Checking Engine Oil .... ??

[Bagger]

Couple days ago, I decided to change out the oil in my 2001 Wing.  I've done this since new.  But, always have to check the manual to see how much, and how to check the oil level, yada, yada.

I can't believe that checking the oil level is such a PITA procedure, and that details are totally unknown. 

This has not changed on the new Valkyrie either.  Bummer, man !

According to my miniscule Valkyrie manual, this is how it's done:

Checking the Engine Oil
1-If the engine is cold, idle the engine for 3-5 minutes.
2-Turn the ignition switch off, stop the engine and wait 2-3 minutes.
3-Remove the oil fill cap/dipstick and wipe it clean.
4-Place your motorcycle in an upright position on a firm, level surface.
5-Insert the oil fill cap/dipstick until it seats, but don't screw it in. 
   Check that the oil level is between the upper and lower level     
   marks in the oil fill cap/dipstick.
6-Securely install the oil fill cap/dipstick.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?!

6 steps to check the engine oil level.  And, no center stand to make it 'level'.  I know, I know ... I can hoist the bike up with a couple 2x4s or some such to make it level without tossing it over.  But, put the dipstick back in without screwing it back in ... ??  We're talking about 1/8 inch deal here. 

Honda ... since 2001 ... has not said what the difference between the 2 levels are on the dipstick.  Why ??  And, what about oil just on the stick, but not up to the lower level?

Sooooo .... I had the Wing on the center stand, did the drain of oil, removed and replaced the filter and tossed in about 4 quarts of oil.  Ran the bike for 4 minutes.  Poured the old oil into a receptacle and returned 3 minutes later to check the level.

Nothing showed on the dipstick which was not screwed in.  HUH !?

I did a search on the Wing forum and found everything possible about how to check the oil level from guessing, to draining it all out and measuring it quart by quart then replacing it.  And, some nuttier than this.

Here's the deal .... this is a sophisticated motorbike with an engine that's been 'round for nearly 15 years.  Why can't you just stick the dipstick in on the side stand and check the oil level?  What's with all the "ritual" crap to do this and still not know how low the level is?

Honda could easily have a longer, or shorter, or what ever ... dipstick.  So, we can easily check the oil level.  And, at least in the manual ... if not on the dipstick ... tell us what the difference between the 2 marks on the dipstick are.  This is such BS.

Now ... typically, when I change the oil / filter, I just add a gallon of oil and forget it.  But, this time, I had a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 and had to 'guess'.  $@&*$!!   

Any tho'ts?

[six2go #152]

I check the oil while sitting on the bike. After wiping the dipstick clean and "seating it", just lift the bike off the side stand to the straight up position for a moment, then lean it back on the side stand and remove the dipstick to see what the level was when the bike was upright. Pretty simple. Also, I keep a 1 quart measuring cup with my oil change stuff for measuring the correct amount.

[Bagger]

I check the oil while sitting on the bike. After wiping the dipstick clean and "seating it", just lift the bike off the side stand to the straight up position for a moment, then lean it back on the side stand and remove the dipstick to see what the level was when the bike was upright. Pretty simple. Also, I keep a 1 quart measuring cup with my oil change stuff for measuring the correct amount.

I understand what you wrote, six ... but, that does not answer my questions, or what is needed to make 'checking the oil level' systematic and simple, m'friend.

[six2go #152]

"I can't believe that checking the oil level is such a PITA procedure, and that details are totally unknown."

I guess this is the part of your post I was addressing. Kinda figured that by simplifying the procedure, the rest would fall into place.

[F6Dave]

One of these days I'm gonna check the oil when cold, then warm the bike up and check it again when hot to see what difference the temp makes.  I've been planning to do that for years.  Maybe when I retire.

[8Track]

The area between the two marks is the "safe" oil level on the dipstick. Outside that area and you have either too little or too much oil in the crankcase.

Having the bike upright is no big deal. Just sit on it and take the oil reading whilst holding the bike upright with your legs.

Making sure the engine is warm and settled is so that cold oil with its higher viscosity isn't hung up in the upper areas of the engine. This provides a truer reading.

It ain't rocket science.

[Bagger]

I hear what you guys are saying ...

But, what's the amount of oil between the lower and upper markings on the dipstick?  1/2 quart, 4 oz ... ??

