Rumble, grind, thunkety reverberation at almost stopped

[Earl43P]

99 IS, darksided:

First time it happened, I thought I ran over a chunk of something and the rear tire brought it up under the fender then it dislodged from the tire (thunkety) and rattled to the ground (reverberation as it bounced from the tire to the swingarm). I was coming to a stop at a light, to make a left turn, clutch held disengaged as I click down through the gears, pausing in second. Might have let clutch out, but it doesn't seem relevant. The other times it recurred, the clutch was disengaged. I made sure. Happened 3 more times.

I was 700+ miles into a 900+ mile two-day ride to SW Pa, virtually all of it on superslab. Fast. 64/295/95/495/270/70/68/reverse.

First symptom, early in the trip it felt rumbly in the rear whenever I was tracking in the right lane, right tire track. Up in Va/MD/Pa that lane seems to rut into U-rut tracks. As I'd roll the right side of the car tire up onto the right/right edge of the rut, it'd rumble. The slightest push of left handlebar would make it quit instantly, but I could get it back, as described. Became easier to make it rumble as the miles ticked on. Something was wearing, I could feel it getting worse. I also noticed that in fast right banks it picked up a sashay, call it a slow weave. Not present in left sweepers (all high speed, think I68, mountains), 75+ mph most of both days.

So, obviously, I'll be doing some disassembly.
I expect to find a rear wheel bearing issue.

Doesn't account for the thunkety rattle, which quite frankly really did feel like something rattling between a hard spot and the swingarm. Makes me think drive train "slop". Will know more after disassembly, which I'd like to defer till next weekend-ish.  This is where y'all come in.

I want to lay in parts to minimize downtime. I can't have it on the jack for very long in other words. I lost my workshop last April to a tornado and haven't rebuilt.

I figure I should have a spare pinion cup and ? what else on hand, knowing I'll continue to add many high mile weekend trips. Bike has 46,000 miles today.

I bought it with 22,000 in July 2013.
I car-tired the rear last Nov. No idea what that mileage was, but I took off a worn out Cobra which was newish at 22,000 when I bought it. There's probably over 10,000 miles on the car tire.

I'm going to review that Rear Wheel Bearing Mod, that has you double-roller the one side, IIRC.
If y'all have any other suggestions, I'm really open to what you veterans might recommend parts-wise.

It's NOT my DD, but it will need to be in a month or so. The Oldwing needs fork seal love so I can get my front brakes effectivity back.

[gordonv]

It looks like you are going in the right direction.

As for parts, I always give my local Honda dealer a chance to match or come close to the online prices I can get. Remembering that the cost of local tax, or online shipping, is close to each other. The local dealer can usually get the parts to their ship in a few days. So do you really need to buy a bunch of parts before you know what you need?

I'm a pack rat, and yes, that is exactly what I do, but when I can get them cheap.

[Michvalk]

Likely a rear bearing....But could be a universal joint. Almost have to tear down and have a look

[Earl43P]

Thank you for the replies confirming my thoughts. /fingers crossed/

I do use Turner's Honda dealership for many parts (Hi Jay, Hi Tim!). I'll hit them up for the parts, but I'm pretty sure I will be doing the bearing mod, since all it requires is some machining of that spacer. I'll get a new spacer just for the mod, so it can be reversed if I encounter a problem. First Flight Machine Shop is right around the corner from me and they've done quality work for me in the past.

I hope a bad bearing is all that I find in there. It was a pretty dramatic series of sounds / vibes, resonating from the swingarm. I could really feel it in the seat of my pants and soles of my shoes. Swingarm is quite the "tuning fork" for transmitting vibes.

[Pete]

Just completed a repair on  1999 IS that had slow speed left turn noise/clunk.
I expected wheel bearings or pinion cup.

Nope!  Bearings fine.  Pinion cup also fine and well lubed

Drive splines worn and dry. replaced rear end and rear wheel drive flange.

Good luck.

[Ricky-D]

Without trying to hijack this thread

I would say it's the universal joint

you should be looking at!

***

[Earl43P]

Ricky-D, it's not a threadjack when you express your opinion on topic.

Drive spline, rear end, drive flange.....sounds expensive.

I suppose it'll have to sit on the jack for a while after all. 
The possible parts list is getting longer than I expected.

[Rio Wil]

So you bought it in July and 4 months later you put on a new rear tire......mileage was maybe 26K. (just guessing)   At that time what was the condition of the drive flange/final drive splines.....still well greased or infected with "red rust".  Also, was the lube checked in the drive shaft/pinion cup at that tire change.........if not, then you have 46K on perhaps a dry worn ds/pc .....both parts are available for less than 100 bucks most anywhere on line.

[gordonv]

I didn't think it was the u-joint, because of how long the noise has been there for. Most that I've heard/read have reported failure in a very short time after starting to hear the joint going.

However, the rest, bearings/flanges, seem to be able to go a very long time, and just continue to go more and more damage.

We shall all await the outcome of the disassembly and his report.

