Vredestein Sportrac3 205/55R16 94V

[pancho]

Wonder if you guys running this tire had to do the "nut cage mod"? I got one coming.

[big poppa pump]

Not needed if you're riding Solo. Definitely needed if you do 2 UP (learnt the hard way), rubs the right side nut cage.

[Jess from VA]

JFYI, a 55 CT is just a bit wider than a 60.

What BPP said on passengers.  What he said about a right side rub may be common (I don't know, I cut mine out), but the rare bike can also need the fender washer mod moving the fender over a bit to get the tire better centered in the space.

You run 13" or shorter shocks (stiff or cushy)?

Solo you may never rub.  If you leave them in, you need to inspect the tire (top sidewall) for awhile after rides, light scrubbing will probably not be felt or heard or smelled.  Test ride should include bumps and hard bouncing leans.

I would not depart on a long ride anywhere until you are sure.

[The emperor has no clothes]

JFYI, a 55 CT is just a bit wider than a 60.

What BPP said on passengers.  What he said about a right side rub may be common (I don't know, I cut mine out), but the rare bike can also need the fender washer mod moving the fender over a bit to get the tire better centered in the space.

You run 13" or shorter shocks (stiff or cushy)?

Solo you may never rub.  If you leave them in, you need to inspect the tire (top sidewall) for awhile after rides, light scrubbing will probably not be felt or heard or smelled.  Test ride should include bumps and hard bouncing leans.

I would not depart on a long ride anywhere until you are sure.

I thought the 55,60,65 designation was a height percentage of the width (205)? Which would make them all 205 cm? Wide and the 55 would be that percentage of that in height. Have I got this wrong?

[Jess from VA]

Don't know about all that.... just have read several times a 55 is a few MMs wider than a 60.

However, my 60s do not have a few MMs of space to the swingarm, more like one credit card (yet have never rubbed).

[Pappy!]

May also rub if you have gone to a shorter shock.
I have that tire and I did do the mod to the inside of the fender.
Better safe than sorry!

[R J]

When ya have it tore down to where the modification would be easy, why not just do it now instead of tearing it apart a 2nd time to perform the mod.

My kids used to argue when there was a few more minutes involved.

One day, I opened my mouth and just announced to them, don't firkin argue, just do it.

They quit arguing and later in life said, why didn't you tell us to shut up and do it earlier in life?

As Forrest Gump would say:
“That's all I have to say about that.”

[John Schmidt]

RJ, that sounds like a replay of me talking to my girls as they were growing up. And, later in life a couple of them had the same response so "dad" had to remind them of conversations years earlier. 

[vanagon40]

. . . .
I thought the 55,60,65 designation was a height percentage of the width (205)? Which would make them all 205 cm? Wide and the 55 would be that percentage of that in height. Have I got this wrong?

You are correct.  The 55 tire is the same width, but slightly smaller in diameter.





(Minor correction: the width is 205mm, not 205cm.  205mm is about 8 inches, 205cm is almost 7 feet.)

[Jess from VA]

If true, I stand corrected. 

[pancho]

It's true Jess,, what meathead explained is correct  ...

Well, I got the tire today,, just sitting next to my Avon, you would not think it would not fit on the bike!! it looks huge,,   I like it.




After seeing the tire and reading the posts, I agree, there is no reason not to remove the nut cages. The only reason I was thinking I did not want to is because of the limited space I have to work with on the outside, and I didn't want to mess up the appearance, but I can get correct hardware.



I run the stock shocks, keep them fairly stiff and ride by myself right now, so there is on stress on the rear, but I still feel as RJ said,  "just do it" then it can't interfere. I have three or four more thousand miles on the Avon, but I am looking forward to trying out a car tire and seeing how it feels..  I can handle the additional mileage, and I really like how it looks.

When I get ready to mount it, I will take dental casts of the beads of the tires and the bike rim to do some measurements just to investigate some of these "flaming death" rumors that have circulated and just for my own information. I'll do a post of what I find at that time, but enough people have run car tires that I would have to see something really out of whack to make me back off.

[Jess from VA]

It's a good idea to cut the cages out Ponch, glad you arrived there.

Do not shove the wheel-less tire up in the fender, it doesn't fit.  (I did it.... and had an oh crap moment)

However, with wheel and air, it does fit.... it gets smaller, and heavier (ugh).  

It is tight but does fit.