No, it's not rocket science.  So, you'd expect an easier procedure for some a simple act.

[F6Dave]

Hot fluids expand.  Cooling systems and automatic transmissions have cold and hot level marks for that reason.  I've heard that some H-Ds have 2 engine oil marks as well.

The size and shape of an oil pan probably minimizes the difference in levels from hot to cold, but I'm going to check it out of curiosity.

[six2go #152]

I hear what you guys are saying ...

But, what's the amount of oil between the lower and upper markings on the dipstick?  1/2 quart, 4 oz ... ??

No, it's not rocket science.  So, you'd expect an easier procedure for some a simple act.

I see now what's causing your angst. I'm not sure even the manufacturers know "how much". My V-Strom used the sight glass method to check oil. The oil level was supposed to be "between" the upper & lower lines on the glass. If it was below the lower level, you are supposed to add oil until it's at the upper mark. No mention of how much was required to get the level from the low mark to the full mark. It's not just Honda.

[Bagger]

You got it, six2go ...

Let's say I check the oil and it's just showing on the stick.  Below the lower mark.  I need to add some oil.  But .......... HOW MUCH ?

You can't stand over the bike holding a funnel and pour in "some" oil.  It would be nice if the amount between the lower and upper level was indicated.  Say, 1/2 quart between lower and upper marks.

If this were the case, and we use the above situation ... I could just add half a quart and the level would fall between the lower and upper marks.  Bingo !

[Dave Ritsema]

I'll give you credit, you put alot more effort into checking the level than I do. When I change the oil I put back in what the manual says. (On the last quart I use a measuring cup to get it as close as I can.)

After I do that I just make sure its on the stick and thats pretty much it until the next oil change. I have never had any measurable loss of oil during oil changes. As long as there is no evidence of external leakage or anything that would leave to to believe there is a problem it doesn't get checked again.

[Daniel Meyer]

I think you're WAY over-thinking this...sit on bike, unscrew dipstick, wipe, insert, pull, look, wonder why you ever bother to check the oil on one of these flat-six thingies anyway, screw back in. Ride. It's like a 20 second procedure...except for the ride part...I'll get back with you on that time...if I ever manage to get done with that step.

As far as making it so you could check it on the sidestand? Not gonna happen. All bikes don't lean the same way (by a lot) on the sidestand...depending on how it's loaded, how much junk you have in the saddlebags/trunk, what tires, how the shocks are set/etc.

[Chrisj CMA]

If you just have to check it with the dipstick, do an oil change, insure the reading is as you want it.  Then put it on the side stand and see where it goes....even scribe a mark at the oil level on the stand and there ya go.

[Bagger]

Yeah, I understand.  But, as I said.  I put 4 quarts in the bike along with a new filter.  Ran the bike for 4-5 minutes.  Let it stand for another 4 minutes and checked the oil.

Nothing shows on the dipstick.

That's my issue.  And, this is not the 1st time I've changed the oil in a motorcycle .... this motorcycle included.

Sooooo ..... I know there are 4 quarts in the bike (perhaps a smidge less) ... and, wonder how much more to add?  Do I put in 1/2 quart and repeat the run / drain down cycle again ... and again until I get a reading.  Or, just ride it.

[Bagger]

And, still ... no one's told me the difference between the marks in quanity of oil.  Or, if it only shows on the tip of the dipstick, how much do you add?

BTW, it may be the way I ride, but I always have to add oil between changes.  This is another reason I'd like to know what the marks signify.

[Chrisj CMA]

Yeah, I understand.  But, as I said.  I put 4 quarts in the bike along with a new filter.  Ran the bike for 4-5 minutes.  Let it stand for another 4 minutes and checked the oil.

Nothing shows on the dipstick.

That's my issue.  And, this is not the 1st time I've changed the oil in a motorcycle .... this motorcycle included.

Sooooo ..... I know there are 4 quarts in the bike (perhaps a smidge less) ... and, wonder how much more to add?  Do I put in 1/2 quart and repeat the run / drain down cycle again ... and again until I get a reading.  Or, just ride it.

Not trying to insult your intelligence here, but.....The first few times I checked the oil with the dipstick it was very hard to see where the oil was.  Clean oil can be fairly invisible on a very new dipstick. 

