130 HP F6B ???

[jimmytee]

O.K., now I got to test ride a Valkyrie yesterday. I liked it a lot, but would want different bars or risers and there is the windshield and saddle bags I'd want. So I went to another dealer today and they had F6Bs. Now here is the clicker. The salesman ( they add a lot of accessories to their bikes) claimed that they had put together a performance kit which involved the intakes, different exhaust and a programmable tuner. He didn't specify , but made the claim that they didn't want to let this get out to other dealers. He said they had come up with this on the request of another customer, had worked it out on a Dyno. And now they figured they could just offer what they came up with to other customers. I was salivating at the thought. I said you're blowing smoke up my ass??? He claimed 130 hp at the rear wheel and 118 ft lbs of torque from 18-1900 on up the rpm scale. He claimed real flat torque curve. He said let me get a copy of your license and just initial a waiver form and I could see for myself. So I was jumping inside. He started it up and it sounded nice.  He works it through the showroom and while I'm waiting for him to emerge from out back, I call my wife and tell her. She's on board with me getting a new bike. After a little bit he comes back and says, I hate to be "that guy" , but evidently it isn't finished. It has the intake and exhaust work done, but the computer that needed to change the mapping hasn't been installed yet. He said he'd make sure it would be ready for me tomorrow. I told him I would be on call tomorrow and wouldn't be able to make it back. He promises to have it ready for me when I can go back.

So what do you guys think??  There is a premium to be paid for this power, of course.

[Paxton]

Can't hide the money! 

[jimmytee]

Can't hide the money! 

I've never had a new bike and I only have my Valkyrie now.I won't be selling my Valkyrie. Too much love and memories there. So how many bikes do you have???

He said the premium,after he added it up, was $2200. I got to admit if the hype is true  . He said he would find a copy of the original Dyno run.

[CajunRider]

He said he would find a copy of the original Dyno run.

PLEASE post that when/if you get a copy of it!!!!

[F6Dave]

He said he would find a copy of the original Dyno run.

PLEASE post that when/if you get a copy of it!!!!

And post a ride report as well!

[Bagger]

The ECU can be reprogramed for $250 and give great results in increased power / torque.

Check out the tech board at GL1800riders.com.  Look for ECU reprogram, and such.  Gohl (?) motors does this all the time.

I had my Kawa C16 ECU done.  Went to nearly 165 hp on the dyno.  You don't need to spend $2K+.

And, my opinion is ... my '14 Valk is pretty quick as it sits.  

[Paxton]

"... So how many bikes do you have???"
=======================
jimmyTee;
You got me good on this one!  

[jimmytee]

The ECU can be reprogramed for $250 and give great results in increased power / torque.

Check out the tech board at GL1800riders.com.  Look for ECU reprogram, and such.  Gohl (?) motors does this all the time.

I had my Kawa C16 ECU done.  Went to nearly 165 hp on the dyno.  You don't need to spend $2K+.

And, my opinion is ... my '14 Valk is pretty quick as it sits.  

I've seen those, and have looked up a couple of re-mappers. I didn't ask about what components they were using, but he did describe programming it . Plus the $2200 is not just for the remapping, it's for a custom exhaust and intake work. I believe he mentioned removing the catalytic converters as part of the process. He also mentioned there was some welding involved in the exhaust work. So, there is a bit more than just plugging up a box. The numbers he was talking about are a big jump from stock. I think stock is like 105-107 hp at the rear wheel. He's claiming over 130 hp at the rear wheel. I have not seen the sheet on the Dyno yet. He said he'd find a copy. They only Dyno'ed  the first one they did for a customer's request when they came up with the combination. He said they want to do the same for the new Valkyrie as soon as there are some aftermarket exhaust choices for it.

Here is one pic  of the bike I almost test rode.



Needless to say, I was disappointed after he had talked it up. :'( He said they didn't want me to ride it until they had it done. He claimed that without the electronics it would fall on it's face from the intake and exhaust work.

[Dave Ritsema]

That’s a believable number. With a re-map, torque loops and some custom welding to remove the CAT and better tuned exhaust all that will run you at least two grand. I see they are also blacked out pipes which I think look pretty cool on the F6B’s as well.

Judging by its color the bike is a 2014 standard model. Just know up front that means no self-cancelling turn signals, center stand, heated grips or passenger backrest. Some of the latter can be added on after the fact. I plan on doing the exhaust and map job also, although at this point I think that will be next year. Will be interested to hear your impressions but even at the stock tune I think the F6B is a great ride.