On the cages, you have Daniel's how-to?  
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2005/08/24/valkyrieRearFenderNutCageMod.html

If you use a grinder remember it can get so hot it can damage the outside paint.  Short bursts are better than long grinds.

Once split, one side will stress bend off pretty clean, the other side won't (tacks are better on one side), and will leave sharp edges to be cleaned up to save fingers.  I think you can just reuse the fat nut.  It bothered me that the fat nut was almost as big as the cages, so I replaced with a single skinny (regular hex) nut and no washer, and all has been tight for years (no locktite either).  Others use a carriage dome head bolt from inside out, but then you have to figure out how long a bolt to cover outside the struts with nice acorn nuts.

Also, it may be easier on a bench, but I just jacked it up and took the wheel off and jacked it higher and braced with jack stands and scooted up inside the wheel well and did it on the bike.  Good time to look things over, I had some tail light wire rub to fix, and some rust to remove and paint.  

Finally, you won't know if you need the rarely necessary fender washer mod, until you complete the job.  There is a very good link on this somewhere, but I cannot find it now.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php?topic=65849.0

And this is always worth considering.
http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/5204_bearing_mod.pdf




  

[Crackerborn]

I had to grind the welds off so I ended up working on the bench. I used a diamond cutter in the die grinder so I could keep a wet sponge on the grind and not blister any paint. If they are still making that Vredestein when I wear out the Yokahama, I might have to look at it again.

[pancho]

I removed a Dunolp tire from a spare rear wheel and took a look and made some measurements of beads on the two tires. I did not need to go as far as making casts and measuring them as I saw nothing to give me any concern with one being able to seal on the rim of the other.



I mount all my tires by hand, and what did give me some concern, was the fact that the car tire was made and molded for a wheel that is wider than the ones on our bikes.



This meant that there was going to be undue stress placed on the tire to get it to seat, and the sidewalls would be at an unnatural angle while running which may place stress an areas that were never made to be stressed. Then I start thinking about belts being bent and possibly inducing faults that may be prone to delamination

Well, I seated the other side, and it was the hardest tire I had ever mounted as it was so wide that I had to severely deform the tire to get the beads into the center of the rim. I had to crush the tire down with a large wood clamp into a funny shape. Luckily, this tire is mode from high silicone rubber and is very soft and pliable,, I don't feel as if I did any permanent damage to it, but I surely did not like doing that to a tire that I was going to be trusting my life on it's reliability. After blowing it up, seating the beads and checking it out, I feel more comfortable with the whole setup,, the tire and sidewalls seem to be in stable position, and the whole rig just looks and feels good. I feel safe enough about it to install it when I get ready and try it out.



One thing,, I got a tire with the 55 profile, and should have gotten the 205/60 as the 55 is quite a bit smaller in circumference than the recommended 180 tires that go on out bikes. THis is going to up my RPM's at any given speed, and reduce my gas mileage...  Well,, thats OK, this is really just a test to see what the car tires are all about. I'll let you know what I think when I install it, and ride on it in a month or two.

[Jess from VA]

They work Ponch, don't over-think it.  (nothing wrong with thinking  LOL) 

I had exactly the same before-mounted moments of....... holy crap!!  'Course, I watched mine easily mounted on a fancy dealer tire machine.  And all my GATTs balanced with less weight than any bike tire.
 
(supposedly, based on past posts, the 55 only gives you 200rpms higher than a 60)


BTW, if I ship you my wheel, can you make it shine like yours?   
 

[pancho]

 
   "They work Ponch, don't over-think it."

Are you kiddin me?? That's my middle name!


   "BTW, if I ship you my wheel, can you make it shine like yours?"   

WHAT?  from the guy that polishes his wheel by putting the bike on a stand and runs the motor in gear to polish his wheels?? ... HA  ... Just send er off to me Jess, and I'll save you from that risky behavior of yours.

[MarkT]

Now that you've gone to all that trouble worrying about safety, check the date code on the tire.

The Vredestein Sporttrac 3 was last made in 2008 (take that with a grain of salt, not verified but that's the claim of Waukegan Tire).  It's not listed on the Vredestein website now so it's out of production.  I wanted one, but didn't want an old tire.  Right now, there are no tires in Vredestein's line that interest me.  However there was, until recently.  The Snowtrac 3 and it was in production from 2008-2012 (I think that's the end date).



 I couldn't find a seller for them, other than one that bragged about how well they were warehoused.  Meaning, OLD INVENTORY.  And $160 a pop at that.  I REALLY like some of their tires, and especially the profile, and the reviews of the Snowtrac - as well as darkside reviews of the Sporttrac 3.

