I'm taking names and turning them in

[Scanner]

Don't worry Dangle,  Jeff just hates pizza....years of delivering them has turned him off.  Plus, they get kinda messed up carrying them in his saddlebags and people get upset a lot.

[Jeff K]

Any Feds reading this and want me then come and get me, I'll be cringing in my mama's basement.  Bring a pizza and I'll cooperate. Promise.

So... "Dangle" joins the club two days ago just to join in on this thread?

Six posts and four of them to "stir the pot"? 

Sorry Jeff, Hope I didn't hit a nerve.

You're right on the post count. Thanks for keeping count.

Hit a nerve? I don't think so.
Post count? The board count your posts, I don't need to. Just look under your handle.  

[Jeff K]

Don't worry Dangle,  Jeff just hates pizza....years of delivering them has turned him off.  Plus they got kinda messed up carrying them in his saddlebags and people got upset a lot.

Nope, never was that low on the food chain. But it does sound like you are speaking from life experience.

Carried a pizza on the back seat of my Valk to our camp in Sturgis once, but that's as close to delivering pizza as I have ever come.

Why do you always attack people and not issues??

[Dangle]

That telling him. Gotta watch where you are on that food chain. There's a world of difference between deliving pie and eating it.
I know I'm new here but thanks for not letting my early surge in post counts go to my head.  I was sort of feeling proud of myself after passing the big 5 and your post was just what I needed to get my feet back on the ground. Thanks!

[Jeff K]

That telling him. Gotta watch where you are on that food chain. There's a world of difference between deliving pie and eating it.
I know I'm new here but thanks for not letting my early surge in post counts go to my head.  I was sort of feeling proud of myself after passing the big 5 and your post was just what I needed to get my feet back on the ground. Thanks!

You are welcome.
Oh, your spell check must be malfunctioning. Just a heads up.

[Scanner]

Gee whizzers Jeff.... sorry if you felt I was picking on you.   Try to just ignore me and keep after those people who post too much for your liking and "stir the pot" by disagreeing with you. 

[Jeff K]

Gee whizzers Jeff.... sorry if you felt I was picking on you.   Try to just ignore me and keep after those people who post too much for your liking and "stir the pot" by disagreeing with you. 

So, what you are saying is you are unable or unwilling to answer the question?
I'm ok with that.

[Scanner]

lol...you really don't get it do you? You attack Dangle and then cry you're being attacked when it gets a response.

Hypocrite - look it up.

[Jeff K]

lol...you really don't get it do you? You attack Dangle and then cry you're being attacked when it gets a response.

Hypocrite - look it up.

So, what you are saying is you are unable or unwilling to answer the question?
I'm ok with that.

[Scanner]

Cool, glad you're OK with that.  Since that's outta the way, I'll have mine with extra pepperoni and don't be late!.  

[G-Man]

WHAT KIND OF THING ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?  I'm still waiting for you to point out where they are asking for personal data or other "illegal" information............................................................................sound of crickets.............crickets..........

I hope you aren't holding your breath. It's good business fomenting mistrust of the guberment. The Healthcare lobbies are spending over a million dollars a day to prevent any sort of universal healthcare law ever becoming reality. Why? Money! Greed!
In the mean time while Americans are paying out the nose for healthcare, our country  is the only 1st world country without a Universal Healthcare system.

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990


Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960


Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.


Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana


Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.


Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

As a physician in this "less than terific healthcare system" that you have spouted all these figures about, I can fully attest that ALL of the figures spouted have nothing to do with the healthcare system at all.  ALL of your figures are directly a result of the STUPID choices INDIVIDUALS make about their own health and life styles.  Example: Infant Mortality is NOT related to the healthcare system.  It is related to more and more 14 and 15 year olds getting pregnant and NOT SEEKING PRENATAL CARE, or mothers having more kids than they can afford, or bringing home newborns into homes over ridden with roaches and rats  The excuse that people have no insurance or that it's too expensive is an outright lie in order to blame something else other than the INDIVIDUAL.  They view their healthcare and the healthcare of their children the same way they view their education, or their communities.....THEY JUST DON'T GIVE A $hit. 