[jimmytee]

there are a few known tricks (tire pressure, what gear and rpm WOT is applied, etc. also the wear on the dyno affects) a dyno operator can do to boost the #s, esp since the stealer wants to sell product/services at $2k.

So I sat on this bike when first getting there, and then I was describing to the guy about my experience with test riding the new Valk the day before. That's when he informed me that this bike is not stock and blow that Valk away. He was really enthusiastic about me riding it to see for myself. so was I,   In his words, he questioned whether the Dyno numbers were actually conservative, because he swears it has more power than the numbers even say. He mentioned it will easily lift the front wheel and he was cautioning me about being careful in the corners, because it will break the rear end loose really easily if you get on it. Definitely disappointed it wasn't done. The yellow one would not be my choice. He said they could do it to any of them. Of course they'd do it to a Wing if desired as well.

[Dave Ritsema]

My F6B is still bone stock from a powertrain aspect and it will  pull the front wheel easily in first and 1-2 gear shifts if thats what your looking for. My butt dyno told me it was faster than my Interstate with viking pipes and jets and I confirmed that with a Valkyrie riding buddy last night. We started from a stop sign out in the country and I was never less than 4 or 5 bike lengths ahead of him and started really walking away over about 75. The handling in the corners isn't even a fair comparison.

My point here is not to bash a classic Valkyrie in any way, only to illustrate that you may be perfectly happy with a stock F6B.

[jimmytee]

My F6B is still bone stock from a powertrain aspect and it will  pull the front wheel easily in first and 1-2 gear shifts if thats what your looking for. My butt dyno told me it was faster than my Interstate with viking pipes and jets and I confirmed that with a Valkyrie riding buddy last night. We started from a stop sign out in the country and I was never less than 4 or 5 bike lengths ahead of him and started really walking away over about 75. The handling in the corners isn't even a fair comparison.

My point here is not to bash a classic Valkyrie in any way, only to illustrate that you may be perfectly happy with a stock F6B.

Yeah right I've been contemplating a supercharged bike, what do you think?
I can do wheelies on my Valk, he just described it as much more power. I just got off the phone with the guy and I may be going up there to ride it tomorrow. He said their finishing it up right now. I'm going to ride over to a Victory dealer today, just to see about taking a ride on a Cross Country. I like how they look and feel sitting on them, but I really like that flat six motor. I just don't think I could not give it a fair shake to see.

[jimmytee]

 

I rode it today. 

Big grin from ear to ear. It's fast I'll tell you that. I would've liked to have ridden a stock one right there, but the other stock one they had just sold. Damn, no kidding. The guy was there paying for it as I was looking at the one I rode. The guy that bought the unaltered F6B had also just test rode the one I rode. He said it was definitely faster than the stock one he was buying. All I know is what I felt in the seat of my pants and of course the Dyno numbers which say it has 25 more horses to play with. I can tell you it wanted to lift the front wheel up and did a couple of times.  I want one done up like that. We just got to come together on a price. I've got some numbers ,closer to home,for an unadulterated F6B. I have to see if that was out the door numbers or not. This guy , today,quoted me pricing with tax and everything included.

[Bagger]

F6Bs are not selling well.  That's why there are "incentives" from Honda.

I'd be surprised if you can't get $2K of sticker from the dealer on a sale, and then the $1000 accessory incentive ... that would pay for the "upgrade" you are speaking about.

That said ... $2500 for a 25 pony express is more than I would pay. 

[jimmytee]

F6Bs are not selling well.  That's why there are "incentives" from Honda.

I'd be surprised if you can't get $2K of sticker from the dealer on a sale, and then the $1000 accessory incentive ... that would pay for the "upgrade" you are speaking about.

That said ... $2500 for a 25 pony express is more than I would pay. 

Well, we'll see, that sales guy I was dealing with thinks he's slick. I don't know why he wants to waste my time, I guess that's his job. He gave me some numbers, but he's gonna have move on them for me to buy from them. He told me to call before buying somewhere else. I already believe I can get his pricing smoked. Why he wants to waste my time. Kinda pisses me off.

[F6Dave]

Did you get a copy of the dyno results?

[jimmytee]

Did you get a copy of the dyno results?