If 4qts is whats called for and 4qts is what you put in.  I wouldn't add more.  Id look for a dipstic solution.  aftermarket adjustable if I had to.  Is the OEM stick adjustable?  If it is, surely you dont think its impossible that its adjusted wrong.......lol  Maybe make sure the bike is really straight up as you are checking.  Its a new bike, if really oil doesn't show on the dipstick while doing everything else right.  Id take it to the dealer, maybe they have the wrong part installed?

[Bagger]

I'm not easily insulted.  But, this isn't my 1st rodeo with changing the oil in the Wing.  And, the New Valk has the same/same dipstick.

I'll have my eyes examined .... after I have my head examined 1st.   

[CajunRider]

Difference between lower and upper mark on the 1800 engine...

About (just as estimate here, don't hold a gun to me about it)....  1/4 quart.

My first oil change, I had a tad less than a one gallon bottle of oil.  When I checked the level, it was BARELY over the lower mark.  So, I added about 1/4 quart.

again... just an estimate and the quart didn't have the oz marking on the side

Checked the level again and I was just BARELY over the high mark. 

Your results may vary, but this should give you an approximate starting point. 

[Bagger]

Difference between lower and upper mark on the 1800 engine...

About (just as estimate here, don't hold a gun to me about it)....  1/4 quart.

My first oil change, I had a tad less than a one gallon bottle of oil.  When I checked the level, it was BARELY over the lower mark.  So, I added about 1/4 quart.

again... just an estimate and the quart didn't have the oz marking on the side

Checked the level again and I was just BARELY over the high mark. 

Your results may vary, but this should give you an approximate starting point. 

Excellent.  That's what I'm looking for.

Now, that said .. why would Honda have a "high" and "low" mark on the dipstick for just 1/4 quart of oil?  That's like 4 oz's.  That's just 8 tablespoons of oil !

Wonder what difference a 1/4 quart would make to the motor.

Odd.

[Bagger]

I guess I'm incorrect. 

1/4 quart is more like a glass of wine ... which I'm partaking presently.

8 oz's is 1/4 quart.   

But, still ... doesn't seem like enough to make a difference.

[CajunRider]

My guess would be that a simple 1/4 quart won't make much of a difference. 

I'm not a mechanic, but I'd imagine the level makes the biggest difference.  High enough level in the sump to to avoid sucking air through the pump... low enough to avoid over-pressuring the crank case while running (of course, the vent would normally allow a small excess to get blown out before causing damage). 

I had a Kawasaki KLR650 for a while.  Some were known to burn oil, some didn't...  Me did.  On a long trip running high speeds, I once ran almost a full quart low without any ill effects.  It never smoked, stumbled, coughed... in fact it always ran GREAT (but vibrated a lot). 

[97Valk_CT_Euless]

Not sure what the fuss is about. Measure it once and you know, if it's a big issue for you. You should try keeping up with it on a Vulcan. And those v-twins DO burn/lose oil. A sight glass that you HAVE to be on can't see while on the bike, the bike has to be held level? holding it level and seeing the sight glass at the same time is impossible. Using a mirror works on some years but not on others. Now THATs a PITA. Honda at least provides a dipstick!
I agree that the reason you can't read it on the stand is that the stands are so inconsistent based on weight, tire size/wear and wear on the stand itself. You might be able to figure it out for your bike and setup but it won't translate to another's reliably.
As far as being able to see the clean oil on the stick, use the paper towel you're wiping it with. Lay the stick on the towel and you wil instantly be able to see where the oil level is regardless of how clean it is.

[Farther]

I'll have my eyes examined .... after I have my head examined 1st.   

Sounds like a plan.

[Bagger]

OK ... I have some information relative to this thread.

I let the bike sit with about 3.5 quarts in the box.  Ran the bike for 5 minutes to fill up the filter and such.  Went back in on a dead cold bike (sitting 3 days) on a totally level garage floor and on the center stand and checked the oil level. 

Nothing shows on the dipstick ... placed in, not screwed in.

I added the rest of the quart (4 total) to the motor and let it sit for another couple hours.  (I was running errands)  And, checked the level the same way as above.

There was oil on the bottom part of the stick ... just covering the pointed part to where the flat started. 

This is dead cold, several hours waiting after running the bike for 5ish minutes and adding 4 full quarts (minus whatever is in the jug clinging to the sides .... figure 3.94 quarts    )

Rode the bike 25 miles 'round the bike, stopped the bike, changed outa my gear ... 5 minutes later, I checked the level.  It was at the top mark on the stick.