Our healthcare system has the ability to provide the greatest of care to all individuals, insured or not.  I did my residency in the South Bronx.  The hospital is pretty much strictly a Medicaid hospital and the ER AND the clinics treated the insured, under-insured, and non-insured.  It does so without alienating any patient due to race, sex, or ability to pay.  The patient made the choice to show up, return for follow-up care, follow doctors orders, etc.  It is not the "systems" responsibilty to go and find these patients and then force them to do what's right regarding their own health, or the health of an unborn.  You will never hear a democrat say this.   

Personal responsibility and the lack of people taking anything, especially their own health and education, seriously is the root of all the figures you have spouted.  I also find it strange that the actual figures continue to change almost hourly, depending on who is spouting them and where they are getting the information from.

Remember, 86.913% of all figures are made up!!!!!!!

[G-Man]

I for one believe you can make any point you want with statistics.  But, I also believe most of those numbers....people dying of various terrible things are more a result of personal lifestyle chioices rather than the fact we dont have universal health care.

If you live on McDonalds and twinkies and you never exercise, you cannot blame the format of the healthcare system for your early heart attack

Thank you, brother!  Clarity seems so easy.  Unfortunately too many want to fog up the glass with bad breath so that reality seems unclear and smells bad.  You are 100% CORRECT !!!!!  And that's a figure based on truth!

[G-Man]

One way of looking at it. If you get sick or contract a disease, it's your fault so sorry it's been good to know ya. Screw Universal Healthcare, let Darwinism take it's course. Only the fit and the strongest will survive. It's the natual thing to do.

Again, fogging up the glass with bad breath.

If you get sick or contract a disease.....seek help.  It's there.  It's availbale.  We are waiting in the ERs and the clinics to help you.  If you don't come in, how are we to know you are sick?  If you don't come back, how are we to know if you are getting better?  How are we to know if you took the medication that the hospital clinics will dispense at a fee based on what you can pay or even for free (most hospitals in NYC run in the red from year to year)?  We'll even send you home with supplies and instructions to do your own dressing changes.  We'll even arrange for ambulette service to take you home and bring you back or give you a voucher for mass transit.  We'll even set up Medicaid or a sliding scale if you are a visitor from another country.  The hospitals in NYC set up satellite clinics in every neighborhood, with big signs, in commercial, shopping areas.  Who's responsibility is it if people don't seek care?

When the Bull$hit stop???  If you think anything I'VE just said is bull$hit, the hospital is St. Barnabas Hospital...Third Ave and 183rd St. Bronx, NY 10467.  (718) 960-9000.  Check all of my facts.....I DARE YOU!

HOW COME OBAMA WILL NEVER TELL YOU ANY OF THIS?  I'm getting so tired of the BULL$HIT on top of more BULL$HIT!

[Dangle]

Interesting posts Gman, and thanks for taking time out of your busy day to reply. I can't even imagine the stress an ER doc goes through during the course of a day so thanks again. As a professional what would be your solution to the high cost of healthcare in this country? Although I'm not involved in the health profession, my son-in-law is a physician and comes from a family of physicians and they can attest to the crises facing the healthcare industry; although I don't hear the anger and distaste for the poor and sick as I get from your posts.

BTW, What is with the physicans at St Barnabas trying to unionize?

Also your remarks about bad breath over the internet was funny. 

[G-Man]

Interesting posts Gman, and thanks for taking time out of your busy day to reply. I can't even imagine the stress an ER doc goes through during the course of a day so thanks again. As a professional what would be your solution to the high cost of healthcare in this country? Although I'm not involved in the health profession, my son-in-law is a physician and comes from a family of physicians and they can attest to the crises facing the healthcare industry; although I don't hear the anger and distaste for the poor and sick as I get from your posts.

BTW, What is with the physicans at St Barnabas trying to unionize?

Also your remarks about bad breath over the internet was funny. 

You have got to be kidding me.  Just because I place blame where it should be.....you tell me I have anger and distaste for the poor and sick???  There goes another liberal trying to trying to discredit someone who disagrees with them and makes incredibley valid points.  My anger is targeted at those who put blame where it doesn't belong.  Oh, wait....I see now, telling the sick and poor to come in and be taken care, regardless of ability to pay, and we'll even arrange for you to get there is truly showing showing anger and distaste towards them.  I'm sorry...I didn't really see how that would come across in my post.  And when a patient is told to have a nice day, Doctors are really telling them to go and F themselves, right?   