No , and that's a another thing. He said they only dynoed the first one they did for a customer. He said he thought they still had a copy of it, but he couldn't find one. I'm not sure how hard he tried. He seemed really busy an very ADHD. He said , on the subject, they were probably gonna go run the yellow one I rode on the Dyno. I said, that's good, because I really want the paper in front of me as proof. That being said, I was really impressed by riding it, and the guy that was buying the unaltered black one, said he rode it and it was definitely faster than the one he was buying. But yeah, I wanna see the paper. It would be a contingency on my purchase. However, unless we come to terms on a price, I'll be buying elsewhere and have to figure out how to get the same work done myself or somewhere else. Eh, maybe buy it somewhere else and take that one to their service department for the work.

[Ed Norton]

Find out what octane gas it it needs 

[F6Dave]

Something about this dealership gives me an uncomfortable feeling.  Maybe it's just the salesman.

[jimmytee]

Something about this dealership gives me an uncomfortable feeling.  Maybe it's just the salesman.

It's the salseman. I have decided that even if I were to go back and buy from there, I'm going to deal with another guy there. The dealer is their southern branch of their Indpls store. Their Indpls store is the oldest Honda dealer in the country. I think their Dealer number is like #3. I've dealt with them since the eighties. Have had good feeling about them, but this guy is whack. It is Dreyer Honda. I went into their Indpls store and rode the Valkyrie on Wed, but they didn't have a F6B there. So on the way home Thurs, I stopped into their Dreyer south store in Whiteland,IN. My wife and I rode up there yesterday, from E-town, KY to test ride this F6B that wasn't ready on Thursday. We sat down to get some numbers, and I knew there were still 2013 F6Bs available. I figured why not get a new 2013 at a discount, plus I want the red and black.Will go nicely next to my red and white Valk right? He started off with a price that was MSRP. I mean really??? He claimed his out the door pricing would be better than what I'd find somewhere else, but ,made sure to insist that I call him before buying somewhere else. He's smoking something. I already have a quote from down the steet for a new 2013 at $15,999. I believe that was for a standard. I just need to see what the other costs would tally up to. There is also a Deluxe red and black not far from me at another dealer,demo I think, with 10 miles on it for $15,999. I'm calling about that one tomorrow.

Find out what octane gas it it needs 

Well I should ask, but it should run on the same gas you use for stock. No compression changes associated with turbos or superchargers.

[Skinhead]

How does it affect the Honda warranty?  Will that or any other Honda dealer honor the factory warranty after the mods?  

It also sounds to me like he's pulling dyno results out of his ass.  If they planned to sell more of these "KITS" you can bet they would have the dyno results framed and hanging on the wall.

I could be wrong though....

[jimmytee]

How does it affect the Honda warranty?  Will that or any other Honda dealer honor the factory warranty after the mods?  

It also sounds to me like he's pulling dyno results out of his ass.  If they planned to sell more of these "KITS" you can bet they would have the dyno results framed and hanging on the wall.

I could be wrong though....

After riding it, I can definitely say it's got some power. I wanna see the sheet. They're really not pushing it . It just happened they did it to another one and he pointed it out when I first came in there talking about my experience test riding the new Valk. Like I said, they just had come up with this initially because of another customer who had requested it. I got some information from the service guys. I think they're using this http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/honda/gold-wing-f6b-13-14 to remap, but they are also dropping the cat and changing the exhaust and doing something on the intake side of things to get supposedly 130 HP at the wheel . All I can say is that it certainly was fast. But I wanna see the sheet.

[Warlock]

How does it affect the Honda warranty?  Will that or any other Honda dealer honor the factory warranty after the mods?  

It also sounds to me like he's pulling dyno results out of his ass.  If they planned to sell more of these "KITS" you can bet they would have the dyno results framed and hanging on the wall.

I could be wrong though....

After riding it, I can definitely say it's got some power. I wanna see the sheet. They're really not pushing it . It just happened they did it to another one and he pointed it out when I first came in there talking about my experience test riding the new Valk. Like I said, they just had come up with this initially because of another customer who had requested it. I got some information from the service guys. I think they're using this http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/honda/gold-wing-f6b-13-14 to remap, but they are also dropping the cat and changing the exhaust and doing something on the intake side of things to get supposedly 130 HP at the wheel . All I can say is that it certainly was fast. But I wanna see the sheet.

I can see 130 at the crank, but not rear wheel. The most you will see gain at most is 5 to 7 hp, which is a good boost. There is one company doing 3 different OEM mods on the ecm and they to me has the best program. His program changes to fuel map, timing and also rev limits. Anytime you can spend less than 400 bucks and gain 3 to 4 hp is money well spent. Thinking about having my Goldwing re-flashed.
David

[jimmytee]

How does it affect the Honda warranty?  Will that or any other Honda dealer honor the factory warranty after the mods?  