[Earl43P]

I am really anxious to figure this out too, trust me.
I put about 8-10,000 miles on it before replacing the rear tire. Wore out the Cobra.
I found old grease, no visible wear then.
I used the Honda moly paste grease, same as the Oldwing. It goes through a lot of tires, so I am well familiar with what needs done. The splines were good and the driveshaft cup was cleaned up and repacked.
There is probably 10-14,000 miles on the car tire since then. ( bought at 22k, wore out a Cobra, put on a CT, now at 46,000).

Last evening, I got it up on the jack and removed the saddlebags.

Grasping the tire,  I can feel play in the left bearing. Enough to lightly thunk.
You can see a gap open and close. I took video,

	powered by Aeva

http://s825.photobucket.com/user/Earl43P/media/WP_20141014_010_zpsrp4fcrfa.mp4.html?o=0
I may get it disassembled tonight.

[Big Rig]

Good luck,

I am having a similar issue with my 99 IS....63k on it....I also think I need to replace a throw out bearing in the trans...making some noise there, and when I engage the clutch it quiets down...

[Pete]

In your case it sure looks like a  bad bearing.
The case I cited earlier the wheel would not do that but the drive flange would and was the source of the sound.

Good luck with the fix.

[Michvalk]

Good luck,

I am having a similar issue with my 99 IS....63k on it....I also think I need to replace a throw out bearing in the trans...making some noise there, and when I engage the clutch it quiets down...

There is not a "throwout bearing" persay in the motor. Valkyries do make a little bit of noise with the clutch out, and the tranny in neutral, that goes away when you pull the clutch in. That is normal

[Big Rig]

Thanks...after hearing the clunking noise and then trouble shooting, it can lead you in the wrong direction. So i come here with questions...thanks for the insight and I will remember that after I replace the bearings.

So that leads to this question, who is using what for the rear bearing replacement?

[Ricky-D]

OEM is always the best and smartest choice.

***

[quexpress]

Thanks...after hearing the clunking noise and then trouble shooting, it can lead you in the wrong direction. So i come here with questions...thanks for the insight and I will remember that after I replace the bearings.

So that leads to this question, who is using what for the rear bearing replacement?

Honda does not fabricate bearings. They are purchased and then resold.  
See JeffK's Generic Parts list for the required part numbers, etc.
http://www.jkozloski.com/generic_parts.htm
Many of us have been using these bearings since the very beginning (1997 until now).  

[Jess from VA]

No matter the maker, you want Tier One quality bearings.  OE are Tier One.

All Balls are Chinese.

The four digit valk wheel bearings are used commonly all over, any bearing distributor should have them.

[Earl43P]

Ok, made some great progress with complete dis-assembly.

All splines cleaned up and look good. The ONLY ones I neglected were the Universal Joint(s), although they got ragged out and fresh Moly60 pasted with the boot still 'on' and in my way - what a PITA. I did that without snaking the U-Joint out.

The ONLY two things I found bad were the wheel bearing (will be replacing both sides) and these Dampers looked WAY worn out. I'll get a set of them and new O-rings and the bearings. Now all I need is a tech assist with the actual bearing replacement job, about which - I will be searching this forum.  If anyone wants to find me a link for that job, with pictures......feel free!

http://s825.photobucket.com/user/Earl43P/media/WP_20141018_050_zpsgufaszod.mp4.html
http://s825.photobucket.com/user/Earl43P/media/WP_20141018_028_zpsf3db2092.jpg.html
http://s825.photobucket.com/user/Earl43P/media/WP_20141018_033_zpse44f2acb.jpg.html
http://s825.photobucket.com/user/Earl43P/media/WP_20141018_038_zpsba2a323f.jpg.html
http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz178/Earl43P/WP_20141018_071_zps70803508.jpg?1413742421489&1413742422955

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

For the dampers get the ones for an interstate or certain years where they come complete with the metal inserts already installed.

[Skinhead]

I'd suggest the double row bearing mod, it requires a cut down axle spacer (I believe final dimension is 0.625", but better check that.  Grumpy used to make the spacers (or cut them)).

Drive splines are still serviceable but show significant wear.  Dampers are definitely toast.

Just my $0.02.

[Big Rig]

It was the pumkin side bearing. Inner shoulder of outer race was all but gone...makes it tough to pull it out. Had to take it to the stealer so they could cut it out. ~ $100 for the effort. They did press in the new bearings for me while there. The other bearing looked almost new...replaced both and she rides like she is brand new...I guess that "loose rear end" feeling was the bearing going away.

Thanks for your insight guys. This is the most knowledge site...especially when it comes to oil and tires!  ha ha ha

Going Dark side in the spring...

[Skinhead]

It was the pumkin side bearing. Inner shoulder of outer race was all but gone...makes it tough to pull it out.

That's the first time I've heard of the double row bearing fail. 

[HayHauler]

It was the pumkin side bearing. Inner shoulder of outer race was all but gone...makes it tough to pull it out.

That's the first time I've heard of the double row bearing fail. 