So if I'm going to buy an old tire, then I'm going to get it for a good price.  So I bought this one - a Snowtrac 2, at $80 delivered.  They are still available on ebay.  And in 205/60-16.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/351050218147

[big poppa pump]

The Sportrac 3 205/55 should have a manufacture date of 0109.

[MarkT]

The Sportrac 3 205/55 should have a manufacture date of 0109.

That presumes they were only made the first week of 09.  Doubt it.

[fudgie]

Where do you find the date?

[fudgie]

One thing,, I got a tire with the 55 profile, and should have gotten the 205/60 as the 55 is quite a bit smaller in circumference than the recommended 180 tires that go on out bikes. THis is going to up my RPM's at any given speed, and reduce my gas mileage...  Well,, thats OK, this is really just a test to see what the car tires are all about. I'll let you know what I think when I install it, and ride on it in a month or two.

Mine only increased 400-500 rpms. Really no change in mpg

[DenverDave]

Where do you find the date?

On the side wall, next to the "DOT" info

This tire was made the 35th week of 2011



It will only be on one side of the tire

[big poppa pump]

The Sportrac 3 205/55 should have a manufacture date of 0109.

That presumes they were only made the first week of 09.  Doubt it.

I take that back. My 205/55 DOT date is 1109.

[MarkT]

One thing,, I got a tire with the 55 profile, and should have gotten the 205/60 as the 55 is quite a bit smaller in circumference than the recommended 180 tires that go on out bikes. THis is going to up my RPM's at any given speed, and reduce my gas mileage...  Well,, thats OK, this is really just a test to see what the car tires are all about. I'll let you know what I think when I install it, and ride on it in a month or two.

Mine only increased 400-500 rpms. Really no change in mpg

I lost 3-4 mpg.

[pancho]

 

   "Now that you've gone to all that trouble worrying about safety, check the date code on the tire."


It's well within my comfort level MarkT,,,, it will be replacing out a 12 year old Avon Venom I put on last year, It came with a Pinwall wheel, and looked and felt like brand new,, got about 9 K on it now.  I wasn't really "worrying about safety",,  just checking things out for myself to see if I was comfortable with it. 

               "I lost 3-4 mpg."       While I am not expecting it, that range certainly wouldn't surprise me.

[fantsybikr]

JFYI, a 55 CT is just a bit wider than a 60.

What BPP said on passengers.  What he said about a right side rub may be common (I don't know, I cut mine out), but the rare bike can also need the fender washer mod moving the fender over a bit to get the tire better centered in the space.

You run 13" or shorter shocks (stiff or cushy)?

Solo you may never rub.  If you leave them in, you need to inspect the tire (top sidewall) for awhile after rides, light scrubbing will probably not be felt or heard or smelled.  Test ride should include bumps and hard bouncing leans.

I would not depart on a long ride anywhere until you are sure.

I thought the 55,60,65 designation was a height percentage of the width (205)? Which would make them all 205 cm? Wide and the 55 would be that percentage of that in height. Have I got this wrong?

you got it correct 205 wide is 205 wide and the height is the 2 digit % of width

[pancho]

"So if I'm going to buy an old tire, then I'm going to get it for a good price.  So I bought this one - a Snowtrac 2, at $80 delivered.  They are still available on ebay.  And in 205/60-16."

I wonder MarkT, what made you select that tire?  The first thing I see is Snowtrac, like in snow....  I would probably just pass it over without even considering it.

[cheeseman1969]

On the Petco, last summer was on a east coast trip. Ran out of gas completely in IA. In a thunderstorm. I was bone dry and the Petco never warned me. After that I really watched the miles and filled up at 200 to 220. I have and secondary tank of 4.5 gal. So not trusting the Petco.  I took it apart this winter, cleaned it. But did not find anything wrong. But still wondering. That was something else with running it today to see if the Petco worked.

[MarkT]

"So if I'm going to buy an old tire, then I'm going to get it for a good price.  So I bought this one - a Snowtrac 2, at $80 delivered.  They are still available on ebay.  And in 205/60-16."

I wonder MarkT, what made you select that tire?  The first thing I see is Snowtrac, like in snow....  I would probably just pass it over without even considering it.

Well, that's you.  Not me.  Feel free to decide what you will do for yourself, and I will make my own decisions too.