Instead of attacking me........Why not attack my post and show me, and everyone, where I'm wrong.  Would babies live longer if prenatal care is sought?  It is available, for free.  Would babies live longer if mothers could provide for them?  Would babies live longer if they weren't brought home to roach and rat infested apartments?  Would the sick feel better if they sought care?  It's all available and it's all free.  What more can "the system" do?

Maybe, instead of putting the blame where it doesn't belong, and the entire nation stressed education and resposibility, there wouldn't be so many sick.  Maybe if parents were responsible and fed their children proper meals, their kids wouldn't be overweight and sick.  Now you'll tell me I have anger towards the poor because they can't provide these things.....THEN THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE KIDS IN THE FIRST PLACE.  If you can't be there to raise and nurture and child properly, why have them?   

Amazing how things get spun around to suit certain needs.

Education is the key.  The medical system does everything it can by being out there in the communities, health fairs, walks and marathons, doctors treating for free (yes, free), doctors and nurses travelling to underserved areas on their own dime, etc.  You tell me, Mr. Throw The Blame Everywhere Ecxept Where It All Originates.

Oh, and how about tort reform (Sorry OSS).  Maybe if hospitals didn't have to pay millions of dollars every year for malpractice insurance, and doctors didn't have to pay tens of thousands in malpractice insurance, and nurses, out-patirnt clinics, imaging labs, etc, didn't have to pay millions of dollars in malpractice insurance, certain fees can come way down.  The AMA asked Obama about this and dismessied it immediately.  Why, because he and all the other politicians are lawyers.

And again, personal responsibility, personal responsibility.  Yes, accidents and sickness can happen at anytime, even under the best of conditions. 

[Dangle]

Please doctor, I wasn't blaming or attacking anyone or anything, I was acknowledging that a problem exist and asked for your professional opinion on a solution.

I liked you previous thread better where you were street racing shiny new black corvettes.

BTW, Canon is spelled Cannon unless you were refering to church doctrine.

[G-Man]

And, just set the record straight so I am fully transparent and nobody can call me a liar, I no longer practice medicine.  I now work for the other evil industry, the pharmaceutical industry.  I am a drug safety physician.  My department produces nothing, yet costs my company millions in salaries, office space and supplies, and everything else that entails running a business.  I review adverse events that people have while on our drugs.  My client is the FDA, who places incredibley strict rules on my department, that sometimes are almost impossible to comply with, yet will fine, or shut the company down if we do not comply.  I am responsible for letting the public know about any risks that are associated with taking certain products my company markets.  I guess that's not a good thing either.

[G-Man]

Please doctor, I wasn't blaming or attacking anyone or anything, I was acknowledging that a problem exist and asked for your professional opinion on a solution.

I liked you previous thread better where you were street racing shiny new black corvettes.

BTW, Canon is spelled Cannon unless you were refering to church doctrine.

You did attack me.  You specifically stated that you got anger and distate for the sick from my post, and pitted an entire family of doctors against me.  Now, you attack my spelling.  I'm not an administrative assistant and I don't look up every word type with my Fred Flintstone fingers.  So silly.  You know, All my postings, and reading of posts, on many different boards over many years, I never felt the need to point out a word that was spelled wrong. 

[Dangle]

Thanks for the resume, doctor. Very impressive. When you mention St B.  and the ER I just assumed...  Silly me, but really, I can read windy rants all day long from any Joe Sixpack, with you, I was hoping for a educated response to our healthcare situation. Thank you for the important work you're doing, protecting the public against untried, unsafe drugs.

[G-Man]

Thanks for the resume, doctor. Very impressive. When you mention St B.  and the ER I just assumed...  Silly me, but really, I can read windy rants all day long from any Joe Sixpack, with you, I was hoping for a educated response to our healthcare situation. Thank you for the important work you're doing, protecting the public against untried, unsafe drugs.

More and more attacks on me.  How liberal of you. 

I'm glad that my brothers and sisters on this board will be able to see through your nonsense.

I give a large handful of examples, WITH SOLUTIONS, but because you don't agree with any of them, you make believe they're not there by calling them windy rants.  The only thing that I could write, that you would actually see and agree with would be to say that the healthcare system sucks, we need to raise taxes on the rich so that everyone, regardless of self responsibility, can get their housing, education, and healthcare absotlutely for free.  And, if a doctor makes a mistake, because he has to see 60 patients a day in order to pay for his home, his family, etc ( Oh, I forgot, the doctor isn't entitled to have a house, or kids, only people who didn't do anything to earn them do), the patient and the lawyer are entitled to become millionaires.  I guess I should also confess that the drug companies also suck.  The billions they spend on research and development (only one in 600 compounds make it to the public), drug safety and education, free drugs to those that can't afford it (every drug company has a program that will help out those in need, I also dare to check this one out), exhaustive clinical trials,....that's all Bull$hit too.