Soooo ... that's my answer to the question.  Just barely shy of 4 quarts cold will show on the bottom of the stick (after running and sitting to allow for down draining).  After running the bike and checking it warm, it will be at the top line on the stick.  Difference between the marks ... about 8 ounces.  1/4 quart !

CajunRider gets the yellow jersey ! 

Now, IF I can only remember this.  I'll have t write it down in the tiny manual.   

[six2go #152]

On the center stand? I think you're not getting a true reading that way. Should be on the ground so the rear isn't raised. My V-Strom I mentioned earlier would show no oil in the sight glass if it was on the center stand, drop it down on the tires and oil was at the full mark. It's supposed to be sitting on the ground because not all Valks(or V-Stroms) have a center stand.

[CajunRider]

CajunRider gets the yellow jersey !  

WOOHOO!!!  Not bad for an estimate!  

I was aiming to do the same thing using a quart that has the measurements on the side just to see how close I was.  Thanks for letting me know!!    

On the center stand? I think you're not getting a true reading that way.

I don't remember what the manual said for the V-Strom (had one a few years ago), but the Goldwing manual specifically states to measure while on the center stand.  

Since the Valkyrie doesn't come with one, I would expect Honda either adjusted the dip stick accordingly or the oil level in the 1800 engine just doesn't change much from the 2 inches of drop when not on the center stand.  

[Bagger]

CajunRider gets the yellow jersey !  

WOOHOO!!!  Not bad for an estimate!  

I was aiming to do the same thing using a quart that has the measurements on the side just to see how close I was.  Thanks for letting me know!!    

Since the Valkyrie doesn't come with one, I would expect Honda either adjusted the dip stick accordingly or the oil level in the 1800 engine just doesn't change much from the 2 inches of drop when not on the center stand.  

OK ... OK ... we may be on different pages here.

My original post was about the New Valkyrie ... but, my later posts were about my WING. 

Both, the New Valk and the Wing are the same / same motors and oil stuff.  All that stuff.

Sooooo ... my final post was about the Wing on the center stand.

But, that said ... I would expect that the New Valkyrie will be exactly the same.  Even on the side stand.

I'd just add about 3.75 - 3.96 (figure 4 quarts with filter change) every time you change the oil and not worry about standing the bike up right.

And, use the guidelines I wrote above for the various levels on the dip stick.  1/4 quart ... 8 oz ... between the levels I stated.

[Ken Tarver]

No center stand? Try this, easy to make.

[CajunRider]

OK ... OK ... we may be on different pages here.

Oops... my bad.  I got lost on what particular bike we were talking about.      

But, like you said, same motor and all, so it all works out. 

[shortleg]

     That my be one of the few things my Harley has made simple.
    Oil is measured on side stand and there is a hot and cold mark.
  Way to go Harley!
              Shortleg(Dave)

[imrubicon]

Agreed measure it once and share the info?

If this is the worst thing to happen to you all month its a great month! 

[micfitz]

To be absolutely clear about this, it only takes a dash or two of oil to raise the level on the dip stick from the lower to upper line. So go easy.

[MnM Valk 97]

Warm the bike a few minutes. Pull the dipstick, wipe it clean, and drop it in the hole WITHOUT screwing it in. Stand the bike upright until it is almost willing to balance itself, then put it back on the side stand. Pull the dipstick and take a look. Screw it back in. One person, no problem. Finis.

If you're really shrewd, once you've got the level established, you can etch a mark of the "new normal" while it's on the side stand.

[Bighead]

Some people in MHO way over think things. My standard ‘97 valk has 130k miles and never used a drop of oil. My ‘16 wing the same. So much so I may check it once between changes.
The OP (this thread is 6 yrs old) said his bike used oil in between changes. That would concern me way more than a low/high mark on the dipstick. Just sayin.

[Jess from VA]

After riding a Hog for 18 years, I checked my (new-used) Valk oil routinely.

After a while, I felt stupid.   The only thing I look at anymore is the color. 

[Robert]

I usually use 4.5 quarts and it works out good.

[woofred1832]

                                    I use synthetic oil so I set the Trip B and wait till it hits 6000 or so, color is a good clue also, or just before  winter if it is close to the 6000 mile mark