It also sounds to me like he's pulling dyno results out of his ass.  If they planned to sell more of these "KITS" you can bet they would have the dyno results framed and hanging on the wall.

I could be wrong though....

After riding it, I can definitely say it's got some power. I wanna see the sheet. They're really not pushing it . It just happened they did it to another one and he pointed it out when I first came in there talking about my experience test riding the new Valk. Like I said, they just had come up with this initially because of another customer who had requested it. I got some information from the service guys. I think they're using this http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/honda/gold-wing-f6b-13-14 to remap, but they are also dropping the cat and changing the exhaust and doing something on the intake side of things to get supposedly 130 HP at the wheel . All I can say is that it certainly was fast. But I wanna see the sheet.

I can see 130 at the crank, but not rear wheel. The most you will see gain at most is 5 to 7 hp, which is a good boost. There is one company doing 3 different OEM mods on the ecm and they to me has the best program. His program changes to fuel map, timing and also rev limits. Anytime you can spend less than 400 bucks and gain 3 to 4 hp is money well spent. Thinking about having my Goldwing re-flashed.
David

I guess you really didn't read the post. The increase,please read above, is not from just the remapping, but from the exhaust and intake work as well.
The cost for this work ,parts ,exhaust etc is more like $2200. 130 at the rear wheel with a torque of 118 from down as low as 18-1900 rpm. All I can tell you is it is fast. He didn't have the dyno sheet available, but they were going to go ahead and dyno the one I rode. I know I'm repeating myself, have already explained all this above in more detail.

[Warlock]

How does it affect the Honda warranty?  Will that or any other Honda dealer honor the factory warranty after the mods?  

It also sounds to me like he's pulling dyno results out of his ass.  If they planned to sell more of these "KITS" you can bet they would have the dyno results framed and hanging on the wall.

I could be wrong though....

After riding it, I can definitely say it's got some power. I wanna see the sheet. They're really not pushing it . It just happened they did it to another one and he pointed it out when I first came in there talking about my experience test riding the new Valk. Like I said, they just had come up with this initially because of another customer who had requested it. I got some information from the service guys. I think they're using this http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/honda/gold-wing-f6b-13-14 to remap, but they are also dropping the cat and changing the exhaust and doing something on the intake side of things to get supposedly 130 HP at the wheel . All I can say is that it certainly was fast. But I wanna see the sheet.

I can see 130 at the crank, but not rear wheel. The most you will see gain at most is 5 to 7 hp, which is a good boost. There is one company doing 3 different OEM mods on the ecm and they to me has the best program. His program changes to fuel map, timing and also rev limits. Anytime you can spend less than 400 bucks and gain 3 to 4 hp is money well spent. Thinking about having my Goldwing re-flashed.
David

I guess you really didn't read the post. The increase,please read above, is not from just the remapping, but from the exhaust and intake work as well.
The cost for this work ,parts ,exhaust etc is more like $2200. 130 at the rear wheel with a torque of 118 from down as low as 18-1900 rpm. All I can tell you is it is fast. He didn't have the dyno sheet available, but they were going to go ahead and dyno the one I rode. I know I'm repeating myself, have already explained all this above in more detail.

I had read your post. In order to get that much hp gain it would have to have a turbo. The F6B and Goldwing share the same engine and mapping. Only difference is the F6B is lighter than the goldwing. Most of them are running around 107 hp at the back wheel. The claimed 120 hp on these bikes are at the crank. I have not seen anything on intakes up grades offered, other than K&N. With mapping, exhaust, and tork loops maybe 7 to 8 hp which would give you close to 130 hp at the crank. Just not going to see a 24 hp gain with just those mods. Not trying to shoot down your post, but dealer using wrong info. I will say with those mods it will run like a son of a gun.
David

[imrubicon]

I would have to say bull ca ca also as they have been trying to boost the GL1800 for awhile and just have not had good enough results to prove that .

[jimmytee]

I woul dhave to say bull ca ca also as they have been trying to boost the GL1800 for awhile and just have not had goo denough results to prove that

To each their own..

[imrubicon]

Then the next step would be to prove it on a Dyno?
I am far from all knowing but slept in a Holiday Inn Express once .
The GL1800 Board would be all over any kind of real boost to a GL1800 motor and there would be topics on anything that worked.
Only thing I have heard is the Turbo someone added to the motor.
Its just that $2000 is a lot of breakfasts and if it really can boost with Dyno proof I would do it in a heartbeat.
The new Valk is nice but it would be nice to have a few extra poines pushing it when you wanted to play.