I don't put a lot of stock in their naming convention.  I like the tread pattern, like the profile, like the price, like the DS reviews, and trust my own experience in the tire industry as well as personal experience.  You don't have some of these inputs I do, so your decision would be as you said.  I look for advice when I need it - unsolicited, not so much.  I expect I will have a good luck with it, but probably this tire only as when it's worn out I won't be buying a 10+ yr old tire; it's out of production.  It may wear faster than a non-snow tire but at $80, OK.  Still should last longer than a bike tire and have far greater traction.  Might be noisy.  Don't care much on that, the wind is already noisy.  Tread depth new is 9.0mm center, that's 11.3/32 - same as the best of the rear tires depth, and being a car tire, expect the rubber is harder than bike tires.  I'm thinking it will easily outlast a bike tire and perform better.  Don't expect surprise failure from age based on my experience and monitoring.  I just mounted it, looks great.  A couple more maintenance items while the bike is on the lift, and I'll go see how it feels.

[pancho]

Hey MarkT,, surely wasn't looking to get confrontational with you,, just wondering why you chose that tire. Thanks for the info.

[pancho]

I put the wheel with the Verderstein on the bike today,, looks good.



The bike feels a bit clumsy compared to the Avon I took off, but not overly distracting,, I did have to get used to it,, just a bit different. Where I notice a big difference is when maneuvering at a slow speed. When making sharp low speed turns the rear feels squiggly and squirmy, like something funny is going on with the tire sidewall. Is this normal with car tires? normal with the sportrac 3? or do I have an incorrect tire pressure,, running 33 34.

[pancho]

Not needed if you're riding Solo. Definitely needed if you do 2 UP (learnt the hard way), rubs the right side nut cage.

I did notice that the right side was quite a bit closer to the tire than the left side....????

[The emperor has no clothes]

I put the wheel with the Verderstein on the bike today,, looks good.



The bike feels a bit clumsy compared to the Avon I took off, but not overly distracting,, I did have to get used to it,, just a bit different. Where I notice a big difference is when maneuvering at a slow speed. When making sharp low speed turns the rear feels squiggly and squirmy, like something funny is going on with the tire sidewall. Is this normal with car tires? normal with the sportrac 3? or do I have an incorrect tire pressure,, running 33 34.

Haven't used that tire but have 60k on car tires. You just might not be used to it yet. The slow speed handling is different for sure. Be careful of pot holes and gutters, etc. till you get used to it. You can try different pressures and see how it feels for you, 34 is good for me. I think you'll get used to it shortly and won't even notice it.

[big poppa pump]

I put the wheel with the Verderstein on the bike today,, looks good.



The bike feels a bit clumsy compared to the Avon I took off, but not overly distracting,, I did have to get used to it,, just a bit different. Where I notice a big difference is when maneuvering at a slow speed. When making sharp low speed turns the rear feels squiggly and squirmy, like something funny is going on with the tire sidewall. Is this normal with car tires? normal with the sportrac 3? or do I have an incorrect tire pressure,, running 33 34.

Never experienced that feeling. Felt comfortable the moment I took off after the tire install. Your tire pressure is a wee bit on the low side. Bump it up to 40 PSI and work your way down. I found my sweet spot to be around 37-38 PSI.

[pancho]

I'll give that a try tomorrow big poppa, see what it acts like.

                          "Be careful of pot holes and gutters, etc. till you get used to it"               

Yeah, I've noticed   "ya got to keep your eyes on the road"   as road abnormalities make the tire track off on it's own.

[fudgie]

My slow speeds are awesome with a ct. Alot more positive control. Imho


Side note i looked at the date on my sport trac and its 1108 

[pancho]

   " Your tire pressure is a wee bit on the low side. Bump it up to 40 PSI and work your way down. I found my sweet spot to be around 37-38 PSI."

Well, I would not have thought that small an amount of change would make a big difference, BUT, that was it,, changed everything. I upped the pressure to 38 or so and the tire is now acting superbly at both slow speed and high. I am happy with the results and can say that I really like the ride and the handling of this car tire, thanks.

Also thanks to joshcornkid, I don't think he discovered this tire, but his write up on it was what got me to thinking that I might try a car tire at some point....    and thanks to all who helped with their comments and input. 

fudgie, I think I purchased my tire from the same place as you and have the same manufacture date, don't worry about it, the tires are fine for as long as it will take to wear them out. The compound on mine is in the condition of a six month old tire, and these tires are high silicone which may mean less volatile compounds to gas off quickly,, they are good to go and have not been sitting in the sun for six years.