So, now that I've conceded (check my spelling on that one, please), agreed that everything sucks and that the rich don't deserve what they've earned, maybe you'll stop attacking me.

My attack: you are the most illinformed person to date on this topic.  You have been the only one, and search my posts (I dare you again) to make me chime in with the gusto I have.  You know nothing about what the healthcare industry and it's population of employees, as well as the pharmaceutical industry and it's employees do in order for you to have the ability to bash it.  Not even a century ago, very common diseases would put you in the grave, but you're right, we're all no good, we lie, we steal, we takle advantage.

I'm out.........

[Skinhead]

Hey G-man,

Thanks for taking the time for all those responses.  Let's you and me have a cold one sometime, I'll buy.

[Sludge]

Thanks G Man for your efforts.  My wife is also in healthcare.  She is a medical social worker and has been for the past 16 years.  Last year she went to Scotland and Ireland to study their socialized systems.  She came home saying "it would NEVER work here"  for a multitude of reasons that I wont go into here (because I cant remember them all).  At any rate, she stayed there a month and studied their systems inside their hospitals 5 days a week during her stay.  I think she has a pretty solid grasp of the differences in care.  Her having a MSW and 16 years in the field ... I trust her judgement.

[Chillerman]

Thanks for the resume, doctor. Very impressive. When you mention St B.  and the ER I just assumed...  Silly me, but really, I can read windy rants all day long from any Joe Sixpack, with you, I was hoping for a educated response to our healthcare situation. Thank you for the important work you're doing, protecting the public against untried, unsafe drugs.

Hey Jim, how's the weather down in New Mexico?  How about a picture of that Valk! 

[Dangle]

GMan, you definitely have a dog in this fight since you work in the pharma industry. Chill alitte dude, I'm not attacking you. Munch on this...
Drug companies are the most profitable industry
The drug companies claim that they need large earnings - 125,835,595,000 in 1999 (2) - to conduct their research and development. They have a point - only up to a degree. Aggressive research is indeed needed. The medications produced by the pharmaceutical industry have improved the quality and length of life of many people. But this justification loses credibility when:

1. Just 1 out of every 5 dollars the drug industry collects goes to drug research.

2. Some drug companies spend almost twice as much money for advertising and marketing as they spend for research.

3. Drug industry profits are so large they outstrip every other industry's profits by far (3).

Drug companies are the most profitable industry. In 2001, a year which saw a drop in employment rates, a plunge in the stock market and symbols of America's economy literally come crashing down, the drug companies continued their reign as the most profitable industry in the annual Fortune 500 list.

While the overall profits of Fortune 500 companies declined by 53%, which was the 2nd biggest dive in profits the Fortune 500 has taken in its 47 years, the top 10 U.S. drug companies increased their profits by 33% (3).

Collectively, the 10 drug companies in the Fortune 500 topped all 3 of the Fortune magazine's measures of company profitability for 2001, according to the magazine's annual analysis of America's most important companies.

These drug companies had the greatest return on revenues, reporting a profit of 18.5 cents for every $1 of sales, which was 8 times higher than the median for all Fortune 500 industries, easily surpassing the next most profitable industry, which was commercial banking with a 13.5% return on revenue)(3).
  

NOW this...

By several measures, health care spending continues to rise at a rapid rate and forcing businesses and families to cut back on operations and household expenses respectively.

In 2008, total national health expenditures were expected to rise 6.9 percent -- two times the rate of inflation.1 Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person1. Total health care spending represented 17 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).

U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4.3 TRILLION in 2017, or 20 percent of GDP.1

In 2008, employer health insurance premiums increased by 5.0 percent – two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.2

Experts agree that our health care system is riddled with inefficiencies, excessive administrative expenses, inflated prices, poor management, and inappropriate care, waste and fraud. These problems significantly increase the cost of medical care and health insurance for employers and workers and affect the security of families.


And what do I get from you? The sick and poor brought all this upon themselve by eating McDonald Cheeseburgers and not taking care of their bodies.