Same here Joe.  Never heard of THAT bearing coming apart.

Hay   
Jimmyt

[Earl43P]

Got all my new parts in.
3 new O-rings are installed, the drive shaft couplings greased, drive shaft back in and boot installed.

The new Dampers, 06410-MBH-000, are so much tighter that the old ones.
Paul, at Norfolk Honda, tells me they only sell Dampers for the Valkyrie WITH the bushings already in. He looked up all three models and the PN is the same.

Monday, my new Yokohama AVID ENVigor 195/55-16 should be here. I took that day off work just so I can get this tire mounted and put the Gurl back together.

I did end up replacing the LEFT Rear wheel bearing, but I did not upgrade to the 5204, I bought a new 6204UU off the Honda shelf.  6204's are very easy to find, whereas I had to ORDER a 5204 because none of the local AP stores had one in stock and I was NOT going to use one from Tractor Supply (if they even HAD one, which I didn't check).

[John Schmidt]

He looked up all three models and the PN is the same.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He's only partially right so for future reference, here's the real story. The I/S version is the p/n you listed, and comes complete with the metal inserts in place. ~$32.70/set from Service Honda.
The C/T and Std. version p/n is the same as you listed, BUT... is only the rubber portion, doesn't come with the metal inserts in place. You have to order them separate and are a PITA to install. Total cost ~$43. Next time you talk to your parts guy at the stealer, educate him.   

[Willow]

He looked up all three models and the PN is the same.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He's only partially right so for future reference, here's the real story. The I/S version is the p/n you listed, and comes complete with the metal inserts in place. ~$32.70/set from Service Honda.
The C/T and Std. version p/n is the same as you listed, BUT... is only the rubber portion, doesn't come with the metal inserts in place. You have to order them separate and are a PITA to install. Total cost ~$43. Next time you talk to your parts guy at the stealer, educate him.   

John, I believe the later models, anything past 1998, all used the dampers with the metal inserts in place.  They are interchangeable.  If someone orders a set they owe it to themselves to order the later model set regardless of the year model of their Valkyrie.

[Earl43P]

He looked up all three models and the PN is the same.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He's only partially right so for future reference, here's the real story. The I/S version is the p/n you listed, and comes complete with the metal inserts in place. ~$32.70/set from Service Honda.
The C/T and Std. version p/n is the same as you listed, BUT... is only the rubber portion, doesn't come with the metal inserts in place. You have to order them separate and are a PITA to install. Total cost ~$43. Next time you talk to your parts guy at the stealer, educate him.   

I don't doubt you.
I suspect he looked at all 3 models for 1999, which showed this part number for all 3 models. No clue what the earlier years list. Sorry for the confusion.

[indybobm]

It was the pumkin side bearing. Inner shoulder of outer race was all but gone...makes it tough to pull it out.

That's the first time I've heard of the double row bearing fail. 

Wouldn't the pumpkin side bearing be the 'Right' side bearing?

The double row bearing would be the 'Left' bearing if it had the mod done.

[Skinhead]

If The Mod IsDone,  TheyAreBoth Double

[John Schmidt]

He looked up all three models and the PN is the same.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He's only partially right so for future reference, here's the real story. The I/S version is the p/n you listed, and comes complete with the metal inserts in place. ~$32.70/set from Service Honda.
The C/T and Std. version p/n is the same as you listed, BUT... is only the rubber portion, doesn't come with the metal inserts in place. You have to order them separate and are a PITA to install. Total cost ~$43. Next time you talk to your parts guy at the stealer, educate him.   

I don't doubt you.
I suspect he looked at all 3 models for 1999, which showed this part number for all 3 models. No clue what the earlier years list. Sorry for the confusion.

Still the same scenario. The 3 models for '99 will show exactly what I told you.....I/S has one p/n for a complete set, the other two models have two p/n's for a complete set. That's the first year of the I/S so the early years will be a two p/n application for a complete set. From '99 forward, you can order the I/S version as I stated, or the two p/n setup for the other two models. Depends on if you want to spend the extra $$ along with the aggravation of putting them together.

[Earl43P]

Well, I finished it all up last evening, 3.5 hours (exactly) from the time UPS dropped off the new tire.

Took it off the jack and everything, but it was dark and wet, so I had an adult beverage instead of a test ride.  Feel free to chuckle when I tell you that I left the allen wrench in the axle and didn't find it until I dropped it off the jack and couldn't feel any shocks action.  It was jammed up on the exhaust pretty good! 

Rode it today and found that this shorter tire makes the redline arrive quite quickly. Its rounder edges also make it lean nice in the curves. I didn't try to scrape any pegs. I put about 30 miles on it, but will start commuting with it tomorrow (130mi/day).

It shows an indicated 80 mph at 4000 rpm, but it's always been about 5 mph slower than indicated with the stock size front tire, compared to a GPS.

I sure did miss her while she was broken.

I also picked up a 93 Goldwing to "replace" the 82 GL1100. The 93 needs some love though.