can of worms

[Wewaman]

Ok it's time for a new front tire , I currently have a General Altimax on the rear and a Avon on the front.
 I am considering going double darkside and was looking at the Dunlop D404 130/90-17 and mounting it in the correct rotation. 
Thoughts or concerns please.

Thanks ,
Wewa

[old2soon]

Had that up front already and while it lasted it was a good choice. It cupped out before it wore out-43-45 P S I. Good in the rain-dry-and twistys. DID NOT get near the mileage others seem to get with this tire. And it was run in the proper direction-NOT reversed. I'm on my second Shinko S E-890 and liking it a lot. When ron ayers had one of his sales I got the Shinko for less than $100.00. RIDE SAFE.

[PhredValk]

I installed my second D404 rear up front last spring, normal rotation, ride-on for balance. I got 24380 miles on the first one. I like it in the rain and it's quieter than the E3 she came with when I got her. No shimmies or wobbles at 40-42#.
Freed.

[Challenger]

I'm running a Metz ME 880 Mararthon 150/80/17 "Bias ply" up front with an Altimax on the rear. Don't know how long it will last, but after 2500 miles I can tell you it is the best sticking & handling tire I've ever had on the front of my I/S. Won't be going back to radial MC tire!

[Skinhead]

My last metz, while an excellent tire wore put in 7000 miles.  I installed a D404, correct rotation, 41 psi, and it is noisy.  I can also feel some high frequency vibration at times, other than that no complaints.  Haven't had it in the rain yet.

[Highbinder]

About 3000 miles ago I installed a 150/70R-17 (69V) Bridgestone Battle Wing BW502 Rear Motorcycle Tire up front, I reversed the tread because this way it matched the tread design on the stock tires matching up with the rear tire....it almost doubles the contact patch from the stock tire and seemed to lay over in the curves alot quicker then stock, plus a lot more rubber on the tire, it does throw the speedo off a little due to being slightly smaller in diameter...but it really sticks in the curves now and I don't feel any major difference in handling...I'm hoping to double the mileage  using this tire...

[IamGCW]

I just did almost 11K to Alaska and back with the double darkside (GYTT and 404 backwards).  Snow, rain, heat, mud (deep and 10% down grade), gravel (deep) and so on. Ran 38 in both.  Tires are still fine.  Handled great, no noise.  Previous tire was a Metz 880.  I will keep this tire combination or change the rear to a Taxi Tire.  But the front works great. 

Gil

[GOOSE]

BRIDGESTONE BATTLAX BT-45 130/90-17 REAR TIRE ON FRONT RUNNING BACKWARDS WITH 41 PSI.  WEARING GREAT.

[MP]

Had that up front already and while it lasted it was a good choice. It cupped out before it wore out-43-45 P S I. Good in the rain-dry-and twistys. DID NOT get near the mileage others seem to get with this tire. And it was run in the proper direction-NOT reversed. I'm on my second Shinko S E-890 and liking it a lot. When ron ayers had one of his sales I got the Shinko for less than $100.00. RIDE SAFE.

As old2soon had, I have one on mine, with Altimax on rear. BEST handling ever!  Love it.  However, it is cupping too. Rotation is correct, not reversed.  I ran at 42#.

Since it is a bias, I am not so sure that 42# is correct.  Maybe one should go back and try the 36# the Valkyrie originally wanted?

I am going to put another one on, and try 36#.  I just love the handling with the Altimax on there.  Best combo I have had.

MP

[Wewaman]

  Thanks so very much for all the replies. I have started a new job and have had to move to Crystal River Fl.
I hope to have my Wife drive down here this weekend and I will ride back home with her and ride my Mistress back to Crystal River.  Will be looking for a shop around here to do the install since all my tools and such are back at home.

If anyone knows of a shop around this aera please let me know.

Thanks,
  Tony

[vanagon40]

Since you opened the can of worms, I will give my opinion.  I question that mounting a rear tire on the front according to the directional arrow is the “correct” rotation.  I have read many posts on this issue, and I have NEVER heard a legitimate argument made for mounting a rear tire on the front in the same direction as if mounted on the rear.  I have read many legitimate arguments for mounting the tire in the reverse direction.

That said, I do not consider the anecdotal argument that someone mounted the rear tire according to the arrow and was happy with the results.  I expect that people would not notice the difference if the directional tires were mounted backwards on their cars.

Until someone provides a legitimate argument that a rear tire mounted as a front tire should be mounted in the same direction as when mounted on the rear, I will continue to believe that the “correct” rotation would be against the directional arrow.

Almost universally, when looking at a front motorcycle tire (from the front of the motorcycle), the “V” in the tire tread (not the directional arrow) has the point upward.

[indybobm]

Until someone provides a legitimate argument that a rear tire mounted as a front tire should be mounted in the same direction as when mounted on the rear, I will continue to believe that the “correct” rotation would be against the directional arrow.

Almost universally, when looking at a front motorcycle tire (from the front of the motorcycle), the “V” in the tire tread (not the directional arrow) has the point upward.