[F6Dave]

At first I thought it should be easy to get more power out of the Wing's 1832 cc motor.  Heck, Honda's Civic is rated at 143 HP, and it's only a 1798 cc 4!  It does have 4 valve heads, though, and I assume that number is measured at the crankshaft.

But after reading a lot of Goldwing message boards, apparently it's not easy at all.  I have to think it would take a lot of work to get to 130 HP.  For comparison, the BMW K1600 only dynos in the low 120 HP range, even though it is about 1650 ccs, revs much higher, and has 24 valves.

[indybobm]

jimmytee, what did the people at Dreyer on West Washington say about the mods that Whiteland Dreyer is doing? Did they approve? Are they doing the same thing?
I have bought many bikes from Dreyer, salesmen can make a big difference in the experience.
What is the salesmen's name that you were talking to? Whose dyno were they using?

[Tropic traveler]

Just as an overall view of things horsepower wise, my hotrodder gearhead sense tells me certain things. The claimed increases seem fairly realistic if maybe just a bit pie in the sky high end of the possibilities. The Honda F6 engine is not stressed very much in stock form hence the engine's legendary longevity & reliability. Even though it is a somewhat dated two valve engine there is a lot of untapped potential with just some tried & true performance mods. An ECU reprogram & a better flowing exhaust could in my estimation easily add 8-10 HP. After that any serious power gains would start costing lots of buckaroonies & give diminishing returns on your investments.
As with most things, the devil is in the details & the dyno {or dragstrip} would reveal all. 

[MP]

I would have thought with the work done it would put out more.  The SC 1997 I had, put out 140hp at the rear wheel. I thought another 300 cc and mapping, exhaust, etc, would get closer than that.  I was wrong again.

MP

[jimmytee]

jimmytee, what did the people at Dreyer on West Washington say about the mods that Whiteland Dreyer is doing? Did they approve? Are they doing the same thing?
I have bought many bikes from Dreyer, salesmen can make a big difference in the experience.
What is the salesmen's name that you were talking to? Whose dyno were they using?

The salesman at Whitestown was James. I didn't discuss my experience with West Washington. I was working in Indy that week, when I test rode the new Valk there. They didn't have a F6B there, so on my way home to E-town,KY, I stopped at the Dreyer South spot, and the rest you know.

James  was alright, just got a feeling from him I didn't care for. I felt he was BS ing me on pricing, and who knows what else. He said they had dyno run the first one and converation with a couple of others,away from James, which was easy to do he was constantly distracted (ADHD), seemed to legitimize what he was saying. He couldn't produce the dyno sheet though. Said they had decided to run the Yellow one , I test rode on a Dyno to check. I told him that I would have to see that to prove worthwhile expenditure.
Bottom line, I was able to beat his pricing with a phone call, no BS, and saved thousands of $ in the process. Maybe he would have matched or beaten, I dunno. It was clear it wouldn't be without the old haggle and BS crap long known in the car sales experience. Another benefit, is I bought from a guy not two miles from my house, who started a new Honda powersports dealership here in E-town. He was great to deal with. He didn't have a F6B in stock,but got me one the nest day ,brand new from another dealer in Clarksville,IN The guy here,Steve, laid it right out and told me he was making 3-400 on the sale. I got the new 2013 for $15651. But then, when I was ordering the $1000 accessories from Honda,as part of the promotion, my tally went over by $70. He squashed that too. Can't recommend him enough. If you're in the market anywhere,near here, It is Dan Powers Honda,ask for Steve. He has a nice black 14 Valkyrie,that tempted me.

[Rox]

130hp from an F6B or any late GL model isn't that hard. An exhaust, torq loops, air box unrestricted and a proper map will do it.  This motor was neutered to pass emissions.  Just letting this thing breathe with a fuel mix and it's there. Guys have been doing it to the Valkyries and there is ZERO difference between the two engine wise.

[Robert]

130hp from an F6B or any late GL model isn't that hard. An exhaust, torq loops, air box unrestricted and a proper map will do it.  This motor was neutered to pass emissions.  Just letting this thing breathe with a fuel mix and it's there. Guys have been doing it to the Valkyries and there is ZERO difference between the two engine wise.

Engine wise yes fuel system wise NO, the fuel system and computer on the Valk is different than the F6B or the Wing. Now if thats good or bad I dont know but I can tell you this that the maps on the Valk and programing on the Valk is different as per Ghul motors trying to reprogram the computer. As for the HP I agree that the power should be easily achievable, but why?