid.
Easy check, and it comes with a spare on the solenoid.

Momz are you referring to the one I noted in #4?

I have a picture somewhere of it burnt, I'll look & see if i can find it.

OK, now I'm confused. I thought that in your #4 you were talking about the metal dog bone main fuse.

[Highbinder]

Check your diode, that little device determines where all the power goes and when, when it goes everything gets confused, sometimes things work sometime they don't....look in your fuse box, next to the fuses on the right you will see what looks like a fuse going vertical, that's the diode, I usually just replace it to see if its good, there is noway to tell by just looking at it..could be your problem..good luck.

[CoachDoc]

Replaced the starter/kill switch combination today and I once again have a starter, headlight, and a working tach. Spent a lot of time pouring over the wiring diagram and it is pretty obvious the connection between the starter and headlight. How the tach enters the equation still has me scratching my head.

I truly love this bike. I've been riding for 48 years, had lots of bikes, but this may be my all time favorite. That said I'm hoping for a better ratio of riding time to troubleshooting/fixing time in the next couple of years compared to what I've experienced in the first two years I've had my Valk. The electrical problems in particular are a real PITA. That's all I have to say about thayatttt.

[Bighead]

Hang in there Coach I have two Valks and I guess I am the lucky one and have never had a problem of any kind with either. Ride safe

[CoachDoc]

Hang in there Coach I have two Valks and I guess I am the lucky one and have never had a problem of any kind with either. Ride safe

Thanks, Bighead. Maybe some of your good fortune Valk-wise will rub off on me.

[rugguy]

The title says, "FIXED" but I don't see how you did it....

[Bone]

Reply #16

[rugguy]

Reply #16

Great. Thanks.....one more reason I don't hunt snakes for a living.......

[CoachDoc]

The title says, "FIXED" but I don't see how you did it....

I replaced the starter switch. Fired up right away afterwards, with tach and headlight working again. Afterwards I cleaned all the battery cable attachments, especially the ground strap and it's contact point. I also cleaned all the fuse holders, trying to get ahead of future problems.

I'd love for somebody to refer to the wiring diagrams and explain to me like I'm six years old the specific connection between the starter switch and the tach. I still don't see it when I trace the wiring on the diagram. Thanks for all the help and replies.

[Grandpot]

Coachdoc:
On sheet 1 of the prints, the ignition switch goes to 10A Tail Meter fuse which then goes to SP8 and then to Sheet 6.  On sheet 6, SP30 supplies 12V and branches at SP30 to sheet 5.  On sheet 5 you can see where SP30 supplies 12V to the tach.   

[CoachDoc]

Coachdoc:
On sheet 1 of the prints, the ignition switch goes to 10A Tail Meter fuse which then goes to SP8 and then to Sheet 6.  On sheet 6, SP30 supplies 12V and branches at SP30 to sheet 5.  On sheet 5 you can see where SP30 supplies 12V to the tach.   

Thanks for the info. I'll see how that looks on the expanded 1 page wiring schematic that comes in the shop manual.

[Grandpot]

I may have misunderstood.  When you said Starter Switch did you mean the Starter Button or the Ignition Switch?  The Starter Button only pulls in the Starter Solenoid and disconnects the Headlight momentarily.

[CoachDoc]

I may have misunderstood.  When you said Starter Switch did you mean the Starter Button or the Ignition Switch?  The Starter Button only pulls in the Starter Solenoid and disconnects the Headlight momentarily.

Yes, I realized after the fact that you were referring to the ignition switch. What I replaced was the starter/kill switch combo on the right handlebar. If you have the time and the intellectual curiosity, see if you can figure out how that combo gets involved with the tach.

[Grandpot]

Ok, the Kill switch makes more sense.
On Sheet 5, 12V takes the following path:
10A Ignition fuse
SP1
SP2
Into the Bank Angle sensor
Out the Bank Angle sensor on the Black/Lt Green wire
To the Engine Stop switch
Out the Engine Stop switch on the Black/White wire
SP27
Into the Ignition Control Module on pin 4
Out the Ignition Control Module on pin 16
Ends in the Tach.

 

[CoachDoc]

Yeah, Grandpot, looks like you've nailed it. Great sleuthing and thanks.