 
 

[Dangle]

Thanks for the resume, doctor. Very impressive. When you mention St B.  and the ER I just assumed...  Silly me, but really, I can read windy rants all day long from any Joe Sixpack, with you, I was hoping for a educated response to our healthcare situation. Thank you for the important work you're doing, protecting the public against untried, unsafe drugs.

Hey Jim, how's the weather down in New Mexico?  How about a picture of that Valk! 

I'm up around 7000ft under a giant pinion tree and the temp shows 87 outside. It's almost always sunny. I got my 440 HD shocks today and waiting on the Corbins to show up. I've been extremely busy getting to know some of the inmates on the board today. Give me time. 

[Detn8er]

Come back Gman.....I was about to call you a Damn Yankee!!!! But I can do that Since I know you and have ridden with you. And I must say you are one good hard working family man that I have a great deal of respect for...Cept for that yankee thang.   Me thinks somebody needs to step back a bit and get a feel for the road before going to fast........To much gravel in the curves ya know. Gitit??

[Serk]

Drug companies are the most profitable industry

I decided to look this one up just for the heck of it... According to the first hit I found Googling on "most profitable industry" this article:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/industries/profits/

Says Pharmaceuticals are #3...

1. Just 1 out of every 5 dollars the drug industry collects goes to drug research.

Wow... That figure impresses the heck outta me... 20% of all their GROSS income goes to R&D? That's VERY impressive... If that's true, I have a LOT more respect for the drug companies than I used to... 20% of your gross income to R&D is completely unprecedented

2. Some drug companies spend almost twice as much money for advertising and marketing as they spend for research.

Hmmm... So if they spend 20% of their gross on R&D, then they spend another 40% of their gross on marketing... Meaning they've spent 60% of their gross income before anything else is said and done... Hmmm... If they're even netting 60% of their gross income, that'd be unprecedented...

3. Drug industry profits are so large they outstrip every other industry's profits by far (3).

Disproved above, they don't outsrip every other industry's profits... They're not even #1, they're #3... Beyond that, this is still (kind of) Capitalism... Since when is making a profit a bad thing???

Now, I'll give you that SOMETHING needs to be done... And what, IMHO as a totally uneducated person with no dog in this hunt other than as a consumer (Full disclosure - I'm a professional computer geek, and one who's job is about to be off shored at that (I'm training my replacements right now in fact). And I don't work in anything remotely like the healthcare industry (IT for an oil company currently)) should be done is this - Tort reform... Shut down the ambulance chasers. Shut down the frivolous lawsuits. The costs of liability insurance, not to mention the emotional and psychological toll it takes on health care providers, and their income is just inexcusable.

[Dangle]

Come back Gman.....I was about to call you a Damn Yankee!!!! But I can do that Since I know you and have ridden with you. And I must say you are one good hard working family man that I have a great deal of respect for...Cept for that yankee thang.   Me thinks somebody needs to step back a bit and get a feel for the road before going to fast........To much gravel in the curves ya know. Gitit??

Gitit! You're right, send my a list of the Board's pecking order and who the Alpha males are. That will go a long way to help me find my proper place here.

Thanks in advance

[Detn8er]

Come back Gman.....I was about to call you a Damn Yankee!!!! But I can do that Since I know you and have ridden with you. And I must say you are one good hard working family man that I have a great deal of respect for...Cept for that yankee thang.   Me thinks somebody needs to step back a bit and get a feel for the road before going to fast........To much gravel in the curves ya know. Gitit??

Gitit! You're right, send my a list of the Board's pecking order and who the Alpha males are. That will go a long way to help me find my proper place here.

Thanks in advance

Sorry I can't help you...And you obviously don't need any help. You have managed to firmly plant yourself in the peckerhead section all on your own.

[Dangle]

Thanks, Peckhead it its. 

[Bob E.]

Just curious...did anyone see Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko"??  It was about the health care industry horror stories in the US and how great the Canadian, British, and French systems are.  Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on it.

Full disclosure...I typically hate Michael Moore's stuff and thought his "Bowling for Columbine" was pretty far out there.  In fact, I got so disgusted that I turned it off not too far into the movie.  And I only watched part of "Sicko" so I don't know how it ended either.  But I was just curious if anyone that knows anything about the health care system (I don't, other than I know my insurance and copays/deductibles cost alot of money) had a comment on whether it made any good points, or was it total BS.  The problem I have is that, depending on where you look, when you try to research any of these topics, you will find that the information is usually distorted to one side or the other.  So you don't know who to believe.