I am not arguing this at all, just confused about why this is necessary on a motorcycle and not necessary on a car?

[Willow]

Until someone provides a legitimate argument that a rear tire mounted as a front tire should be mounted in the same direction as when mounted on the rear, I will continue to believe that the “correct” rotation would be against the directional arrow.

A distributor writing on behalf of Avon Tyres tends to agree with you.  If you read his comments in total, though, he seems to contradict himself.

He describes two reasons for the directional arrows.  One is to accommodate the ability of the tread to disperse water (dust and dirt).  A second he lists is to manage the pressure on the tread splice when the bike is accelerated (for the rear) or braked (for the front).  At one point he goes so far as to state the the one main reason for the directional arrow is to accommodate the tread's ability to disperse water.

Based upon his information, when one mounts a rear tire on the front whichever direction he mounts it will either defeat the tread dispersion ability or the management of the pressure on the tread splice.  I guess the user will just have to decide which one is more important to him.  

[vanagon40]

Gryphon Rider provided this explanation last year:

With directional tread patterns and rain, if the tire's contact patch is not moving faster or slower than the road surface (i.e. the tire is not sliding due to acceleration or braking forces), the direction of the "V" has no bearing on how well it evacuates water.  Water is simply squished out from under the tread blocks and into the nearest groove with capacity to take it.  When the back tire is slipping due to acceleration, the "V" should point towards the back of the bike at the road surface.  It acts the same as a tractor tire slipping in mud, directing the fluid towards either side of the tire, rather than scooping it towards the centre of the tire.  When the front tire is slipping due to braking forces, the "V" should point towards the front of the bike at the road surface.  It acts like a "V"-shaped snow plow, pushing the fluid towards the sides, rather than scooping it towards the middle.

See entire post HERE.

That made sense to me.  In the photo collage below, the tire in the center is a front tire as designed by Dunlop.  Knowing that the center tire is correct, it puzzles me how the tire on the left must be wrong while the tire on the right is correct.

Also, if the tire on the right is correct and maximizes water dispersion, it presents a compelling argument for mounting a front tire on the front in the reverse direction.

[vanagon40]

Until someone provides a legitimate argument that a rear tire mounted as a front tire should be mounted in the same direction as when mounted on the rear, I will continue to believe that the “correct” rotation would be against the directional arrow.

A distributor writing on behalf of Avon Tyres tends to agree with you.  If you read his comments in total, though, he seems to contradict himself.

He describes two reasons for the directional arrows.  One is to accommodate the ability of the tread to disperse water (dust and dirt).  A second he lists is to manage the pressure on the tread splice when the bike is accelerated (for the rear) or braked (for the front).  At one point he goes so far as to state the the one main reason for the directional arrow is to accommodate the tread's ability to disperse water.

Based upon his information, when one mounts a rear tire on the front whichever direction he mounts it will either defeat the tread dispersion ability or the management of the pressure on the tread splice.  I guess the user will just have to decide which one is more important to him. 

I fail to draw the same conclusion you do.  When mounted as a rear tire, the directional arrow places the tread in the best position to disperse water on the rear or drive tire.  I do not make the assumption that the best pattern for water dispersion on a front tire is the same as a rear tire.

[Willow]

I fail to draw the same conclusion you do.  When mounted as a rear tire, the directional arrow places the tread in the best position to disperse water on the rear or drive tire.  I do not make the assumption that the best pattern for water dispersion on a front tire is the same as a rear tire.

It's an assumption?  Do the front and rear tire encounter water or dirt from different directions?   

BTW, it's not really worth an argument.  Truthfully any use of the rear tire on the front will involve compromises to its designed intent offset by hopefully some advantages over a tire designed for use on the front.   

[IamGCW]

If anyone knows of a shop around this aera please let me know.

Thanks,
  Tony

Tony
Grumpy (Bill) does a lot of work on the Valkyries.  He is near I-75 and I-4 in Tampa.  We often ride the roads around Brooksville.  You can usually reach him in the Florida section.

Welcome to the area.

Gil

[Wewaman]

Thanks Gil I will look him up.   
My tire should be in this coming week and I should be going back next weekend to get the Valk.  My wife is going to bring the tire when she travels down next Friday.
Thanks for the GREAT feedback on this issue,  pictures explain a lot for someone like me 

Wewa

[Hoser]

Had that up front already and while it lasted it was a good choice. It cupped out before it wore out-43-45 P S I. Good in the rain-dry-and twistys. DID NOT get near the mileage others seem to get with this tire. And it was run in the proper direction-NOT reversed. I'm on my second Shinko S E-890 and liking it a lot. When ron ayers had one of his sales I got the Shinko for less than $100.00. RIDE SAFE.

The dunlop 404 is a bias tire, it lasts longer with lower air pressure, I suggest you use the recommended pressure, about 10 psi less than the 43-45, if you ever use it again.  My opinion only, but I have been using bias tires for a couple years now.  Hoser