[Chrisj CMA]

Just curious...did anyone see Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko"??  It was about the health care industry horror stories in the US and how great the Canadian, British, and French systems are.  Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on it.

Full disclosure...I typically hate Michael Moore's stuff and thought his "Bowling for Columbine" was pretty far out there.  In fact, I got so disgusted that I turned it off not too far into the movie.  And I only watched part of "Sicko" so I don't know how it ended either.  But I was just curious if anyone that knows anything about the health care system (I don't, other than I know my insurance and copays/deductibles cost alot of money) had a comment on whether it made any good points, or was it total BS.  The problem I have is that, depending on where you look, when you try to research any of these topics, you will find that the information is usually distorted to one side or the other.  So you don't know who to believe.

You ALWAYS know you NEVER believe Michael Moore!  The way I determine the truth is kinda like watching the wind.  You cant really see wind, only what it does, things it moves around.

IMHO we have the best Medical system in the world. (watching the wind)
--People come and are sent from all over the world to get treatment ONLY Available here
--Other citizens of countries that have systems like what Obama is building keep warning us NOT to
--With some exceptions it is usually our medical system that comes up with new stuff...like the first heart transplant.........etc

OK, we have serious problems, but I say its more with the greedy lawyers, insurance companies and the culture they have created of sue sue sue.....If we could bring some reality to the expense part of the medical system we might have a good start at the kind of reforms we really need

[Scanner]

Just curious...did anyone see Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko"??  It was about the health care industry horror stories in the US and how great the Canadian, British, and French systems are.  Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on it.

Full disclosure...I typically hate Michael Moore's stuff and thought his "Bowling for Columbine" was pretty far out there.  In fact, I got so disgusted that I turned it off not too far into the movie.  And I only watched part of "Sicko" so I don't know how it ended either.  But I was just curious if anyone that knows anything about the health care system (I don't, other than I know my insurance and copays/deductibles cost alot of money) had a comment on whether it made any good points, or was it total BS.  The problem I have is that, depending on where you look, when you try to research any of these topics, you will find that the information is usually distorted to one side or the other.  So you don't know who to believe.

FYI: From last month...."in an interview with Bill Moyers that aired tonight on PBS, Wendell Potter, former Head of Corporate Communications at CIGNA, admits that Michael Moore nailed it on the head in his movie, Sicko. It’s a 30 minute interview that comes close to a confessional of the health insurance industry’s enslavement to Wall Street, and I really really hope everybody in this country gets to see this. It’s the only thing you’ll ever need to show if anyone ever questions the public option or rambles on about the dangers of government bureaucrats.  WE’VE BEEN COLLECTIVELY GETTING JACKED."

http://www.progresspolitics.com/2009/07/16/former-cigna-executive-admits-that-moore-sicko-documentary-was-exactly-right-and-exposes-the-tactics-health-care-industry-to-discredit-it/

[Jeff K]

Just curious...did anyone see Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko"??  It was about the health care industry horror stories in the US and how great the Canadian, British, and French systems are.  Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on it.

Full disclosure...I typically hate Michael Moore's stuff and thought his "Bowling for Columbine" was pretty far out there.  In fact, I got so disgusted that I turned it off not too far into the movie.  And I only watched part of "Sicko" so I don't know how it ended either.  But I was just curious if anyone that knows anything about the health care system (I don't, other than I know my insurance and copays/deductibles cost alot of money) had a comment on whether it made any good points, or was it total BS.  The problem I have is that, depending on where you look, when you try to research any of these topics, you will find that the information is usually distorted to one side or the other.  So you don't know who to believe.

FYI: From last month...."in an interview with Bill Moyers that aired tonight on PBS, Wendell Potter, former Head of Corporate Communications at CIGNA, admits that Michael Moore nailed it on the head in his movie, Sicko. It’s a 30 minute interview that comes close to a confessional of the health insurance industry’s enslavement to Wall Street, and I really really hope everybody in this country gets to see this. It’s the only thing you’ll ever need to show if anyone ever questions the public option or rambles on about the dangers of government bureaucrats.  WE’VE BEEN COLLECTIVELY GETTING JACKED."

http://www.progresspolitics.com/2009/07/16/former-cigna-executive-admits-that-moore-sicko-documentary-was-exactly-right-and-exposes-the-tactics-health-care-industry-to-discredit-it/

Knowing that you wouldn't post any that wasn't slanted to the left...

"CNN glowingly featured an entire segment on Thursday’s American Morning about Wendell Potter, a former chief corporate spokesman for the health insurance company Cigna, and he attempted to discredit conservative ad campaigns against health “reform” proposals as “outright lies.” But reporter Jim Acosta left out his current ideological employment: since May, Potter has worked as a senior fellow on health care for the Center for Media and Democracy, the brainchild of John Stauber, the co-author of  “Banana Republicans: How the Right Wing is Turning America Into a One-Party State,” and a unpaid advisor to the anti-war group Iraq Veterans Against the War"

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2009/07/02/cnn-bashes-conservative-ads-industry-insider-omits-his-far-left-affil

[Scanner]

How is that interview slanted to the left? Did you watch it or read the transcript?  You think he's lying...why?  What's in it for him?

Is it is because it was with Bill Moyers?  He's another one that the right wing tried to discredit because they didn't like the message.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Moyers#Awards


In the whole debate on health care it is best to adhere to the adage "follow the money". 

Who makes money if things don't change?  The insurance Industry.

Who makes less money if there is a public insurance option. The insurance Industry

So who's spending millions to defeat reform?  The Insurance Industry.

[Jeff K]

How is that interview slanted to the left? Did you watch it or read the transcript?  You think he's lying...why?  What's in it for him?

Is it is because it was with Bill Moyers?  He's another one that the right wing tried to discredit because they didn't like the message.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Moyers#Awards


In the whole debate on health care it is best to adhere to the adage "follow the money". 

Who makes money if things don't change?  The insurance Industry.

Who makes less money if there is a public insurance option. The insurance Industry

So who's spending millions to defeat reform?  The Insurance Industry.

Wendell Potter is slanted left, I don't have any interest in hearing what he has to say.

As far as following the money...
I'm more concerned with loosing my decent health care coverage than who is making money. Someone IS going to make money.

[Scanner]

lol...OK.  Can't argue with that display of logic.

[2tonevalk]

Just curious...did anyone see Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko"??  It was about the health care industry horror stories in the US and how great the Canadian, British, and French systems are.  Just wondering if anyone had an opinion on it.

Full disclosure...I typically hate Michael Moore's stuff and thought his "Bowling for Columbine" was pretty far out there.  In fact, I got so disgusted that I turned it off not too far into the movie.  And I only watched part of "Sicko" so I don't know how it ended either.  But I was just curious if anyone that knows anything about the health care system (I don't, other than I know my insurance and copays/deductibles cost alot of money) had a comment on whether it made any good points, or was it total BS.  The problem I have is that, depending on where you look, when you try to research any of these topics, you will find that the information is usually distorted to one side or the other.  So you don't know who to believe.

Well lets see now.......hmmmmmmm....  Hey Scanner, How many times a week/month/year do you have to leave the US and cross over into Canada for your health care because we have such a crappy healthcare delivery system?????  They have such a much better system than here?????  Oh yeah, lots of cancer patients go to Canada from the US for treatment as they cant get healthcare here in the US.  Yes Yes......that's it.
But of course, the Mexican illegals are just here to make enough money so they can buy plane tickets to France and England.  Yes Yes.  
But oh yes......and all the foreign doctors I work with are here to help us with out healthcare because we do such a crappy job of taking care of patients.
And lets not forget all the sheiks and oil barons from the Middle East who come here to get their total hips/knees, etc done.

Yes yes.  We have such a horrid healthcare system.  
Yes of course Michael Moore NAILED it.  Yes yes.

Of course Michael didnt mention that at 56 yrs of age, if you dont have a kidney transplant, the British health system stops your dialysis and either you and your family pay privately or you die.  Yes yes the Brits have it so good.

I could go on and on with stuff that Michael doesnt tell you in his "mock-umentarys".  Michael Moore is a fat bloated moron with an Al Gore sized ego.
Just my opinion.

[Scanner]

I see you've read their playbook and know it by heart. Good for you 2Tone!

Don't let those troublesome facts dissuade you: http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx

[fiddle mike]

When  Daughter was in Jr.High, my best friend was bugging her and asked "What did you learn in school, today?"
She looked him in the eye and said, "Snitches get stitches"